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Home » Ships and Subs » Kidding Around

Kidding Around

It’s as if the U.S. Navy added 30 destroy­ers in three years. That’s how much the Pentagon is beef­ing up Tawain’s fleet, with two pairs of retired Kidd-​​class anti-​​air destroy­ers. The first set was trans­ferred on Oct. 29. The sec­ond pair will be handed over in 2007.
Kidd.jpgThe Kidds were retired by the U.S. Navy in the mid-​​1990s and pur­chased by Taiwan in 2001. With the advent of the Arleigh Burke class armed with Aegis radar, Vertical Launch System for SM-​​2 mis­siles, the rail-​​launcher-​​armed Kidds became redun­dant, despite being less than 20 years old when retired.
At 9,000 tons dis­place­ment, the Kidds will increase by one-​​third the ton­nage of Taiwans major sur­face com­bat­ant force. (Lately the U.S. has been decreas­ing its sur­face fleet by as many as ten hulls and tens of thou­sands of tons per year.)
Besides sig­nif­i­cantly bulk­ing up Taiwans navy, the Kidds will give the force its first mod­ern air-​​defense capa­bil­ity and should prove a sig­nif­i­cant deter­rent against Chinas largely-​​outdated sur­face fleet, which depends heav­ily on land-​​based air cover. The Kidd deal has under­stand­ably angered China. While many in the U.S. are eager to tout China as the next super­power and a naval rival, cooler heads point out that China is heav­ily depen­dent on mar­itime trade and energy imports and that its naval mod­ern­iza­tion is largely intended to secure sea lines of com­mu­ni­ca­tion and to coun­ter­bal­ance Indian intru­sion into regional waters. Besides, on the seas China is still a gen­er­a­tion behind the U.S. and years behind Taiwan. The Kidds only extend that dis­par­ity.
– David Axe

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October 31st, 2005 | Ships and Subs | 173912 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2005/10/31/kidding-around/Kidding+Around2005-10-31+21%3A23%3A05wonk You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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  1. J. Brenner says:
    October 31, 2005 at 5:07 pm

    Have PRC threats to invade Taiwan “under­stand­ably” angered the Taiwanese?

    Reply
  2. David Axe says:
    October 31, 2005 at 5:12 pm

    J. Brenner,
    I would hate to proved wrong on this point, since it would mean the deaths of thou­sands of peo­ple, but I tend to believe that China’s inva­sion rhetoric is just rhetoric. Every day eco­nomic and cul­tural ties between Taiwan and China are stronger. And despite its mod­ern­iza­tion, China remains inca­pable of mount­ing an inva­sion of Taiwan. Such an oper­a­tion demands amphibi­ous and aer­ial capa­bil­i­ties China lacks. Consider that China’s only effec­tive air­craft are fewer than 200 Su-​​27s, and that it has NO large-​​deck amphibi­ous ships.

    Reply
  3. JohnWaverly says:
    October 31, 2005 at 5:28 pm

    I’ve been liv­ing in China for four years now, and I per­son­ally believe it is not rhetoric at all. Furthermore, I think the com­mon per­cep­tion by the US and some Taiwanese that it is just hot air is going to cost alot of inno­cent peo­ple their lives.
    The fact is, although they’re eco­nom­i­cally grow­ing closer, they’re cul­tually grow­ing far­ther apart, espe­cially the younger gen­er­a­tions.
    The CPC would sac­ri­fice what­ever they had to for Taiwan, even if it means mak­ings China a pariah for a cou­ple of years until it blows over, which it will.

    Reply
  4. Ken Talton says:
    October 31, 2005 at 5:38 pm

    Given that China wants to sieze Taiwan I imag­ine thay are pissed.
    I do think that China is likely over­ated as an emerg­ing super­power, but giv­ing the Taiwanese a help­ing hand in pre­serv­ing their inde­pen­dence seems to be a good rather than a bad thing.
    While the goals listed in the arti­cle are all accu­rate, it does omit one big­gie, invad­ing Taiwan. That said, increas­ing the dis­par­ity would seem to be not really a bad thing.

    Reply
  5. Dfens says:
    October 31, 2005 at 7:25 pm

    Yeah, look at how we won WW2. It was our supe­rior man­u­fac­tur­ing capa­bil­ity that brought us through that one. And look at us now… Oh wait, we’re a ser­vice econ­omy now, in debt to our eye­balls to coun­tries like China. Countries with ser­vice economies get their asses kicked in wars with coun­tries who have man­u­fac­tur­ing economies. Boy, I hope China never devel­ops one of those.

    Reply
  6. Michael Turton says:
    November 1, 2005 at 8:04 am

    I think there’s quite a bit of com­pla­cency about what China can do, accom­pa­nied by under­es­ti­mates of Chinese inten­tions and capa­bil­i­ties. For exam­ple, the num­ber of Su-​​27/​30s given in the com­ments above is incor­rect, the cur­rent fig­ure is nearly twice that, about 380. China now has more mod­ern air­craft than Taiwan does, and many of Taiwan’s ‘mod­ern’ air­craft are the untested IDF.
    This is a chronic topic of dis­cus­sion on the Taiwan blogs. Here and here for a debate between myself and MeiZhongTai, who blogs on Taiwan defense issues, over how things will pro­ceed. I also have a spec­u­la­tive China Blitz sce­nario here that is well worth read­ing, with links to other ones.
    Michael
    The fact is that Taiwan’s mil­i­tary is staffed largely by main­lan­ders who may go over to China if it gets troops onto the island. The island’s two mainlander-​​led par­ties are both more or less pro-​​China.

    Reply
  7. J. Brenner says:
    November 1, 2005 at 1:49 pm

    David Axe,
    Thank you for your well con­sid­ered response. I also hope that you are not mis­taken, how­ever, I fear that you might well be. I do not ques­tion that the Chinese are capa­ble of con­sid­er­able empty rhetoric, unfor­tu­nately, they have in recent years cho­sen to increase this rhetoric in response polit­i­cal devel­op­ments in Taiwan. In mak­ing increas­ingly loud threats, the Chinese have placed them­selves in a posi­tion where they even­tu­ally must either act or be seen as inef­fec­tual. It is dif­fi­cult to believe that in mak­ing such threats the main­land is pri­mar­ily moti­vated by a desire to dis­suade Taiwanese vot­ers or politi­cians from declar­ing inde­pen­dence — even­tu­ally, if the cur­rent sit­u­a­tion con­tin­ues, the Taiwanese will make such a dec­la­ra­tion. Rather, I believe that the PRC is mak­ing explicit a threat that they will carry out at a time of their own choos­ing: think Korea 1950.
    Exacerbating this moti­va­tion is the fact that it has been some time since the Chinese have expe­ri­enced the dele­te­ri­ous effects of war — Vietnam in the late 1970s. Certainly there must have emerged lead­ers in the PRC mil­i­tary who are eager to demon­strate that they are capa­ble of bet­ter plan­ning and exe­cu­tion than was demon­strated in the badly bun­gled Vietnam oper­a­tion. An eco­nomic down­turn, which must afflict the PRC even­tu­ally, might well increase the attrac­tive­ness of such a cam­paign as it would pro­vide the party with the means to jus­tify its lead­er­ship to a dis­sat­is­fied pop­u­la­tion.
    Your points regard­ing the tech­ni­cal and mate­r­ial lim­i­ta­tions on the Chinese mil­i­tary are well taken. However, China has assets that could mit­i­gate these lim­i­ta­tions. For instance, China might make lim­ited use of its nuclear weapons, or, might threaten the use of such weapons in order to dis­cour­age active resis­tance by cer­tain fac­tions and indi­vid­u­als within the Taiwanese mil­i­tary, at least a por­tion of whose mem­ber­ship either sym­pa­thetic to the PRC call for uni­fi­ca­tion, or, believe that resis­tance is futile (sen­ti­ments that were alluded to by another reader). In addi­tion, China pos­sesses the ves­ti­gial insti­tu­tions and incli­na­tions nec­es­sary for the type of rev­o­lu­tion­ary soci­etal mobi­liza­tion war­fare that shocked the U.S. in both Korea and Vietnam. In the con­text of an inva­sion of Taiwan, such war­fare might take the form of “flood­ing the zone” with an inva­sion fleet con­sist­ing of thou­sands of troop laden fish­ing boats. All in all, I think that the risk of a force­ble attempt by the PRC to reunite Tawian with greater China is a tan­gi­ble con­cern that is not to be writ­ten off as the pipe dream of pen­ta­gon plan­ners search­ing for a new threat. The U.S. must either find ways to deter such an even­tu­al­lity, or, it should have the hon­esty to inform the Taiwanese that they are on their own and there­fore should make the best deal pos­si­ble with the mainland.

    Reply

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