According to scotsman.com, a British Eurofighter turned the tables on a pair of American F-15 Eagles after a chance encounter turned into a mock dogfight. And the Eurofighter was a trainer.
The ‘clash’ took place last year over Windermere when the two-seater RAF Eurofighter was ‘bounced’ from behind by the two F-15E fighters.
The US pilots intended to pursue the supposedly hapless ‘Limey’ for several miles and lock their radars on to it for long enough so that if it had been a real dogfight the British jet would have been shot down.
But much to the Americans’ surprise, the Eurofighter shook them off, outmanoeuvred them and moved into shooting positions on their tails.
The British pilots themselves were almost as surprised at winning an encounter with an aircraft widely regarded as the best fighter in the world.
This will no doubt give ammunition to those calling for more F/A-22 fighters in the US Air Force.
Speaking of outrageously-priced fighter planes, the article notes that Eurofighter supporters were glad to hear some good news since the project was a decade late and $8 billion over budget.
–posted by Murdoc
{ 13 comments… read them below or add one }
The question here is not that the “Eurofighter” is a match for the F-15C but are American pilots still the best in the sky?
The Imperial General Staff tried a couple of weeks ago to convence us that the Chinese were on the verge of building an F-22, it didn’t sell. Now they have brought up theis story, again. Not unlike a year ago when the winnig pilots were from the Indian Air Force flying Indian made Su-27′s.
The United States is at war and all the Generals and Admirals can think about new uniforms, what new medals and badges the can create and securing a cushy retirement job for themselves with a defense contractor. I think the general public would find it refreshing to see some warriors put on the stars and get rid of some of the military beaucrats.
For over a year now the Air Force has been telling whom ever would listen that combat training has fallen off because of funds, manpower and equipment is being siphoned out of training budgets for the war in Iraq.
Air Combat skills are perishable and constant training is necessary to maintain those skills. Combat flying in Iraq and Afghistan has brovided lots of experience in the Ground Support mission but at the expense of the Air Combat role.
When the Generals get their “Gold Plated” F-22′s who is going to fly them?
The “Bomb Dropers”?
A better investment by the Air Force would be instead of the F-22 and the F/A-22 would be investing in their human assets with more and better training. The same thing can be said about the Navy and Marines also.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
In response, the F/A-22 is needed because it is the best fighter plane in the world, and it continuly beats the F-15C. As for the Eurofighter, it is newer and more manuavarble then the F-15, and it was 2 F-15E Strike Eagles, “bomb droppers” that engaged the eurofighter. The Indian Air Force, only won because the ROEs didn’t allow for the Eagle drivers to use the tactics they were taught, and trained with.
Or, this was another staged stunt like the US’s “defeat” at the hands of the Indians (or whoever it was) a year or two back, to show how badly the 22 is needed.
I agree with you John. This really isn’t a fair comparison. The F15E is not only a bomb dropper itself, but so are the pilots. They are “part time” air to air fighters and their pilots have only the basic skills. The F15C pilots are full time air to air guys. I believe that was the difference here. All that said, I still believe in the need for the F/A-22. The best way to win a war is not to fight, and the best way to not fight is to be so good the enemy loses hope.
I’d like to hear more about how the Eurofighters managed to get into a superior position against the F-15s before passing judgement. The fact that the Eagles were “E” models shouldn’t make them any less capable. Any extra weight for the second seat should be compensated with by the later engines and avionics package than the “C” models. Also, the Typhoon/Eurofighters were trainers (read: 2 seaters) that “disadvantage” should be a wash.
I’d agree that training probably paid as important a role as any in the encounter and there is no shame in losing to the RAF.
Having said all of that, clearly the F-15 while still the standard-bearer, has been surpassed dynamically by a host of competitors such as the Eurofighter/Typhoon, Rafale and a slew of MiG’s and SU’s. Whether we need the F-22 is a complicated calculus that depends as much upon who we think we’ll be fighting against in the next war as what the enemy’s equipment will be. Cost being no object, I’d hedge my bet with the ’22!
And scotsman.com heard the tale from a guy who knew a guy who blew a guy who was the Scottish Instructor pilot who got called on the carpet by his Brit C.O. and told not to embarrass the Yanks because….. Nuts! In 10+ years of working around S.E.A and M.E. I’ve never heard one Brit defend anything American unless it was their right to eat with the pigs. Disclosure:I’m Canadian-ascended from English, returning soon to Australia. Maybe two curious Yanks flew alongside a novel aircraft which, much to their astonishment, executed a loop and parked behind them while filling their headsets with rat-tat-tat sounds and girlish giggling? Better hold off on the Air Defense Strategy revisions till the story is outed properly on BBC/CBC/ABC and PBS.Talk about soft targets!
Well,
why is everybody so surprised that Typhoon whacked two F-15s. F-15 prototype took off in 1972 and the jet itself is overdue for retirement. Russian Su-27 took the title “Best figter jet in the world” from F-15 20 years ago, and it is not getting any better! F-15 is a toast for new Rafale, Typhoon or Su-30 jets.
F-22 gives pilots HUGE advantage over any other jet simply by its mere plying performance (T/W ratio, wing loading result in fantastic acceleration, rate of climb, sustained turn rate). Its avionic suit is excellent, APG-77 radar, add supercruise, stealth, range…
In one world – fighterpilots dream.
For Byron Skinner: I used to judge fighters by their maximum speed in elementary school – that number really does not say much. BTW, Mig-29 and Su-27 have both top speed of 2.3 Mach (the same CAGI body design).
Martin
F/A-22 can go mach 2.42 with Afterburner. Without in speeds excess of 1.7. So, actually the raptor is the fastest.
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as far as i know, these were F-15Es, operating out of lakenheath airbase, with CFTs,A-G munitions as well as A-A weaponry, not ideal for a dogfight, i would like to have seen a F-15C in clean configuration in there!
and another thing, the F-22 Raptor has a top speed of about 1437mph. Pretty good, considering that it can pull 9 G’s at that speed,the Su-27, about 1521mph, max G,7.The F-15,1875mph,or Mach 2.5, and the Eagle can attain this speed at about 45000 feet, 9G maximum.The Raptor, thanx to its 2 dimensional thrust vectoring system, achieves its peak preformence, meaning turns, climbs, and acceleration, at 45000 feet.The F-15 and Su-27 at around 38000.
the eurofighter has a top speed of about 1397mph, attains maximum preformence at about 34000, and has the most dismal thrust to weight ratios of all the aircraft mentioned on this thread thus far.Now we go to radars,the raptor has a APG-77 AESA radar, the max range is classified so dont ask.The F-15 is standardly fitted with the APG-63 V2 AESA radar, with a range of about 58nautical miles.Some are fitted with APG-63 V3 AESA radar with better range,traking ability, and sweep angle than even the raptors APG-77! The eurofighters radar i dont know much about, so if any RAF nuts are out there,please dont mind to chime in at anytime.