One of the biggest arguments for the $240 billion Joint Strike Fighter program is that the jets will be stealthy — able to evade the next-generation air defense systems that countries like China might eventually install. But, it turns out, the JSF may not wind up being quite so stealthy, after all.
The “U.S. Defense Department ha[s] downgraded the stealth capability of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters,” the AFP reports, “meaning the planes would be less able to evade radar detection and enemy attack than earlier believed.”
Australia’s defense minister “expressed concern March 14 at news that the new generation U.S. warplane that was to be a cornerstone of Australias future air force will not have the stealth capabilities…”
Peter Goon, a former air force flight test engineer, told The Sydney Morning Herald newspaper the change in the JSFs stealth rating would mean the difference between the warplane appearing as a marble and a beach ball on enemy radar…
Dennis Jensen, a government Member of Parliament and former defense analyst, recently said he did not think the Joint Strike Fighter would be a match for the Russian-built Sukhoi family of strike jets that are or will be operated by air forces in Asia, including China, Indonesia, Malaysia and India.
Meanwhile, the Limeys are still skittish about plans to cancel the JSF’s alternate engine, made by Rolls-Royce. “Britains top weapons purchasing official said his country would be unable to buy the F-35… unless agreement was reached on technology transfers with the United States,” Reuters reports.
(Big ups: BB)
Well, if we admit that it’s just a way to shovel money to the usual well-connected firms, the JSF still makes a lot of sense. The F-22 looks pretty good that way, too.…
Good Afternoon Folks,
Where is the news here?
The Serbes showed in 1998 when they downed an F-117 that “Stealth” is only in the imaginations of those trying to sell the idea. The defense industry and military can make all the claims they like regarding stealth but until anti-matter is invented that has no physical mass and no infrared signature the bad guys will be able to see it if it’s out there.
The only stealth that exists is how quickly and unseen fromer Flag Officers can fly into a seven figure job with a defense contractor that they use to buy from.
Heres an idea, how about a “Life Time Ban” on ALL Flag Officers from taking a position with ANY business who does business with the DoD?
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Byron SKinner — Ummm yeah, thats why stealth is growing in popularity.
Not just on aircraft, but ships as well, theres not many (advanced) Navies out there that dont have a stealthy ship or at least one in construction in their hands.
We all know the reasons behind the F-117…I see no point in having another thread be turned into that disscussion. No B-2’s have been shotdown, which should tell you that stealth is real, not some lame excuse for cooler looking planes.
The Serbs shot down that F117 only by
pure chance or because they were tipped of.
Hang a couple of MERs on external hardpoints and you can kiss that whole stealth thing g’bye, anyway. Stealthy air superiority fighters I can see, barely; stealthy strike fighters, not so critical if the hyperexpensive supercruising superstealthy one-seat wunderwaffe have done the job they were bought for.
Gee, prohibit retired flag rankers from working for DoD contractors? Whatever might you be thinking? We all know that having junior enlisteds sit through interminable briefings and classes on the evils of conflicts of interest and having their heads squeezed incessantly about ‘values’ is much more productive of ethical actions than inconveniencing retired flag types who after all, are only trying to feed their families… As a combat arms noncom no contractor was going to so much as spring for a cup of coffee in a styrofoam cup so why did my time get wasted on this tripe? How come the contracting office folk weren’t watching it? Never did get a satisfactory answer to that.
Merc: No B2s have been shot down because they cost too damn much. They weren’t sent to GW1, to Bosnia, to Kosovo (B-1B drew first blood there I believe, and the F117 got blown up). The B-2’s “first combat deployment” is to OIF (this is off the AF’s factsheet). No B2s were shot down simply because we don’t send them out into combat, and we hold them back out of fear for losing them. We sent a B-1B into Baghdad to try to kill Saddam (2,000 pd bombs into the Mansour district), but where were the B-2s?
Diego?
As for stealth, stealth is just one piece of the puzzle…
Let’s see, the B-2 wasn’t a part of Desert Storm because … they weren’t in the production arsenal — not until Dec 93.
Its first combat was during the Kosovo War in 1999. During Operation Allied Force the B-2s flew less than 1 percent of the combat sorties but dropped 11 percent of the total bombs, and it introduced the satellite guided JDAM bomb to the world as well. Since then the aircraft has seen combat over Afghanistan in Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
The missions to Afghanistan saw a first for the aircraft. After flying bombing missions over Afghanistan, the aircraft concerned landed at Diego Garcia, were refueled and had a crew change before launching on another combat mission. This was taken a step further during the Iraq campaign when B-2s were actually based at Diego Garcia.
Later missions to Iraq were launched and returned to Whiteman AFB in Missouri. This resulted in missions lasting over 30 hours and even one mission of over 50 hours. B-2 crews have been used to pioneer sleep cycle research to improve combat crew performance over extended periods. The B-2 maintained a high mission-capable state for Operation Iraqi Freedom, dropping 583 JDAMs during the conflict.
C’mon, do some research or don’t talk about it if you’re just spouting off.
Ummm, doesn’t this bit of news strengthen the argument for the F-22? It seems like there’s a lot of concern that the JSF can’t go toe-to-toe with the new Sukhois because of this stealth downgrading, yet does the anti-fighter crowd continue to believe that the F-15 and F-18 will continue to provide uncontested air superiority?
Or maybe most the world will do us a favor by not buying those new fangled Russian jets, so we can contentedly stick to buying relatively cheap non-stealthy F-15s.
paul said:
“Ummm, doesn’t this bit of news strengthen the argument for the F-22?”
Not for Naval Flight/general STOVL Ops it doesn’t. The USAF might care little about it, but the USN, USMC, RN & RAF certainly will, not to mention some of the other international partners.
The sad fact is, China is going to rule the world and theres not much America can do but sit and wait. Perhaps the change would be for the better.
While China may become a major player in the world they will NOT rule it. If they don’t begin to peacefully transition into a democracy I am afraid that they will experience the same turmoil as the former Soviet Union. If Russia and China become real democracies we will have little to fear from them except economic competition.
AS for JSF. I am for canceling that project and FOR the F22 raptor. We can make it affordable by stretching out the procurement and keeping the F15 and F16s longer. These planes still have a lot of life in them. And if we buy a lot of F22s the price will come down considerably. And the F22 is top fighter in the world. Joe
its not china its india going to be the superpower we have stealth technology and russia support
China will never be a super-power. Not until it completely changes, which will never happen. I live here and I can tell you one thing: quantity over quality attitude completely dominates Chinese mentality. This also extends into their military-related decision making. For example, they would always prefer to purchase 1000 MIG-29 then 100 MIG-35, it’s obvious. Inefficiency, bureaucracy and lack of any reasoning will forever be a problem.
Hi people!
I think that F-35B of stealth is not good of it’s amoury as when it opens the hatch for the lifting fan, if anything gets into the lifting fan, it would cause a severe engine failure and it is a huge risk for that pilot to do that! A good example of it is in a movie “Die Hard 4.0″ as they shows a F-35B having an object droppping into it’s lifting fan an causes an extreme engine failure! Anyway, i like the design of it!
1. China invented the space shuttle and headed the first american space program
2. China invented the computer and held the patent for 20 years in U.S.A
3. Every country around india uses chinese weapons over india.
4. Jet Li is a god in japan, Jackie Chan is japanese pop culture for perfect police, india has no such thing except they get put in cages for illegally immigrating to japan
I think that the funding is important to, in this case… Because of the devolepment of the AA defences or radars that can (possible) detect stealth crafts like the F-22/F-35, are quite expensive.. so maybe if china/india/russia wil devolep any anti stealth defences, it will not be enaugh to defend their entire frontlines.
And to repond to the B2 comments… (I think): Isn’t it much cheaper to send multiple B1’s instead of 1 B2? because of the maintenence and operation? I think a b2 wasn’t necessery enaugh. And a B2 is untargeteble by AA defences because of his altitude and stealthyness right? so they weren’t afraid that it would shut down, but it was cheaper to send B1’s (please correct me if Im wrong)
@s.jeevan, what kind of superpower is india if it need russian’s support just to be able to stand up?
@Joko
India has its own home-built fighters.
They also upgrade what the Russians give them.