“The only safe way to move troops and diplomats” along the deadliest stretch of road in Iraq “is in convoys of custom-made $275,000 armored buses,” Defense News says.
The buses, called “Rhinos,” look like something out of The Road Warrior… They roll in the dead of night, escorted by armored Humvees, with the road sealed to all other traffic and AH-64 Apache gunships loitering overhead.
The Rhino is all flat slabs of gray or off-white steel (there are two models in service) with passenger windows angled in streamlined fashion, like an old-time Greyhound bus, as the only concession to aesthetics.
The beauty of these buses is not in their graceful lines they are as graceful as a refrigerator. Rather, their attractiveness lies in the armor, which covers the sides, tops and bottoms of the five buses in service in Baghdad. Twenty-six passengers ride in relative comfort on functional if not stylish vinyl seats.
The buses, each weighing about 13 tons and featuring bullet-resistant glass and 12 gun ports along with all that armor, are manufactured by Weston, Fla.-based Labock Technologies at the companys plant in Ashdod, Israel.
Until three months ago, the only safe ways to move diplomats, contractors and others working for the government between the airport and the Green Zone [along “Route Irish” aka “the Road of Death” — ed.] was by Rhino or helicopter. Now, the helicopters are being used elsewhere, and the only remaining safe ride is on the Rhino…
About three months ago, a Rhino took a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade. “Nobody was hurt except for some minor bumps and bruises,” said Army Maj. Sharon Smith, of the Joint Area Support Group, who books the Rhino convoys.
Rhino maker Labock also claims that “it was the vehicle of choice employed by the military to provide safe ground transportation for the U.S. Secretary of Defense, Mr. Donald Rumsfeld, and General Dick Myers and his staff while they were visiting Baghdad in may 2004. It is also the vehicle of choice to drive Saddam Hussein and other V.I.P. prisoners between their confinements and the Iraqi Tribunal.“
THERE’S MORE: For first-hand accounts of folks who’ve ridden the bus on the Route of Death, check out the comments section.
{ 78 comments… read them below or add one }
Inspired no doubt by the Clint Eastwood movie “The Gauntlet” – which seems a pretty apt comparison.
I was thinking more along the lines of “Mad Max 2″
Hey, if it works then use it. too bad all our personel carriers are not built along the same lines.
So why is this bus better than an Armored Personal Carrier, and yes it does remind me of the movie “The Guantlet”
This bus could never be able to handle the same sort of punishment as proper APCs, for instance both in all-terrain capability as well as in the ability to withstand mines and IEDs.
For example, despite the article gushing that “the only remaining safe ride is on the Rhino”, Blackwater contractors travel that road daily in South African-made Mamba APCs, and have yet to suffer a fatality for that route.
It’s also worth taking a look at the RG-31s in use in some US Army engineer units.
That said, these are awesome buses, and they’ll undoubtedly see more widespread use.
Does it smell like Body Odor and Curry, like all the other busses in country.
Yes, but does it come with a wok and a mini bar? You never know when you’ll need some chinese and chablis under fire.
We used to call these things the RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) Magnets. Luckily the last 2 times i travelled to and from Baghdad I used blackhawks to get the the Green Zone.
These Rhinos are slow, and have lots of problems. The A/C was out in them, which not only was uncomfortable for passengers wearing 26 lbs of “battle rattle” in 130 degree tems , but a block of ice was needed to keep the transmission cool.
Nothing special here.. BA (Mr. T) used to weld up the same thing each episode of A-TEAM .
Looks more like the RV from Stripes.
“War Bus” is another good B movie. It’s gotta be the 26 person capacity, I would think.
This “moving diplomats, contractors and others” part of this article bothers me. What about our troops? They’re the ones that need protection.
Yup, it’s good to see that things are going well in Iraq, just like the Bush administration keeps telling us. I feel MUCH better about this stupid war, knowing that we need fully armored buses to ferry people around Baghdad.
What happened to that “They’ll throw rose petals in our path” prediction?
I was in Iraq when this bus got attacked, I went inside of it and nothing penetrated the glass the vehicle that was in front of it was not so lucky
Damn, I am definately getting rid of my Hummer and getting one of these. Will be great for the commute to and from Greenwich.
It probably wasnt necessarily under Saddam’s Regime because he just killed anyone who opposed him…and their families…and pretty much anyone who looked at him wrong. I’m not saying whether or not we should be there, but the American troops have their hands tied. They have to not tick off all the people who get offended at pretty much everything. They have to kill the one or more idiots out of a crowd of thousands who is getting ready to fire an RPG at them without putting a scratch on the innocents (or else). They have to put up with idiotic armchair politicians who think they are more knowledgeable than everyone else. We are the only country in the world who is expected to rebuild a country after a war with its own money. Why can’t they rebuild their own country with their oil money and pay us for helping them keep the peace? I have no patience for a bunch of morons who bitch about stuff when they have no clue what they are talking about. I will not respond to any moronic chatter that follows my post nor will even read them. Your opinions are worthless.
I’m proud of America, but not this Israeli bus.
Should we have gone into Iraq? NO. Should we be there now? YES. We are responsible for fixing what we help to destroy. And the Iraqis are, for the most part, glad to have us there. Most of the insurgents are not even Iraqi. As for a bus made in Israel… was that a smart decision considering Israel’s popularity in Islamic nations? The bus is a good thing but they should get more armored Hummers out there to protect our troops. There is a really easy way to fix the road problem. They purchase these tiny solar operated cameras that transmit the signal wirelessly to a receiver. If they line the road with them they will know where the bombs are and can destroy them before they kill any more people. I can purchase 10 of those cameras with a receiver for about $150 and they transmit right into my computer. So why doesn’t the military use electronic surveilance to watch for insurgents on the road?
First of any form of transportation that protects the occupants and adds to the availabiity of safe transportation is a good thing. Second the armored HUMMWV’s are being shipped as fast as they can be assembeled. What is required here is the old vehicle to be shipped to the plant for the retro fit of the armor, fitted and then shipped overseas. Currently the plants doing this work are conducting 24/7 operations to accomplish this as fast as possible. Third wethere or not we should have gone to Iraq, or should still be there are irrelivant since we are there now. That being said protecting the troops with any bus, truck, APC, helicopter, or tactic is a top priority. And what makes people think that electronic surveliance is not being used on the routes? We have the technology and large amounts of money are being spent to do everything possible including purchasing new buses.
I’ve ridden in this bus a bunch of times. Given its size it is surprising how few people it seats. The bus is actually spacious and comfortable, but at least the ones I was on were extremely hot. People put big blocks of ice next to the drivers’ seat for cooling but it didn’t help that much. Main thing is that it was a marked improvement over the old unarmored buses and is often the safest way to accomplish the trip, so that’s all you really need to know.
I wrote, but deleted, a whole bunch of stuff about the administration and its choices. Didn’t make sense in the context of an article about armored buses. I will say that it is embarassing that the United States cannot secure a what– 9 km? — stretch of highway between two of our most significant strategic locations. How we can maintain that we have enough troops and at the same time determine that we cannot spare the resources to make Route Irish secure is beyond me.
We are there whether any of us like it or not. The bus….a good idea…simply because it protects people. Who cares whether or not we should be there….we are. Nobody here can change that.
No matter how you look at it WE ARE THERE! And we will be there for a long time to come. The U.S. Forces are doing a great job over there even though very few media personal report it. They seem to like to report on the few negative things that happen over there. The busses are great if they save the lives of our Troops, no matter where they are built. AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
I feel the bus is a good idea, however I’m disappointed in it’s limited useage and deployment to only high-priority personnel (diplomats/contractors). As a soldier re-deploying to Baghdad in November, I’d like to know that the military is putting their money to better use protecting me and my fellow soldiers than worrying about a few high-dollar employees whom I feel shouldn’t be “touring” Iraq in the first place. I wish they would spend their time & money building up-armoured humvees for the troops instead of tour buses. Or simply making sure that the troops who ARE currently deployed have adequate equipment/supplies that they SHOULD have as soldiers in our great US Army.
SPC Black, 18th ABN Corps Artillery, Ft. Bragg, NC
This reminds me of the armoured bus in ‘Dawn of the Dead’.
A humvee was created to be simply transportation not an armoured vehicle, if you want armour get armour. trying to make a cow a race horse just won’t do it. I admit it’s better than nothing, but designing a proper armoured transport would go a long way in the safety of our troops. I would vote for the money. how about you? Good luck guys hope to see you all soon Semper Fi.
the only problem with the rhino is you cant get the windows down for drive through takeaway.
This article is irresponsible journalism! Anything else you can tell the insurgents? This is downright unamerican. Wake up!
Why are APC’s not as strong? These busses are designed for three thigns:
1) Protection from IED’s
2) Protection from small arms fire
3) Protection from RPG’s.
An APC is designed to be agile, and protected from other various threats. Why not make our APC’s like a race car? Really fast? Because a Race car is built for one thing, just like these busses. APC’s are built for many roles, and as a result are not the best at any one, but good across the board. I’ll bet one of these busses might have a bad day against a T-90 tank. The good news is that with newer light materials and such, our “APCs” are getting stronger. Besides, anyone who has ridden in a M113( and its variants), M2 Bradley would probably rather ride in these busses. These busses are also more efficient – more people per bus, less vehicles per convoy, more fuel efficient and faster.
I think that the bus is a show of an attempt to give a solution to a greater problem, IED’s. The fact is only armor can help minimize the effects of a strategically placed IED. This type of guerilla warfare has always worked in the users favor throughout history. The thing that will save lives in the end is deminishing the enemy’s “will to fight” It took not one but two nuclear bombs to do that to a defiant Japan. What will it take in Iraq? I do know this Iraqis are tired of having foriegners come in their country with explosive belts to kill what is now mostly civilians. This could be the solution. Increase the will to fight by non-insurgents, and what better way to get them to the battlefield, than in a Rhino :). P.S. anyone that has ever used an APC knows you drive it half as far as you push it, since it was designed by the lowest bidder.
If it works use it until we can get something better. Who cares where it was made.
Things have improved so much since I left in early 2004. When I deployed I was given a flac vest, drove in a soft top HUMMWV, 2 vehicle convoy with 4 personnel, no Comms, very little support from our supported division.
Everyone is doing the best they can, if there was a better plan, or equipment our troop would have it. We are fighting a faceless war, no true enemy, just a fanatic in a crowd. I didnt want to be there, and I let my command know (I stayed and served my full term, no PCS, and no school breaks) , however I was a soldier, and it was war, I was prepared to die for my country and its belief, and during a mission, or an order, I gave my all. And please understand, I mean no disrespect to any of you, we joined a military service, given most of the facts (a few left out by some recruiters), we know what we signed up for.
So with that said,
If you are not a member of the service, if you are not deployed or a family member of one of our great men and women that are serving us with such great pride, that are honored by the title Veteran, stop complaining. Many of our service members read this site, read what people are saying about them and this war (when you criticize the war, you criticize the war fighter) and you as a whole are directly responsible for the morale of our troops.
Everyone is entitled to express their opinion, instead of complaining to our troops, write your congress person, or someone that can do something. Dont write our troops to complain.
A round of applause for the DOD, for their efforts to try and fix a problem. What have you done for our Troops? Go Rhino
these busses sound like a good idea. U.S. contractors need a safe ride to get around in, why not let them have the busses. about the APC’s, you people are STUPID! i can out class the APC in everything except weight with my STRYKER. im here serving in Mosul right now and the ieds we get around this part of the country are no joke. and yet the stryker is the king of the roads. these ieds placers are becoming more and more better at hiding these bombs along the road. as an engineer, my main mission is to go out and find these ieds along the streets of mosul. i know how hard it is to find them, but they are there. you people need to realize, you cant find them all. this is war and shit does happen. as far as that stretch of road in baghdad, “The Road of Death”, our guys down there probably cant fully secure it because the are out LOOKING FOR THE ENEYMY. if all our guys did was sit out there and secure that 9km of road, the enemy would just simply pack up their stuff and place ieds somewhere else. theres no one true answer to the call of ieds. you have to adapt to the changing environment, just like the enemy does. our guys all in iraq are doing their hardest to protect you bitching selfish people back home. im glad im risking my life to protect your sorry asses. im glad so many people gave their lives to give you that freedom. say we didnt kick sadaams ass when we did and say he eventually attacked us, it would be these anti bush retards calling for his head because he let another sept. 11 happen. if would be those same people that are now bitching about us being over here, who would be bitching about us NOT doing something sooner. you people are stupid. i support all that we are doing and support the guys much higher up than me that know better than me the needs of this country. people that YOU helped to elect. AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!
I am also concerned that this is being used for diplomats,etc. what about our troops? The troops are the ones on the line, they need the best up-to-date equipment.
The rino is a marvelous acheivement for what it is. I low-Tech, improvised solution to a DEADLY, and very real problem. I’m not a soldier, so I dont profess to know everything about combat and the general hell that is war. But I do understand this. Our soldiers NEED this kind of equipment. Low-tech, EFFECTIVE, solutions. To DEADLY problems. That has meant the difference in conflicts throughout history. He who improvises and adapts quickly, and more consistently, has the best chance at victory. Our men & women over there are doing the best they can, in a very hostile environment. As for those of you who think that we should not be over there. Well… people are entitled to their opinion. However, when people jump to immediate conclusions and make hasty judgements based on raw emotions, and imcomplete/biased facts… that scares me. God bless those who choose to fight and die for our freedom. And yes, the very freedom that allows people to disrespect those who fight and die for them.
Those who say we should “live and let live” and allow countries like N. Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan do whatever they want… remember the last time America and her leaders chose that philosophy. 1935-1941. To be exact, December 7th, 1941. It is EXACTLY that attitude that allowed Japan and Germany to build their forces and launch what would later be known as World War II. And had we not been 9/11nd back in December of 1942… well we all know, or should know, the rest of that story. God bless America. And God bless the Rhino. It represents all that is good about America. Though it be flawed, it rolls up its sleeves, gets the job done, and at the end of the day, protects what is just and right.
“Rhinos” are the continuing steps the terrosists
force America and all free people into–to protect ourselfs…to the time they force us to hide in our caves.
FrancescoCC
Okay, let me clear some things up for everyone who hasn’t been deployed to Baghdad and had the opportunity to ride a Rhino. IT IS RIDDEN BY EVERYONE, EVERY DAY! Service members and civilians alike ride the Rhino on a daily basis. Service members of all branches and all ranks, contractors, and/or DoD civilians are all on the bus together on any given trip. In short, anyone who needs to use the Rhino can use it to travel. It is safe, IED-tested, and no one has died while riding in one, to my knowledge. Considering the number of US citizens (service member and civilian) who have ridden in one, I say that’s a great safety record. Better than the HUMVEE’s and 113′s running around here. I can’t go into specifics about route security during the trip, but let’s just say I felt really secure along the entire route every time I have travelled in one.
So don’t worry, it’s not some exclusive benefit for a select few. It’s here for EVERYONE who has a need for it, along that specific route. Given the unique nature of deployment to Baghdad, it is a necessary and welcome addition to our transportation fleet.
As a veteran of the USMC I hurt everytime I hear about a death or injury to one of our troops, especially fellow Marines. As previous posters have noted, we’re in Iraq; shut the hell up about getting out and support the troops and the mission so we can get them home quickly and safely. Let’s get them the equipment that will allow them to do their jobs safely and allow them to return home in one piece. Armored buses, HMMWVs, APCs; whatever it takes to get our folks safely around Iraq/Afghanistan.
The RHINO, List price:$275.00.00, I.E.D. tested, seats 26 grown adults( soldiers and bleeding hearts alike), withstands the force of rpg’s and features bullit proof glass, is equipped with multiple gun ports, and 5/8ths in. thick armoured plating, sports saftey features surpassing even VOLVO’s highest saftey ratings (test proven by extremist in the real live combat zones of IRAQ)(test records reveal no loss of life while seated within the comfort zone TM of the RHINO TM), comes in your choice of colors: desert tan or sierra brown, sorry, A/C not an option. Available NOW at combat surviability dealership, just outside the greenzone nearest you.
$275,00.oo U.S. dollars, expensive…..
275,000 U.S. Soldiers kept alive and .oo dead, priceless!
it is just like the “pull the troops out now” crowd would use a RHINO forum to bitch about the war than discuss the merits of the bus. i ran Route Irish in a civilian fuel tanker unarmored anything is better than nothing. finish what ya started (remember Vietnam)kick ass take names let God sort em out
What if this bus was shoot at the tires or passed by a mine wouldnt it fall on its back .. then the passengers would stay there in it or else they will be killed ….
IN regards to Hans Blix message;
love it or leave it!
If YOUR in my beloved country be it it has all the problems it does have at least its free! can you say the same freedom in your home of Germany, can you say the same for employment options? how about government? Evils is in the whole world. ITS not about just the “Marines” he was reffering to, he was referring to the US armed forces And which he was a part of the Marines! Glad your not in my Military fighting wars… but be glad someone like him is! Care for your fellow man! Think about the vietnamese the koreans the germans the jews the russians the whole nine yards that fight in “yours and mine” armed forces to protect your sorry ass speaches…
Oh and to keep to the topic at hand, go Rhino’s! keep our troops safe, dont forget the block of ice for the tranny men! Do what ya gotta do to keep America safe!
Where is this jerkoff who calls himself Hans Blix heading when he says “I’m out of here”? A better country? The recruiting office? To get some more dope? What a total screwbhall. Do everyone a favor;
Go back into your cave and seal the entrance. Better yet, let me know where it’s at and I’ll seal it for you.
First, ArmyMom I hope your son comes back from Iraq untouched, which is my wish for all my fellow servicemembers in Iraq. But you need to think about what you are saying. I currently am in a commissioning program along with about 40 other Marines, 80 Soldiers, 50 Airmen, and 50 Sailors, and all of us know that we will be in Iraq after we graduate, EVERYONE. From the incoming freshmen that graduates 4 years from now to the 5th year senior that will graduate in August. You need to realize that Iraq is not just the the 43rd President’s problem, the Middle East has been and will be a concern in the future, you need to think about that when in a knee jerk reaction to your son being deployed, you elect some liberal “I will not send American Boys to do the job Iraqi boys should be doing for themselves” President that will end up instituting a draft because they will not understand a damn thing that is going on. If you will recall from Vietnam, WWII, and others a President hell bent on peace is much more dangerous than a President that understands when you need to go to war. As for the comment made by Max about how it hurts more when he hears about a Marine, you’ll never understand the brotherhood if you’re not a part of it, the Marine Corps is a small tight group. Here is a quick fact for all you that would like to complain that America should go back to isolationism as was advocated by George Washington, remember that Thomas Jefferson sent Marines and Sailors to Tripoli in order to end terrorism that the Europeans were more than happy to deal with by giving the terrorists money to bother someone else, it was from this extremely important and eerily similar war that we set the precedent of not standing idly by while terrorists threaten us. It was from this war that we got the Marine Corps Officer’s Sword and the words “to the shores of Tripoli” in the Marine Corps Hymn. If you would like to read more about it go here http://www.techcentralstation.com/050605B.html
So for everyone that is against the war, such is your right and if that is your conviction fight for your conviction with everything you have, just as I and all my fellow servicemembers will fight with everything we have to keep this country safe, because without safety you will never truly be free. I see Iraq and Afghanistan as just the most current in a long line of American efforts to secure peace and security for ourselves, our allies, and even our future enemies. All I ask is that before you say that you proudly proclaim that you shouldn’t be blamed because you voted Kerry and before that you voted Gore, THINK! Actually think about why you are against the war and why you are against Bush, then make a well thought out and defensable argument about your beliefs. I am not some right wing warmonger that thinks that all liberals should be strapped to munitions and sent to join their “friends” I have many friends who are liberal and against the war, I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion with this message, only trying to educate, because the saddest thing in America is that we do not remember the history of how we got where we are today. Remember this, either you are the most powerful nation in the world or you are not, and I would much rather have the great responsibility that comes with great power, than be powerless. If you really want to complain, I will give you something to complain about, look at how much money the Army wastes on recruiting compared to the amount the Marine Corps gets for their entire budget, then you will have an idea of how things really work in the DoD. Godspeed to all those in harm’s way!
SEMPER FI!
MIDN 1/C Davis
NROTC TAMU
Anything that helps protect or soldiers (o matter where) is a good thing. As for the folks that are using this bulletin board to voice their political opposition to the war, they should be glad that they have that option. As a retired military member, I believe we should be there, and need to stay the course. The same types of attacks occurred in Germany for over two years after the formal end of WWII. The difference today, is that we see and hear every night (and morning) these incidents on TV and radio. In WW II the public was distanced from the violence. Vietnam brought it into our living rooms, and the American public could not stomach it. The results were a lack of commitment to the process, an untimely retreat, and the abandonment of an ally. We need to stay the course and provide a safe country for the Iraq people to inherit. We need to have enough troops and firepower to make the insurgents forget about even thinking about raising a weapon. Unfortunately, the most radical will only stop when we remove their weapons from their cold dead hand (or whats left of their hands). If a $275,000 bus helps toward that goal, its a good thing. I support the path our commander-in-chief has taken, and believe we should remain until we obtain the final objective, a FREE AND SECURE IRAQ! A free and democratic county in the Mid-East just might help stabilize the entire region.
IF A ROAD SIDE BOMB CAN WIPE OUT A BRADLEY OR AN
STRYKER VEHICAL THINK OF WHAT IT CAN DO TO ONE OF THESE TIN CANS ON WHEELS..
THIS MISSILE MAGNET IS DOING JUST WHAT THE TERRORISTS WANT; THAT IS FOR OUR PEOPLE TO HIDE INSTEAD OF HUNTING THEM DOWN;AND ELIMINATING THEM. WE SEEMED TO HAVE LEARNED NOTHING FROM KOREA AND VIETNAM,A LOT OF THOSE “FRIENDLY CIVILIANS” THAT WE’RE NOT SUPPOSE TO INJURE ARE WAVING WITH ONE HAND TOSSING BOMBS WITH THE OTHER. “THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS RULES IN WAR”
I’ll probably be in Iraq soon, the Rhinos serves a purpose, its not the only vehicle that has served its purpose the Striker is another vehicle. APCs & Humve should be relevated to Pearl Harbor. Are troops need Armor a new vehicle that has the speed & armor of a M1A2 Abrahams, quit stopping all the side talk. We should be using oil/fuel from IRAQ to supply such vehicles, heck build a M1A3 heavy personel carrier with weapons for defense like the bus. Metal Detecting front end heavily armored vehicles with long range would solve this issue, radar… use it
Will the liberals ever get smarter? What the hell does an armored bus have to do with the political reasons we are involved in Iraq?
That bus took a VBIED (car bomb) last November. Everyone was fine. Onboard were soldiers and civilians alike. Only the most senior of diplomats (my boss for instance)get helo rides on a regular basis to BIAP.It is a bus with armor, used for running Route Irish from the IZ to BIAP. Comparing it to an APC is ignorant. It is not a fighting vehicle, but serves its purpose well. It is escorted, there is an evacuation plan, and the troops who provide its security are on top of it.
I’ve run Irish in everything from a Bongo truck, to a soft skin pick-up, to an armored Suburban, to Little Bird and Blackhawk helicopters. They all have limitations. We do the best we can. As for the “electronic surveillance” suggestion, you don’t have a clue as to what is in place here. All the video cameras in the world won’t detect/stop a car bomb that merges onto Irish and rams into your motorcade, it will just provide good video for the internet.
The bus is a good thing considering all the alternatives. I hate the liberal comments from losers that feel this country shouldn’t protect itself. How many people can still claim to be opposed to this war after seeing a hundred dead civilian bodies, murdered for no better reason than being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Wake up losers!
I am appalled Rumsfeld and especially appalled that General Myers rode in this bus. General Patton would not have ridden like a coward in such a vehicle with his troops exposed. I think General Patton would slap General Myers in the face for cowardice. We, the most powerful military force in the world, cannot secure a 5 mile (9 kilometer) stretch of road. And how can we expect Syria and Iran to close their borders when we can’t even close our own borders with Canada and Mexico?
Iraq’s production and possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction (nuclear, biological, chemical) was President Bush’s justification for America going to war against Iraq. None have been found, none existed. It now also appears Iraq had no ties with Al Quada. As a matter of fact Al Quada is also an enemy secular Arabic governments such as Saddam’s regime. It now appears President Bush massaged the intel to show Iraq possessed WMD’s because he wanted to go to war against Iraq at any cost to satisfy his personal agenda.
We now know the truth. It time to pull out of Iraq.
What if President’s Johnson and Nixon had pulled us out of Vietnam when they no longer believed in it. We would have saved around 40,000 American lives. Nixon tried to bring us “peace with honor”. That cost us another 35,000 US service members lives. He should have pulled us out right away as the Vietnamese did not embrace the type of lifestyle we tried to impose upon them. And what condition is Vietnam in today after we lost the war there? I recently bought a shirt in Kohls’ Dept Store that was “Made in Vietnam” and starting next year Vietnamese soldiers will begin training in the United States with American soldiers.
If we pull out of Iraq now There will be a civil war. The Shiite majority has been dominated by the Sunni minority for a bit over 1,000 years now. The Sunnis also collaborated with Saddam. Perhaps with Saddam out of the way we need to pull out, stand back, and let the Shiites rise up and assert their freedom over the Sunnis in a civil war it that is what it takes for the Shiites to gain their freedom and establish a type of government they want…not one we impose on them. They need to settle it amongst themselves. But we won’t let them because Iraq has the 2nd or 3rd largest reserves of oil in the world and we want that.
Support our troops by binging them home now.
Steven R., Major, U.S. Army Retired
I have to laugh about half no make it two thirds of the comments on here.
I spent 14 mounths in that country and not once did i ride in one of these or see one. So i have no comment on them.
I did make over a hundred trips in the back of a hummer with just my intersepter vest, weapon, kevlar, and a prayer on my lips that some fruitcake didnt decied that i was his new target.
The trip from Bagdad to the “Green Zone” is one of the most never racking trips i made while i was there. there is way to many place for IEDs, roadside bombs, and hit and run artest to hide that there is almost no way to find them all.
The smarter we get the newer the insurgents find ways to get around the ways we fight them. all we (ie military) can do is try to stay one step ahead of them.
sence it seams that everyone else has put a political view on here so will i
WE ARE THERE GET OVER IT!!!
WE SHOULD NOT LEAVE TILL THE JOB IS DONE. GET OVER IT!!!!!!
If you dont like what the president does then next you need to fine a few more friends that think like you and havae them vote with you. GET OVER IT!!!!
This country was built on the bodies of those that know what the price of freedom was, is, and will always will be.
Most Americans never knew what they had (freedoms). Now that they do most dont want to pay for it. So its up to a hand full of men and women to pay with time, sweat, tears, blood, and lives just so they can be free. ( I didnt serve this country for millions of people. I do it for the three little girls that I give kisses at night before they go to sleep.)
and lastly
if you dont like the freedoms that you have here GET THE F@CK OUT of this country and go and live some where else
I fully agree with waht TRM said and how he thinks, but I know others do not so I guess everyone has an opinion so heres mine…We are there for a reason, we went and took Saddam down and now are working on restoring peace and civilization. Now I cannot fully understand because I was not over there but my dad was and saw it all, from dead civilians ( if any), soldiers ( God rest their souls), and freinds getting wounded and saying this respectfully, killed. I am still young (15) and being that he was over there I have a sense of what he and other fellow Army-Navy-Air Force-National Guard-Marine Corps soldiers, and any that I may have forgotten at the moment. They put their lives on the line so those that oppose the war can wake up and drink coffee and enjoy their freedom , which I may add is being held up for them by these soldiers. Everyone one of those soldiers that die over and any man or woman who goes over there has my respect and prayers.
It loks formidable. And it looks like a target. Breaks a couple of rules. Need a bus that looks like a bus and still has good protection.
Seth
Must be nice, I saw one of them just sitting at the Palace side of Victory, while we were still using regular charter buses for the trip from BIAP to the Green Zone.
Contrary to some ad hominem attacks (you know who you are), Democrats, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Libertarians, and Republicans who thought George W. Bush lied in order to get us into war in Iraq support the troops with all our hearts. We want them safe, to be and feel supported, and loved. No question. However, apparently you Bush fans don’t care that George W. Bush lied and hyped in order to get us into Iraq in the first place (connection with Al Qaeda?; inspectors can’t do the job?; “last throes”?; huh??), when the overwhelming consensus in the IC (intelligence community) and Pentagon was that Iraq was no threat. Yeah, we’re there, and the demagoguery of some aside, we’re over it, but that doesn’t mean some folks need to impugn the patriotism of those who are dismayed that Mr. Bush was quite happy to lie his ass off so that 1700+ of our best young people could die in the most ineptly justified and planned operation post-WWII alongside the Bay of Pigs. You folks who are Bush/Cheney fans should be livid as hell about what lies Bush and Cheney are spouting off, and spouted off to begin with. They need to level with the American public. They’ve not done so since they used 9/11 as an excuse to shift the focus from Al Qaeda to Iraq. Now, according to the CIA, Bush and co. have transformed Iraq into the largest haven of terrorists in the world, and the most sophisticated terrorist factory/laboratory in the world, where they will gain experience to export their hate around the world. It’s a damned shame Bush fans didn’t turn on their brains and hold George W. Bush accountable. One thing’s for sure: he’ll be accountable to God for wanting war in Iraq more than anything else.
Contrary to some ad hominem attacks (you know who you are), Democrats, liberals, moderates, conservatives, Libertarians, and Republicans who thought George W. Bush lied in order to get us into war in Iraq support the troops with all our hearts. We want them safe, to be and feel supported, and loved. No question. However, apparently you Bush fans don’t care that George W. Bush lied and hyped in order to get us into Iraq in the first place (connection with Al Qaeda?; inspectors can’t do the job?; “last throes”?; huh??), when the overwhelming consensus in the IC (intelligence community) and Pentagon was that Iraq was no threat. Yeah, we’re there, and the demagoguery of some aside, we’re over it, but that doesn’t mean some folks need to impugn the patriotism of those who are dismayed that Mr. Bush was quite happy to lie his ass off so that 1700+ of our best young people could die in the most ineptly justified and planned operation post-WWII alongside the Bay of Pigs. You folks who are Bush/Cheney fans should be livid as hell about what lies Bush and Cheney are spouting off, and spouted off to begin with. They need to level with the American public. They’ve not done so since they used 9/11 as an excuse to shift the focus from Al Qaeda to Iraq. Now, according to the CIA, Bush and co. have transformed Iraq into the largest haven of terrorists in the world, and the most sophisticated terrorist factory/laboratory in the world, where they will gain experience to export their hate around the world. It’s a damned shame Bush fans didn’t turn on their brains and hold George W. Bush accountable. One thing’s for sure: he’ll be accountable to God for wanting war in Iraq more than anything else.
There have been some interesting comments regarding using APCs such as the M113 to safely transport American troops through dangerous areas, such as:
=============
This bus could never be able to handle the same sort of punishment as proper APCs, for instance both in all-terrain capability as well as in the ability to withstand mines and IEDs.
and
The BUS however, is a temporary solution to a nagging problem. My personal favorite solution is to equip units with M113′s, an aging, but cheap solution to urban and insurgent operations. Lean is one thing, but lean and safe is another.
=======
The M113 is a lightly armoured vehicle constructed largely out of light weight aluminum and designed for speed and not for strength. An M-16 bullet can pierce its armour from close range. It provides more protection than riding in an open jeep, but it certainly does not provide sufficient protection for troops against road side bombs.
I can also personally attest an M113 is very uncomfortable to ride in, but that’s a minor consideration.
Yap, yap, yap. I wish you underclass peasants would quit making such a clamor. Can’t you see I’m sitting in my mansion relaxing and playing golf? Just get out there and protect the contractors as we secure the oil. We’ll let you know when you can come back. Please, just don’t try to rub elbows with us when (most of you) get back either, you’re just not in the same class. Now, say “Sir, yes sir” and be on your way.
I WANT KNOWE THINGH A BOUT WORD BEAUTIFUL WOMEN.
Brad. I appreciate your thoughtful posting. I admire the way you stated the facts without using profanity. I totally agree. All you “over there” I know its hard to ignore the ignorant, but continue to do so. By telling these people they’re immature, does nothing. They’re selfish and immature and should be IGNORED. They are a waste of space and are few among many. They do not account for the majority. We here support you and what you are doing. God Bless You All!! Thank you for your sacrifice and your sense of duty. Semper Fi.
I am proud of the job the military is doing. The people of Iraq are suffering, but they don’t complain because they are happy for the freedom we have given them. They have newspapers now, thousands of them. They have debate on the radio and on tv. They can vote, and demonstrate in the streets. The men of Saudi Arabia voted for the first time not too long ago. Women in Saudi Arabia may vote in the near future. Someday, women in Saudi Arabia may even drive! We are welcoming a civilization into the 21st century, you have to expect some turmoil.
The buses are needed for the diplomats and VIPs. Soldiers can shoot and scoot.
I was on the Rhino Bus Last November, when it was hit by the Suicide bomber. A blue BMW 3 series, fairly new one too. I watched the vehicle come across the waste ground to our right swerve inbetween the secound vehicle and the first, which i was sat in the back seat of. It was between the two vehicles about 8m from us when the guy detonated. He was an arab (obviously) around 22 – 26 years old wearing a blue checked shirt and was clean shaven. This i remember vividly cos as an ex-military type with many years active service behind me, i thought “were done for here”. But thanks to this remarkable vehicle i am still here.
I have also done the same route several times since then in the Rhino, and feel very safe my life is in good hands.
Three cheers for the Rhino gets my vote.
The “Rhinos” are the same for the troupe in Iraq,
as the “Elephants” were for the Russians in the
Gulag.
THANKS FOR LOVING THE BUS. BUT HOW STUPID ARE WE TOO ANNOUNCE WHO WE TRANSPORT ON IT… THANKYOU ALL I FELL ALOT SAFER NOW THAT ALL THE IRAQ’S KNOW…. LETS THINK BEFORE WE WRITE CLASSIFIED INFO ON THE NET….
I can’t believe all the fuss about why “only diplomats and contactors” get to ride “the bus”. First of all, that isn’t true. Anyone going in the same direction can get a ride, if there’s room. How many “diplomats and contractors” do you think ride the “bus route” on a nightly basis? Get real, State Department personnel might have priority, but they’re a tiny minority of bus passengers.
Second, there’s the question of numbers. We own five rhinos. There are tens of thousands of soldiers in Baghdad…hmmmm….
Okay, look at the two methods of travel used by soldiers, helicopter and humvee. Well, it’s been a while since a helicopter got shot down, so I imagine that’s a bit safer than the rhino. And what’s wrong with a soldier on his way back from leave getting a ride in a humvee? Isn’t that what he does on a daily basis anyway? Ride around Baghdad in a Humvee?
You are correct Connor.
US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.
One day=2000
3 years=2000
If people want to debate the war and politics at least make sure you actually know what your talking about!!! you’re obviously connected to the internet so put it to good use and google the issues!
On the subject of the bus:
I think the rhino is very cool and I would feel safe driving on one (I may even get to as I am a photojournalist) but I would still prefer an APC. As for the troops I think between the upgraded humvees, M113′s and M2 Bradley IFV’s they are pretty well covered (though the millitary has got to stop transporting people in those flatbed trucks-IED and RPG magnet)
can anyone tell me how much $$$ is costs to get a ride from the IZ to BIAP? Is it easy to catch a ride on it?
ride is free….be there on time to book your seat….we will do rest of it
Body armor isnt the only short sighted Iraq war supply quirk i want to talk about. Why didnt our government seriously invest any thought in or even concieve of fielding major technology in specialized armored heavy and light heavy trucks and light trucks years before the war in Iraq. Winning or loosing could depend on it. Thousands of our troops are vulnerable each day driving tin can un armored death traps. A good portion of the death and chaos in iraq for US troops seems to stem from attacks from IEDs,RPGs,and truck bombs involving convoys with conventional un armored or poorly armored trucks and hummers. Major blunder not investing in armored trucks long before the war.
———–
—–The “Rhinos” are the same for the troupe in Iraq, as the “Elephants” were for the Russians in the Gulag.
Posted by: Frank S. Calco at August 24, 2005 02:51
—–By the above comment I posted then–8-24-05,
I assumed the fact would be known by those that read Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn’s books on the prison camps in the Soviet Union of WW2–by the prisoners refering to the camps as “Elephants”–
meaning they were locked…. in and safe from outside forces– as our soldeirs in Iraq would be in the “Rhinos”.—-however……..
—-frankCC—Chio….
I always adhere to and keep a distance from everyone. Until now, I did not have a true friend, although I was a lonely, although I did not like the other players that they have many friends send them cheap zeny, I must be rely on myself, at least I will not hurt anybody, and perhaps this is kind of happiness.
Looking back at the past, in those days, we played together; we have no much rappelz money, we have no need equipment and no senior friends too us, but I am still playing very happy. Rappelz left everywhere in our laughter. There is only one reason is that I have her around, I would meet, everything becomes unimportant. One thing I feel very sorry, that is when I married her, mo gorgeous fireworks, mo friends of blessing. Now I have heart, I feel wronged her, I am sorry to her.
Later, in January of this year, I have entered into this long hoped for world. Following in their previous game, I have some experience, at first I bought some RF cp to arm my number, so I grew up gradually. Later, I joined the empire of darkness, I recognize some friends. Later matured, I separated from the darkness; to join a trade union has just established a new, expanding trade union began a journey, and I recognized a lot of friends.
I have not had to play Gaia, and occasionally I will play friend number, in order to spent time. One day, one more than 20 levels player asked me if I can as her husband. At that time, I think she is a fraudsters, I think that number had no things. So I asked her if she had QQ and video. She said she had. So we added QQ and started video, after a short of time video chat, I knew that she was not a liar, she just a new player of Gaia. Soon, we closed the video, we returned to the game, and I bought Gaia gold change some things that married need use, and we married.
Virtual net works, virtual role of the game, I did not as him what people. It is only a game; happy is the purpose of the game. I chat with him happy. I have an on line he will not be alone to upgrade and earn GuildWars money, but rather for the first time chat with me, in this way we often sit together.
l love that
These things look like absolute monsters like a mad max vehicle
and verry eazy you fell in love with these”bricks”
they awesome…. belive…
ben there,done that,got shirt……and still there, doing that, wearing shirt…sometimes, but enjoying what i am doing
This is a good truck.I should know.I drove one for 10 months in Iraq and although I was never hit by an i.e.d I felt pretty safe in it.I would loved to have a weapon system on it like a crow system.It could move ok but I thought it was under powered for its wieght.All and all Im pretty sure that I have this vehicle to thank for keeping me and my partner and all the passengers I had safe.