“After three years of being laughed out of meetings, the U.S. Marine Corps’ futuristic plans to deploy through space may finally be getting some traction,” notes Aviation Week’s spunky new spin-off, Defense Technology International.
Although the chuckle factor hasn’t altogether disappeared, the Air Force Research Laboratory and Darpa are beginning a study of options for a reusable upper-stage space travel vehicle — the same kind of technology that the Marines might need for a ride halfway across the globe.
The effort is called “Hot Eagle,” and it could be the first step forward in the Marine Corps’ hopes for space travel. Within minutes of bursting into the atmosphere beyond the speed of sound — and dispatching that ominous sonic boom — a small squad of Marines could be on the ground and ready to take care of business within 2 hours. [One presentation muses that the capsule might later be picked up by a Osprey or by a “balloon cable and C-17″ transport plane. Or, the Marines might “hike out,” and “leave [the] crew capsule behind.” — ed.]
The Marine Corps calls the concept the Small Unit Space Transport and Insertion Capability (Sustain). This plan, a growing group of Marine supporters say, is the natural evolution of the service’s proclivity for expeditionary warfare that began decades ago with amphibious landings…
The concept is to deliver strategic equipment or a small squad of soldiers to any point on the globe — even the most hard-to-reach location — within hours of need. Once on the ground, those soldiers can carry out strategically critical missions like reconnaissance or destroying a specific target.
At least, that’s their pitch.
THERE’S MORE: Speaking of space, Popular Mechanics is all over NASA’s return-to-the-moon announcement.
{ 108 comments… read them below or add one }
Ha Ha “Space Marines” I hope they have Ripley too!
lol!
Orbital Drop Shock Troopers!!!
“I say we take off an nuke the sight from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure”
While it seems pretty far out right now, it’s going to be the way to go in the not to distant future. I suspect that at some point just beyond that we will just park the Marines on orbit to be dropped into hot zones at a moments notice.
By the time this gets into the prototype phase, they might have a crew of robotic marines to go in it. They could indeed be kept in orbit, powered down, ready for almost instantaneous deployment.
It’s getting near the change of seasons again and the latest goofly idea to justify the Marines has been proposed.
I know the following will generate a lot of pro Corps feelings but in no way am I disrepecting the past glory of the Corp nor the individual courage of the Marines.
The fact is the Geometry of a shrnking force, increased investment in technology and a military that no longer sees conquer and occupy as its mission has doomed the Marines.
Because of the aversion to causalities of Americans, the American people are chosing to fight wars not in the traditional format of combat and taking land but mearly to that of a short violent battle and then letting the survivors sort things out for themselves. “Wer’e out’a here”
Other then the last opposed amphibious landing was almost 55 years ago and that in general the Marines are redundant as is being shown in Iraq. There is not logical reason for a Marine Corps.
The fact that the DoD can’t get a small squad to take care of business in the Latrine/Head in two hours has escaped everyone. If a problem requires that quick of action we already have the means to take care of business, it’s called ICBM’s.
The Marines are nothing more then a romanic anarchism from an Imperalistic past. They are expensive and are losing any unique place they have in the 21st. Century Battlespace.
The future that is playing out before use right now in the GWOT is a long term conflict, none of us nor our children will see then end of it, that will be a series of “…bloody, brutal battles with out conquest…”* carried out by efficent antonomous killing machines.
The U.S.Marines don’t have a roll here.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
* A bast**dized quote from the Fifth Lord Byron Gordon, 1809.
You're an ignorant civilian who knows dick about the Marines and watches too much tv. :)
We don't need a goofy idea to justify the Marine Corps. The fact that the Marine Corps has fought in EVERY U.S. war since the beginning of the United States, and still gets more done with less funding than the Army, justifies itself.
Have a nice day.
The Marine Corps uses only about 6 percent of the entire military budget if not less, and the cost for each Marine is around $20,000 less than the cost of a servicemember from another branch of the military, such as the Army. So what you said about the Marines being expensive is total bulls**t. The Marines frequently get screwed on their budget, so they just have to make do. Unlike the Army, which gets a s**t ton of money. Now i'm not going to disrespect any of the other services, because they have been fighting just as hard as the Marines. But the fact remains that we need a force that is ready at all times to respond to any crisis quickly. And since the Marine Corps is such a light force when compared to the Army, it's the best service for the job.
The Marine Corps is where the hardest of the hard go, plain and simple. They deploy rapidly, they break things, and they get out. The Army is set up for long-term conflicts, for sustainability, and for holding ground.
Who was called into Fallujah? The Marines. Who pulled off Operation Matador? The Marines. I hear constantly that the Marines are the ones to send in for the really tough jobs. The vast majority of leathernecks are there because they want to fight. You get a lot more college soldiers in the Army. That’s fine, but it’s nice to have a force full of absolute warriors.
That’s why the Marine Corps is important.
I don’t get it. The system is expensive, unreliable (the current, resuable shuttle has a ~3% catastrophic failure rate), and easy to detect w/ ICBM monitoring satellites. And it puts in a single squad. Don’t helos and the osprey, not to mention the low altitude versions of the C-130s do this job already, with lower expense, more men, and more survivability? This is just a half-baked idea with no operational or tactical utility.
don’t get it. The system is expensive, unreliable (the current, resuable shuttle has a ~3% catastrophic failure rate), and easy to detect w/ ICBM monitoring satellites. And it puts in a single squad. Don’t helos and the osprey, not to mention the low altitude versions of the C-130s do this job already, with lower expense, more men, and more survivability? This is just a half-baked idea with no operational or tactical utility.—————–
Ah, grasshopper, but you forget delicious government pork that will be dished out to campaign contributors because of this. Congressmen and Senators have to be reelected, you know.
I really dont think this is actually going to happen, but the entire program is really something to hopefully spark ideas and develop technologies that will make sound weapons’ technologies viable in the future. It is all aobut research and development, you dont simply just get great weapons, there were plenty of bombers during the cold war before the B-52. Most of those bombers were a waste of money in the short run and weren’t in our arsenal very long, but at the same time they started turning the wheels for the development of the B-52. Simply put you have to start somewhere…
Come on now, let the corps enjoy a little piece of the space race. Why must the Air Force have all high atmo$pheric vehicles ?
I certainly hope that they will be using stealth technology in this puppy. Otherwise it will be a very short and final trip for the passengers. One big difference between the Army and the Marines-the Army knows when not to do something as losses would be too high, the Marines, don’t seem to care.
i read somewhere that your wrong and the gigantic heavy armor divisions are going away not to far in the future and you said that were going to lighning quik and violent in your post thingy. the heavy tank divisions are going away
STARSHP TROOPERS HERE WE COME
Cap troopers indeed! Have a read of Starship Troopers (the original sixties book) as Jonah suggested above. Interesting extrapolation from a very creative mind.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785787283/qid=1127190536/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-2770378-2968627?v=glance&s=books
If the Marines are redundant then why not have a space navy? After all if nasa are going to the Moon and Mars you need someone around to protect them from any hostile threat! eg-AL QUADEA’S space squad.
“Byron Skinner” You are an imbicile. The Marine Corps has been used in more way’s possible. Marines were the first ground troops to own dirt in Afghanistan, all follow on operation’s continued on their heels, OIF 1, was supposed to be two seperate Marine Corps Division’s attacking with an Army Division Support. I don’t know why we didn’t do that. It’s funny how the Army is buying their own ships to be able to put Infantry ashore ?? Sound familliar ?? The fact is The Army Is a big lump of metal, and sub standard flesh that take up a lot of space, the fact that the Marine Corps is in charge of Al Anbar province tells you something. The Fact is the 82nd Airborne commanders dropped the ball in Fallujah, and were too afraid to go into the city, that is why (a year later) top brass sent in Marines. Fact is, as long as there is America, there will always be a Marine Corps, because the Marines deal with all the little idiots in the world, that the Army logistically can’t handle; then once engaged in major combat, the Marines will then be tasked to fight in the toughest areas of the battle field. That is the way it has always been, and that is the way it will always be. Semper Fidelis
While you guys sit here, at each others throats, arguing whether the army or the marines is better, just remember you are both fighting for the ideal.
So why is this being considered for military applications instead of for disaster aid – when a small, quickly-arriving, well-equipped for might be useful?
Get something that can drop a large payload of food, potable water, and soap into an inaccessible area, and give it to the Red Cross, and there won’t be much fuss about whether it’s worth doing.
Marines are really tasked with getting there first and fast. We used them in Iraq very well because they are just such well trained and very flexible forces but when it comes down to it they are the Quick Reaction Force of the US military.
Putting Marines on Orbit means that we could drop Squads, maybe even more (Depending on the technology they finally settle on) into a hot zone in just a few hours from the word go. This is something that we don’t have on a global scale. Sure they are lots of places we can do that, but there are lots of places that it would take days if not weeks to get Marines on the ground. This would give us the option to fight and control many situations before they get over blown.
hmmm…what do ya think? Have a Marine Corp division camped out in the Space Station until called upon. Then have them swoop into action?
There is no finer species than a U.S. Marine!
Byron Skinner: As long as there are wars and as long as there is an army, there will always be a need for the Marines! Semper Fi
I would like to apply for an outer space liquor license and “Mustang Ranch” Franchise license.
>”I say we take off an nuke the sight from orbit,
>it’s the only way to be sure”
They would only hide the brain bug deep inside the planetary crust. There’s just no substitute for Mobile Infantry.
Good Afternoon Folks,
I love you all, I can’t nor will I try and argure any of you about the Marines past glory, that was not the point of my post.
One of the purposes of technogoly is to be a force multiplier, or more machines less people. The recent invasion of Iraq showed how the then 30-40K force of Americans defeated a large standing Iraqi Army several time it’s size. In short the United States is the world premier “Network Killing Machine” and that machine is getting more lethal, bigger and badder all the time. The goal of the battlespace of the future is no Americans in harms way.
This may sound cold but it is reality. Soldiers/Marines are expensive, they need to be feed, uniformed, paid and if wounded there is a moral obgliation to care for them and their families. Machines have an up front costs and when they die, you recycle them into new killing machines. The bonus of this is, it’s also good for the economy.
Quite frankly the Marines are being used up. A article a few weeks ago in The New York Times on the conditions with in the 2ed. Marine Division understated how bad things really are. Consider this:
The Marines have no LAV’s or Abrams Tanks that are deployable. All have been either damaged in Combat or just plain worn out.
The Marines are using AAV-7″s as APC in Iraq and are losing them at a rate that can’t be sustained much longer. The replacement for the AAV-7, EFV was stripped out of the current budget by the Navy. In fact there is no equipment replacement money that the Marines need to stay a vaible force in the comming 2005/2006 DoD/Navy Budget.
Consider the following:
The M-16A4 rifles being used by the Marines are hand me downs from the Army, when in 2003 the Marines found that there M-16A2′s couldn’t fire the Armys ammo. The Army replaced the M-16A4 with the M-4, which will be replaced by the M-8 soon.
The Marines are not getting the M-8 Combat Rifle.
Both the 2ed. and 3ed. Marine Divisions are under manned and by pre Iraq readyness standards are not combat ready. They must be agumented by at least one Army BCT for deployment to Iraq.
Since 2003 the Marines have lost more men/women due to combat loss and not renlisting (getting out) then they have recruited as Pvt’s.
But take heart my Marine friends. With a Marine will be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, when ever that Air Force Guy leaves and with $Billion in shipbuilding contracts out, the Corps. is still good I would say for another 20 years or so. The organization that is swimming in a tiolet that is about to be flushed in the 82ed. Airborne Division.
I would be surprised to see the 82ed. is around much after the ’06 elections. Here are the hints.
1. It has not been transformed yet nor redeployed back to Iraq.
2. The last bock of C-17′s that the Air Force was to order from Boeing is on hold. About 20% of C-17′s in the Air Force are allocated to moveing the 82ed around. When Boeing said they would have to close the plant in California that made C-17′s the Air Force was unconcerned.
3. President Bush kissied off the 82ed. last week when he signed off on BRAC. Pope AFB which is the staging area for the 82ed. is to be realigned, ie. made smaller. The Division might be replaced by an ABN. BCT. at Ft. Bragg for any 9/11 duties, much the same as the 173ed. ABN Brigade in Italy. I suggest calling it the 187th. ABN BCT.
4. Like the Marines the 82ed. is expensive to maintain and have a limited roll in projected current conflicts.
5. Lastly,(almost) but not least Sec. of Defense Rumsfeld hates the Airborne Mafia with in the Pentagon and he considers the 82ed. there breeding ground.
6. The four M-8 Bufords AGS’s that were going to the 82ed. for a little more combat power are sitting in a parking lot in York Pa.
It is likely the 82ed. will be reflaged as a “Light Infantry” Division, like the 10th. Mtn. Div. or the 25th. Lt. Inf. Div.(which may be made into a Med. Inf. Div. w/Stryker) and it’s Div. HHQ moved to say either Ft. Benning or Ft. Polk. It is noted that Ft. Polk was removed from realignment from the BRAC list that the President ok’d.
To all of you who say no way any of this could happen consider this. In the 1930′s the Best and Largest Horse Cavalry in the World was in the Polish Army. On Sept. 1, 1939 all that became meaningless.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
you’re born-you die. everything in-be-tween is the Marine Corps …
“A article a few weeks ago in The New York Times…”
Well, no wonder your posts are against all this…You follow liberal media.
Lets catch the bad guys in Irak first we are in a debt we cannot find a way out yet, once thats done there will allways be ideas on the drafting board.a.b.
Lets catch the bad guys in Irak first we are in a debt we cannot find a way out yet, once thats done there will allways be ideas on the drafting board.a.b.
Does this sound like “Starship Troopers” and their “Mobile Infantry” (which, of course, the late Robert Heinlein, a USNA graduate himself, patterned on the USMC, or what??!
I didn’t think the biggest part of the time it takes to put a strong force of Marines into action was their travel time. Can’t you reach any place on the planet in 24 hours or so by C-130? I thought the biggest part of the time to put a strong force of Marines into action was the time to make the political decision, time to assemble the troops and equipment, and time to bring forward supporting firepower like carriers, armor, or artillery.
I agree, it’s a bold idea… and the spinoffs from it will be amazing, if it ever gets off the ground, so to speak. You can bet that, if we can put a platoon of Marines anywhere in the world in 2 hours, we’ll be using it for disaster relief as well.
But there are certainly logistical problems. Launch vehicles? (I would hope for Horizontal Takeoff / Horizontal Landing, but we’re far away from that today. If not, then hard landings are another problem entirely.)
And yes, stealthiness and defense-in-flight are important too. Anything that can take out an ICBM, or even give it a good try, could take out one of these babies.
One more thought — Marines, take your Dramamine. This is the biggest roller-coaster ride in the world we’re talking about here!
cheers,
DiB
Byron Skinner
You stated:
>”The fact that the DoD can’t get a small squad to take care of business in the Latrine/Head in two hours has escaped everyone”.
Marines have never had this problem… Even in the middle of a warzone, our heads are spotless sir.
>”The Marines are nothing more then a romanic anarchism from an Imperalistic past. They are expensive and are losing any unique place they have in the 21st. Century Battlespace”.
We do have a glorious history sir, but dollar for dollar, we are by far the cheapest military force in the U.S. and probably the biggest military bang for your buck in the world.
>”The U.S. Marines don’t have a roll here”.
Marines in space may be “out-there” but where ever there is a conflict, and the United States is involved, there will be Marines at the forefront.
Semper Fi.
saepe expertus
semper fidelis
fratres aeterni
Good Morning Folks,
All of you taken your Meds this morning I hope.
I just love it when I post something and there is no response to the argurment it generaly says that what I say is on the money.
Hey where are you ole’ 82nd. Guys out there?
The folks over at DoD who are fans of this web site came to the rescue of the 82nd. Airborne Division in this argurment.
In a DoD Press Service article by. Gerry J. Gilmore titled; “82nd. Airborne Division becomes ‘Waterborne’ in New Orleans.”
It’s a shot at the Marines of course, like hey anybody can work off “Boats” it’s no biggie.
I know some of you rabid defenders of the good old U.S.M.C. will screem at the top of your keyboards, but please spare me I didn’t write the story the DoD did, tell them.
Meanwhile, I’ve put my “Combat Record” up for all to see, will some of you “John Waynes”, a WWII Draft Dodger by the way, also state what you did so that you feel qualified to critize others.
Lets see how many of you were “Force Recon” in Vietnam or “Seals” on Spec. Ops. in the Ming Forest, or were assigned to “SOG Missions” into Laos or North Vietnam and can’t talk about it or maybe all of you were just the garden variety “Airborne Ranger, Special Forces” type?
I look forward to your stories.
To Mr. T Martinez, no the Marines are the most expensive fighting force we have when you add in all there Amphibious paraphanila. The most cost effective fighting force right now serveing are the National Guard. When they are not fighting they are at home feeding themselves instead of sitting areound Camp Pendleton cleaning their “Guns”.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
BRYON SKINNER, am not going to say you that are misinformed, but dam, you will understand am upset with you, first never ever ever ASSUME ANYTHING when it comes to the U.S. ARMY. NO am NOT AIRBORNE, I WAS SAPPER LDR, my army is currently going thru a few change’s.I KNOW this may be hard for you. so don’t pass judgement on my army or the usmc. as for the 82nd abn div.there will always be a need for the 82nd, there will always be a need for one or two heavy amror div. take note the u.s.m.c. will always be here you may die but the u.s.m.c. will still be here.when everything goes to dookey. it will be yhe U.S.M.C. BACK BY THE 82nd & 101st then armor.so deal with reality life suck move on.
Good Evening Ray,
Yes sir and don’t forget the Horse Cavalry either they will be there too. In formation and ready for review on “Fiddlers Green”.
But just in case you haven’t gotten the word, since Vietnam the 101st. was reflagged as an Air Assault Division, no jump pay if your not in an Airborne Battalion, just like in the 2ed. Infantry Division. That’s a fancy name for Light Infantry by the way.
Military formations and organizations are not the result of some “Intelligent Design” but are institutions created by man.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
why not just shoot missiles from the U.S. and have them hit specific targets anywhere around the world?
There’s no more real face to face combat anymore. You can win a war without even sending a single soldier abroad.
Who saids this will be the exact vehicle they’ll used? Whos saids that the Marines are obsolite?
Why not a troop-ferrying space ship that uses a nuclear reactor to super heat the air, which manipulates the exhauste for an exact re-entry? Jet planes do that all the time! the ship can be catapulted into space by a super rail canon. this is completely feasible! and a couple of pilots then return the ship on its own power to a specially designed aircraft carrier; with or without the platoon/squad. such a ship would be wedge shape and flat, able to carrier hundreds of civilians on its upper surface to safty in times of trouble. I say Go For It Leathernecks!
*IF* we don’t bother to investigate the `tech-no-golly’ then we will *never* know if it will or won’t work. And if we don’t know either way then we won’t have any idea of any other ways to go *except* the old tired out ways. Declaiming that this is all `blue sky dreaming’ and `it won’t work’ without *any* real reasons other than `it hasn’t been tried’ is a load of fetid dingo’s kidneys. If mankind had always lived that way we’d all still be fighting with stone knives, wearing bearskins, dying at about 30 – 35 years of age, and making true the saying that “life is short, nasty, and brutish”.
Personally I feel that it is time for the Marines to have a shot at seeing what can be done. My bet is on them showing everyone else how to do it by actually doing it. They definitely *cannot* do any worse than any of the others have done and most likely will do a whole hell of a lot better than the whole lot before them combined!
Doleo ergo sum,
Halfpint
I am all for national defense but I wonder how this thing is going to land in a combat zone. Then, how are they going to fly it back home?
I think it’s a great idea. Now all we need are Spartan cyborg warriors.
Forget nuking the sitet from orbit, just build a Death Star! (And don’t forget to shield the thermal exhaust ports – can’t have any Al-Qaeda snubby jocks dropping proton torpedoes into the reactor core!)
Oh, by the way, anonymous . . . Projects SPARTAN-II and MJOLNIR may not be so far off:
DARPA Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation (EHPA) Project: http://www.darpa.mil/dso/thrust/matdev/ehpa.htm
Improving Warfighter Information Intake (also known as Augmented Cognition or Project Braincap): http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001747.html
Here’s the order of deployment, during just about any combat situation;
1. Special Forces gets deployed to soften targets and/or do reconaissance
2. Just after the SF, or with the SF if they need brute force to back it up is the *drumroll please* Marines. They do the hard work, they start the REAL action, and they get killed. A lot. It sucks to be a Marine…
3. The Army Infantry and everything else goes in to pretty much do the clean up work.
The Marines ( and Im saying this as a former Army Infantryman) should and probably will be the only branch of military we have in the future (the games and movies weren’t just winging it) because Marines do one thing that the Airforce, the Army, and the Navy DONT do, and thats fight on multiple terrains. Army likes dirt, Airforce likes air, and Navy likes water. Marines get deployed from land, air, and sea and are trained accordingly. What you see in the Marines now is likely the prototype for Americas future military.
Ok, I see eveyone talking about leaving a division in space. That would be nice, BUT they would always have to be working out while in space. Always taking vitamins and other pills. Hint… no gravity makes the bones weak and when the bones go down so does the imune system.
Then you will have some that can not retain their food because they can’t hack the no gravity. Then you are going to have some fool say “Hey check this out”, and push a button that hes not suppose to push.
Just like with all the new toys that the military is coming out with, you have to weigh the pros and cons.
Just like the orbital drop troops in the game Halo 2
byron you need to get youre fact’s straight. first you hinted at 2nd Infn div. I was 2nd AD FWD. in my day when a CBT. ENGR said he was SAPPER LDR. PEOPLE SHUT UP AND LISTEN. in my day the 101st had helos and a diz/ABN drop eleament. so if you aint from my time line shut up and listen you my just learn something. another thing don’t mess with the u.s.m.c.. Isail with the msc now so i can see a need to insert small force’s around the globe. leave the all that space above and beyond stuff in youre mind cuzz only the marine’s are fit for that crap. plus there are the health issue’s. plus everything always filter down to the civ. side of the house. do we need such tech. yes . also if the army can’t or wont learn from the marine’s then shame on them.
Good Evening Ray,
I was an 11B in Vietnam and the Platoon I was serving with EARNED a PUC. Yearly I attend a Regmental reunion where bull Sh**ers like you don’t bother to attend. Only Combat Veterans show up.
If I recall the 2AD last saw Combat in 1945 and not again till 1991. It appears that combat is something your are very unfamiluar with by personal experience.
Your right I’m not from your time, I’ve been in Combat.
As for messing with the U.S.M.C. all I posted were the facts. If you read Military.com regularly they are all there. Ray you and many of the others here are like President Bush the week before Hurricane Katrina, nobody told them what was comming. Well I’m telling all who want to hear. If all of you want a U.S.M.C. in the future stop blameing the messenger and make the decision makers address these issues.
To Cpl. Maddem, congrats on your service but watch that REMF stuff the only ones who use that phrase are the REMF’s. The guy’s who have been in the sh** really don’t give a f***.
About the Marines going into the history books do something about it Marines instead of blowing smoke out your six’s.
Any of you who can read and took the time will find that the Marines are still using M-16A2′s for train fire and are going back to an easier scoreing system so the scores will look better.
This means that the new Pvt’s. comming to the fleet can’t shoot. I would think that any of you real Marine combat veterans out there would find this unaccaptable.
Second rate Marines are not going to solve the Corps problems.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
“Stewart’s Platoon”
With a plane that can drop a squad of Recon Marines anywhere in the world in two hours, we would boost our capabilities dramatically in several areas:
1.) Faster response to intelligence reports.
Assuming, of course, that some jackass isn’t sitting on them. Terrorists move a helluva lot faster than a Soviet armored division, and we have to up our speed to beat theirs. Imagine we recieve a report that our good buddy Osama is meeting with Chechens in Azerbaijan, or some other godforsaken hellhole. We can have people very near said hellhole in two hours instead of eight or ten. In eight hours, Osama is exfiltrating dressed like a woman or hidden in some truck. In two, he’s still swapping Jihad stories with the butchers of Beslan.
2.) Getting there first.
Imagine a downed satelite in the middle of the Brazillian rainforest or the Sahara. If we can get there in two hours, chances are we can get there before our enemies/snoopy friends. Then, hopefully, the Marines can hold the territory until they can be extracted or reinforced.
3.) Speedy intervention in dangerous situations.
There is great potential for rescuing downed pilots, embassies under attack, etc. We can’t deliver a whole Airborne division with these things, but for most of these situations, a platoon of Marines is almost as good.
All of this assumes that the ships and crew-capsules are stealthy enough to get to their targets, that we can secure appropriate diplomatic clearences and that we have enough information to plan and execute a strike in this short a time. This plane is not the perfect solution, but it’s a darn sight better than having to pre-position men and equipment everywhere in the world.
Anyway, if anybody can use something like this, it’ll be the world’s most mobile and deadly fighting force, the USMC.
ROFL
Set phaser to stun
woooot! yeah go Marines!!!
I heard there is a temple hidden beneath the ice in South Pole. Send em in quick!
While at it, there are a couple of thick jungle canopied habitions of downed UFOs and mysterious buildings in the Amazon. No way one can hike up to there.
Go Marines Go!!! and dont forget to get archeologist Indiana Jones along and yer Laura Croft games cds.:-P
Hi bryon, before you go calling someone a bullsh-tter first you owe me a apolgy cuz i aint no bullsh-tter when it comes to my time in germany it was the best anybody who remenber me will tellyou i was therefrom from 1984 thru1985 two never said i saw any combat you act like killing somebody make’s you specail!!! it doesn’t just different thats all. i did my time left but it wasnt a mistake to join the army my mistake was getting out. as for now i sail on the U.S.N.S GUADALUPE T-AO-200. I’VE BEEN WITH THE U.S.N.–M.S.C. FOR 5 YEARS. I WAS BORN A NAVY BRAT.MY WHOLE LIFE BEEN LIVEING THE DREAM. I SEEN MORE, EXPERIENCE MORE IN THESE LAST 5 YEARS SAILING ON AMMO, AFS, PLUS THE U.S.N.S COMFORT.SO IF THAT MEANS THE ONLY PERSON I’VE EVER TRUELY HARMED WAS THAT DRUGGIE WHO THOUGHT I WAS A COP. I HAD TO DEFEND MYSELF WITH DEADLY FORCE. HE DIED IN MY ARMS. AM NOT SPECIAL JUST DIFFERNT THEN SO BE IT. I THANK GOD FOR SFC.FORSTER FOR TEACHING ME HAND TO HAND. AS FOR MY LAST UNIT 820TH ENGR CBT CORP. USAR. GO AHEAD. IF YOU REALY WENT TO THE NAM LIKE MY DAD THEN GOD BLESS. GOTTO GO MY GHENG’S CALLING MY NAME
Just returned from Ft. Miley, what a joke. Vets screwed again don’t waste your time. Byron, all vets are truly equal. I was last platoon to train with M-14 in USMC. It was a rifle. I hated the M-16′s. Swung with the Wing and it was worse than being a grunt. My heart really goes out to all the vets active and inactive in a land that truly does not appreciate them. We are our own best company; one of the finest soldiers I ever met was in the Army.
Semper Fi
….been watching for awhile now, and I find your sense of credibilty is about to break.
First of all if you know half as much as you think, then you would know that the Marine Corps was founded before the United States of America
United States Marine Corps, U.S. military corps that forms a separate service >>>within the U.S. Dept. of the Navy<<<. The Commandant of the Marine Corps is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. During conflicts, the Corps is charged with conducting all land operations essential to the successful prosecution of a naval campaign; during peacetime, its top priority is combat readiness. Famous for its esprit de corps, the Corps emphasizes physical fitness and intensive training. In 1775, the Continental Congress created two federal battalions of marines to serve as naval infantry. In 1798, the United States Marine Corps was established and placed under the control of the Secretary of the Navy. Marines have participated in every major war, especially the Mexican War; World War I; World War II; the Korean War; and the Vietnam War. They have developed expertise in counterinsurgency and guerrilla warfare, as well as in commando operations and amphibious warfare. Marine units are self-sufficient, with their own tanks and other armor, artillery, and air forces.
Now lets look at the facts.
1) If The Marine Corps was not a department of the Navy then then you may be able to look at it’s budget independently and among other branches of the United States Military. howevr because it isn’t your point of the Marine Corps being the most costly is null. In actuality the operating budget of the United States Marine Corps is appx. 1/4 o fthe total operating budget of the Department of the Navy.
2)Your point about the M16A2 is null and void as well.
The Marine Corps has and forever will prove to show that it can do more with less. We having been forever been the DRMO for what the Army beleive to be old weapons systems. When I left the Marine Corps it was just begining to receive the M240g, yes in 1998 we were still using M60(Echos). The M4 Carbine was appx 4yrs on the horizon as for the Reservists which you call an economical budget, They were just receiving M16A2′s yea reservists were in Desert Storm with M16A1′s buddy. Now you wanna talk Tanks? I saw with my own eyes Marines driving M16A1′s not A2′s. It’s something that people of our resiliance are capable of dealing with. We don’t sleep with mommy at night, we protect her ass.
As your mom said come strong or don’t come! By the way where are your “Records” I find it hard to beleive that you are a true Veteran, rather one hiding behind others actions in your hope to become recognized.
Maybe it’s because I am a Marine that I havn’t ever met another person of the armed forces that doesn’t hold a high degree of respect for the Marine corps. I have never met one that beleives that the Marine Corps is a defunct service. We clear the beach, airfield, and towns, allow you to plant your base of operations and then we come back and bail your ass’ out when you can’t hold the lines. Which is where most of our casualties come from. Your political psycho-babble just shows your ignorance, If half the men read this you would have a platoon at your door…..Luckily for you they are keeping you safe.
Semper Fi
If only ol’ Bobby Heinlein were here today… Between air-express Marines and the powered exoskeletons DARPA is funding, we have the seeds of real cap troopers.
I for one see two problems here; one is combat power and the other is safe delivery.
The MI in Starship Troopers were feasible because each man had the firepower and suriviability of an MBT combined with high mobility, the likes of which I’ve only seen in video games.
And here we’re talking about sending a bunch of fragile, unarmored men down whose heaviest weapon *might* be an antitank rocket.
We also have to deal with the fact that this system is going to be exremely vulnerable in the “delivery” phase- between atmospheric reentry and hitting ground, those Marines are going to be vulnerable in ways that make me shudder. They either come down like meteors, leaving an IR signature you couldn’t miss, and brake the last mile with ‘chutes (and spend the next few minutes swinging under those canopies, waiting for AAA and every peasant with a rifle to notice them) or else they use an airframe to “glide” down as the Space Shuttle did. Either way, they’re just as vulnerable as a conventional air insertion.
Oh, may I remind the audience how often our launches (manned and otherwise) are cancelled becaue of weather or minor glitches? Yet this is to be a rapid reaction force.
So- the designers need to contend with overall economy, vulnerability the “drop pod”, reliability of our launch systems, support and supply problems (we don’t have orbital bombardments yet!) and overall delivery precision. (I see a tradeoff between survivability and precision.)
It’s a useful concept; we need to develop the hell out of it for it to be militarily useful.
practically this is surely way in the future. better spend the US govt’s money reducing emmisions to slow global warming……..rather than buying up other countries pollution allowances
we need to wise up otherwise there wont be much of a future!
byron, you don’t deserve to live in this great nation, if you even deserve to breath at all. Your disrespect for the United States Marine Corps is completely unacceptable. It is due to the brave soldiers that travel the great passage of the Marine Corps that even gives you the right to say what you will and show your disgusting opinion toward them.
hey, this aint about the US Marines Corp. Its AN ALL NEW DIVISION…so drop the space dreams of you sea and landlubbers and spare us the USMC angst.
Its gonna be called US Space Marines Division with a new history and tradition to create, new miltary funding and package. So dont link sempi fi with USSMD!….the new motto’s gonna be ‘WE SAW, WE DROPPED AND WE CONQUERED!’ :-p
And how we gonna fund this division?…easy…raise taxes of every American citizen by 2 dollars a year and make sure the target foreign nation’s gold bullion is the first drop of visit. Raid em and blame it on terrorists or the anarchist. In times of peace, send em to the moon with a shovel instead of a rifle and dig some moondust for sale on earth!
The Marine Corps is where the hardest of the hard go, plain and simple.
I think you are mistaking them for the SAS and the even harder SBS – both of which would have any of your marines fro breakfast and not break a sweat.
Bryon Skinner, I think this is an arguement that you aren’t going to win, especially not with future, current, and retired members of the USMC. You have exercised your freedom of speech to state your opinion that the Marines are no longer needed. In turn, these Marines, along with members of the other services, have exercised their own freedom of speech to, in essence, tell you to go sodomize yourself.
I can see why they would respond this way; because you are treating them like nothing more than mere tools: you use them and then cast them away. These people, and people they know, have fought, bled and died in order to protect your right to say your opinion. Then you come along and tell them that they are no longer needed. It is a response that every member of the military abhors, but probably expects from the public. You should remember, even if you are retired military, that “good people are able to sleep soundly at night, because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” You should also remember that “just because you believe something is true, doesn’t make it true.”
Marines, you remember, “just because something is true, doesn’t mean you have to believe it is.” IF the USMC is destined to be disbanded and forgotten (which I do NOT think that it is), you will be able to look back and remember that you are, and always will be, one of “The Few, The Proud.” You will be able to remember that you were part of the greatest fighting force on the planet.
In regards to this idea, I believe that if this technology is feasible, we should go for it. To be able to deploy forces anywhere in the world within 2-4 hours, compared to the current “within 48 hours,” would be simply astounding. Also, I vote that the Marines recieve priority for this system, seeing as how that is their mission: to provide a quick reaction force capable of deploying anywhere on the planet. The other services would certainly benefit from this, but the Marines would the most. Have the Marines mobilize like this, and then have the Army reinforce them within a week via naval landings and C-5s or C-17s.
As for myself, I do not believe, nor hope, that the Marines are unneeded. In fact, I would say that they are needed now more than ever. I hold all Marines, and what they do, in the utmost awe, and I plan on making every effort to prove myself worthy to join this elite group of warriors. That is, of course, once I finish high school.
To my (hopefully) future brothers- and sisters-in-arms: Keep up the good work!
I wonder what Games Workshop would have to say about all of this.
Games Workshop might actually make a profit by charging the military royalties every time they made a drop or used the term “space marine”…
I am far from being a military expert, but it seems that being able to respond so quickly would have enormous political benefits (Being able to respond to a situation with ‘conventional’ forces within one news cycle, for example).
If you can deploy men from space, then you can also deploy loitering HARM missiles, UAVs and UCAVs in the same way; although of course men would be able perform subtle and discreet missions in a way that no UCAV could. So there are plenty of military possibilities for such a ‘work-horse’ heavy-lift ICBM & reentry system.
I am pretty sure this system violates some nonproliferation treaty or other though, not to mention the HUGE amount of money it will cost.
But then again, who cares? Hey, I am not a US taxpayer, so go ahead, it ain’t my money you are spending, and I still get to watch the kick-ass cool videos of US space marines on the news in a few years time.
there are treaties banning the use of loitering orbit weapons. nothing about loitering orbit troops though.
This is a lovely, utterly impossible idea. At $5,000-$10,000 per lb to orbit, assuming a Marine is 300 lbs with gear (it wouldn’t surprise me if it were higher), that’s $1.5 to $3.0 million per Marine per launch. Then tack on the fact that landing a spacecraft is hardly precise, spacecraft are fragile (let’s hope no one tries to shoot at it while it’s landing), launches can take a substantial amount of time to prepare, and no one has ever tried to build a vehicle that could do anything remotely like this….well, let’s just say the Marines are getting a bit ahead of themselves
Given what the world thought of people jumping out of airplanes in mass, this is not as out of the question as one may think.
One hundred years ago, we finally got off the ground. Fifty years ago, we broke the sound barrier. Just in the 50′s (somehow) the barrier was pushed to speeds we are just now coming to grips with to exceed. But the job of the USMC is to take the battle to the enemy and kick his butt. Even if the times have changed, the same job is asked of these young men. Every avenue available should be used to give these men the necessary to respond to ever growing and sophisticated enemy. Time is at a premium now and it is time we give that weapon to the fighting man. Semper Fi and on earth, the sea, and air (including space): GET ER DONE!
How about we spend tax-payer money on something a little bit more feasible. Perhaps some mil-tech that won't require 20 years of funding before it even becomes *feasible*.
Let the private sector and NASA do some grunt work on sub-orbital launches for a decade before the military gets involved. After all the military is much better at taking existing technology and turning it to military applications.
Also, a response time of 2 hours is a pipe-dream except in very very specific situations. The first time a President inserted an American military force into a foreign nation within a 2 hour period without even consulting members of congress…well, that mission better come off as a spectacular success otherwise somebody just comitted political suicide.
It was more than just 2 hours maybe, but I think the killing of Bin Laden was just such a "spectacular success." A secretive and quick insertion.
In all honesty, this seems most useful for securing downed vital intelligence assets that could fall into enemy hands if not recovered quickly. I doubt this system would ever be used all on it's own as well. A fast insertion of a decisive surgical strike team without a guaranteed extraction route would more than likely be followed by a support force that would, among other things, provide that extraction when necessary. I could also see this being used in a scenario similar to the one we used to take out Bin Laden, but I think it will take a while before the orbital insertion will be easier than a more standard stealth insertion like the we used, and even that didn't go off without a hitch…. And if it hadn't worked, I don't think it would have been political suicide, it would have been a failed attempt with some fallout, but isn't it worse to have a shot and NOT take it?
“you secure that sh_t, Hudson!”
Great… put some more useless holes in our atmosphere..
If the job of art is to predict reality, then “Starship Troopers” is art :)
This reminds me of the gliders in the ETO on
D-Day, only more hi-tech. It’s a neat idea, but the D-Day gliders turned out to be dangerous, fragile, too heavy, unwieldy, and easily thwarted by stringing cables and felling trees in their paths. Many soldiers were killed before ever getting on the ground, or were killed by slamming into the ground upon attempting to land. How about a space “helicopter” with wings and retractable blades instead?
There’s reports of an Al-Queda base on LV-426 with possible xenomorph involvement.
Go get ‘em!
P.S. Dropships 4tw
Adeptus Astartes FTW
I believe I remember a treaty which bans all weapons in space, which the US will have to break in order to do this…
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
A combo of Marine Corps, NASA and the United States Air Force should head this domain. NASA because they have a lot of experience in the space field. USMC for the kick@$$ fighting force, and the USAF for the Airospace domain, it seems they should help in this idea.
While on active duty and a student at the Naval War College, I submitted a paper called, “Marines in Space.” I was laughed at by all the Marine students and the senior Marine there. The civilian professors loved the paper! Just goes to demonstrate that nothing is impossible!
At long last, the dream is slowly realized. I’ve believed in the concept of the “Extraplanetary Marine Force” of the U.S.M.C. since I saw them deploy in the James Bond movie “Moonraker”. Sadly, with the way politics is now, we may not see fruition until after we are gone. My hope is that my grandchildren will live to see and perhaps participate in the military conquest of space.
And for you P.C. “Flower-Children” out there, suck it up. It’s going to happen, and the United States of America is leading the way!
I agree with SGT. Jacobsen. It would be awsome to be apart of a space crew for the Marines.
“Remember your training, and you will prevail!”
We’re creeping into Airborn Territory here.
Some care to tell me how they will get out…great idea to get in but not so good for getting out….
Look ….. politics aside. How about a little shred of fiscal responsibility..let’s call it fiscal reality here. A “small squad of Marines.” Is that ….. 15 or 20 troops ? What are the chances of them being lost to an accident in this contraption ? And bejeezus…what is this thing going to cost per unit ???? To get them there a few hours faster than if by C-17 ?
Why doesn’t the Navy develop a “Cargo” version of the venerable shipboard S-2 Viking ? You have your Marines on the aircraft carrier….you take ‘em up in the C-Viking and pop them out into the airstream at 20,000 feet above the LZ. At infintesimal cost compared to the space boondoggle. However you’ve gotta like the movie tie-in to the Aliens series.
Yeah, thats what im talking about. Hopefully some aliens will try and invade and we can have some interstella war on, unless they are like the aliens out of star trek then i will have to bone them instead….
All i know if the future is above where the eagles fly then i have to be part of it
hey send the airborn they suposed to be surounded son, yeah and what about the deep sea, maybee theres some sort of intergallactic space shark why not send the marines to investergate…launch thunderbird 4
Byron Skinner! You must be ex Army as the saying goes, not former, like Marines, and or you are a complete idiot! The Army has been trying for decades to get rid of the Corps, but as usual, the Corps is always called upon to really get the job done. The Army is just a huge conglomeration of bureaucrats who once in a while prove their worth. The Army doesn’t have total coordinated orchestrated package like the Corps! Just like they said Leonardo Divinci was a fool to experiment with flying, you are a fool to ignore what reality will come regardless of how far fetched the ideas are.
I don’t get the ‘chuckle’ bit.
Seems like a logical progression to me.
Add a capability to your military you don’t yet have.
Outstanding.
Think of the war against Al Qaeda. Decapitation is the way, but Intel gets real old real fast.
The ability to send a snatch squad anywhere in the world, quick and clear, is an ability the US needs but doesn’t have.
Makes sense.
Not that the USMC aren’t proposing this primarily coz of the ‘wheeeeeeeeeeeee’ factor, but there you go ;D
I think you clowns need to get out more!
omg it takes 2 hours for the troops to arrive , and thats not reliable
This is not only a logical prgression, it’s a kick ass concept! but it would take a bunch of training for the force recon contingient within socom. Damn. this is a new level of training. Some Force Recon Marines would have airborne wings AND astronaut wings. that would look so bad ass, no one would get in their way.
Forget HAHO and HALO… this is being shot up in a reusable canister into space at high speed only to fall back down a few minutes later at equally high speed (controlled by gps to exactly where they need to be)! Hopefully they can cover this capsule with a stealth coating… or make it appear as if it was a wayward meteorite on radar. we wouldn’t want folks knowing we came in unannounced! we could be in an out without warning anywhere any time! They could drop in from space, secure the target and either hump out or get picked up (the stealth would be eliminated at this point, but it would be too late for the badguys by this time).
After it’s proved by the recon boys, i’m sure the delta guys, seals, and parajumpers will get in on the act. could you imagine? a pilot goes down in the central asia far away from any base, and we shoot a rocket full a parajumpers from texas to pick him up in just 2 hours? catch 22 no more! damn.
or we find bin laden in some bar somehwere in some unreachable mountain hideaway… well delta boys drop in like death from above.
this concept is golden, if expensive…
Feasible, Fundable, and Fun….Just the thing for the Corps. This idea is not that far fetched. I only see one problem: Geneva Convention wussies (The Marines are weapons, are they not?) getting antsy on the Arms in Space treaty.
Something else to consider: The Corps dreams it up, builds it, has success. Instantly, some US Army (Probably Special Forces before the pukes) unit tries it, unqualified and untrained, and gets like 15 guys killed. The project gets scrapped.
KEEP IT WITH THE ONES WHO PLANNED IT, AND TRAIN THEM UP ON IT.
To the attack of “hope someone doesn’t shoot at it”… High temperature superalloys. Say, titanium outer shell, with enough Kevlar inside to stop a 25mm autocannon round. The only reason stuff like this is “impossible” is because idiot politicians and unintelligent civilians (myself sometimes) decide that everything has to make money within the next 5 microseconds, and it has to be 60 digit payback. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! YOU CANNOT PUT A PRICE ON PROTECTING THE NATION WE LOVE!
Semper Fi,
Cianan JT Puckett (Hopefully joining the ranks of the USMC soon)
I believe that it will be the best thing for all MARINES. It will give them a chance to show the world and every other idiot, “that when you play with fire, you will get burned.” People “need” to respect the MARINES and everything that they do for us. I say,”why not give them everything that they want.” When they complete this new journey,I hope every person that chuckles or laughs,will think about weather or not they are worthy of the MARINES to protect them. I believe in everything that the MARINES do and stand for. If it were not for them, we would have lost alot of battles. I say that they are the best thing that has ever happened to this country. For any body that does not like the fact of what they do, try being in there shoes and dying if need be for this country and allowing us to live free and peaceful at night knowing that they are there watching over us so we dont have to. Yes, I love the MARINES and will join shortly myself. I believe every body needs to fight for them to succeed in gaining the space program.
What happens if an hour after lift off you realise the mission is compromised and the LZ is a bust? Have you just ballistically deployed a bunch of marines on a one way trip to shit city?
Outstanding, just freaking Oustanding. A new capability for a quick strike. Of course this capability sould fall under the preview of the Corps, it would just be an extension or improvement on the Corps’ current reapid deployment capabilities. Of course it would also have applications for the air farce’s PJ’s and for delta. The ability to insert a small force anywhere on the globe in under three or four hours instead of days, the implications boggle the mind. And yes I’m another former jarhead, that don’t mean that I am prejudice toward the Corps on a project like this. The implications for a capability like this are just too great to think about, much less to enumerate in less that two or three hundred pages.
You marines take yourselves way to seriously.
Your giving yourself a bad image to the rest of the world :P
i dont know anything about the differences between the army and the marines in the USA
but i do know that in any defence force, all different corps, regiments,air forces, navies, armies they all rely on each other to get sucsess
maybe if you blokes did that Iraq wouldve been an easier campaign.
hahaha and dont get me started on Mc Arthur in the phillipines
I see comments from folks who can’t spell or form a complete sentence.
Why would anyone take them seriously?
For Byron:
There are only two kinds of people,
Marines and those who want to be.
I think this project is gonna EPIC FAIL now, Space Marines are no match for the the Credit Crunch! Told them they should just make Space Marine power armor and bolters instead..
i am looking for my 214 records and telephone number
What is this I dont’ even
Has anyone ever really even want to do look more like?
Sow how does one recover one’s multi-million dollar spaceship after firing it deep into enemy territory, I wonder?
Just a thought
LOL to all those who commented about Army Airborne. The USARMY forgot how to jump off a plane after WW2. Space is considered the “vast sea of space” which the marines are used for landings on the sea, hence its our territory. Show me some Army guy who would be stupid enough to try this. They would not do it unless they were promised a $50K bonus. In the marines some new recruit would be suckered by the recruiter into thinking he would be a admin guy or Motor T and then sent to this by the non-ob MOS contract. The Marines are the Best, the dumbest at times, and the best for this new technology. OOORAH
maybe some people in the armed forces should stop playing Halo:ODST.
NASA can’t keep up a steady program for commercial flights where bigger amounts of money are being shelled out for commercial interests -than the measly government funds for defence- and they think you can do this routinely? keep on dreamnig for another 20 yrs…
one last thing :
if the u.s. wants to protect their nation, they a) should stop poking their noses into other nations’ business just to make a buck out of it,
b)-in relation to a)- should be more careful what allies they choose because your friend today can be your foe tommorow and vice versa.
then you won’t need space marines, rockets, aliens or whatever
Almost as funny as Reed dé Buch's Spacemarine Jones and the Politburo http://reeddebuch.blogspot.com/2010/06/space-mari…
Man they got that ideah from halo you wanna bet haha but it is a good play cudoes to the marines ooh rah