Comments on: “Surge”: What’s the Use?

By: ARogers

ARogers — Tue, 08 May 2007 20:41:37 +0000

I disagree with this article. What is better unless you have been there? My Marine is hoping for more Cougars because he has seen too many of his squadron die in armoured Humvees. He has second tour coming up in August.

By: JimF

JimF — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:15:52 +0000

I believe we also have to lay off the ubiquitous humvee. The humvee (armored or semi armoured ) is a divine piece of automotive locomotion.
The concept we have a vehicle of this flexibility, capacity and protection on a standard platform in the 6 ton range has given our troops outstanding flexibility (iraq has many bridges,trails and overpasses in rural areas with a 6ton (or less) limit. The concept the m1114 (and some armour kits) was already in production was a lifesaver. (although many will argue slow to ramp up) Sure, it will be replaced.…. by improved Humvees. The actuality you can actually put 2000 lbs of metal on it and still have something useful good for about 60000–80000 miles is great.
This vehicle on the standard Humvee platform has given many units a 85–95% servicibility rate despite probably 100 million 200 million? miles a year. It gives life saving protection in all but the most extreme cases (considerable explosive, direct hit)
Try to remember guys that there have been almost 33000? ied attacks in 3 years (the US govt claims 300,000 attempts 90% are foiled/fail) plus countless other skirmishes and ambushes and you have seen perhaps 150–200 propaganda videos of Humvees damaged/destroyed on the internet. You are seeing the best they can produce, and some of them are probably near misses. (Think of how many outtakes of Junior Samples trying to get his line right on Hee Haw existed)
The meerkat, cougar, Buffalo, Rhino Runner(30 ton) etc are specialized and important vehicles which will see about 500 total operating in Iraq. They have nowhere near the go anywhere/availability/flexibility of the Humvee.
There are 22,000? humvees in Iraq vs 300 (20 ton)Strykers, 2000? (15 ton) m113s 500?(60 ton)M1 abrams and about 600 (15 ton)m1117s for a reason. Hummers are pulling the vast majority of important weight. Nothing is going to replace them. However, they may be joined by another 400–600 or so m1117s as an important complement.
If Vietnam was the helicopter “Huey” war (poor country, no roads, Jungle ) Iraq is the Humvee war (oil rich, lotsa roads, city based combat) Vietnam could not be fought without helicopters (millions apiece, 4000–10000 lost/damaged). Iraq could not be fought without the Humvee. It is a road war. (100-200k apiece 900‑4000 lost/damaged?)
Maintainence and logistics per mile of a vehicle is roughly the square of the weight so a 12 ton vehicle has approximately 3–4 x the logistical requirements of a 6 ton vehicle, with a 20 ton vehicle about twice that. and a 70 ton Abrams 4-6x that.
Theres no way you can fight the enemy the way we are putting 100 to 200 million road miles a year on a non– standard chassis or over about 6 tons. The iraqi bridge and infrastructure alone would limit your movement with bigger vehicles in many cases.
If but for the Humvee we would be out of the fight. The Jeep or Land Rover would be a joke. If the war is “successful” it will be a large part due to the Humvee chassis and its ability to adapt
–jjf

By: Max

Max — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:08:27 +0000

“20 000 more sniper targets.
Posted by: Bruce at January 11, 2007 04:31 AM“
Or 20 000 more muzzles pointed at the snipers.
Finally-we’re going to try to limit Syrian and Iranian support for the bad guys.….. I hope.

By: Bruce

Bruce — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:31:02 +0000

20 000 more sniper targets.

By: Max the Mediocre

Max the Mediocre — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 02:23:50 +0000

I’m just going to paraphrase one of the RAND Vietnam-era Motivation and Morale reports:
Evade and hold beats sweep and clear.
If you send a force the insurgents can’t beat, and they’re smart, there won’t be a battle. You won’t find the insurgents. When you leave, they’ll reappear. This gains you nothing. You have to stay. You have to stay until the country is stable.

By: Max

Max — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:05:42 +0000

You guys are reaching new idiotic heights with that Baltimore Sun quote.
SO NOW ARMORED HUMVEES AREN“T GOOD ENOUGH!?!?
Defensetech and the Sun both had stories about how the up armored hummers were needed so badly a few years ago! Everyone knew their were better solutions then-now you target that weakness now?
I drove an 1114 for a year knowing their were better solutions-noone reported on-but now when you want a push an agenda you plug it.
The press once again, has show they are sick!
Murdoc is right on the money, apparently our move into Sadr’s territory has been forcing the bad guys to stand and fight-we need to keep the pressure on.

By: paul

paul — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:27:31 +0000

20,000 more troops in Baghdad?
Let’s see, assuming they are all COMBAT troops (and current backup personel can cook the extra 60,000 meals a day and wash 120,000 dinner and dessert plates), and those 20,000 work in SHIFTS, then that is only one extra combat soldier for every 1,000 Baghdad residents — Yeah, that’s gonna make a big difference.
Those poor boys are just gonna be picked off like fish in a barrel.

By: Nicholas Weaver

Nicholas Weaver — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:17:31 +0000

Murdoc: With all respect, since you are the military expert and I’m just a civilian with a nasty imagination…
I don’t see that 20k offensive troops would work.
Currently, the US stays out. But lets say I’m al Sadr and the US carries out this strategy and wants to come into Sadr City, and do a little red-teaming from Sadr’s point of view…
a: All the good troops, I tell to evaporate. Put your AK-47 back in the closet (it is LEGAL, remember?), hide your heavier artillery, and just act like everyone else because you are everyone else.
The US is going to leave, the Sunnis will still be there tomorrow.
The US wants a pitched battle, don’t give it to them. “No Mahdi army here. No sir”.
b: Encourage EVERYONE else to do the same. And keep the cameras rolling. If the US starts evacuating the area to try to pull a Falluja or other strategy which requires barracding off Sadr City shout “Ethnic Cleansing”. Modern telecom is priceless, use it.
Get Malaki pissing on the US. He’s done it before, with the US pulling the barracades from around Sadr city (what happened to the kidnapped/missing US soldier which triggered that incident, anyway?)
c: The local hotheads, however? Encourage em. Slip em a little extra ammo, and watch from a distance. Tell them to snipe, to IED, to ambush, etc. Hit and run, NEVER engage in fixed battle.
Have them target the Peshmurga and Sunni (any shiites in the Iraqi army just would refuse to fight), not the US primarily, they are less well armed.
Any teenager who’s had his door kicked in by the US army, watched his sister and mother forced to the ground, should afterwards receive a discrete visit and an AK.
d: Target all disloyal translators. Anyone you have who speaks english, you try to infiltrate the ranks of US-translators. Then you try to kill all those who aren’t shiites. The goal is to make the US deaf, or even better, listening to the wrong thing.
How would an extra 20k troops, in a population of 2 million or so, be able to respond?

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:16:32 +0000

“clearing out neighborhoods of guerrillas, and holding the areas for the good guys”.
Wake up buddy, there are no guerrillas or good guys.Iraq used to be run by the minority Sunnis — now the majority Shias are fully armed and won’t let the Sunnis get control again In fact they are going to ethnically cleanse them (payback time).
Coversely, the Sunnis can only fight to the death to try and prevent their extermination.
The US military is now just another tribe in the mix.

By: ~WARRIOR~

~WARRIOR~ — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:51:10 +0000

Clear Hold Build —
Westmoreland’s Vietnam-era
complaint about clear-and-hold remains just as valid today:
The practice left the enemy free to come and go as he
pleased throughout the bulk of the region.” He also pointed
out that, in Vietnam, there were “simply not enough numbers
to put a squad of Americans in every village and hamlet.“
SOME IDIOTS — JUST CANN’T LEARN.
The insurgency in Iraq after the so-called