A friend gave me the idea for the Fighter/Attack/Recon/Cargo/Electronic warfare version of the F-22 Raptor not long after the added the ‘A’ designation. Now they’re hyping it as an electronic anti-IED platform, noted at the POGO blog. The source material is only available via paid subscription, so I can’t give you any details. But at a time while some are calling for cuts in F-35 production to build additional F-22s, I’ve got to wonder how serious this claim really is. I don’t always agree with POGO (folks, that’s ‘understatement’), but I’ve got to agree with them on this one.
First, let me be very clear: If the F-22’s electronics suite is capable of countering IEDs, let’s bring it on. If all that’s needed is a slight modification to the existing hardware or some new software, that’s a no-brainer. The POGO entry seems to make it sound like they’re talking about an anti-IED specialty variant of the Raptor. I find that extremely unlikely. Most probably they’re talking about upgrading them all to include the capability.
Second, they’ve been hyping the electronics capabilities of the Raptor for some time, and that’s a good thing. Here are a couple interesting ones from C4ISR Journal: Supersonic SIGINT Is Back: ISR Sensors Built Into F/A-22, JSF Fuselages and Agile radar beams: Active electronically scanned arrays energize fighter performance.
But this claim, coming right now, seems a bit contrived. Maybe Murdoc’s just a bit jaded. I’d sure like to know more details about the proposal, but, then, I’m sure the IED makers would, too.
Anyway, if Raptors can do it, let’s go for it. However, I’m not expecting to see F-22s screaming down to clear roads ahead of supply convoys. And, as useful as anti-IED capabilities may be, they aren’t a good reason to make decisions regarding hundred-million dollar air superiority fighters.
Now, if they’d just add a camera and a little cargo bay, the Raptor would really and truly be a F/A/R/C/E. It’s not that the F-22 is a farce. Despite the high cost, no one seems to be debating the fact that it’s an awesome machine. But these attempts to sell the thing as a major player in the type of war we’re currently fighting appear to be little more than shallow PR campaigns. I’ve had a little yellow post-it note on my computer monitor for a long time as a reminder of the farce idea, just waiting for the right moment. This seems to be it.
UPDATE: Noah points out that this is another “part of a broader move to try to jam IEDs from above — a move that has met with only limited success.” It’s been noted on Defense Tech here and here previously.
He also reminds me that a quick check of the Raptor Watch category here on Defense Tech will yield additional wacky justifications for the F-22. Like any good multi-billion dollar defense program, there’s no shortage of them.
Finally, I got a look at the source article (paid subscription required) and Lockheed is looking to add this anti-IED capability beginning with the Block 30 model, but declines to give any specifics:
Block 30 Raptors will add air-to-ground radar, better attack capabilities against integrated air defense systems, Link 16 data link and a core Small Diameter Bomb ability through 2009. The EA capability against IEDs, not one of the aircraft’s main missions as originally outlined, comes as the company looks to solidify its advanced fighter’s relevance over the next 40 years, especially while the United States engages in a global war on terrorism.
They also continue to push for a bomber version of the Raptor.
UPDATE 2 : Received this in an email:
How about minesweeper, too?
Heh. I’ll see your “minesweeper” and raise you a “hedgerow cutter”!
UPDATE 3: Also via e-mail: Defense Industry Daily had a great post on F-22 and F-35 electronic warfare back in October.
–Cross-posted by Murdoc
Good Mornig Folks,
Oh, hum, hum another story about the “Raptor” and why we need it?
The deal for this “Turkey” is done, stick a fork in it. The only question is how many are we going to buy, pick a number between 178 and 378. As mentioned last week the “Fighter Jocks” want to drop the ax (no pun intended, David) on the F/A-35A JSF so they can buy more “Raptors”.
The article above forgot the lastest informatial by the U.S.A.F. on why we need more to blow a biggerchunk of the Air Force’s budget on “Raptors”. The results of the 2005 war games with India.
No surprise the F-15’s and F-16’s didn’t do to well against Russian built Su-27’s and Indian built Su.30’s. For those of you interested a new twist was added this year to the contest.
To find out what was new for 2005, you can always go over and check out the story over at Military.com.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Speaking from a boots on the ground perspective. NO! This is a horrible idea. I had enough problems with our own Marine Helos equipped with IED countermeasures. Communication problems led to over flights of patrol routes that were off schedule. IED countermeasures as i knew it meant to detonate the IED before the patrol entered the area. You get a miscommunication somewhere and suddenly you’re detonating the IED on your own forces. A Raptor flying at Mach 1+.…It’s like high speed carpet bombing of innocent people and ground troops. But i’m sure it looks cool from the air. Keep your dumb gadgets on the drawing board until you consult with the trigger pullers on the ground. The Air Force has shot up enough marines as it is. You know what would be cool, get us more flights out of there and more up-armored trucks till we leave. Some tail would be nice too.
Mike former Jarhead.
The EA-6B Prowler has been serving in an anti-IED role, as DefenseTech itself has noted. Rather than an F-22, I think it would make more sense to outfit a smaller aircraft with more economical per-hour operating costs to do long-loiter counter-IED work — a bizjet or an RC-12 like aircraft. There’s also a C-130 variant that can do this job.
Where these capabilities do come in awfully handy is… what electronic warfare/ ECM assets accompany “Global Strike” F-22/ B-2 teams that kick down the door on Day 1? A non-stealth EA-18 Growler? That’s just dumb.
If the F-22 or JSF can be tweaked to broaden their electronic attack capabilities at little cost, that’s a nice plus and potentially an important capability. Especially if a serious confrontation comes up with a well equipped enemy.
Leaving aside questions of alliances, international project traps, etc… a couple years ago, I saw the F-35 JSF as essential and the F-22 as expendable overkill. The more I look at it from a purely strategic/ operational requirements point of view, the more I see the F-22 as the essential plane in a high/ vlow force mix, and the JSF as the diversion and mistake. For what it’s worth at this point.
I’ll add that DID did an in-depth piece on this topic (F/A-22 and F-35) a little while ago:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2005/10/supersonic-sigint-will-f35-f22-also-play-ew-role/index.php
Byron,
I went over to Military.com for the article you referred to below and don’t see it. Could you post the link?
I agree with Joe’s comments that if anti-IED capabilities can be added to the Raptor at little cost, then why not? But that still remains to be seen–we just don’t know enough details about it. Either way the Raptor is still primarily an air superiority fighter that is very expensive. If we make it into a swiss army knife of planes then the potential for further delays and cost overruns is definitely a possibility, if not a likelihood. Like you said the better option for this function is to rely on aircraft that can loiter longer on the relative cheap.
Also Joe, while a stealthy plane with electronic warfare/ ECM assets is valuable to kick down the door, IEDs aren’t exactly the problems we’ll face on Day One (more like Day One Hundred and One) in a war with Iran or China. But I see your point on whether F-22 ECM abilities easily and cheaply incorporate IED jamming.
–Nick
didn’t anyone pay attention when MacNamarra tried to make the F-111 the all signing all dancing plane to replace everything?
Col. John Boyd must be rolling over in his grave over the F/A-22. Then again, he’s probably been spinning ever since they gave his beloved F-16 a ground-attack role.
And, clearly, no — nobody in a position of power today remembers the lessons of the F-111. Given the descriptions of procurement in Robert Coram’s biography of Boyd, I’m not sure the Air Force has ever remembered the lessons of the F-111.
This reminds me of that scene in The Pentagon Wars when the generals keep making the Bradley designers add more and more features, only the finished product ends up being a jack of all trades, master of none.
Funny movie by the way, and finally available on DVD.
If IED suppression equipment requires dedicated hardware to the degree that such aircraft must be designated as a type, then why can it not also be retrofitted to existing airframes, such as F-15s (which have highly adaptable airframes for such purposes) or even F-4s. It seems unlikely that a battlefield in which IEDs are the primary weapon used against US forces will present much of a threat to US fighter aircraft, which mitigates the usefulness of the F-22’s capabilities.
Good Afternoon Nick,
I couldn’t find it on Military.com either, it likely appeared on Nov. 29, 2005 but here is the article at it’s source.
The story called: “Indian Air Force, in War games, give U.S. a run.” the story appeared in the 11/28/05 Christian Science Monitor their web address is csmonitor.com
ALLONS,
Byron
Don’t forget the addition of antisubmarine and antisattelite capabilities (bonus points if the same missile is used for both), coming soon to an overpriced airplane near you…
A stealth electronic warfare plane, now that’s dumb. As for the use of the F-22 radar against IEDs, you could mount the same radar on the nose of a C-130 or on top of a truck for that matter. It’s not magically better if you hang it on the nose of an F-22.
Here’s a link to that story Byron mentioned: http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p01s04-wosc.html
Here’s a quote: “The Sukhoi is a … better plane than the F-16,” says Vinod Patney, a retired Indian Air Force marshal, and former vice chief of air staff.
It’s hard to imagine we could rest on our laurels for over 30 years. Keep paying these defense contractors profit on development, then wonder why it takes 20+ years to develop a fighter. Remember capitalism? You know, it won the Cold War. It still works.
>If IED suppression equipment requires dedicated hardware to the degree that such aircraft must be
>designated as a type, then why can it not also be retrofitted to existing airframes, such as F-15s
>(which have highly adaptable airframes for such purposes) or even F-4s.
You’ve got a good question, but let’s not have that question to be answered.
Interesting discussion, tell me something is the AF trying to say (which they have over and over again) that they can take over all missions including the ground warfighter? This hyperbole of an all in one aircraft that can throw everything at you including the kitchen sink is getting old. Now I don’t think that the AF needs to go away however, I do think that they need to seriously get over the fact that the cold war is over. For instance as highly trained as AF pilots are you don’t see them out there landing on Carriers and they definitely can’t be there on station and closer than the Navy gets. We need all facets of our Armed Forces but seriously get a clue people.
This is…well…stupid. I mean, who on earth would think of putting a capability that requires very long loiter time moving at the pace of the land battle on an air superiority fighter?
Put gadget in box. Put box in C130. Simple!
Better yet, hang gadget from Army tactical UAV..
Just what particular capability does the –22 offer that can’t be retrofitted, hung on a hard point or reprogrammed into existing designs? Supercruise? Anything else?
So this fiscal electrolux is causing the AF to short sheet other programs (cargo, tanker, bomber, affordable attack aircraft, etc) so a couple of hundred members of the grand and glorious fighter jock mafia can supercruise the wild blue yonder?
Outfit one wing for R&D and get to work on armed UAVs and packages to retrofit the useful bits to existing (affordable) designs.
There is no point at all wasting the few F-22 Rapters the Airforce will be getting for anything else other then Air Superiority!! Why waste an air craft designed to be a “F” and nothing more, when you can modify other very capable aircraft like the F-15. This is pure idiocy.
The is another problem with having an “all in one solution” to our battlefield woes. What happens when China figures out how to hack into the electronics of the F-22? If we have one weapon system, and that one system is compromised in battle, then what do we do? I know that there will not be any major battles with China right now, but they have even admitted that their military wont catch up to ours for at least 25 years. In terms of history 25 years is a blink. I only hope that the people that are in more important positions see that and prepare for future threats as well as today’s challenges.
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Air superiority is key, and a constant effort should be made to advance it’s technology. Good enough isn’t. I’m not saying don’t Keep and upgrade the F18’s, 16’s, 15’s, 14’s, A-6’s, F4’s, and build more drones, but there will always be the need for such a machine as the F22. It flies in ways no other plane can, and boast a laundry list of advancements that alow it to do anything (Stealth missions, air to air, air to ground, whatever) on the fly while toggleing between modes. Why must we rely on 60’s and 70’s technology for our future? I say the F22 and F35 programs are over due. And when the next technology wave hits I hope our government has the forsight to build an even badder plane with more capeabilities so our future is more secure. (if they haven’t already) Supercruise is great because it means more speed for less fuel! (what is better than that?) Lastly at the risk of sounding like a nut job what about aliens? Don’t you want to be able to have a fighting chance if they come here in anger? Even the F22 falls way short of anything that might be able to overcome alien technology, so in a way we have a long way to go, and F22 is another step in the right direction.
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