DefenseTech Military.com
  • Categories
  • Full Archives
  • Monthly Archives
  • About Defense Tech
Subscribe to RSS

About Defense Tech

Defense Tech exam­ines the inter­sec­tion of tech­nol­ogy and defense from every angle and pro­vides analy­sis on what’s ahead.

Tip Us Off

Tip for Defense Tech?

SEND IT!

It’s Confidential!

Categories

  • 'Canes
  • Afghan Update
  • Ammo and Munitions
  • Armor
  • Around the Globe
  • Av Week Extra
  • Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
  • Bizarro
  • Blimps
  • Blog Bidness
  • Body Armor Blues
  • Bomb Squad
  • Brownshoes in Action
  • Bubbleheads, etc.
  • Cammo Green
  • Catch the "Buzz"
  • Chem-Bio
  • Civilian Apps
  • Cloak and Dagger
  • Commandos
  • Comms
  • Contingency Ops
  • Cops and Robbers
  • Cyber-warfare
  • Data Diving
  • Defense Tech Poll
  • Defense Tech Radio
  • Dissent Tech
  • Door Kickers
  • Drones
  • DT Administrivia
  • Eat DT's Dust
  • Extra! Extra!
  • Eye on China
  • Fast Movers
  • FCS Watch
  • Fire for Effect
  • FOS Files
  • Friday Funnies
  • Gadgets and Gear
  • Going Green
  • Grand Ole Osprey
  • Ground Vehicles
  • Guns
  • Homeland Security
  • In the Weeds with Eric
  • Info War
  • Iraq Diary
  • Jarhead Jazz
  • JSF Watch
  • Just War Theories
  • Lasers and Ray Guns
  • Less-lethal
  • Logistics
  • Los Alamos and Labs
  • M4 Monopoly
  • Medic!
  • Mercs
  • Missiles
  • Money Money Money
  • Most Wanted
  • MRAP Edge
  • Net-Centric
  • Nukes
  • Old Skool
  • Our Shrinking Planet
  • PEO Soldier
  • Planes, Copters, Blimps
  • Podcast
  • Politricks
  • Polmar's Perspective
  • Popular Mechanics
  • Rapid Fire
  • Raptor Watch
  • Red Team
  • Retro-Futuro
  • Robots
  • Roll Your Own
  • Sabra Tech
  • Ships and Subs
  • Snipertech
  • Soldier Systems
  • Space
  • Special Ops
  • Star Wars
  • Strategery
  • Stray Trons
  • Tactical Development
  • Terror Tech
  • The Deadlies
  • The Defense Biz
  • The Peoples' Site
  • The Sunday Paper
  • The Tanker Tango
  • The View from Av Week
  • Those Nutty Norks
  • Training and Sims
  • Trimble on the Case
  • Uncategorized
  • Video Lounge
  • War Update
  • Ward'z Wonderz
  • You can run…

Archives

  • November 2009
  • October 2009
  • September 2009
  • August 2009
  • July 2009
  • June 2009
  • May 2009
  • April 2009
  • March 2009
  • February 2009
  • January 2009
  • December 2008
  • November 2008
  • October 2008
  • September 2008
  • August 2008
  • July 2008
  • June 2008
  • May 2008
  • April 2008
  • March 2008
  • February 2008
  • January 2008
  • December 2007
  • November 2007
  • October 2007
  • September 2007
  • August 2007
  • July 2007
  • June 2007
  • May 2007
  • April 2007
  • March 2007
  • February 2007
  • January 2007
  • December 2006
  • November 2006
  • October 2006
  • September 2006
  • August 2006
  • July 2006
  • June 2006
  • May 2006
  • April 2006
  • March 2006
  • February 2006
  • January 2006
  • December 2005
  • November 2005
  • October 2005
  • September 2005
  • August 2005
  • July 2005
  • June 2005
  • May 2005
  • April 2005
  • March 2005
  • February 2005
  • January 2005
  • December 2004
  • November 2004
  • October 2004
  • September 2004
  • August 2004
  • July 2004
  • June 2004
  • May 2004
  • April 2004
  • March 2004
  • February 2004
  • January 2004
  • December 2003
  • November 2003
  • October 2003
  • September 2003
  • August 2003
  • July 2003
  • June 2003
  • May 2003
  • April 2003
  • March 2003
  • February 2003
  • January 2003

Home » Guns » Lessons of the AK-​​47

Lessons of the AK-​​47

Larry Kahaner is the author of the just-​​published AK-​​47: The Weapon That Changed the Face of War. This is his first post for Defense Tech.
In our quest for the lat­est and most sophis­ti­cated weaponry we some­times tend to over­look a major suc­cess in low-​​tech arms. But there’s a lot we can learn from them espe­cially the AK-​​47 assault rifle.
LCpl Cheema on the AK-47.JPGThe AK-​​47 is the world’s most pop­u­lar mil­i­tary weapon. At last count, there may be as many as 100 mil­lion of these uncom­pli­cated but deadly rifles in use. That’s one AK for every 60 peo­ple. It is used by about 50 legit­i­mate armies as well as ter­ror­ists Osama Bin Laden calls it the terrorist’s most impor­tant weapon insur­gents, drug car­tels, para­mil­i­tary groups and guer­ril­las.
The rifle, first pro­duced in 1947 hence the name AK-​​47 for Automatic Kalashnikov 1947 has under­gone very few changes since it was first pro­duced by Soviet sol­dier Mikhail Kalashnikov. The fur­ni­ture has been replaced with low weight plas­tics, and a few other mods here and there depend­ing upon which of the 19 coun­tries pro­duced it, but it is essen­tially the same weapon it was 60 years ago.
What accounts for its suc­cess? Quite sim­ply: it works. Despite its low price (as lit­tle as $10 and as much as $300) and often shoddy work­man­ship, this rifle rarely jams, is almost inde­struc­tible, and is easy to fire with no train­ing. Overnight, it can trans­form para­mil­i­tary forces, thugs and street gangs into for­mi­da­ble armies.
It is not very accu­rate but can fire about 700 rounds per minute. Many west­ern mil­i­tary experts con­sider it a piece of junk, but it’s per­fect for poorly-​​trained sol­diers because they can ‘spray and pray.’ And indeed, it is a piece of junk com­pared to the M-​​16A2 now used in Iraq or the shorter bar­reled ver­sion M-​​4. These rifles are well built, accu­rate and engi­neered to close tol­er­ances. They are tech­no­log­i­cal things of beauty. The AK, on the other hand has loose tol­er­ances, feels like it will shake apart (but doesn’t) and won’t make any friends at the marks­men club. These loose tol­er­ances are the open secret to the AK’s almost jam-​​free his­tory. It’s also why you can drag it through mud, leave it buried in the sand and take it out a year later, kick it with your boot, and it will fire like it was cleaned that morn­ing. Again, because of its impre­ci­sion, the AK can fire poorly pro­duced ammu­ni­tion as well as ammo that has been sit­ting and dete­ri­o­rat­ing in the jun­gle or desert.
When the Defense Department offered M-​​16s to the Iraqi police and army, they refused. They wanted AKs which had to be bought from Jordan (the weapons actu­ally were made in Germany). Indeed, like their brethren in Vietnam, many US sol­diers are using AKs in Iraq despite offi­cial sanc­tions against the prac­tice.
As the Pentagon plan­ers pon­der what’s next for infantry firearms, they need to think in terms of sim­ple instead of com­plex and prac­ti­cal instead of sophis­ti­cated. There’s no rea­son why sol­diers should be using M-​​4s that over­heat or place con­doms over their gun bar­rels to keep out the desert sands.
The solu­tion has not come for lack of try­ing. From the late 1990s to the early 2000s, the Army was devel­op­ing a new assault rifle known as the XM8 project an out­growth of the Objective Individual Combat Weapon pro­gram, which was to pro­duce a new type of bat­tle rifle. The main goal of the XM8 pro­gram was to find a replace­ment for the M-​​16 and M4.
However, by late 2005, the XM8 was scrapped par­tially because of pol­i­tics; Congress was reluc­tant to spend bil­lions to out­fit sol­diers with new rifles while the Iraq war was drain­ing the trea­sury.
The real prob­lem may be that as the pro­gram pro­gressed, mil­i­tary plan­ners kept adding bells and whis­tles to the rifle sys­tem — even includ­ing an elec­tronic bul­let counter — and it became too com­plex, heavy and unwieldy. Designers would have done bet­ter to sim­ply aim for a new infantry rifle that works as well as the AK-​​47 and be just as sim­ple.
The AK may not be the best rifle for the US but design­ers can learn from Kalashnikov’s expe­ri­ence in build­ing the AK-​​47. He often found him­self guided by the words of arms designer Georgy Shpagin, who devel­oped the suc­cess­ful PPSh41 sub­ma­chine gun: “Complexity is easy; sim­plic­ity is dif­fi­cult.“
– Larry Kahaner

Share |

October 25th, 2006 | Guns | 2189112 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2006/10/25/lessons-of-the-ak-47/Lessons+of+the+AK-472006-10-25+15%3A34%3A44jason You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

« « Los Alamos Getting Sloppy (Updated) | Rapid Fire 10/​25/​06 (Updated Again) » »

This website uses IntenseDebate comments, but they are not currently loaded because either your browser doesn't support JavaScript, or they didn't load fast enough.

  1. Byron Skinner says:
    October 25, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    Good Morning Folks,
    Ah, at last the AK myth debunked. This story could have been writen exactly as is fourty years ago. As the author of the above arti­cle say the only virtue of the AK’s, there are now two types the 47 and 74, is that the damn thing works.
    ALLONS,
    Byron Skinner

    Reply
  2. Moose says:
    October 25, 2006 at 1:48 pm

    Same rea­son the M1911 is still so pop­u­lar. Reliable as all hell, solid, and you’ll know when it hits you. On the other hand, M1911 also shows that you can have all that and still have some pre­ci­sion. Hence, my love of the Mk. 17 SCAR.

    Reply
  3. wacki says:
    October 25, 2006 at 1:57 pm

    Hrm.…. it seems the peo­ple at my gun forum do not like this arti­cle at all.
    http://​www​.the​high​road​.org/​s​h​o​w​t​h​r​e​a​d​.​p​h​p​?​t​=​2​3​0​072

    Reply
  4. Tod Glenn says:
    October 25, 2006 at 10:39 pm

    As long as col­lat­eral dam­age remains a con­cern for US forces, the AK is not a solu­tion.
    There is a lot to be said for the reli­a­bil­ity of the AK, but the real real­ity is that in mod­ern war­fare, the rifle itself is rather insignif­i­cant in decid­ing bat­tle out­comes -= but don’t tell that to an Infantryman.
    The M-​​16 is now America’s longest serv­ing rifle. Perhaps not as reli­able as as the AK, but more accu­rate. It is bet­ter suited to mount­ing opti­cal sights, lasers and other items that inprove the sol­diers abil­ity to deliver effec­tive fire.
    But don’t expect to see any real improve­ments in the rifle any­way. The tech­nol­ogy has reached it’s apex. The next big step in infantry weapons will be with a whole new tech­nol­ogy. Consider the OICW/​SABR.

    Reply
  5. Harry Hamlin says:
    October 26, 2006 at 1:48 am

    .….and what was true for my unit in Vietnam forty years ago remains true. M14’s became price­less as backup SAW’s and pen­e­tra­tors of light cover.
    The first require­ment of an infantry weapon is that it func­tion reli­ably. Any per­puted advan­tage of tech­ni­cal sophis­ti­ca­tion is point­less when it doesn’t work. The 7.62X39MM car­tridge is to the 5.56MM as the 5.56 was to the 7.62 NATO (.308); a seem­ing devo­lu­tion in per­for­mance that masks a supe­rior util­ity, while the AK47 is a superb bat­tle weapon for short range infantry use. Lets face it, over a hun­dred meters is now the province of spe­cial­ized marks­men or mounted weapons. In prac­ti­cal terms it always has been.
    During World War II the Allied navies and air ser­vices dis­cov­ered that more sophis­ti­cated and capa­ble plat­forms were bat­tle win­ners, even though the crews were resent­ful of the required train­ing and increased main­te­nance. Somehow, this les­son has come to be applied in every area of force appli­ca­tion. It doesn’t always work, espe­cially in land war­fare. Usually you end up with 20–50% more effec­tive­ness at 20 times the price. The Hummer and the 1/​2 ton truck are an excel­lent exam­ple. You can’t make a Hummer an AFV, no mat­ter how hard you try, so go Hi-​​Lo with AFV’s escort­ing cheap trucks and jeeps and spend the money saved on improved sur­veil­lance. Similarly, you can’t make Joe Jarhead a killer at 100% yards in the heat of bat­tle. Give him a weapon that shoots a decent AP ALL THE TIME at the 30–40 meter range of urban com­bat. As for mount­ing acces­sories, an American vari­ant of the AK47 can have any damn mount­ing sys­tem we want. Just don’t get too fancy.…

    Reply
  6. Noah (the other one) says:
    October 26, 2006 at 6:11 pm

    … good for frag­ging treads and 90 day won­ders, too.

    Reply
  7. katsesama says:
    October 26, 2006 at 9:53 pm

    The ak is indeed a piece of reli­able sim­plic­ity,
    sim­plic­ity in oper­a­tion is indeed a good thing in
    any mechanism.however,simplicity with­out effec­tive­ness does not a war win.The ak was cre­ated with the express pur­pose of skir­mish war­fare in mind,a func­tion for which it is emi­nantly qual​i​fied​.it is an out­growth of the way the sovi­ets fought close com­bat in ww2,emphasis on CLOSE combat.300 meters or less.Effective within that enve­lope in the hands of poorly trained con­scripts and wahabist inser­gants, assum­ing their index­ing the anti­quated open,nagant inspired sights.
    in an age where you can mount an electro-​​optic
    on a finely tuned AR plat­form cham­bered in 6.5
    gren­del or 7.62 nato/​300 winmag.sweetspotted to
    strike at 600 meters and beyond,that sim­ple rifle
    and the close quarters,soviet era skir­mish war­fare
    doc­trine sud­denly goes straight out the window,as
    our friends the jihadis ar find­ing out,much to
    their cha­grin.
    Let the badguys have the ak’s and we,ll keep
    the refined prod­uct we have now.Johnny Jihad can
    go on rat­tling away with said sim­ple rifle,using
    the very inef­fec­tive tech­nique of beirut off­hand
    (i,e,fireing overhead,around corner,blindly).
    hope­ing that allah will direct the bul­lets into
    the infi­dels body(which will be pro­tected by a
    sapi plate,sorry hasan).While he’s doing allahs
    will the marine with the M-​​16a4 with ACOG reflex
    sight loaded with MK 262/​77grain sierra matchk­ing
    ammo will take calm,deliberate aim,hold breath and squeeze.The result will be one mar­tyr sent to his
    pre­des­tined reward with an empty kalash­nikov next
    to his now inert body and one marine,still liv­ing
    with 29 more chances to help mr mar­tyrs friends
    reach par­adise.
    This is the ulti­mate les­son of the sim­plic­ity
    to be found in the AK and its effectiveness.

    Reply
  8. Steven Burda, MBA says:
    October 28, 2006 at 1:30 pm

    Interesting read!
    Have you fired from AK47 before?
    Steven Burda, MBA
    http://​www​.linkedin​.com/​i​n​/​b​u​rda

    Reply
  9. ninnano says:
    October 29, 2006 at 9:52 am

    Not all weapon man­u­fac­tur­ers pro­duce low qual­ity AK-​​47s. I’ve shot myself a model that was deadly accu­rate upto ca. 600 meters range. It costed some 1000 euros and worked always like a charm.
    I wet­ted it, froze it at –40 cel­sius degrees, hit it repeat­edly to trees and ground, shot enough with it to make the bar­rel glow red hot (kids, that is HOT!), took it apart, cleaned, reassem­bled, … I had only one fail­ure to oper­ate in weeks of 24/​7 usage and that was because the box was lit­er­ally full of ice (the ammo couldn’t move any­more, I had to remove the ice).
    It is a very pleas­ant weapon to shoot with. It prac­ti­cally has no back kick for shooter and for aimer it’s pleas­ant push to back/​up and prac­ti­cally returns auto­mat­i­cally to the same spot. At 700m/​s those 7.62s make pretty holes to stuff and they work through light leaves and rain — unlike the faster smaller cal­iber stuff.
    AK47 and its deriv­a­tives > the rest.

    Reply
  10. R. Ryan says:
    November 3, 2006 at 5:29 am

    Nice arti­cle, but you need to brush up on your Russian. Avtomat Kalashnikov does NOT mean “auto­matic Kalashnikov.” Avtomat in Russian means “machine gun.”

    Reply
  11. James Fahey says:
    November 3, 2006 at 7:50 am

    Please remem­ber that the AK-​​47 is a copy of the (WW2) German Mauser MP-​​44, which was scaled up for the new round! (also German) Kalsashnikov is just the man who scaled the MP-​​44 for the new round!!!

    Reply
  12. B Richardson says:
    November 3, 2006 at 10:30 am

    The addi­tion of AK-47’s does not trans­form thugs into armies, it trans­forms them into thugs with auto­matic weapons. There is much more to being a sol­dier than a rifle, much more.
    And the OIC weapon pro­gram was never really aimed at cre­at­ing a replace­ment rifle for the US mil­i­tary. It was sim­ply an attempt by H&K to sell the US gov­ern­ment expen­sive hard­ware, for which there was no prac­ti­cal need. Once the OIC (20mm) pro­gram was scrapped for being imprac­ti­cal, some­thing any infantry­man could have told them years and mil­lions of dol­lars ago, the XM8 was spun off in an attempt to sal­vage at least some of the gov­ern­ment con­tract dol­lars H&K craved.
    The les­son to be learned from the AK-​​47 and from the MP-​​44 is that medium power rifle car­tridges fit the tac­ti­cal require­ments for an assault rifle. The M-​​16 needs a cal­i­bre change, more than it needs a redesign, although I agree that any design can be made bet­ter and you might as well add as many func­tional improve­ments as pos­si­ble while the cal­i­bre is being changed. But you can’t base design change on urban myth and sales pitches.

    Reply
  13. Bill McGraw says:
    November 3, 2006 at 12:34 pm

    I have to aggree with the guys about the cal­iber. All of that hydro­sta­tic shock hoopla is just that. And don’t believe any of that tum­bling non­sense either. M-16’s haven’t allowed the round to tum­ble since the intro­duc­tion of the A1 in the early 70’s.
    Sectional desnity is the key to knock­down power and any .30 cal round will hit harder than any .22 cal round. The same holds true for the .45 ACP verses the 9mm Parabellum in hand­guns. Even the cops gave up on 9mm hand­guns.
    What we really need is a move back to 7.62x52 (the good old NATO round) in a bet­ter plat­form (bullpup, bet­ter recoil buffer­ing, and 30 round mag­a­zines). That would give us supe­rior range, knock­down, and accu­racy to the old AK. And for up close and per­sonal defence an updated .45 (maybe the HK USP like you see the Delta boys using).

    Reply
  14. Willis P. Dunlevey says:
    November 3, 2006 at 4:40 pm

    Posted by: James Fahey at November 3, 2006 07:50 AM“Please remem­ber that the AK-​​47 is a copy of the (WW2) German Mauser MP-​​44, which was scaled up for the new round! (also German) Kalsashnikov is just the man who scaled the MP-​​44 for the new round!!!“
    In cor­rect. The AK-​​47 was designed to per­form the same job as the German MP series but shares lit­tle with the MP except over­all lay­out. The func­tion, oper­a­tion, and design philosopy are com­pltetely dif­fer­ent.
    There are some sim­i­lar­i­ties, but that is com­mon in war/​weapons. TO say that the AK-​​47 and MP series are copies would be sim­i­lar to say­ing that the SU-​​27 is a copy of the F-​​15.

    Reply
  15. David Honish says:
    November 3, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    The Israeli’s are no slouches when it comes to know­ing what does and what does not work in com­bat. Maybe that is why they designed their own ‘4th gen­er­a­tion Kalishnikov’ in the Galil rifle? Their choice of 5.56mm cal­iber to use exist­ing ammo sup­plies was not very inspired. Their cur­rent use of a lighter weight ver­sion of the Galil with mod­u­lar bar­rel lengths avail­able for dif­fer­ent mis­sions makes sense in their pri­mar­ily urban com­bat envi­ron­ment.
    If it was up to me, I think a matte fin­ish stain­less steel Galil cham­bered in the avail­able off the shelf 7mm-​​08 Remington would be about per­fect. The short action car­tridge of a 7mm-​​08 would be well suited for mil­i­tary use, and be an ade­quate one shot man stop­per that the cur­rent 5.56mm is not. It would still retain the mild recoil char­ac­ter­is­tics that make train­ing large num­bers of inex­pe­ri­enced shoot­ers more easy as well. It def­i­nitely could reach out and touch some­one with greater range and pre­ci­sion than any 7.62X39mm rifle.

    Reply
  16. Benjamin Davis says:
    November 3, 2006 at 10:48 pm

    The AK is a work of art. Allways goes bang, all­ways nails the tar­get, all­ways does the job. Every AK I have ever shot has been about as accu­rate as I am; not to brag, but I’m a bet­ter shot than the aver­age sol­dier. If you need 800 yard pin-​​point accu­racy use a sniper rifle; the 7.62X39 is per­fect for every­thing closer.

    Reply
  17. kelly tippett says:
    November 6, 2006 at 1:29 am

    fFnd the peo­ple that designed the Bell and Howell filmo movie cam­eras and put them together with the Ak-​​47 peo­ple. You’ll have a durable and accu­rate weapon.

    Reply
  18. RHYNO says:
    November 16, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    I THOUGHT THE X-​​8 WAS DEAD. POSTINGS SAID IT COST TOO MUCH, DIDN’T OFFER ANYTHING EXTRA, THAT THE M-​​4 WAS SUPERIOR COZ OF THE EXTRAS YOU CAN ADD. SAME WITH THE M-​​16A2. I READ THERE IS NOW AN M-​​16A3, FULL AUTO, AND BETTER THAN X-​​8, AND THE AK. SO, WAT IS TRUE? SOMEONE FIND IT AND POST IT. EVERYONE IS AN EXPERT, SO FIND THE TRUTH, AND SHUT THEM UP. IS THERE A FULLY AUTO M-​​16A3?

    Reply
  19. Nick says:
    November 27, 2006 at 1:50 pm

    As I under­stand it, the AK-​​47 reflects the over­all weapons design phi­los­o­phy of the USSR/​Russian Federation: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The T-​​34 also was a sim­ple design, uncom­pli­cated, yet reli­able and easy to pro­duce and repair. The Red Army saw the Wehrmacht’s sophis­ti­cated (for the time) tanks break down and turn into expen­sive, use­less mon­u­ments to over-​​design and over-​​engineering. Although this design phi­los­o­phy goes hand-​​in-​​hand with a mass con­script army such as the Red Army, I won­der if it will con­tinue as Russia goes to a pro­fes­sional army.
    As for the abil­ity of the AK-​​47 to func­tion in adverse envi­ron­ments, this is just where the US will fight for the fore­see­able future. The deserts of Iraq, Afghanistan, (and Iran?), the jun­gles of Southeast Asia, are dusty, dirty, wet, humid, and over­all rough. Why send US forces to fight there with­out a weapon that will stand up to the local envi­ron­ment?
    It seems telling that more than a few US forces in Iraq have dropped their M-​​16s in favor of the AK-​​47, just as they did in Vietnam. Friends of mine who fought in Vietnam tell me the AK-​​47 was supe­rior weapon for one sim­ple rea­son: it was there when you needed it.

    Reply
  20. Dan says:
    December 9, 2006 at 3:20 pm

    Bring back the M14. Great Desert weapon. Very hard to jam and a good reach out and touch range. It is a lit­tle heav­ier than the AK but with mod­i­fi­ca­tions the weight can be reduced.

    Reply
  21. Tony says:
    December 26, 2006 at 9:53 pm

    I think that the main bat­tle weapon should not be set. It should be flex­i­ble, based on loca­tion and char­ac­ter­is­tics of the enemy. For exam­ple, over in Iraq the sol­diers should be able to use any and every AK they can get their hands on. If they need more, buy some new AK-104’s, out­fit each unit, and carry on. At the end of the day, when all is said and done, sell off excess weapons; either back to the occu­pied coun­try gov­ern­ment, gun deal­ers, or the U.S. to licensed individuals/​dealers.
    When a new sit­u­a­tion arises (oh, it will) just adapt to the environment.

    Reply
  22. William Cramer says:
    January 10, 2007 at 11:00 am

    IMO the ruger mini 30, is the happy medium between the loose Ak and the pre­cise m16.
    The 7.62x39 round is a very clean fir­ing round. I believe this is another aid to the AK.
    The mini 30 uses sim­ple assem­bly like the AK, but is much tighter and more accu­rate.
    It has a wood stock, which could be replaced with mod­ern lighter man made prod­ucts, and needs a flash sup­pres­sor.
    My brother has an AK, and I the Mini 30. This is how I can com­pare them.
    I think we have the tech­nol­ogy to make a rifle wor­thy of the stressers of war, with­out spend­ing
    bil­lions to remake the wheel.
    The more com­pli­cated a weapon, the more it will way, or the more thought it will take to oper­ate it. The Ak is lock, load and fire.
    Anything more may get the sol­dier killed.
    How about just mod­i­fy­ing what is out there rather then try­ing to design some­thing from scratch.

    Reply
  23. SSG Clark says:
    April 20, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    My first thought before I read the other com­ments, but after I read the ini­tial arti­cle on the M16 ver­sus the AK47 was pretty close to the first com­ment posted on here. Use the mini-​​30 with some minor mod­i­fi­ca­tions such as a syn­thetic stock. The old phi­los­o­phy of wound one Soldier and take three out of the fight, due to it tak­ing two Soldiers to carry off a wounded one doesn’t work in our present the­ater. The 7.62X39 is a much bet­ter kill round, which is what we need. I haven’t had to shoot a man yet, but I’ve tried out a great many dif­fer­ant cal­ibers on white tailed deer, and from that I can tell you that I’ve shot a white tail a dozen times with a CAR 15, basi­cally the civil­ian ver­sion of the M4 in semi-​​auto, and shot white tail with the mini 30, once with much bet­ter effects. There is of course another option. I believe I saw, years ago, a ver­sion of the HBAR in 7.62X39 as well. I have lit­tle doubt that the 7.62X39 round is the way to go, and I do know that the mini 30 is an excel­lent weapon. My opin­ion is that we defi­nately need to change over to the 7.62X39 and test it in a vari­ety of rifles. I’m fairly cer­tain the mini 30 with minor mod­i­fi­ca­tions would fair the best, but I also believe that Soldiers need to train on more than one weapon, and have the right tool for the job. When going out on patrol bring the mini 30. When work­ing a check­point a shot­gun with sup­port from a much larger crew serve weapon would be best, and in urban war­fare a mix­ture of dif­fer­ant weapons, since sit­u­a­tions vary greatly, would be ideal, but as far as the M-​​16 and the M-​​9 the beliefs on which they were intro­duced sim­ply don’t work on today’s battlefield.

    Reply
  24. Demophilus says:
    May 10, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Don’t for­get that the AK’s dura­bil­ity and sim­plic­ity even­tu­ally blew back on the Russians. In build­ing the per­fect weapon for Third World armies and insur­gents, they effec­tively armed the Chinese, muja­hedin and Chechens. The excel­lence of your weaponry can come back to haunt you.
    As to the XM8, IIRC, it had a prob­lem with the plas­tic receiver melt­ing in full auto fire. Maybe not a good idea, for gen­eral issue to your own troops. Maybe not a bad idea for arm­ing proxies.

    Reply
  25. fmJK-47 says:
    September 21, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    Personally, i don’t care for either the kalash­nikov or the M16. The M16 has bet­ter long range performance,(that i like), but it’s killing effect after the round has decreased below 2700 fps. leaves to be desired. It is fairly accu­rate though, i admit. The AK is even less appeal­ing to me. The 7.62 Soviet’s wound­ing capa­bil­i­ties are exag­ger­ated at best, this com­bined with the AK’s inac­cu­racy in full-​​auto makes it a very short range weapon. It is extremely reli­able how­ever.
    M16 Range-​​600 yrds.
    Ammunition-5.56x45mm NATO
    Kalashnikov AK-​​47 Range-​​350 yrds.
    Ammunition– 7.62x39mm Soviet

    Reply
  26. h jony says:
    October 1, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    i m lebanese
    i sow to many fights since 1975 dur­ing the civil war the ak 47 was the best in close com­bat between build­ing . exam­ple if you need to cover your friend in his attempt to shoot rpg whith m16 the 30 rounds get fin­ish quiqly and your friend is in the mid­del of the street tak­ing bul­lets from ene­mies ‚the ak 47 is slower in auto fir­ing
    and give to much noise to scare the ene­mies located in less then 200meters away. in com­bat between build­ing the m16 it is not good as ak47 espe­cially in citys
    lebanese tiger

    Reply
  27. lebanese tiger says:
    October 5, 2007 at 7:17 pm

    ear Oldominion
    if you respond to my com­ment maybe you miss under­stood me i meant that the AK47 is bet­ter than the M16 in street fight­ing because it is slower in auto fir­ing you could have enough times to shoot when you cross a wide road or cov­er­ing your friend when his prepar­ing to shoot an RPG7.the m16 it is very fast you could have an empty mag­a­zine while you didn’t cross the street yet.
    when i wrote it give to much noise i meant it have a good psy­cho­log­i­cal effect on enemies.but i pre­fer M16 in moun­tain or prairie because it have very good impact due to high veloc­ity of it is 5.56 amo.

    Reply
  28. Phil White says:
    March 22, 2008 at 3:20 pm

    Well hav­ing read all the com­ments I thought I’d throw my two cents worth in.
    I’ve owned both rifles as well as the Springfield M1A1. If things turned to crap and I had a choice of rifles to rely on for pro­tec­tion of myself and fam­ily I would choose my AK47. Why? It’s not going to break, stop work­ing or need clean­ing every 100 or less rounds. Accuracy is ade­quate for nor­mal pro­tec­tion needs and the 7.62x39 round has very good pen­e­tra­tion unlike my AR15 in M4 con­fig­u­ra­tion. I love my AR15’s and more often than not if I’m going out plink­ing I’ll take it along and use the Aimpoint optics. My sec­ond choice would actu­ally be my Springfield M1A1. Simple? No it’s not but it’s pretty darn reli­able and will cer­tainly reach out and touch some­one. It’s also very accu­rate. That’s also why the mil­i­tary has taken them out of moth­balls yet again for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. Google des­ig­nated marks­man and see what they are shoot­ing most often.
    For me at least in a real world sit­u­a­tion I have to put my AR15’s in third place with the AK first then the M1A1 in sec­ond place.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Click here to cancel reply.

Spam Protection by WP-SpamFree

By commenting on this topic you agree to the terms and conditions of our User Agreement

    Today's Hottest Topics
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
    • Pinnacle's New Armor
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
    • BREAK-BREAK: Units to Get New Camo Revealed
    Recent Comments
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
      I'm disappointed. When are they going to make clothes...
      Nadnerbus
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
      Part II : * USMC attempts to make a single seat (no...
      freefallingbomb
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
      Part I : I think we're not the only ones on the...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part III : Guided missiles will also be programmed to...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part II : If a tank shoots at another tank at only 5...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part I : To the poster "Will" : You wrote:...
      freefallingbomb
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
      Yeah, I don't get it. The "Dragon...
      Ptsfp
    • Pinnacle’s New Armor
      Should wikipedia Ned Kelly.He used armour that worked in...
      Nick
    • UPDATED: Details on Army’s New Afghanistan Duds
      Marines win agin hoo rur
      greg
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
      To the poster "batvette" : You wrote:...
      freefallingbomb
    Recent Articles
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
    • BAE to Market Mantis UAV to North America
    • Pinnacle’s New Armor
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
    • Northrop Invests Own Money In Fire Scout
    • IMINT: French Fashion Mavens Model MultiCam
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
    • Super Cavitation and the Truth
    • Mantis Begins Search For Prey
    Recent Hot Topics
    • Marines Quiet About Brutal New Weapon
    • The Osprey has Landed
    • UPDATED: Details on Army's New Afghanistan Duds
    • Iraq Cyber Attack and the DigiSEALs
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
    • Pinnacle's New Armor
    • (Proof) The Osprey Has Landed
    • Grim Wanat Footage
    • REPLACEMENT ARM, GOOD AS NEW
    • IMINT: French Fashion Mavens Model MultiCam
  • Channels: Military.com | Military Benefits | Military News | Off Duty | Join the Military | Military Education | Veteran Jobs | Military Money | Military Deals | Military Family | Military Community
  • Military.com Network: Military.com | MilBlogging | Defense Tech | DoD Buzz | SpouseBuzz | Fred's Place | GI Bill Express
  • Services: Army | Navy | Air Force | Marine Corps | Coast Guard | National Guard | Military Spouse
  • About Military.com About Us | Advertise With Us | Press | Affiliate Program | Monster Network | Help | Feedback | Privacy Policy | User Agreement | © 2009 Military Advantage