Hezbollah have deployed a range of new high-tech weaponry in Southern Lebanon. Many commentators have noted the effectiveness of their anti-tank missiles against Israeli armor , with apparently reliable reports of Iranian-made copies of the AT-5 Spandrel and Russian-made Kornet-E and Metis-M anti-tank guided missile which were apparently supplied by Syria.
However, less attention has been paid to the reported use of missiles against infantry. In particular, in one instance
a missile that was fired at a building soldiers were staying in caused the building to collapse, claiming the lives of nine reservists. ”
That sort of effect does not suggest a HEAT warhead, which would punch a hole through a wall and do limited damage beyond. It looks more more like a powerful thermobaric blast, which produces a sustained pulse capable of knocking down walls. Both the Metis-M and Kornet-E missiles have thermobaric warhead options. Note that, as the Russians do not make a distinction, the makers describe Kornet warhead as fuel air explosive.
According to the Marine Corps Gazette, US Marine developed the tactic of using thermobaric SMAW-NE rounds in Fallujah: “SMAW gunners became expert at determining which wall to shoot to cause the roof to collapse and crush the insurgents fortified inside interior rooms.“
As previously noted with the proliferation of thermobaric rounds coming from China, Russia, Eastern Europe and possibly Iran, it was only a matter of time before they turned up in the hands of guerrilla forces. Thermobaric weapons are likely to cause greatly increased casualties for three reasons.
– As is clear from the above, they turn buildings from safe cover into death traps. (One US thermobaric test was called ‘Bring Down The House’). Armored vehicles, unless buttoned down, also offer little protection.
– They negate any benefits given by body armor; some studies (NB — PDF) suggest that wearing armor may actually worsen the injuries produced by a thermobaric blast enhancing blast effects by increasing target surface area and changing the effective loading function on the thorax.“
– The internal injuries produced may be much harder to treat in the field than more normal shrapnel wounds. Hence the rush for new diagnostic tools: “Early diagnosis of internal trauma induced by a primary blast wave via a field-deployable, rapid, and non-invasive technique will provide an invaluable tool in the subsequent success of treating such conditions”.
When Israel was accused of using fuel-air weapons earlier on in the conflict there was a wave of objections to this type of munition. It will be interesting to see whether Hezbollah denies or confirms using them, and whether any similar objections are raised.
– David Hambling
Excuse my ignorance, but what does it mean to “button down” an armored vehicle?
close the hatches, so the air dosent get sucked out of the vehicle.
There have been a host of photographs of Israeli-captured Hezbollah weaponry on the internet, and not once has a Kornet-E or Metis-M been identified among the crop of captured anti-tank missiles– just old AT-4s/AT-5 SPIGOTs/SPANDRELs and TOWs. This is a myth (similar, unsubstantiated claims were made by the US during the Iraq 2003 invasion) until actual photographic evidence of same is released, in my opinion.
Robert Zimmerman’s assertion that “a bronze medal in military technology earns a developing military a place at the winner’s podium, while failure to acquire high technology does not” is as true today as it was in 1994.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter whether Hezbollah had 10-year old Kornets and Metis-Ms versus 30 year-old Spigots and Spandrels. Either vintage of technology can inflict serious damage on a military that is not prepared for it. A key mistake often made by the military planners of developed countries is that they focus too much attention on countering “gold medal” technologies.
The knowledge and components needed for technologies, such as SACLOS or chemical thermobarics, have been readily available for years. I wouldn’t surprise me if a fairly sophisticated guerilla group like Hezbollah could get their hands on “bronze-medal” weapons without the direct support of Syria or Iran.
Given Hezbolla’s willingness to stage some atrocities to blame on the IDF, I can see them using a few teams of Pasdran gunners with Kornets et al as man portable physics packages wer reputed to have been deployed by the US, in extremely controlled conditions.
I’m no expert but I think it means to have all the hatches closed etc. etc.
So would it be safe to say that these munitions could easily disable/destroy the Israeli Merkva ?
From http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3288870,00.html
“Shortly after 1 p.m. Hizbullah gunmen fired several missiles at a structure in which the soldiers were staying. One missile hit the building, causing an arms cache to explode. Several soldiers were hurt as a result. A short while later, the structure partially collapsed, and a few other troops were hurt as well.“
Not a thermobaric arsenal, just coincedence of war
Good find, Observer — as you say if correct, this would explain the how the incident could have occurred without a thermobaric warhead.
Interesting post, and also interesting followup comments. Either way (thermobaric weapons or not), this points to a need to invest U.S. dollars into body armor that can be of use rather than a detriment with thermobaric weapons. I post of this at my page.
Sorry but isn’t it Israel who recently bought Lockheed Hellcat Thermobaric missiles from the US? I think these claims are misdirected, it’s Isreal that is guilty of using such weaponary, with many civillian casualties resulting.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14530.htm
McKnight–
Thermobaric weapons have little effect on buttoned AFVs, beyond damaging “soft” parts on the exterior such as antennas or rucksacks. It takes HEAT (or an EFP) to dent a Merkava.
I think the Telegraph article is just one more example of journalists accepting whatever their sources say at face value, and without any thinking or checking the facts. The statements in the article contain too many suspicious statements for the information to be true.
1) To begin with, the AT-5 Spandrel (Soviet name Konkurs) is usually vehicle-mounted, although a portable mount exists. See, for example, pictures of AT-5 applications at http://btvt.narod.ru/4/konkurs.htm
2) The tube of AT-5 is not 6 feet long, just 4. See for example, http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/at5spandrel.htm
3) If one bothers to check the site of hnn.co.il for pictures of captured Hezbollah weapons, it is easy to see the two main missiles apparently used: AT-3 Sagger, shipments of which to Middle East date back to pre-1973 times and American-made TOW dated 2001! http://www.hnn.co.il/images/albums/967_16248.jpg
In other words, there appears to be no traces of Kornets, Metis-Ms, or other more or less advanced Russian weaponry. If you have seen any photo that resembles Kornet or Metis-M tubes, feel free to point me to it. Note that the tubes are disposed of after firing, so there should be plenty of these in the mountains if the accusations are true.
If I am correct, however, the articles like the one quoted in the post appear to be simply a smokescreen designed to achieve one or more of the propaganda goals:
a) divert attention from the bad tactics used by IDF that resulted in the losses from mostly obsolete Hezbollah antitank arsenal
b) put attention onto Syria and divert it from one of the American allies that recently shipped American-made TOWs to Hezbollah
c) blame Russian and Iranian shipments of weapons to Syria for Israeli problems. This might be helpful to certain groups within our (US) political spectrum that attempt to draw us into an attack on Iran.
Technologist
http://real-questions.blogspot.com/
The IDF went into this with bad leadership… it was a flip flop approach to war. Try one thing… that doesn’t work… try another.. When you’ve got that approach to a war.. you’re either a)using a badly trained army or b) You just don’t give a sh1t.
PErsonally I think its a slight mixture of both.
In terms of weapons choice, just cause one person is using chemical weapons it doesn’t mean you have to.
Israel, have been in a pretty hard place of late, bombs flying in from every direction. lets not forget Scuds. I can see why they would want to stamp their feet, but in reality they’re not doing themselves any favours in this world by using ordanance that is prven to cause more damge to children than to guerilla army’s.
What is this crap about Israeli guilt? Did Hezbollah not attack them? Plus why are you all blaming the journalist for reporting this news. Army’s don’t throw stones any more people. Weapons are designed to kill your enemy with the least amount of risk to your own troops. Also FAE type weapons are not chemical weapons, and they have been used since WWII.
It sucks that civilians were killed in the fighting, but to call them innocent civilians is a joke. When the most violent Terrorist organization in the world is a part of every aspect of a your civilization. Then it becomes your responsibility to deal with the consequences of their actions. Just like a parent with a horrible child, at some point you must pay the price.
Stop blaming others for the idiots of the world. People need to stand up and say enough is enough. You want to pick a fight with me great. I don’t fight fair, the only fair fight happens in the ring. To quote Sean Connery
hmn,easy to see,that this is a american site.All are against Hizbolla.Must be all the american jews,who sits on the power.
Strange,when european people fight a underground war to get invaders out of their country,then they are heroic freedom fighters.But when Hizbolla(and other similar organisations) fight a similar war,then they are terrorisme.
Yes thermobaric explosive weapons are very bad in regards to the amount of damage they cause. Yes the soviets are known as the first to deploy these types of weapon systems. However to blame a thermobaric weapon on the collaspe of a building needs to be looked at more closely. It only takes 6 psi to collaspe a re enforced concerte building. Postive peak preasure from a detonation inside a building from a heat round can achieve this. Most heat rounds are a PIBD (point inatating base detonating) if a heat round hit the outside of the wall of a house the major amount of the blast energy would not be confined in the house. However if a heat round went through a window and hit a interior wall you would have a massive postive pressure increase inside the room (well into the 6 psi range). Also you would have reflected pressure (3–4 times increase) and mac stem bridging too. The houses they build in that area are not re enforced and dropping one would be very easy to do. If the bad guys really understood the application of thermobarrics (and had them) they would allow the Iserals to take a house and drop it on top on them. You would not have one case but MANY. Ask the idiots who took on the Marines in Fallugah, the Marines did bring down the house and crushed the idiot bastards.
The United States has spent billions in aid for many countries. Now our government(Bush and Cheney) have moved us in a different direction, they are making sure they get all the money. The middle east has oil so, they went into Iraq. Sadaam was a bad guy and should not have been in power but, he was and he blocked Bush from getting oil. His puppetmaster Cheney pulled his strings and had him invade Iraq. Now we are fighting in a civil war there and Americans are being killed daily. Does Bush care?, evidently not, he just sends more over and more die. I praise the troops and thank them for their sacrifices but, why are they there? Bin Laden and Al Queda were responsible for 9/11. Isreal is an ally of the US and has always been hated by the Arab nations. They are a closer target than the US and they are caught in the middle. Unless a miracle happens, the Israelis and the Arab nations will fight until there is only one man standing. Why?
Seems there are alot of agendas posting on here, anti western jihadists, anti Bush/Cheney anarchists, and those with legit points on intelligence and technology.
What I got out of it is the US military could benefit from more Thermobaric weapon development. How about that 66mm LAW concept only make it reloadable instead of one shot throw away (so the Gs can’t reuse the tube) and make it a HEAT round for light to medium armor with a Thermobaric jacket to increase lethality to personnel in confined spaces and immediate to point of detonation. That would be an awesome dual purpose tool!
(Put a sustained motor on it with a heat tracker and maybe we can make it a triple threat to low flying rotorwing and fixed wing aircraft!!! Now I’m dreaming.)
Hezbollah, smezbollah.…as long as the jihadists are not willing to accept a 2 nation peace there will be none and once the western world gets over its appetite for oil and develops alternative energy then the jihadists will be no threat to Israel or the West since the money will dry up to support them and the jihadist enabling nations will be too busy trying to figure out how to feed their people with petroleum and camel dung.….
Hey Darklord! Open your eyes and see what is going on. Try reading and studying a little history of Europe and you will understand that the ‘underground’ fighters were native country men and women trying to retake their homeland from an outside brutal army. The Hezbollahas are invaders (let’s say from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Egypt) trying to take away the country from the Lebononese people. Something is amiss when in one country the Shittes and Kurds are the U.S. protectorats, but at the same time these same groups are cursing and spitting on our name and help. Iran wants nuclear material? Good. Send all the worlds nuclear power plant waste there. Put Tom on the first drum to be burried.
No need to invade Iran. Simply pummel it from the sky, space, water, and of course, the Iraqi territory. We do not seek to, nor need to understand it’s criminal nature. Just as the former Persian Empire cares not to understand the true goodness of it’s enemies. It does not need to surrender, it’s neutralization as a threat to world peace and stability will be sufficient enough.
I have to comment on the writer that label the US as invaders. First of all in the 5000 modern years of Babylon Iraq has never been peaceful. Furthermore the statement that the US has an history of advancing on depleted Armies. I remember clearly that Saddam and his Cronies promised the ‘Mother of all wars‘. If my Army was so helpless then I would keep my bog mouth shut. Your comments are based on no more then ignorant hate of the US and it
well peep’s you must remember this “the winners or victors write the history books”
I like Robin Williams version ‘that when the “coward self bomber” (that’s my word) arrives at the gates he meets George Washington, who commences to beat the crap out of him.’ Alimofoup is screaming about ‘the 72 blonde virgins that have been promised to him by the Koran’ and some stupid clergy if he blows himself and lots of INNOCENT men, women, and children up. ‘George Washington replies that it’s 72 Virginians that he is going to meet and settle the score with.’
“Doing what you like is freedom” America today is doing what they like with the whole world and they claim they are free society trying to free the world. But they denied others to be free.
“Liking what you do is happiness” They are happy with all the atrocities the are committe everywhere including in Iraq,Afganistan,(indirectly in Lebanon,west bank, gaza and so on) and all the persieved enemy spots in the world.
Let BUSH not decieve its people anylonger. the people of Great Britain are more wisher and they are getting reid of BLAIR (the war Monger).
I have the following advise for the Intelligent people of America.
–Make peace with the world so that you will also be at peace as it was during CLINTON’s Administration.
–Bear in mind that no Empire last forever and so shall it be for the US.
–Understand more about Islam before you pass comments on the religion.
–Desist from using the tenents of reward in ISLAM the way you like.(virgins)
–Know that most of the so called terrorists are trianed by the US.
And finally pray for your nation to enjoy peace as it were in other free places in the world.
May this day in history ‚5 years ago, never happen to UNITED STATE agian(AMIN)