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Home » Armor » New Twist in Dragon Armor Tale

New Twist in Dragon Armor Tale

After a few sol­diers started wear­ing Dragon Skin body armor, the much-​​hyped alter­na­tive to the stan­dard Interceptor defenses, the Army banned the flex­i­ble armor — and allegedly threat­ened to cut off the life insur­ance poli­cies of any­one wear­ing it. Then, the Army took a dif­fer­ent tack, say­ing it would start test­ing the Skin, to see if it was up to snuff.
Pinnacle Armor Dragon Skin Test_1.jpgNow, one of the offi­cers in charge of those tests is pub­licly diss­ing the Dragon armor, Jane’s Nathan Hodge reports.

In com­ments posted on an online dis­cus­sion forum, Karl Masters, direc­tor of engi­neer­ing for Program Manager — Soldier Equipment, said he recently super­vised tests of Dragon Skin, a vest made by California-​​based Pinnacle Armor.
“I was recently tasked by the army to con­duct the test of the 30 Dragon Skin SOV 3000 level IV body armor pur­chased for T&E [tests and eval­u­a­tion],” Masters wrote in a 6 June post­ing. “My day job is act­ing prod­uct man­ager for Interceptor Body Armor. I’m under a gag order until the test results make it up the chain.
“I will, how­ever, offer an enlight­ened and informed rec­om­men­da­tion to any­one con­sid­er­ing pur­chas­ing an SOV 3000 Dragon Skin — don’t.“
Masters added that he would not rec­om­mend the vest, par­tic­u­larly given the threat from 7.62 x 54R armor-​​piercing rounds.
“I do, how­ever, highly rec­om­mend this sys­tem for use by insur­gents,” he added…
Pinnacle offi­cials have con­sis­tently main­tained Dragon Skin passed the tests that were con­ducted in May, and said army offi­cials agreed to con­tinue tests at a later date. They say they are await­ing word from the army on the resump­tion of test­ing…
After repeated inquiries, an army pub­lic affairs offi­cial referred Jane’s to Pinnacle for more infor­ma­tion on the results of test­ing. Lieutenant Colonel William Wiggins, an army spokesman, said the safety of use mem­o­ran­dum regard­ing Dragon Skin is still in force.
“As our research com­mu­nity comes up with new prod­ucts, we’ll field them,” Col Wiggins said. “You can be assured that we field the best body armour in the world.” 

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June 29th, 2006 | Armor | 1987173 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2006/06/29/new-twist-in-dragon-armor-tale/New+Twist+in+Dragon+Armor+Tale2006-06-29+18%3A18%3A05david_axe You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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  1. Erica says:
    May 15, 2007 at 1:17 am

    Allan Bain is a nobody.What are you “BainDead”. Did you even grad­u­ate high school? Who are you? What is your agenda? Are you William’s lover? You fagget.

    Reply
  2. Erica says:
    May 15, 2007 at 1:18 am

    Allan Bain is a nobody.What are you “BainDead”. Did you even grad­u­ate high school? Who are you? What is your agenda? Are you William’s lover? You nobody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Reply
  3. Frank says:
    May 16, 2007 at 1:10 am

    Why hasn’t Army or Marines or any­one tested Dragonskin again? It’ almost like they just don’t care. I can see how they have lim­ited time with the war and all but they still need to exam­ine every­thing thuroughly. Especially if it could save lives. I’m not look­ing for a response to this, these are just ques­tions I won­der about here at home.

    Reply
  4. Trey D. says:
    May 16, 2007 at 8:56 am

    First rule of test­ing should be, that it be done by some­one who does not work for the vest’s com­pe­ti­tion. The sec­ond rule in my book is that the test­ing should be very inten­sive and take more than just a few days. The final rule should be, that you don’t diss the armor pub­licly, for one it doesn’t help your case since you work for it’s com­pe­ti­tion, and sec­ond they gave Dragon Skin the pub­lic­ity that it has today. Finnaly the vest will be retested but the test­ing will be done in a proffe­sional mat­ter in which it’s testers will only care if the armor per­forms bet­ter or worse than what we already use.

    Reply
  5. Erica says:
    May 16, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Great con­cept Trey. Remember when me and my brother told you about these forums? I told you there were self pro­claimed armor experts try­ing to make up crap. They ain’t arround no more though. HaHaHaHa!!!!!

    Reply
  6. Erica says:
    May 16, 2007 at 3:56 pm

    Allan Bain
    Dragonskin is not your idea.
    You have no cred­i­bil­ity.
    Now run away and ask for mur­ray to take you back.

    Reply
  7. Trey D. says:
    May 16, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Who is Allan Bain, I’m sure he has a self ser­vic­ing web­site but he sounds like a no cred­i­bil­ity douchebag to me and my girl Erica.
    And William what’s the mat­ter, can’t face the trauma of a real sol­dier makin’ points?

    Reply
  8. Allan Bain says:
    May 16, 2007 at 11:26 pm

    I am the inven­tor of Dragon Skin, it’s an undis­puted fact,except by no bod­ies who have never made any armor for sale to the mar­ket like you guys.
    Yourlanguage speaks vol­umes about your intel­li­gence and matu­rity, it reminds me of the Geico com­mer­cials, You know, “it’s so easy a cave­man can do it” except the cave­men are smarter than Erika and Trey. That would make you both some sort of Monkey crea­ture gib­ber­ing about things you can’t under­stand.
    Grow up, nobody takes your opin­ions seri­ously, Nobody! I am just try­ing to be cool and be hon­est with you so you can move on and maybe one day make some­thing of your­selves; maybe go to school or some­thing, and quit drink­ing and doing drugs. Clearly you both are on some kind of drug, and mak­ing fools of your­selves simul­ta­ne­ously.
    Hmmm, where do all these idiots come from?
    Good luck it sounds like your going to need it!

    Reply
  9. William says:
    May 17, 2007 at 7:39 am

    Trey in response to your sen­si­ble com­ment:
    First rule of test­ing should be, that it be done by some­one who does not work for the vest’s com­pe­ti­tion. The Dragon Skin was tested by the Army, not by any com­peti­tors.
    The sec­ond rule in my book is that the test­ing should be very inten­sive and take more than just a few days. Military armor test­ing is the most exten­sive, it is called a First Article Test, and is the most demand­ing test any armor faces out­side of actual use.
    The final rule should be, that you don’t diss the armor pub­licly, for one it doesn’t help your case since you work for it’s com­pe­ti­tion, and sec­ond they gave Dragon Skin the pub­lic­ity that it has today. The pub­lic diss­ing was in response to the direct attacks and mis-​​information about Interceptor and the Program Office respon­si­ble for field­ing armor. No one at PEO Soldier works for the com­pe­ti­tion, they work for the gov­ern­ment.
    Finnaly the vest will be retested but the test­ing will be done in a proffe­sional mat­ter in which it’s testers will only care if the armor per­forms bet­ter or worse than what we already use. This is exactly how test­ing is per­formed. This is the mis­sion of PEO Soldier. Their only con­cern is that the armor per­forms. If you can­not pro­duce a prod­uct that meets all of the cri­te­ria, you fail. If the prod­uct does not per­form after envi­ron­men­tal con­di­tion­ing, heat, cold,wet, etc. you flunk. If the armor fails bal­lis­ti­cally, guess what? It is not some­thing that the Army is look­ing any­time soon. Come back when it works properly.

    Reply
  10. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:03 am

    Nice try Allan, who do you think beleives your crap? Yes it is fun to see a self pro­claimed inven­tor of Dragonskin (yeah right) get his panties in a wad. Let’s get real here yeah I’m rib­bin’ ya, and you are prob­a­bly a smart guy. What I’m get­ting at is if you do have some­thing in the works then why do you even bother to waste your time on these redicu­lous forums. Yes I do drink, but I have never done drugs and I am a sol­dier of this coun­try. So if you want to talk shit go ahead.

    Reply
  11. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:15 am

    Hey, William I agree I’m not argu­ing that the FAT test­ing isn’t the proper method I’m just won­der­ing if the test­ing was totally com­pleted. The evi­dence, although very lit­tle, does not sup­port a com­plete First Article Test. I think it will be retested and the drama will be over but for now I think it looks promis­ing but then again what we use now isn’t bad. I just worry about the parts of Interceptor that aren’t as well pro­tected with hard armor. It would seem to me the solu­tion would be to add more hard armor thus adding weight and less­en­ing mobil­ity. The Interceptor has saved more lives than Dragonskin and I love any­thing we are issued, not because I have to but because it’s my job and I think all sol­diers have faith in the IBA sys­tem. At least I know I do.

    Reply
  12. Erica says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:27 am

    Allan you can’t even spell my name. You should use your sell-​​out money to go to col­lege. Trey is a respectable man and to say he’s on drugs is redicu­lous. He’s a col­lege grad­u­ate like myself and is being rede­ployed to Iraq with my brother later this sum­mer. What armor have you made for sale to the mar­ket? None. Further it looks like you take our opin­ions seri­ously or you wouldn’t respond to them in the first place. You expect us to buy your shit? Then learn proper eng­lish douche.

    Reply
  13. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:31 am

    Erica and I are gonna keep rib­bin’ any­one who thinks he’s a know it all. So keep it comin’.

    Reply
  14. Allan Bain says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Good in luck to you in Iraq, hope you make it home.
    Cheers

    Reply
  15. Allan Bain says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:51 am

    Good luck to you in Iraq, hope you make it home.
    Cheers

    Reply
  16. Trey and Erica says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:51 am

    William wake up Karl Masters even admits he works for Dragonskin’s com­pe­ti­tion.
    I agree FAT test­ing is the best way to go but, it was not com­pleted there­fore the results aren’t fair.
    The pub­lic diss­ing is a mat­ter of opin­ion. You have to admit that it got the ball rolling as far as pub­lic­ity goes.
    We agree that PEO sol­diers are unbi­ased but the prob­lem is that Karl Masters and James Zheng were in charge of the test­ing. They were forced to retired early. I won­der why. It was due to the fact that they did not fol­low pro­to­col when test­ing Dragonskin instead they chose to unpro­fes­sion­aly test it and then bash it pub­licly.
    The lack of respon­si­bil­ity is on their shoul­ders. And once again we are not inter­ested in see­ing a lesser capa­ble armor for sol­diers we just want the unbi­ased truth so that all sol­diers have no wor­ries about their armor’s capa­bil­i­ties.
    If any­one thinks we are doubt­full about Interceptor or any­thing sol­diers are issued, think again. I have faith in Interceptor because I know it per­forms. I would also appre­ci­ate fair test­ing with any­thing that could help me and fel­low soldiers.

    Reply
  17. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 9:55 am

    Yeah like that isn’t con­das­cend­ing Allan. I’m sure you’d like to see my dead body on a gore web­site but hey that’s o.k. At least I’m a part of some­thing with a good history.

    Reply
  18. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    Soldiers For The Truth is a very respectable group
    and they helped in this inves­ti­ga­tion.
    This is great, I have worked with them before and was amazed to see the results that can come from their research. I hope they do more and more sto­ries about this con­tro­versy because it looks like only sol­diers can get it through their heads what is going on.

    Reply
  19. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 12:51 pm

    Once again
    NBC NIGHTLY NEWS TONIGHT
    CHECK OUT http://​WWW​.SFTT​.ORG FOR MORE DETAILS AND ANYTHING SOLDIER RELATED
    Once again sorry patriot for the mul­ti­ple post­ings. I’m just giddy because I know they always get results.

    Reply
  20. Allan Bain says:
    May 17, 2007 at 3:38 pm

    Trey that’s repug­nant, I hope that your
    mission(s) have a valid effi­cacy, and that you ful­fill them with honor, and I hope that you make it home safe.
    But you and your friend Eriduh don’t know any­thing about armor or test­ing. It’s pretty evident.

    Reply
  21. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    I think you’re an idiot Allan. I know more about armor and test­ing than you ever will. Just because I have an atti­tude based opin­ion doesn’t mean I don’t know my shit. I have a mil­i­tary career and I wear armor for my job so I think I’m more enti­tled to talk about armor than you ever will be. I’m a Staff Sgt. and I’m in charge of 18 year olds with more qual­i­fi­ca­tions for armor based knowl­edge than you. You may be able to say what you said about Erica but if you knew either of us your opin­ions would not exist in that fash­ion. So to you Allan “Bain Dead” good luck in all your future endeav­ors cause you’re gonna need it. And that is truly evident!

    Reply
  22. Trey D. says:
    May 17, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    I just watched the NBC story and yes it was about Dragonskin. They are doing their own inde­pen­dent test­ing and Dragonskin is hands down bet­ter than Interceptor accord­ing to their bal­lis­tics experts. They are doing a fol­low up on sun­day and will show more results. Clearly the con­tro­versy has just begun and there will surely be more sto­ries about it in the future. Sounds like bad news for all the haters of some­thing that could save lives. By the way Mr Bain all my mis­sions have a so called “valid effi­cacy” because they aren’t sur­rounded in greed. I full­fill my mis­sions with honor because I don’t sell out on a whim either. I always make it home because other sol­diers lives depend on me and I depend on them as well. So you can stop try­ing to be con­das­cend­ing and face the fact that you are not an expert. You may have had an idea a long time ago but now all you can do is claim that you have some­thing bet­ter than Interceptor and Dragon skin even­though nobody has heard of any of it.

    Reply
  23. Jacob Daniels says:
    May 17, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    Allan it does seem like you are some­what using the Dragonskin lay­out on your new vest. What have you changed that makes it bet­ter than Pinnacle’s vest? Is there a pat­tent infringe­ment with the vest? Just cross you’re t’s and dot you’re i’s because there needs to be some­thing bet­ter and it shouldn’t be chopped down in it’s infantcy by a law­suit or some­thing. Ideas seem pretty good but is any­one pur­chas­ing or test­ing your stuff? I have to say that I’m a bit skep­ti­cal with the tita­nium stuff.

    Reply
  24. Allan Bain says:
    May 17, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Well thats great Trey glad to hear it. Keep up the good work then!

    Reply
  25. Allan Bain says:
    May 17, 2007 at 10:48 pm

    Jacob,
    Can’t tell you why it’s dif­fer­ent because of the secrecy around the devel­op­ment.
    Good advice to dot the i’s and cross the t’s, thanks for that, and yes I have. I have solid legal advice in this mat­ter that are experts on this type of Intellectual Property.
    At the end of the day the rea­son why Dragon Skin 7 years later hasn’t made the big time in sales to the mil­i­tary is price. Whether thats bad or good isn’t my call (i think it’s bad), but
    hon­estly I can buy a plate for 250.00 dol­lars that will take 10 shots of M-​​80 ball rounds at “real” NIJ veloc­i­ties, and it weighs less than Dragon Skin. So price is always an issue, and thats where we have seen the mar­ket from the begin­ning. Mr. Neal saw it dif­fer­ently, he wants to make 3000.00 a unit on the full cov­er­age level 4 vest. That’s absurd and greedy, and that com­bined with an ego issue has been the main rea­son why Dragon Skin hasn’t been adopted.
    Trey, pack it in pal, do your job and I will do mine. I wouldn’t think about try­ing to tell you how to train and run a unit, I have 12 NIJ cer­ti­fi­ca­tions, 5 patents in my name and 4 pend­ing, and have dealt suc­cess­fully with over 500 gov­ern­ments and munic­i­pal­i­ties over the last 20 years. I have also con­sulted for 7 major armor com­pa­nies. I know what I am talk­ing about.
    So save your opin­ions about my sta­tus as expert they mean noth­ing.
    I am frankly shocked that you would take such a hos­tile atti­tude using so many col­or­ful metaphors to insult me with such lit­tle infor­ma­tion. I hope you are smarter and more thourough in rep­re­sent­ing the USA on the bat­tle field. I would hate to think that we are being rep­re­sented by peo­ple who don’t do their home­work and make idle base­less neg­a­tive com­ments about other peo­ple you don’t even know. It’s sets a bad exam­ple, and you should be bet­ter than that.

    Reply
  26. Trey D. says:
    May 18, 2007 at 1:37 am

    Did any of you watch the NBC Nightly News Special on Dragonskin? Obviously not. Even the designer of the Interceptor admited that Dragonskin was bet­ter hands down. I’m so pissed that two men alone jeo­prodized thou­sands of men that could already be wear­ing this armor. Not to men­tion how many died. God bless those sol­diers. This story will cer­tainly lead to advance­ments. I can say for myself that I was hop­ing the ARMY guys were right. It’s too bad this kind of shit hap­pens. Those men Karl Masters and James Zheng have to live with the penal­ties of greed, as I like to call them, for the rest of their lives.

    Reply
  27. Anonymous says:
    May 18, 2007 at 3:14 am

    I can’t say I’m sur­prised that the man in charge of mak­ing the Interceptor body armor would pub­licly insist that a com­pet­ing design is inferior.

    Reply
  28. Trey D. says:
    May 18, 2007 at 8:29 am

    My ques­tion is why are high level offi­cials includ­ing I beleive a 3 or 4 star gen­eral being allowed to wear it. Certainly if it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for the rest of the mil­i­tary. The remark of the Brigadier General I beleive was “even Generals make mis­takes” with a grin from ear to ear. It’s like they know it’s bet­ter and don’t want to cough up the cash.

    Reply
  29. Samuel says:
    May 18, 2007 at 8:55 am

    Definately Trey, there is cer­tainly some­thing up when a General can’t even talk with­out a shit eatin grin on his face. I’m guess­ing he will be retir­ing early as well.

    Reply
  30. The Bard says:
    May 18, 2007 at 9:09 am

    I can’t under­stand how a high-​​ranking gen­eral claims, ON NATIONAL TV, that his staff might have bought him the dragon armor, and he might have worn it with­out know­ing? Ah, can we say DUH! Does he want the pub­lic to think he’s that stu­pid, and be impressed he made it that far in his career, or does he want the pub­lic to accept his lame excuse at face value, ’cause he’s so far up the chain? Either way we’re in trouble!!!!!

    Reply
  31. Allan Bain says:
    May 18, 2007 at 10:19 am

    Trey it is utter despa­ra­tion on the part of Pinnacle Armor to get a relic from the past and
    post him up on National TV to say that. Ok yea I would prob­a­bly wear Dragon Skin too, but that isn’t the point! The idea that only the best equip­ment for our ground troops is redicu­lous. I have seen it all over the world in every pro­cure­ment, the end users want the best, the com­man­ders have bud­gets and it never tran­scends to acquir­ing the best. Plus there are some draw­backs that you never hear about, things you don’t know and Pinnacle isn’t going tell you.
    I can tell you that we do have some­thing com­ing out this sum­mer that will be an improve­ment and address these weak­nesses. I also know of other enti­ties that have ver­sions as well that are per­form­ing quite well in devel­op­ment. If you really care about the troops and get­ting the best equip­ment avail­able tell Pinnacle to drop the price 30%, and then pass the Article One test­ing; believe me they will still make plenty of money.

    Reply
  32. Trey D. says:
    May 18, 2007 at 10:54 am

    Ya know Mr. Bain now you’re start­ing to talk my lan­guage. All I want is some­one to wake up and see that we do need bet­ter equip­ment and that there is other tech­nol­ogy that may be bet­ter. Dragon Skin might not even be that armor but some­one will surely make some­thing sim­i­lar that is tougher and more afford­able. I can’t per­suade Pinnacle to do any­thing, I would hope that they would at least try to work with peo­ple on the pric­ing. If they won’t then some­one else will and basicly they will go bank­rupt any­ways. Where do they get off sell­ing those vests for five grand? Hell just strap a used car to your body. I never was a fan of the pric­ing or pub­lic­ity but if it helps then it can’t be ignored. Hopefully some­one will come up with the right thing.

    Reply
  33. Jacob Daniels says:
    May 18, 2007 at 11:50 am

    Trey, you make a very viable argue­ment. The pric­ing is the only rea­son I can see that is ham­per­ing drag­on­skin. It’s just not rea­son­able to pay that much when you can get prob­a­bly two Interceptors for the same amount.

    Reply
  34. Trey D. says:
    May 18, 2007 at 12:09 pm

    I’d have to say that it is well worth the price if it lives up to it’s word. Come on our sol­diers lives are price­less and if we could give them a vest made of dia­monds we would. But some things just aren’t as prac­ti­cal as they should be.

    Reply
  35. Trey D. says:
    May 18, 2007 at 12:10 pm

    I’d have to say that it is well worth the price if it lives up to it’s word. Come on our sol­diers lives are price­less and if we could give them a vest made of dia­monds we would. But some things just aren’t as prac­ti­cal as they should be.

    Reply
  36. Allan Bain says:
    May 18, 2007 at 4:23 pm

    I agree with you all, the troops are worth the invest­ment, but I am just explain­ing what I have seen in over twenty years of ten­der­ing, bud­get­ing always fac­tors in some­where.
    I can tell you this we will pro­duce our level 4 FC vest for about 2800.00 dol­lars give or take in orders of 1000 units or more. 5K is redicu­lous.
    Good Luck to you in IRAQ and I mean that.

    Reply
  37. William says:
    May 19, 2007 at 10:30 am

    Hey Trey, I find it funny that every­thing about Dragon Skin is “Secret” but they claimed that the CIA tested and bought DS for their oper­a­tives. I am sure that they just revealed some con­fi­den­tial infor­ma­tion about capa­bil­i­ties that is at least an OPSEC vio­la­tion. I won­der how happy they are about that. Pinnacle is a bunch of money grub­bers, that is the ONLY REASON they are doing all this $$$$$$$$$$. There are in fact sev­eral com­pa­nies work­ing on flex­i­ble armor, this research has been going on for years. Everytime you hear about things like liq­uid armor that is part of the gov­ern­ment, uni­ver­sity research, and indus­try efforts to per­fect flex­i­ble armor. how­ever they all have one com­mon prob­lem, the design requires over­lap­ping joints which auto­mat­i­cally make the armor HEAVIER by 20 to 40 per­cent. Liquid armor is a con­cept that does not require over­lap­ping joints. So there are thou­sands of peo­ple work­ing a real solu­tion to the weight prob­lem. No one has found it yet. Least of all Murray Neal the cir­cus tent ring leader! He is mar­ket­ing a myth. Using sen­sa­tion­al­ism, lies and deceit. This is a farce being per­per­trated upon scared sol­diers and their fam­i­lies by some­one mak­ing a profit. The price of Dragon Skin by indus­try stan­dards is redicu­lous and an out­right ripoff. In the last 10 years no one with any cred­i­bil­ity has bought Dragon Skin, no one WORLD WIDE, even the Israelis didn’t look at it more than once. So now all of a sud­den the ARMY has a con­spir­acy to deny Dragon Skin. Well I don’t buy it, and nei­ther does any­one with any expe­ri­ence in the bal­lis­tics field. Pinnacle is the laugh­ing stock of the indus­try. They are tak­ing advan­tage of igno­rant and naive peo­ple and are sell­ing the con­cept of bet­ter armor. Pinnacle has a long way to actu­ally hav­ing an armor sys­tem that can meet mil­i­tary require­ments. Murray Neal knows this and is try­ing to force the Army to pay to per­fect his armor sys­tem, since they lack the expe­ri­ence and exper­tise to do so. He needs to hire the right staff and con­tinue devel­op­ment, when and if they get it right, some­one cred­i­ble may take them seriously.

    Reply
  38. Allan Bain says:
    May 19, 2007 at 11:23 pm

    Well said William

    Reply
  39. Allan Bain says:
    May 19, 2007 at 11:24 pm

    Well said William

    Reply
  40. William says:
    May 20, 2007 at 1:09 am

    Brad,you should go have a DNA test done, since me and your momma had a thing years ago. I hope you didn’t turn out ugly and “stu­pid”. By the way tell her I said hello, and if she ever gets rid of the loser to call me. Just tell her Willie Boy is here.

    Reply
  41. Dragon Slayer says:
    May 20, 2007 at 1:23 am

    Remember my pre­dic­tion about secret deal­ings with NBC and a 4 star gen­eral? Well now you know the rest of the story. Pinnacle and NBC orchas­trated this ambush of the Army along with General Wayne A. Downing. It will be inter­est­ing to see the Army and USSOCOM reac­tion to this whore who would sell our sol­diers out for money. I hope he enjoys spend­ing his Pinnacle allowance, it won’t last long after they are all in jail for fraud.

    Reply
  42. William says:
    May 23, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    This forum is dead, just like my sex life. Where are you Mr. Bain? Do you still wanna sex me?

    Reply
  43. WILLIAM is the douche says:
    May 29, 2007 at 2:19 pm

    Fag.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1-William sucks fat dicks!
    2William swallows!!!!!!Just ask Allan Bain!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    Reply
  44. Allan D. Bain says:
    June 8, 2007 at 9:58 am

    Very intel­li­gent post my friend, I think you have some deep seeded issues that can only be resolved at a Psychologist office.
    go to http://​www​.evo​lu​tion​ar​mor​.com and click on the
    Dragon Skin Vs. IBA
    BTW ~ We have named our new gen­er­a­tion of flex­i­ble armor and will adver­tis­ing offi­cially in October, 2007 in Law & Order Magazine
    Regards

    Reply
  45. Dragon Slayer says:
    August 26, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    I see that the cheer lead­ers for Dragon Skin have been quiet for some time now. Was the failed tests, the fraud inves­ti­ga­tions, the embar­rass­ing tes­ti­mony before con­gress, the NIJ revo­ca­tion of cer­ti­fi­ca­tion, the Air Force plac­ing Pinnacle on the denied par­ties list or the crim­i­nal inves­ti­ga­tion when they raided Pinnacle’s offices that put a damper on their enthu­si­asm?
    I do remem­ber one Robocop talk­ing about how his whole tac­ti­cal team wears Dragon Skin. I won­der how his team mates feel now that some truth has been shed on the Dragon Skin myth?

    Reply
  46. John says:
    September 12, 2007 at 11:58 am

    I really don’t under­stand all the vicous­ness con­cern­ing this prod­uct. I saw the Future Weapons show with the for­mer SEAL test­ing DS and it appar­ently did quite well. I guess what we need is to have some tru­ely objec­tive tests run by an equally objec­tive tester. One on One, Dragon Skin vs. Current Military Armor. Multiple Rounds, Multiple Hits and Handgrenade Servivability. That’s the only way we’ll ever know the truth. Maybe MythBusters could be con­tacted or if not, I will vol­un­teer my ser­vices for this test cycle.

    Reply
  47. Pay Close Attention says:
    September 21, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    Eisenhower: Supreme Allied Commander in WWII had this to say as he left the Presidency of the United States of America.
    http://​video​.stum​ble​upon​.com/​#​p​=​e​4​5​d​2​u​4​ssn
    Do us all a favor; Pass it on.

    Reply

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