When the latest body armor flap broke ten days ago, several commenters here talked up the Dragon Skin protective system as a better alternative. Now, Soldiers for the Truth — the group which ignited the current armor debate — is passing on reports from two deploying GIs that “their commander told them if they were wearing Pinnacle Dragon Skin and were killed their beneficiaries might not receive the death benefits from their $400,000 SGLI life insurance policies.“
According to Defense Review — which has been tracking Pinnacle’s gear for a while — the Skin is basically your standard body armor, laced with silver-dollar sized ceramic discs. These are configured over the vest like scales (hence the “Dragon” sobriquet).
Some folks say the Skin is at least as tough as standard-issue armor, and it’s flexible, too — which should make it more comfortable. But, if I’m reading right, the basic Dragon Skin vest weighs about 8 lbs. more than the Interceptor OTV armor that soldiers generally wear now. That extra weight, I’m guessing, is the reason why one commander tried to spook his men out of their Skin. And I have a feeling this is just one commander’s words — not some Pentagon-wide directive, as SFTT implies. We’ll see.
Dissing the Dragon?
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{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t think so. The Interceptor weights 16.4 lbs last time I checked, and the SOV weighs a maximum of 18.5 lbs. A small weight increase (probably because there are sections of the scales that overlap and are thus double thickness, whereas a SAPI plate has even thickness everywhere), but I would imagine the flexibility would make up for it.
The Interceptor weights ~8.4 lbs without the ceramic plates in the front and back. Each plate weights ~4 lbs.
Also ignored is the fact that Dragon Scale armor provides much better coverage than the plates used. Everyone complains now about the poor side and shoulder protection, while pinnacle armor has been selling full torso Class III armor, not limited area inserts. More likely someone that is not getting rich enough off of DOD contracts and interceptor amror is probably behind this.
SGLI pays REGARDLESS OF CAUSE OF DEATH. Suicide, murder, war, motorcycle racing…
Any commander who says otherwise is a liar or an incompetent.
A standard IBA with two plates weighs 16.4 lbs, but with the shoulder coverage, side plates, and the “new” sapi plates that go in front and back weighs about 32 pounds. So I think the that with full coverage besides the shoulder pads that the SOV Dragon Skin will be well worth it. And as far as the price goes I would think that the goverment would rather spend the 4+ grand on a vest that will save lives, then spend the 400,000 on the life insurance for each soldier that dies.
I shot a sapi plate 8 times at 20 meters with a smith and wesson 500. It’s a 50 cal. Not a singe round penetrated the Plate even on glancing shots to the side of it. At most it would penetrate the carbon like layer. Then peirce through 2 very thin weavings of either kevlar or nylon. The plate is a good system but it needs to get thinner and lighter.
give me a split screen demo of intersepter & dragon skin in action then well talk, i dont know about you but my life is worth a $5000 investment
Say you’re driving along on Active duty but you are assign light treat duty but a you are driving a bomb or a group of insergents ambush you. Do you have time to add your extra plating no! I put my money on dragon skin
What no one is talking a about is Dragon Scale’s ablity to reduce blunt force for rounds take don’t get through. My father was a police-man when light body armor was invented. He was shot twice, vest worked both times, but blunt force wounds the size of dinner plates where he was shot. Dragon Scale’s design transfers blunt shock across the whole vest, making it more possible to get back in the fight.
I heard a rumor that there is dragonskin boots. Can anyone confirm this? Can you bring your own body armour to Iraq? I have heard yes and no.
I’ve heard mixed things about Dragon Skin from the guys that I know who’ve tried it out. About half think the flexibility and side protection is great. The other half hates how it limits their mobility through tight spaces. I don’t know how this opinion would be affected now that they’re being forced to wear the side-plates when going out… They also say “[the extra flexibility] doesn’t matter either when there’s 20 pouches attached to it”.
My buddy in 10th Mountain found about the same thing as SPC.Brooks with the latest Interceptor system plates they had. The only difference was a single plate took 5 direct hits from an M82/M107 before being useless.
Also, how much weight difference would there be between the full Interceptor system we use now (body, side plates, neck, throat, shoulder pads, crotch, underarm) and a Dragon Skin system covering all those areas? I’ve only ever seen stats for just the Dragon Skin vest.
Alright, let’s cut the crap. An IBA (Interceptor Ballistic Armor) vest may have weighed 16.4lbs when this whole thing started, but that’s not the case anymore. I wear a medium-size vest, and with ESAPI plates, side plates, the neck/throat protectors, and the groin protector, it weighs 31lbs.
Of course, only pussies and pogues wear the neck and groin protectors; and the only reason my unit had to put side plates on, after a year of doing just fine without them, was that some general saw those nasty Stryker Infantry guys running around without them, and ordered our brigade commander to make us wear them. Battlefield politics only hurt one demographic: us grunts.
We supplied 16 troops with Dragon Skin armor vests who are currently serving in Iraq. Recently we received a call that the commander of this team won’t let them wear the protection. I’ve been doing alot of research and don’t understand why this commander won’t let them wear over $90,000 worth of life protecting armor. I’ve contacted General Conways’ office 3 times and keep being put on “hold”
ATTENTION EVERYONE
WATCH NBC NIGHTLY NEWS TONIGHT!!!!!!!
THE WILL DISCUSS THE BODY ARMOR CONTROVERSY.
VISIT http://WWW.SFTT.ORG FOR THE SPECIFICS
what I think is funny and frighting at the same time is on the front of the sapi plates it says in big white letters “HANDLE WITH CARE”
Maybe they should better print “handle with care” on Dragon Skin than false NIJ certifications. lol
I have done several tours in iraq both as a civ and US Army. I have not used Dragon Scale in country, but after watching a live demo a few days ago, I was extreamly Impressed. Two full Mags of haji AK 47 from 15-20 yrds away. Not one round go through, they pulled every slug out. I usually dont buy the sales pitch for items, there is a lot of BS, that goes along with non issued military items, non specwar troops always seem to want equipmet that makes them appear different and are quick to speak poorly about issued items.
on this item, I think the message is clear, the extra protection is worth it, I have witnessed to many deaths caused by the smallest of wounds. when the man should have made it home, any extra protection is worth the extra money!
I am currently in Afghanistan right now and I can not stand the current IBA. For one thing I am 6’6″ and weigh 200lbs. I wear a medium because the length does not change at all. Pecker protector doesn’t protect shit, I don’t wear that… I can’t drive HMV’s or sit in the TC position if I am wearing my side plates. I would glady pay 4-5K for an armor system that incorporates the side protection seamlessly into the rest of the system.
I doubt they will ever make anything that will compliment my height but it would still be nice to have something that conforms to my upper body a little better.
On top of it all, our current armor has limited protection, there are still large gaps in the armor. Why aren’t we getting the best protection there is?
i think to sum it all we could not resolve this isue just by argue our asses on it… for me it better if all of us could get together and at onetime test the both armor… but even if the the best armor would be found best, but there is still the politics, most of as knows about it, that some of the big asses there wont lit the best be the besest arnor just because of the cuts the he would be getting frome the companies…
dragon skin is amazing and could save lives but the government doesn’t like the price tag is all.
The Government takes care of the soldiers and high ranking officials. With how they upgrade guns. NEW 6.8 FOR the really good shots with the best training and years out in service. AND for all the youngins that are comming in lets give you…. this shitty ass intercepter vest…. and this shitty m16. m16 sux… take a AK from a dead sand ass caving bitches. Main Fact. US new about the breakthroughs with dragonskin. THE level 5 is CLASSIFIED!!!! look at pinnaclearmor.com top left go to ballistics you’ll see level 3-4 stop 7.62 NATO rounds REPETIVLY over and over again getting hit. AND nothing… The army won’t give 900$ more to get level 3 dragonskin to every person.
IBA’s are as usless as aluminum foil. At least u’d get to blaze before you get shot threw your armor.
God be with you all. Pray for our soldiers.
watch out for juba, dragonskin would wipe him out!!!
i was wondering if dragon skin can stop a .50 from any gun in the world today?? since it can stop alomst every other bullet…..
I have been to Iraq and seen the SAPI plates work. Is there something better ?. The bottom line is, SAPI plates work and they work very well. I know many people who are above ground because of these plates; wear them and you’ll be fine. Theres a lot of opinions out there based on no experience and a lot of cheap talk.
a large interceptor OTV with 2 side enahanced sapi and two large enhanced sapi (front and rear) and the neck protector will weigh a tad bit over 42lbs last time i weighed it. The Dragonskin SOV2000 offering slightly greater protective coverage and offering the same threat level protection but over a larger area will weigh 28lbs. The SOV3000 series weighs around 40lbs but offers even greater protection. Id gladly settle for the SOV2000, especially as pinnacle offer long and short lengths unlike the Interceptor. I am infantry. I fully understand the situations we face and believe the armor debacle to be promoted mainly by the people who have never and will never serve on the front lines.
Yeah 18.5 pounds is heavy when that doesnt include other battle dress…we need to develop lighter armor.
The Dragon Skin is a nice concept although not perfect.
The Dragon Skin is a nice concept although not perfect.
I've been doing a research project for the Army on this. I ship June 28th to ft Benning for basic, infantry school, and airborne school then I will hopefully get deployed. What Im worried about is this armor that we are using right now. So much that I probably will wear Dragon Skin under everything else.