The seemingly endless drive to encase soldiers and marines in more and more armor continues — whether the troops want it or not. The lastest, Inside Defense tells us, is “QuadGuard,” a full body suit that’s been shipped out to about 5,000 marines in Iraq. There’s no mention of how many of ‘em are actually using the things.
QuadGuard is made out of “Dyneema,” supposedly “15 times stronger than steel.” Worn with the standard Interceptor body armor, it comes in two models: QuadGuard IV is a one-piece. QuadGuard V is more modular, “allowing marines to remove some parts of the equipment if they are not necessary.” Total weight: about nine and a half pounds. That’s on top of the approximately 42 pounds taken up by fully-loaded Interceptor gear, and the 5–6 pounds for the newly-required, side and shoulder guards. (Let’s not even get into that crazy facial armor or the moon suit.)
Designed by researchers at Oklahoma State University, with some Naval Research Lab cash, QuadGuard has the potential to “reduce fatalities by 10% and serious injuries by 30–40%,” its backers claim. Of course, there’s mention of how many of those benefits will be given back, with the additional heat, weight, and loss of mobility that comes with all that extra gear. Could this help some ultra-exposed troops? Sure. Let’s just hope the higher-ups don’t start forcing everyone on patrol to stop wearing ‘em. Especially not when the Iraqi summer is starting to kick in, and temperatures start climbing into the high 130’s. As Sgt. Eric Daniel noted a few months back:
Something folks don’t take into consideration is the tradeoffs associated with wearing additional armor. Just before I rotated out, we were getting issued the DAPS (deltoid auxiliary something-or-other…) and the “space marine” shoulder pads. While these offered additional protection to the side of the chest and shoulders (from small arms fire and small fragments) they were so cumbersome to wear that you were effectively immobile while wearing them. In fact, it was so bulky that I could not put it on and then climb through the turrets on the LMTVs and HUMVEES; I had to put the armor on top of the vehicle, get in the turret, and then suit up. Furthermore, while my small arms protection may have gone up, I was a dead man when it came to vehicle roll overs or surviving an IED/VBIED blast. This is just with the DAPS/ shoulder armor, mind you. Now they’re talking about equipping gunners with entire ensembles of kevlar armor (complete with portable AC systems). That’s just insane.
UPDATE 7:42 AM: Inside Defense also passes along another interesting tidbit. Just six weeks ago, the Army said that any soldier caught wearing Dragon Skin body armor “would have to turn it in and have it replaced with authorized gear.” Now, service officials are going to put the ballyhooed protective equipment through a weeklong series of tests, “to help the Army determine if the body armor meets the Armys standards.“
UPDATE 9:36 AM: Murdoc has more on the moon suit.
Next step, powered exoskeletons…or the terrorists will have won.
The facial armor is NOT stupid, only it’s use can be. If you’re a gunner in a Humvee turret, you’d best be wearing all the armor you can. Listening to the troops complaints can be detrimental, bitching amongst troops is an institutional tradition.
Personally, I’ve always wanted to see body armor designed more like hockey gear. Since it’s already designed to allow great freedom of movement, the only change would be the materials. Our only impediment to this is getting the powers that be to fund it.
I stumped at the fact that the boys back at the labs have not thought of something a bit more durable than this tackling dummy outfit.
Who in their right mind would think you can strap on 40+ pounds of armor and not get hot? Possibly become a heat casualty in a short amount of time.
The U.S. can build billion dollar “stealth” bombers, multi-billion dollar Aircraft carriers, put people in space, and send them a mile and half to the ocean floor but cannot get the typical Infantry guy a decent vehicle, high power assault rifle, or a well thought out suit of armor.
As silly as it may sound take the following people and put them in a room. A guy who designs costumes for movies, A guy who makes full suit of old style steel armor, a guy who designs small refrigeration systems and someone that is knowledgeable in materials that stop bullets.
So heres what ya got, The movie guy figures out how the suit best looks and functions, the armor guy figures out the proper fit and best way to cover the body, The refrigeration guy makes a small unit that cools the suit keeping the soldier cool in combat, and the material guy figures out how to make it all bullet a fragmentation proof, along with being light weight.
Actually exoskeletons with “assisted” mobility would work. Provide just the added lift to compensate for one to carry 75lbs of armor/gear. Making it strong enough to carry any extra gear but needing the soldier to lift anything above that 75lbs.
I would Consider that a more logical step in technology than any “mule”.
What the individual has is the centerpiece of whatever system of systems your going to fight your fight with.
Be interesting to see if Pinnacle’s Murray Neal figures out a way to scuttle the test, like his paranoid threats a few weeks ago. It sure sounds good, but I’m sort of suspicious of any body armor that claims to stop AP rifle bullets that somehow is only NIJ certified at IIIA. Pinnacle has lots of flashy marketing videos available but a striking absence of test results.
We shall see.
Sloan says:
“As silly as it may sound take the following people and put them in a room. A guy who designs costumes for movies, A guy who makes full suit of old style steel armor, a guy who designs small refrigeration systems and someone that is knowledgeable in materials that stop bullets.
So heres what ya got, The movie guy figures out how the suit best looks and functions, the armor guy figures out the proper fit and best way to cover the body, The refrigeration guy makes a small unit that cools the suit keeping the soldier cool in combat, and the material guy figures out how to make it all bullet a fragmentation proof, along with being light weight.“
Refrigeration means you have a heat exchanger with a water circulation unit. A heat exchanger must transfer heat from user to outside, so under low-light conditions you might stick out on infra-red.
Another problem is bulk and vulnerability of the system to damage (we are on the battlefield, remember!) Most likely this cooling system is just a jacket placed between the body and the armor layers. It’ll inhibit movement quite nicely. Imagine getting rolls of blankets and wrapping them around your arms, legs and torso. Now practice climbing fences, ducking from random mortar attacks and crawling around. Then try competing with someone while doing those tasks.
Next off is weight. Water is heavy, at 1 gram per liter and one kilogram per liter. How many liters of water will this system be, distributed on the shoulders and back, or worse, legs? Army soldiers today are fairly slow as light infantry…the number given is around 1 mph or less.
“material guy figures out how to make it all bullet a fragmentation proof, along with being light weight“
Bullet proof is /not/ a reality without using ceramics, which in turn are pretty much single use and shatter on a single hit. Fragmentation proof and low-vel bullet proof is what the vest really is for.
The real problem with this armor is weight and weight distribution. It’s heavy and you can’t just say “material guy make thing light weight”, which borders on just wishing the problem away.
Seems you got this all wrapped up buddy.….(not really)
The problem with Chuck here is that he’s a bit behind the times, but thats ok. For one covering yourself in ceramic armor is not very smart. For obvious reasons, there have been many improvements in materials that stop bullets all of them are lighter than the 1/2 inch chunk of plate(s) they place in a vest. Most of this information is hard to find, however its out there, ya just got to look aroundChuck.
You need to regulate the temperature to the human body, thats a simple fact. So lets break it down so Chuck here, gets it. Compare a two mile run on a cool day say 72–74 degrees versus a hot day of say, 96 degrees and high humidity. For most of us that have actually been in the military we know what this is like. We would prefer the run in the 70 degree range versus the later. The cooling system can use various types of fluid who said anything about water? Let alone using several liters of it. Using some common knowledge of your anatomy you should know what gets hot. Also where you blood flows and where cooling certain areas would cool the rest of your body. No need for gallons of water here Chuck.
Now we go into other issues like weight, ya, as an Infantry soldier at one time, my gear weighted over 80 pounds. But now things are different doctrine is changing and the days of humping all over the place are going to be over. Soldiers will ride to combat areas and deploy over a short time and then return after the mission is over. Even without the vehicles being some what bullet and bomb proof is better than being dead. Better yet if the suit is environmentally sealed (NBC proof would be a plus) there no need for a tent.
With the push for the Future Warrior system(s) the soldier is going to be carrying plenty of electronics and batteries and less non essential gear. Years ago we packed more food and water than ammo, today with lessons learned the hard way things have changed. Our troops are fighting a different war than our Father and Grandfathers.Chuck.
i think its obvious that effective plate armor that extends blow the elbows is at least a decade away. this armored leg crap is even worse. it might sound silly but i think that we will eventually go the same rought that medevil armorers went and move towards a armadilloed skirt for protection of the legs. anyone seen anything like this?
Instead of discounting the opinions of the troops in the field as bitching, why not use them to help develope new armor systems. A team of engineer types to build the prototypes, and a team of recent veterans to test. I voluteer. I’m less than a year out of the desert and if you haven’t spent the better part of a year living in armor day in and day out, in the heat, trying to operate, you don’t really get it.
With all these attempts on body armor, why don
where can one get leg protection? From the knees and up to bottom of vest? Please point me in the right direction. I am in iraq right now.
Thanks cameron
cameron.roberts@us.army.mil
Cameron,
Please visit my site at http://www.tacarm.com were you can order Shrapnel Shield Ballistic Inserts that fit into the elbow and knee pockets of your Army Combat Uniform (ACU).
They will stop fragments with ballistic characteristics similar to a .44 Magnum pistol round and weigh only 7.3 ounces each.
They are flexible and comfortable and will replace the need for you to wear non-ballistic strap-on pads.
I will send them Priority Mail and you should receive them in around 2 weeks
I can custom make the upper leg Shrapnel Shield Ballistic Inserts for you that will give you protection from fragments similar to bullets fired from a .38 pistol.
I will also provide the ACU fabric and Velcro so you can have a tailor on your FOB convert your ACUs so you can easily insert or remove the upper leg inserts from your trousers.
I am the inventor of the Patent Pending Ballistic Combat Uniform which also offers ballistic protection for your lower back, hips upper legs and shins.
I wore the BCU in Iraq during 2004 while serving with the First Infantry Division.
Retired after 23 years to include service in the Ranger Regiment and Special Forces, I believe you will be impressed.
I can also provide BCU upgrade kits for Marines and Airmen to convert their uniforms.
Send me an email at tacarm@aol.com and let me know what you need.
Sincerely,
Matt Sonner
President
Tacarm, LLC
I understand your anxiety about more armor. It does add weight and heat and it may limit your mobility to some extent, but it is not meant for everyone in every situation. I suggest that you try it out though before you get to upset about it and tell everyone that it isn’t good.
Hey Matt,
I was looking at your suit, pretty cool, hey, how would you like to try making it with Evo-Flex 500 denier and or 840 denier Twaron.
Allan Bain
Hey Matt don’t listen to Mr.Bain. Keep chargin’ forward on your idea because it sounds very good. As to Allan Bain, don’t try to polute other peoples ideas just because you want to make some bucks with cheaper/lesser quality materials.
thought tha military couldnt get cheaper or dumber. Wheres tha actual armor. I guess spendin alil money to save a soldiers life aint worth it for’em. they already get crap when they leave so why do anything when they in there too.
think Dragon scale is good but is quite heavy and does not take incerible amout of hits maybe 10 at best. A newer amour from Defend-X is much better it is like hard plates in shape and size but thats were the similaries end. I saw a video on you tube of it taking 63 5.56 nato green tip rounds before even dinting on the back. The armour has two plates with some for of rino lining on them and sandwiched in beteween them is a balsitic foam. any way it looks like the best amour out there right now.
Guys, all the armor out there is inadequate. As a former operator I know develop body armor specificly for the Air Force Research Lab at Tyndall. I know it has been to you guys in the field yet, but we just made a full Level 4 vest that weighs 14 lbs. IT WILL BE OUT THERE SOON!!! I promise.. If anyone has questions feel free to contact me.