Guys in uniform bitch a lot. Especially when two military groups are tackling related jobs. Handling bombs is no different. The Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) guys think the engineers are constantly interfering in their work. The engineers say the EOD dudes are snobby and too secret squirrel for their own good.
But, around Baghdad at least, the group causing the most friction seems to be the Pentagon’s “Joint IED Defeat Task Force.” While EOD techs have to scrounge around to buy their own belts, the Task Force has a billion dollar budget. And while bomb squadders spend a year in training, I saw completely green members of the Task Force wandering around bomb sites, picking stuff up at random. The engineers and the EOD techs took bets on whether or not they’d survive their tours of duty.
Not that the Task Force folks had much nice to say about the bomb squads. “EOD has it pretty easy,” one member told me.
For most soldiers in Iraq, the Task Force’s main contribution was “5-and-25.” It’s a mantra which means that soldiers should check 5 meters around their vehicles when they first get out, and then do a 25 meter sweep after that.
Behind the scenes, and back in the States, the Task Force is also doing a bunch of technology development to try and slow down the seemingly-endless waves of improvised bombs hitting American forces. Several Task Force members have compared the effort to the Manhattan Project. But with the number of explosives on the rise, there’s grumbling in Washington that the Task Force doesnt have the juice or the budget to justify the comparison, the L.A. Times notes. There’s talk of replacing the Task Force, currently headed by a one-star general, with a new group that would have “an active-duty three-star general or admiral, or a retired four-star officer.”
Some military officials complain that the Pentagon has made little progress in getting the White House to pressure agencies such as the CIA, FBI and Department of Energy to devote more resources and full-time personnel to the anti-IED effort. One difficulty they cite is that a one-star general tends to wield little influence in the government hierarchy.
“It’s just amazing how long it takes for the bureaucracy to seriously tackle an issue, when some things should happen lickety-split,” said a second senior Defense official.
THERE’S MORE: It’s Friday, and I’m feeling punchy and reckless. So here’s a pic of me trying to handle an IED leftover.
I always thought it was safer to do the 5 meter search BEFORE I got out of the humvee. But that was just me-my gunner often pointed out that he didn’t have the option.….….
Dan:
I’ll do that. But my recollection from talking to senior officers about this is that American forces has kept pace with the bombers, finding about 40% of the explosives before they go off. But the overall number of bombs has doubled in the past year.
nms
Noah
Thanks. What happens if the number of bombs doubles again as we enter phase III of this war?
I’ve read about many TTPs to defeat IEDs (jammers, backscatter xray, etc.)… Is anyone investigating the cavitation effects on projectiles and powder-based devices caused by ultra-sonic waves? Creating voids would change the energy distribution, making the device less lethal — or would set it off prematurely at a safe distance from our personnel. Any comments?
’Pops’
a quick response network would be effective at catching culprits as long as the enemy was caught in the act therefore look and act on the big city example were people are caught on camera 75 times a day and kill the basterds.
mmmm… Brit Forces have been using a 5 & 20m checks for years. This was done especially after experience in Northern Ireland.. I guess down south in Iraq, its similar.
You always do ya 5m checks.. whenever ya stand still for longer than 2 mins. if there for a longer, 20m checks.. pain in the ass, but the amount of time ya get blown up in training soon sorts that one out!!
essential. I thought you guys were using this too… anyway I’m glad you are now!! But is that the only thing that the “Joint IED Defeat Task Force” has come up with… ???
Oh, forgot to tell you HERO, email me at:
diver5337@yahoo.com
I have not read all the comments yet but excuse the ignorance. I look at the terrorist video’s they take when conducting their attacks on ogrish.com and it seems that they are making mistakes, like getting out of the HMMWV after an IED goes off, then guess what another goes off. I just got back from Iraq and it seems there is no collective knowledge database that everyone can learn from. It should be the duty of every officer or senior NCO to constantly review data and inform troops. Another example, most IED’s are emplaced during rush hour, not after curfew. Does anyone know if the IED taskforce is trying to do this.
I mean we are making mistakes. It is very late at might.
Just a couple of comments on the Joint IED Defeat TF (now Organization or JIEDDO):
* Pictures posted by Noah of the E5 and CPT supposedly of the JIEDDTF are incorrect — those two personnel were not members, regardless what you heard or they told you.
* JIEDDO provides seminars (not briefings) to ALL units from Brigade level down to individual Soldiers and Marines. They provide linked seminars (read: discussions on TTPs, etc.) to corresponding staffs, company leadership and the Commanders and CSMs.
* These seminars are based on the latest TTP from AFG and IZ from members of the JIEDDO who have just returned from theater. They conduct operations with units, CEXC, WIT, etc., and develop briefs/seminars to relay this information to units getting ready to deploy.
* IMO, The problem is that we have ceeded the initiative to the enemy in Iraq/AFG. The insurgents has discovered he has freedom of maneuver to do pretty much what he feels, and emplace IEDs when and where he chooses. We are reactionary, and reacting to his actions instead of taking the offense and causing the insurgent to react to us.
* It is up to the command and Soldier/Marine what they do with this information or if they even listen during the average 3–4 days we spend with each Brigade Combat Team. “You can lead a horse to water …“
* IMO, we have become too predictable and easy to target. Units, particuarly combat service support units executing the majority of the convoys, have a “FOB mentality” and are unwilling to forgo hot chow, internet cafes, and showers, etc., to change how they do buisness. They still think of themselves as “loggies” and their leadership has not driven into their heads they must be warriors and able to fight and defend themselves if/when attacked. Combat arms units have also become complacent in some aspects (not always, nor with all CA units), not occupying and owning their terrain, and taking the initiative from the enemy. Hunting the IED emplacer, bomb maker and cells can be done — and sucessfully so. But it requires a different mindset than “force protection”. However, it is difficult given the numerous OTHER mission sets they are required to execute (CA, MEDCAP, nation building, etc., etc.).
* EOD personnel are the technical experts at rendering IED’s safe. God bless them for what they do. They are responders — not preventers.
* JIEDDO is not EOD — it is a complementary effort. Never intended to compete with or overshadow. However, we can’t just wait until we find an IED to take action — by then it’s too late — it’s been emplaced. JIEDDO is trying to get units to be proactive and take offensive measures to prevent emplacement and not be “victims” if attacked.
* From someone much more intelligent than I: “There is more to counter-IED operations than describing the minutia of explosives detection, and understanding tactical intelligence gathering is more than describing the technical specifications of the latest sensor system.“
* Bottom Line — there are a lot of hard working and dedicated professionals at JIEDDO doing their best to defeat the IED threat. Be careful how one tries to paint the organization
Perhaps someone could be checking out the use of static electricity generators to set off the IED’s at a distance from a convoy, etc. I understand that munitions and fireworks plants go to great lengths to eliminate static electricity which can set the explosives off. I don’t know how large a field could be generated or if outrigger poles or other means could channel the field ahead of the vehicle. For car and suicide bombers an armored gate might be devised through which they would have to pass and which could set off the charge at a location of our choosing. This is more of a research idea, but is not so high tech that it would take years to develop. Since I didn’t see it mentioned among the proposed ideas, here it is.
There is nothing complicated in the issue of the IEDs. Any old, pre Vietnam Special Forces operative can explain how to eliminate this pain to our troops. But no one in the Army or Industry is interested in solving this.
There is a lot of money to be made in contracting, thrashing, travel (collecting frequent flyer bonus miles), going to meetings, and above all researching artificial limbs and manufacturing them. When there is money, nothing will be done. After all, if you solve the problem: that’s it! No more need for funding and travel, no more need for meetings.
If you want to know about me, look for my book on amazon.com.
“The Cognitive Dynamics of Computer Science” by Szabolcs Michael de Gyurky. It will be published by Wiley Interscience and is endorsed by the IEEE. It tells you how to build computer software cost effectively like I did at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory/California Institute of Technology for 25 years. I’m a retired US Army officer with 3 years of combat duty in Vietnam (5th SFG, 101st, MAT I-5, and the 173rd Abn. Bgde.) During my six years of enlisted service (1958–1964), I was the demolitionist engineer on ODA-13, 10th SFG (Abn), 1st SF in Bad Toelz, Germany.
Yes troops, we need not take casualties from IEDs. You only need a few smart guys to solve this problem, who know their jobs.
Mike
My greatest fear of the newer IED Jamming devices, Duke, etc., is that they work at a much higher power output. The folks that sell these say that there is no problem. It takes a set of six frequencies randomly picked from a database of a very wide spectrum. That’s great, you don’t shut down all commo and these things “hop” at about a million times a second. The question no one will answer is, “What is the percentage of unintentional detonations and at what range?“
Let’s say that a cell phone is being used as a triggerind and detonating device. Obviously the would be on the same frequency. One possible scenario is that you are 5 feet away from the IED, while the trigger man is say, 300 meters away. If your output is high enough, and at the natural resonance frequncy of the oscilator (crystal) in the detonating device, guess what, you meet your maker and Ahkmed’s cell phone rings. I don’t believe our troops should be beta testing this kind of stuff without ALL of the data being given to them.
Maybe we should “up-armor” buldozers and send them down the streets staggered like snowplows ahead of convoys. Use the jammers to blow anything on the side streets after the majority of the convoy has passed. Beter yet, do it by sattelite, You could blow them where ever they are hidden and at the time of “manufacture.” That would cause a sharp drop in bombers morale if they never knew when the device may explode…
Just sign me, Old Dinosaur Paratrooper who longs for the good old days of just firefights.
Position:-Capt. LA City Fire Dept., retired
A Job:-Directed Crash Co. @ Van Nuys Airport
Crash Truck Equipped with Hi-pressure nozzles on top of cab and bumper level on each side, front.
PURPOSE:- Hi-pressure Water Sweep roadways of loosley covered Ied’s and land mines. Hi-pressure streams will uncover them, loosen their elect. contacts and disarm them.
TEST: Bagdad Airport should have one. Improvise Humdees with tanks and hi-press. pumps.
On 09/12/06 thru 09/13/06, there will be a JIEDDO conference in DC. A topic of discussion will be the IED’s. One concept that is currently being used is to jam the frequencies. However, why not reverse that process and send out numerous frequencies that will unexpectedly detonate the devices, where ever they are within range of the frequency generator. Perhaps, an IED will explode while in transit or in the assembly process. Certainly this is worth a try and it wouldn’t be very expensive. Just a few lab tests to prove proof of concept then field test in the current conflicts. Simple is better!
call me stupid, but most of these comments shouldn’t be posted on an open internet forum.
who gives a damn if the AIF and others can get information about our C-IED TTPs from other sources…why the hell would you want to make it easier for them by taking about it here?
As a recently retired Navy Master Chief of 30 years and EOD Tech for the last 20 of those 30 years, I would just like to point out, as did another individual that, although nothing classified is posted in the comments, a LOT of useful information could possibly be gleaned from some of these comments by our enemies. I would just like to ask that those who make comments, and those who screen and post them think about what information they could unwittingly be giving to the enemy that can be used against us. Since my early days in EOD in the mid-80’s until now, I have always been of the mind that we are too free with information. Some may accuse EOD of being “secret squirrel” but I believe we should not advertise our capabilities and limitations. More than ever, this is an “EOD” war and I think too many individuals have gotten caught up in a desire to be cool and look cool and advertise coolness instead of quietly doing our job and not showing the world how we do it so counter measures can be formulated. Thanks for the opportunity to have my say.…
I agree on the security issue with posting to much info. But look at the original post. ELECTRONIC ENGINEER! Can you say insurgent fishing for info. If he was an electrical engineer don’t you think he could spell! Insurgents open source everything on the internet. Beware. Noah don’t let your journalism interfer with integrity!
I am currently serving in Iraq and over the course of the last couple days my life has been saved by army equipment twice, and the Duke being one of the devices that saved my life and the lives of everyone in the vehicle, my question for anyone that may know the answer to is ‚how do I go about finding the dash 10 or maintenance manual on this device so that we can properly maintain it?
Thomas Renteria, email me on AKO @ christopher.field and I will help you. have some good contacts and access that you can benefit from.
Military.com, please take off any and all ttp’s that we are doing in country to keep all members safe!!!!!!!
If you do not screen the coments made by ignorant persons, you will be the cause of the deaths of many members of the U.S. Armed Forces trying to uphold justice. Then please explain to their families why the ultimate sacrifice was made. Loose lips or should I say fingers.
v/r
NAVY EOD TECH
for ied jammer see: http://cymtronic.club.fr/brouilleur_026.htm
To Thomas Renteria, the CREW systems are classified secret and should not be discussed nor repaired by unauthorized personnel. This, you of all people should know and not be writing about it on the internet. Does COMSEC and OPSEC mean nothing to you?
Jim Miller
CREW FSR
I absolutely can’t believe the folks posting
info here that can aid our enemies in making life
more dangerous for our people on the ground in the sandbox.…Geezus
Raven
T32873
I absolutely can’t believe the folks posting
info here that can aid our enemies in making life
more dangerous for our people on the ground in the sandbox.…Geezus
Raven
T32873
I absolutely can’t believe the folks posting
info here that can aid our enemies in making life
more dangerous for our people on the ground in the sandbox.…Geezus
Raven
T32873
Army Engineers are toolbags. All they’re good for is getting their Talons stuck in craters so EOD Team Chiefs have to don bomb suits and save their equipment.
Any Engineer who things he has any knowledge of EOD simply because he goes to an EOCA course should ride on the Buffalo arm the next time they roll out on route clearance. Suckas.