“After three years of being laughed out of meetings, the U.S. Marine Corps’ futuristic plans to deploy through space may finally be getting some traction,” notes Aviation Week’s spunky new spin-off, Defense Technology International.
Although the chuckle factor hasn’t altogether disappeared, the Air Force Research Laboratory and Darpa are beginning a study of options for a reusable upper-stage space travel vehicle — the same kind of technology that the Marines might need for a ride halfway across the globe.
The effort is called “Hot Eagle,” and it could be the first step forward in the Marine Corps’ hopes for space travel. Within minutes of bursting into the atmosphere beyond the speed of sound — and dispatching that ominous sonic boom — a small squad of Marines could be on the ground and ready to take care of business within 2 hours. [One presentation muses that the capsule might later be picked up by a Osprey or by a “balloon cable and C-17″ transport plane. Or, the Marines might “hike out,” and “leave [the] crew capsule behind.” — ed.]
The Marine Corps calls the concept the Small Unit Space Transport and Insertion Capability (Sustain). This plan, a growing group of Marine supporters say, is the natural evolution of the service’s proclivity for expeditionary warfare that began decades ago with amphibious landings…
The concept is to deliver strategic equipment or a small squad of soldiers to any point on the globe — even the most hard-to-reach location — within hours of need. Once on the ground, those soldiers can carry out strategically critical missions like reconnaissance or destroying a specific target.
At least, that’s their pitch.
THERE’S MORE: Speaking of space, Popular Mechanics is all over NASA’s return-to-the-moon announcement.
.…been watching for awhile now, and I find your sense of credibilty is about to break.
First of all if you know half as much as you think, then you would know that the Marine Corps was founded before the United States of America
United States Marine Corps, U.S. military corps that forms a separate service »>within the U.S. Dept. of the Navy«<. The Commandant of the Marine Corps is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. During conflicts, the Corps is charged with conducting all land operations essential to the successful prosecution of a naval campaign; during peacetime, its top priority is combat readiness. Famous for its esprit de corps, the Corps emphasizes physical fitness and intensive training. In 1775, the Continental Congress created two federal battalions of marines to serve as naval infantry. In 1798, the United States Marine Corps was established and placed under the control of the Secretary of the Navy. Marines have participated in every major war, especially the Mexican War; World War I; World War II; the Korean War; and the Vietnam War. They have developed expertise in counterinsurgency and guerrilla warfare, as well as in commando operations and amphibious warfare. Marine units are self-sufficient, with their own tanks and other armor, artillery, and air forces.
Now lets look at the facts.
1) If The Marine Corps was not a department of the Navy then then you may be able to look at it’s budget independently and among other branches of the United States Military. howevr because it isn’t your point of the Marine Corps being the most costly is null. In actuality the operating budget of the United States Marine Corps is appx. 1/4 o fthe total operating budget of the Department of the Navy.
2)Your point about the M16A2 is null and void as well.
The Marine Corps has and forever will prove to show that it can do more with less. We having been forever been the DRMO for what the Army beleive to be old weapons systems. When I left the Marine Corps it was just begining to receive the M240g, yes in 1998 we were still using M60(Echos). The M4 Carbine was appx 4yrs on the horizon as for the Reservists which you call an economical budget, They were just receiving M16A2’s yea reservists were in Desert Storm with M16A1’s buddy. Now you wanna talk Tanks? I saw with my own eyes Marines driving M16A1’s not A2’s. It’s something that people of our resiliance are capable of dealing with. We don’t sleep with mommy at night, we protect her ass.
As your mom said come strong or don’t come! By the way where are your “Records” I find it hard to beleive that you are a true Veteran, rather one hiding behind others actions in your hope to become recognized.
Maybe it’s because I am a Marine that I havn’t ever met another person of the armed forces that doesn’t hold a high degree of respect for the Marine corps. I have never met one that beleives that the Marine Corps is a defunct service. We clear the beach, airfield, and towns, allow you to plant your base of operations and then we come back and bail your ass’ out when you can’t hold the lines. Which is where most of our casualties come from. Your political psycho-babble just shows your ignorance, If half the men read this you would have a platoon at your door.….Luckily for you they are keeping you safe.
Semper Fi
If only ol’ Bobby Heinlein were here today… Between air-express Marines and the powered exoskeletons DARPA is funding, we have the seeds of real cap troopers.
I for one see two problems here; one is combat power and the other is safe delivery.
The MI in Starship Troopers were feasible because each man had the firepower and suriviability of an MBT combined with high mobility, the likes of which I’ve only seen in video games.
And here we’re talking about sending a bunch of fragile, unarmored men down whose heaviest weapon *might* be an antitank rocket.
We also have to deal with the fact that this system is going to be exremely vulnerable in the “delivery” phase– between atmospheric reentry and hitting ground, those Marines are going to be vulnerable in ways that make me shudder. They either come down like meteors, leaving an IR signature you couldn’t miss, and brake the last mile with ‘chutes (and spend the next few minutes swinging under those canopies, waiting for AAA and every peasant with a rifle to notice them) or else they use an airframe to “glide” down as the Space Shuttle did. Either way, they’re just as vulnerable as a conventional air insertion.
Oh, may I remind the audience how often our launches (manned and otherwise) are cancelled becaue of weather or minor glitches? Yet this is to be a rapid reaction force.
So– the designers need to contend with overall economy, vulnerability the “drop pod”, reliability of our launch systems, support and supply problems (we don’t have orbital bombardments yet!) and overall delivery precision. (I see a tradeoff between survivability and precision.)
It’s a useful concept; we need to develop the hell out of it for it to be militarily useful.
practically this is surely way in the future. better spend the US govt’s money reducing emmisions to slow global warming.….…rather than buying up other countries pollution allowances
we need to wise up otherwise there wont be much of a future!
byron, you don’t deserve to live in this great nation, if you even deserve to breath at all. Your disrespect for the United States Marine Corps is completely unacceptable. It is due to the brave soldiers that travel the great passage of the Marine Corps that even gives you the right to say what you will and show your disgusting opinion toward them.
hey, this aint about the US Marines Corp. Its AN ALL NEW DIVISION…so drop the space dreams of you sea and landlubbers and spare us the USMC angst.
Its gonna be called US Space Marines Division with a new history and tradition to create, new miltary funding and package. So dont link sempi fi with USSMD!.…the new motto’s gonna be ‘WE SAW, WE DROPPED AND WE CONQUERED!’ :-p
And how we gonna fund this division?…easy…raise taxes of every American citizen by 2 dollars a year and make sure the target foreign nation’s gold bullion is the first drop of visit. Raid em and blame it on terrorists or the anarchist. In times of peace, send em to the moon with a shovel instead of a rifle and dig some moondust for sale on earth!
The Marine Corps is where the hardest of the hard go, plain and simple.
I think you are mistaking them for the SAS and the even harder SBS — both of which would have any of your marines fro breakfast and not break a sweat.
Bryon Skinner, I think this is an arguement that you aren’t going to win, especially not with future, current, and retired members of the USMC. You have exercised your freedom of speech to state your opinion that the Marines are no longer needed. In turn, these Marines, along with members of the other services, have exercised their own freedom of speech to, in essence, tell you to go sodomize yourself.
I can see why they would respond this way; because you are treating them like nothing more than mere tools: you use them and then cast them away. These people, and people they know, have fought, bled and died in order to protect your right to say your opinion. Then you come along and tell them that they are no longer needed. It is a response that every member of the military abhors, but probably expects from the public. You should remember, even if you are retired military, that “good people are able to sleep soundly at night, because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” You should also remember that “just because you believe something is true, doesn’t make it true.“
Marines, you remember, “just because something is true, doesn’t mean you have to believe it is.” IF the USMC is destined to be disbanded and forgotten (which I do NOT think that it is), you will be able to look back and remember that you are, and always will be, one of “The Few, The Proud.” You will be able to remember that you were part of the greatest fighting force on the planet.
In regards to this idea, I believe that if this technology is feasible, we should go for it. To be able to deploy forces anywhere in the world within 2–4 hours, compared to the current “within 48 hours,” would be simply astounding. Also, I vote that the Marines recieve priority for this system, seeing as how that is their mission: to provide a quick reaction force capable of deploying anywhere on the planet. The other services would certainly benefit from this, but the Marines would the most. Have the Marines mobilize like this, and then have the Army reinforce them within a week via naval landings and C-5s or C-17s.
As for myself, I do not believe, nor hope, that the Marines are unneeded. In fact, I would say that they are needed now more than ever. I hold all Marines, and what they do, in the utmost awe, and I plan on making every effort to prove myself worthy to join this elite group of warriors. That is, of course, once I finish high school.
To my (hopefully) future brothers– and sisters-in-arms: Keep up the good work!
I wonder what Games Workshop would have to say about all of this.
I am far from being a military expert, but it seems that being able to respond so quickly would have enormous political benefits (Being able to respond to a situation with ‘conventional’ forces within one news cycle, for example).
If you can deploy men from space, then you can also deploy loitering HARM missiles, UAVs and UCAVs in the same way; although of course men would be able perform subtle and discreet missions in a way that no UCAV could. So there are plenty of military possibilities for such a ‘work-horse’ heavy-lift ICBM & reentry system.
I am pretty sure this system violates some nonproliferation treaty or other though, not to mention the HUGE amount of money it will cost.
But then again, who cares? Hey, I am not a US taxpayer, so go ahead, it ain’t my money you are spending, and I still get to watch the kick-ass cool videos of US space marines on the news in a few years time.
there are treaties banning the use of loitering orbit weapons. nothing about loitering orbit troops though.
This is a lovely, utterly impossible idea. At $5,000-$10,000 per lb to orbit, assuming a Marine is 300 lbs with gear (it wouldn’t surprise me if it were higher), that’s $1.5 to $3.0 million per Marine per launch. Then tack on the fact that landing a spacecraft is hardly precise, spacecraft are fragile (let’s hope no one tries to shoot at it while it’s landing), launches can take a substantial amount of time to prepare, and no one has ever tried to build a vehicle that could do anything remotely like this.…well, let’s just say the Marines are getting a bit ahead of themselves
Given what the world thought of people jumping out of airplanes in mass, this is not as out of the question as one may think.
One hundred years ago, we finally got off the ground. Fifty years ago, we broke the sound barrier. Just in the 50’s (somehow) the barrier was pushed to speeds we are just now coming to grips with to exceed. But the job of the USMC is to take the battle to the enemy and kick his butt. Even if the times have changed, the same job is asked of these young men. Every avenue available should be used to give these men the necessary to respond to ever growing and sophisticated enemy. Time is at a premium now and it is time we give that weapon to the fighting man. Semper Fi and on earth, the sea, and air (including space): GET ER DONE!
“you secure that sh_t, Hudson!”
How about we spend tax-payer money on something a little bit more feasible. Perhaps some mil-tech that won’t require 20 years of funding before it even becomes *feasible*.
Let the private sector and NASA do some grunt work on sub-orbital launches for a decade before the military gets involved. After all the military is much better at taking existing technology and turning it to military applications.
Also, a response time of 2 hours is a pipe-dream except in very very specific situations. The first time a President inserted an American military force into a foreign nation within a 2 hour period without even consulting members of congress…well, that mission better come off as a spectacular success otherwise somebody just comitted political suicide.
Great… put some more useless holes in our atmosphere..
If the job of art is to predict reality, then “Starship Troopers” is art
This reminds me of the gliders in the ETO on
D-Day, only more hi-tech. It’s a neat idea, but the D-Day gliders turned out to be dangerous, fragile, too heavy, unwieldy, and easily thwarted by stringing cables and felling trees in their paths. Many soldiers were killed before ever getting on the ground, or were killed by slamming into the ground upon attempting to land. How about a space “helicopter” with wings and retractable blades instead?
There’s reports of an Al-Queda base on LV-426 with possible xenomorph involvement.
Go get ‘em!
P.S. Dropships 4tw
Adeptus Astartes FTW
I believe I remember a treaty which bans all weapons in space, which the US will have to break in order to do this…
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
A combo of Marine Corps, NASA and the United States Air Force should head this domain. NASA because they have a lot of experience in the space field. USMC for the kick@$$ fighting force, and the USAF for the Airospace domain, it seems they should help in this idea.
While on active duty and a student at the Naval War College, I submitted a paper called, “Marines in Space.” I was laughed at by all the Marine students and the senior Marine there. The civilian professors loved the paper! Just goes to demonstrate that nothing is impossible!
At long last, the dream is slowly realized. I’ve believed in the concept of the “Extraplanetary Marine Force” of the U.S.M.C. since I saw them deploy in the James Bond movie “Moonraker”. Sadly, with the way politics is now, we may not see fruition until after we are gone. My hope is that my grandchildren will live to see and perhaps participate in the military conquest of space.
And for you P.C. “Flower-Children” out there, suck it up. It’s going to happen, and the United States of America is leading the way!
I agree with SGT. Jacobsen. It would be awsome to be apart of a space crew for the Marines.
“Remember your training, and you will prevail!”
We’re creeping into Airborn Territory here.
Some care to tell me how they will get out…great idea to get in but not so good for getting out.…
Look .…. politics aside. How about a little shred of fiscal responsibility..let’s call it fiscal reality here. A “small squad of Marines.” Is that .…. 15 or 20 troops ? What are the chances of them being lost to an accident in this contraption ? And bejeezus…what is this thing going to cost per unit ???? To get them there a few hours faster than if by C-17 ?
Why doesn’t the Navy develop a “Cargo” version of the venerable shipboard S-2 Viking ? You have your Marines on the aircraft carrier.…you take ‘em up in the C-Viking and pop them out into the airstream at 20,000 feet above the LZ. At infintesimal cost compared to the space boondoggle. However you’ve gotta like the movie tie-in to the Aliens series.
Yeah, thats what im talking about. Hopefully some aliens will try and invade and we can have some interstella war on, unless they are like the aliens out of star trek then i will have to bone them instead.…
All i know if the future is above where the eagles fly then i have to be part of it
hey send the airborn they suposed to be surounded son, yeah and what about the deep sea, maybee theres some sort of intergallactic space shark why not send the marines to investergate…launch thunderbird 4
Byron Skinner! You must be ex Army as the saying goes, not former, like Marines, and or you are a complete idiot! The Army has been trying for decades to get rid of the Corps, but as usual, the Corps is always called upon to really get the job done. The Army is just a huge conglomeration of bureaucrats who once in a while prove their worth. The Army doesn’t have total coordinated orchestrated package like the Corps! Just like they said Leonardo Divinci was a fool to experiment with flying, you are a fool to ignore what reality will come regardless of how far fetched the ideas are.
I don’t get the ‘chuckle’ bit.
Seems like a logical progression to me.
Add a capability to your military you don’t yet have.
Outstanding.
Think of the war against Al Qaeda. Decapitation is the way, but Intel gets real old real fast.
The ability to send a snatch squad anywhere in the world, quick and clear, is an ability the US needs but doesn’t have.
Makes sense.
Not that the USMC aren’t proposing this primarily coz of the ‘wheeeeeeeeeeeee’ factor, but there you go ;D
I think you clowns need to get out more!
omg it takes 2 hours for the troops to arrive , and thats not reliable
This is not only a logical prgression, it’s a kick ass concept! but it would take a bunch of training for the force recon contingient within socom. Damn. this is a new level of training. Some Force Recon Marines would have airborne wings AND astronaut wings. that would look so bad ass, no one would get in their way.
Forget HAHO and HALO… this is being shot up in a reusable canister into space at high speed only to fall back down a few minutes later at equally high speed (controlled by gps to exactly where they need to be)! Hopefully they can cover this capsule with a stealth coating… or make it appear as if it was a wayward meteorite on radar. we wouldn’t want folks knowing we came in unannounced! we could be in an out without warning anywhere any time! They could drop in from space, secure the target and either hump out or get picked up (the stealth would be eliminated at this point, but it would be too late for the badguys by this time).
After it’s proved by the recon boys, i’m sure the delta guys, seals, and parajumpers will get in on the act. could you imagine? a pilot goes down in the central asia far away from any base, and we shoot a rocket full a parajumpers from texas to pick him up in just 2 hours? catch 22 no more! damn.
or we find bin laden in some bar somehwere in some unreachable mountain hideaway… well delta boys drop in like death from above.
this concept is golden, if expensive…
Feasible, Fundable, and Fun.…Just the thing for the Corps. This idea is not that far fetched. I only see one problem: Geneva Convention wussies (The Marines are weapons, are they not?) getting antsy on the Arms in Space treaty.
Something else to consider: The Corps dreams it up, builds it, has success. Instantly, some US Army (Probably Special Forces before the pukes) unit tries it, unqualified and untrained, and gets like 15 guys killed. The project gets scrapped.
KEEP IT WITH THE ONES WHO PLANNED IT, AND TRAIN THEM UP ON IT.
To the attack of “hope someone doesn’t shoot at it”… High temperature superalloys. Say, titanium outer shell, with enough Kevlar inside to stop a 25mm autocannon round. The only reason stuff like this is “impossible” is because idiot politicians and unintelligent civilians (myself sometimes) decide that everything has to make money within the next 5 microseconds, and it has to be 60 digit payback. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! YOU CANNOT PUT A PRICE ON PROTECTING THE NATION WE LOVE!
Semper Fi,
Cianan JT Puckett (Hopefully joining the ranks of the USMC soon)
I believe that it will be the best thing for all MARINES. It will give them a chance to show the world and every other idiot, “that when you play with fire, you will get burned.” People “need” to respect the MARINES and everything that they do for us. I say,“why not give them everything that they want.” When they complete this new journey,I hope every person that chuckles or laughs,will think about weather or not they are worthy of the MARINES to protect them. I believe in everything that the MARINES do and stand for. If it were not for them, we would have lost alot of battles. I say that they are the best thing that has ever happened to this country. For any body that does not like the fact of what they do, try being in there shoes and dying if need be for this country and allowing us to live free and peaceful at night knowing that they are there watching over us so we dont have to. Yes, I love the MARINES and will join shortly myself. I believe every body needs to fight for them to succeed in gaining the space program.
What happens if an hour after lift off you realise the mission is compromised and the LZ is a bust? Have you just ballistically deployed a bunch of marines on a one way trip to shit city?
Outstanding, just freaking Oustanding. A new capability for a quick strike. Of course this capability sould fall under the preview of the Corps, it would just be an extension or improvement on the Corps’ current reapid deployment capabilities. Of course it would also have applications for the air farce’s PJ’s and for delta. The ability to insert a small force anywhere on the globe in under three or four hours instead of days, the implications boggle the mind. And yes I’m another former jarhead, that don’t mean that I am prejudice toward the Corps on a project like this. The implications for a capability like this are just too great to think about, much less to enumerate in less that two or three hundred pages.
You marines take yourselves way to seriously.
Your giving yourself a bad image to the rest of the world
i dont know anything about the differences between the army and the marines in the USA
but i do know that in any defence force, all different corps, regiments,air forces, navies, armies they all rely on each other to get sucsess
maybe if you blokes did that Iraq wouldve been an easier campaign.
hahaha and dont get me started on Mc Arthur in the phillipines
I see comments from folks who can’t spell or form a complete sentence.
Why would anyone take them seriously?
For Byron:
There are only two kinds of people,
Marines and those who want to be.
I think this project is gonna EPIC FAIL now, Space Marines are no match for the the Credit Crunch! Told them they should just make Space Marine power armor and bolters instead..
i am looking for my 214 records and telephone number
What is this I dont’ even
Has anyone ever really even want to do look more like?
Sow how does one recover one’s multi-million dollar spaceship after firing it deep into enemy territory, I wonder?
Just a thought
LOL to all those who commented about Army Airborne. The USARMY forgot how to jump off a plane after WW2. Space is considered the “vast sea of space” which the marines are used for landings on the sea, hence its our territory. Show me some Army guy who would be stupid enough to try this. They would not do it unless they were promised a $50K bonus. In the marines some new recruit would be suckered by the recruiter into thinking he would be a admin guy or Motor T and then sent to this by the non-ob MOS contract. The Marines are the Best, the dumbest at times, and the best for this new technology. OOORAH
maybe some people in the armed forces should stop playing Halo:ODST.
NASA can’t keep up a steady program for commercial flights where bigger amounts of money are being shelled out for commercial interests –than the measly government funds for defence– and they think you can do this routinely? keep on dreamnig for another 20 yrs…
one last thing :
if the u.s. wants to protect their nation, they a) should stop poking their noses into other nations’ business just to make a buck out of it,
b)-in relation to a)- should be more careful what allies they choose because your friend today can be your foe tommorow and vice versa.
then you won’t need space marines, rockets, aliens or whatever