War is hell. But its worse when the Marines bring out their new urban combat weapon, the SMAW-NE. Which may be why theyre not talking about it, much.
This is a version of the standard USMC Shoulder Mounted Assault Weapon but with a new warhead. Described as NE — “Novel Explosive”- it is a thermobaric mixture which ignites the air, producing a shockwave of unparalleled destructive power, especially against buildings.
A post-action report from Iraq describes the effect of the new weapon: “One unit disintegrated a large one-storey masonry type building with one round from 100 meters. They were extremely impressed.” Elsewhere it is described by one Marine as “an awesome piece of ordnance.“
It proved highly effective in the battle for Fallujah. This from the Marine Corps Gazette, July edition: “SMAW gunners became expert at determining which wall to shoot to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms.“
The NE round is supposed to be capable of going through a brick wall, but in practice gunners had to fire through a window or make a hole with an anti-tank rocket. Again, from the Marine Corps Gazette:
“Due to the lack of penetrating power of the NE round, we found that our assaultmen had to first fire a dual-purpose rocket in order to create a hole in the wall or building. This blast was immediately followed by an NE round that would incinerate the target or literally level the structure.”
The rational for this approach was straightforward:
“Marines could employ blast weapons prior to entering houses that had become pillboxes, not homes. The economic cost of house replacement is not comparable to American lives…all battalions adopted blast techniques appropriate to entering a bunker, assuming you did not know if the bunker was manned.”
The manufacturers, Talley, make bold use of its track record, with a brochure headlined Thermobaric Urban Destruction.“
The SMAW-NE has only been procured by the USMC, though there are reports that some were ‘borrowed’ by other units. However, there are also proposals on the table that thousands of obsolete M-72 LAWs could be retrofitted with thermobaric warheads, making then into effective urban combat tools.
But in an era of precision bombs, where collateral damage is expected to be kept to a minimum, such massively brutal weapons have become highly controversial. These days, every civilian casualty means a few more hearts and minds are lost. Thermobaric weapons almost invariable lead to civilian deaths. The Soviet Union was heavily criticized for using thermobaric weapons in Afghanistan because they were held to constitute “disproportionate force,” and similar criticisms were made when thermobarics were used in the Chechen conflict. According to Human Rights Watch, thermobaric weapons “kill and injure in a particularly brutal manner over a wide area. In urban settings it is very difficult to limit the effect of this weapon to combatants, and the nature of FAE explosions makes it virtually impossible for civilians to take shelter from their destructive effect.“
So its understandable that the Marines have made so little noise about the use of the SMAW-NE in Fallujah. But keeping quiet about controversial weapons is a lousy strategy, no matter how effective those arms are. In the short term, it may save some bad press. In the long term, its a recipe for a scandal. Military leaders should debate human right advocates and the like first, and then publicly decide “we do/do not to use X”. Otherwise when the media find do find out as they always do — not only do you get a level of hysteria but there is also the charge of covering up.
I’m undecided about thermobarics myself, but I think they should let the legal people sort out all these issues and clear things up. Otherwise you get claims of chemical weapons and violating the Geneva Protocol. Which doesn’t really help anyone. The warfighter is left in doubt, and it hands propaganda to the bad guys. Just look at what happened it last weeks screaming over white phosphorous rounds.
– David Hambling
THERE’S MORE: Americans arent the only ones with these weapons. The Chinese, the Russians — even guerilla groups — now have thermobarics’ shockingly destructive power in their grasps.
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History has shown the side with the more advanced technology wins conflicts? No… how bout Vietnam? How bout the Russian-Aghani conflict in the eighties? How about the war of independence? Insurgents will outlast occupiers. Although I hope it is different for us in Iraq and Afghanistan…
I say that they can use it as long it doesn’t affect us in the long or short run. It may be useful at war but sheesh, if that thing misfires and hits a nursery or something then…
Wrong weapon for Falluja. Just flatten the place with B-52s. Why should one American die for a bunch of mud huts.
America has become so good at using propaganda that even it’s own people believe that it’s a free country. America this, America that.Trying to be world police…to keep it’s fingers in all the pies more like.Oil,strategic bases,money,converting states to allies through whatever means.They have been using Nazi techniques for years.Propaganda techniques and technology and who knows what else. Take 9/11 for example..inside job? Don’t rule it out huh.I do agree that fighting for your country may be valiant and brave..but before you sign your life away,when the american people’s lives have been in no danger from foreigners in the first place,you should maybe consider either what your fighting for or who’s side (if any) ahould you be on.
george b, i dont know about the Russian-Aghani conflict, but vietnam was a military victory, a political failure for sure, but our tactics were sound.. also, in war of independence…we used better tactics. guerilla tactics to be precise, as opposed to lining up and duking it out against superior numbers. hit and run tactics, the first sharpshooters, we even targeted their leaders. all of these were new and better strategems. where are you getting your info?
neutron bomb them. Why spend any more money on developing nice weapons, war is not nice. Lets use what we already have and finish em off. set off the nuetron bomb and you can occupy territory in 4 days. Stop trying to spare so called innocent people. the women bare children that will grow up to be just like who we are fighting now. Remember they started this. The muslims are spreading like a plague throughout the free world and trying to impose their horrible beliefs on unsuspecting nice freedom loving folks. Lets stop screwing around and defeat this enemy.
I really would like to see the M-3 CG given to line units, since only the ones we have are used by SOCOM. 1 and done ain't good enough, 6 rnds a minute works 4 me..buy more. Wat a great weapon, we should have a helluva lot more. Those guys NEED them. 1 and done sux…
Really? You condone the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children? What if the US used that same ideology on our own soil? Oh man there’s a serial killer in a house, let’s just bomb the place. Oh, oops there’s 50 hostages? That’s too bad, but at least he won’t hurt anyone anymore!
Your xenophobic ideals are why people hate us. America would be a great country if we could just keep the most ignorant of us off the television.
The Arabs routinely use civilian shields, civilian homes, and also use U.N. facilities as shields and bases from which to fire from and hide behind. These tactics were very frequent in the Lebanon War, and the destruction of a U.N. post happened because the Arab fighters set up observation and mortars around it. Any time a fighting organization fights from civilian "cover" or "concealment" casualties can be expected. But they shouldn't be blamed on the nuances of how one high-explosive works as opposed to another, or is more powerful. The civilian casualties should be blamed on the fighters who choose to endanger civilians … or for that matter, use them as suicide terrorists.
This is a good weapon and I hope the boys can get it soon…it would save many Americans lives…and that is something I do care about. The job of the infantry is to engage and destroy the ememy, no arrest them.
Thank you…. keep up the good work Marines, we are proud of you!
Semper Fi
just let them loose. i say make a bigger one and blow the whole damn country up. that way our soldiers can come home.
the geneva conventions and similar rules of conduct are a good idea, only if both sides abide by them! i have 2 nephews in the u.s.m.c., and i've given them one piece of advice. "it's better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6." i'm on my last nerve with the bleeding hearts that think it's unfair that we have superior weaponry. if the al-qaida (hope i spelled that right) had thought about our firepower before they started up with us, they wouldn't have to be dealing with it now. we're not killing innocent people over in iraq, and afghanistan! the cowards hiding behind them are the ones responsible for the civilian deaths in my opinion. they can behead construction workers and school girls for their cause, but when we level a building they were hiding in and a non-combatant gets caught up in the mess, they call us cowards… OOH RAH!!!
It would be nice if line units got to use the G-3 Carl Gustav..6 rnds a minute..with a thermobaric charge? Why does SOCOM have a monopoly on the CG's? Damn that is way better than 1 and done..the only good muj is a DEAD 1..fuck 'em…
do you speak türkish any bady is here
OMFG where can I buy some of those.
The thing to take away from all this:
If you are a civilian in a war-zone, and theres a bunch of bad guys in your living room shooting out the window, get the fcuk out of the house!!
"Whenever the legal/ethical status of a given weapon system might be questioned, surely some public debate is needed."
Please stop! Whenever you include legal and ethical in killing you wonder why our soldiers are handicapped. It's wrong and unhelpful. You know if you use this stuff effectively – meaning no holes barred then your enemies tend to not fight you in the long run and it is when you chose limitations on your own – you negate your advantages. There is no ethical or moral superior way to kill. Period.
So what I am saying is that we need to lower our per enemy killed cost. If you add up the cost of per bomb, bullet or blast, which includes logistics, operational, cleanup and health services for wounded and then divide the number of combatants killed = staggering. Give the guys everything to their advantage i.e.: we win they lose! Lower the ROE, and let them loose so we can lower the cost in our lives and per combatant. You need to make it so the enemy has nothing worth dying for or help those that don't care reach their person goals. Lastly and most of all do it for the poor losers who have embraced the Global Warming, albeit dying hoax. They are going to need some other cause to embrace – like hating winners, capitalists and America. (Sorry I was just informed they already do)
So, let’s do the math…
Two missiles to destroy a fighting position=
$26,000 + loss of support due to potential civilian casualties
> the minimal cost of a few grunts to whichever group it is we’re currently fighting.
“The economic cost of house replacement is not comparable to American lives”
The key word here is “American:” our grunts are too expensive to use as cannon fodder. Get a local militia to do the job for us by promising the leaders a say in government, local autonomy, or access to oil money. They won’t care about casualties, and the political fallout won’t land on us.
The rampant, bloodthirsty xenophobia expressed here makes me suspect that some of you want to see a massacre, rather than win a military and political victory.
Specifically to the poster above–this is the wrong place to troll. You’re a sad excuse for a person.
to the women who got the courage,bravery and the warriors spirit to depend our country—thanks also so much–keep it wise and keep you blood in you bodies containment shell—–wisdom of knowledge.
from a ex-seabee,marital artist,and engineer who does truck drivin for a living
thanks–america –accepts all styles—don,t let the religion's tell us different..
one of possible many u.s.a human male
hi my names ryan my dad showed me this weapon its almost capable to shot out of any weapon
Man, that's really crazy the way the military gets around doing this. It soon becomes normal in keeping secrets like this.
Horrible weaponry, I feel sorry for anybody that has anything to do with these on either end of barrel.
The Bush administration blew up the twin towers as a pretext to make money and protect American interests. I’m an American citizen but thank **** I don’t lve in the U.S!
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