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Home » Planes, Copters, Blimps » Armor Lack Behind Copter Crashes?

Armor Lack Behind Copter Crashes?

Three American heli­copters have gone down in Iraq in a lit­tle more than a week. Is there any­thing behind this col­lec­tion of crashes? Or is just lethal coin­ci­dence — part of what hap­pens when troops do some­thing death-​​defying, over and over again? I asked Defense Tech pal ME, a for­mer Kiowa Warrior pilot who served in Iraq, to weigh in with his thoughts.
copter_ME1.jpgI haven’t heard of any rea­son as to why we’re los­ing more lately, but we also haven’t lost any in a long time prior to this — I think it’s reflec­tive of some­what of the odds catch­ing up to us and an increased com­bat oper­a­tions tempo.
[That said], I would point out that US heli­copters aren’t that heav­ily armored. [Something David Axe noted about last week’s Blackwater copter crash — ed.] They have blocks of armor pro­tect­ing some key parts of the engine, and crew com­part­ments, but it’s not nearly com­pre­hen­sive. Most don’t have flare sys­tems, and their only active coun­ter­mea­sure against IR mis­siles is an ALQ-​​144 jam­mer. Relatively speak­ing, there is very lit­tle pro­tec­tion from direct small arms hits.
In my opin­ion, our great­est threat was from small arms and RPGs while oper­at­ing at low alti­tude and low air­speed. My troop was under stand­ing orders not to fly above 500 feet AGL (above ground level) or under 60 knots — and never hover unless absolutely nec­es­sary. At low alti­tude — we felt that it was key to min­i­mize the time avail­able to acquire us as a tar­get. We used the ALQ’s but at the time I was there, we didn’t see much threat from SAMs [surface-​​to-​​air mis­siles]. Towards the fall of 2003 we did start get­ting more reports of SAM engage­ments — spi­ral smoke trails arc­ing up, rather than lob shots from RPGs, but in our flight regime, AK’s and RPGs were the biggest threat.
The Kiowa Warrior… has very lit­tle armor [see the pics]. The Blackhawk is sim­i­lar, and the Apache has rel­a­tively more. A friend of mine who was a troop com­man­der in the (in)famous deep strike to kick off OIF said the only pos­i­tive from that mis­sion was that they learned that the Apache could soak up a lot of small arms fire and keep fly­ing. When you look at the armor though, it’s easy to see how a few small arms rounds in the wrong place can bring a bird down.
There are some other issues with the ALQ-​​144. Some of them are clas­si­fied. Some are mun­dane: they’re dif­fi­cult to keep oper­a­tional in the desert, and must be cleaned to be effec­tive. They also must be turned off and on as part of a land­ing check­list (see my next point). The Blackwater birds don’t appear to have them at all. If there are new sup­plies of SAMS com­ing in, they may be much more effec­tive than RPGs and AKs.
Complacency kills, espe­cially in an envi­ron­ment as unfor­giv­ing as Iraq is. With high temps and fly­ing at high gross weights, there is lit­tle per­for­mance mar­gin. Combat maneu­vers take power, and famil­iar­ity (read bore­dom) take their toll, even on expe­ri­enced pilots. After a few months, I could fly from Baghdad to Al Asad with­out a map, and knew every neigh­bor­hood in between — and it made me too casual at times, about mis­sion prep and pro­ce­dures. As pilots go back for repeat tours, they may fall into that even more quickly.

“Since May 2003, the U.S. mil­i­tary has lost 54 heli­copters in Iraq, about half of them to hos­tile fire,” accord­ing to the AP.

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January 30th, 2007 | Planes, Copters, Blimps | 343827 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2007/01/30/armor-lack-behind-copter-crashes/Armor+Lack+Behind+Copter+Crashes%3F2007-01-30+21%3A00%3A23hambling You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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  1. Vash says:
    January 30, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    Increasing the armor of those birds would increase their weight, mak­ing them less effec­tive in com­bat. Their flight char­ac­ter­is­tics would go down with exist­ing engines while con­sum­ing more fuel, or they would con­sume even more fuel with more pow­er­ful engines. Without more fuel the air­craft range decreases as is the ammount of time it can stay in bat­tle or on patrol. If you increase the fuel load the weight has to come off some­thing, most prob­a­bly weapons pay­load. Either way you will have less to sup­port the troops on the ground with.
    These are air­crafts, not ground vehi­cles.
    Besides USSR had a highly armored hind, which seemed to have faired ter­ri­bly in afghanistan.

    Reply
  2. DT.fan says:
    January 31, 2007 at 11:53 am

    Hmmm.. the hind is a big bird.. if I remem­ber it’s an attack chopper/​troop trans­port.
    There really is no easy answer… Weapons are design to kill… it’s all esca­la­tion…
    I still think a law­ernece of ara­bia approach would prob­a­bly be bet­ter…
    For get react­ing and ‘patrol­ing’.
    How about infil­i­trat­ing and blending?

    Reply
  3. bbot says:
    January 31, 2007 at 6:21 pm

    The hind had an armored cabin, but the wind­shield was nor­mal aviation-​​rated glass, and wasn’t bal­lis­tic resis­tant. The Afghans used hunt­ing rifles, which are pre­cise com­pared to the AK, and aimed for the pilots.

    Reply
  4. Greg says:
    February 1, 2007 at 8:38 am

    The heli­copters fly­ing over the bat­tle­fields of the War on Terror are the most lethal in the eyes of our ene­mies and safest in the eyes of our solid­ers ever in his­tory. The issue of more armor is always a major con­cern for flight crews and the con­trac­tors who build them. There is a never end­ing bat­tle with weight to lift capa­bil­ity and the engi­neers behind the design of the fan­tas­tic machines work with­out rest to make it bet­ter and safer. Believe me when I say that news of Apache going down any­where in the world has impact all the great peo­ple who make and deliver them to the War Fighter. We are at the cut­ting edge of tech­nol­ogy and push­ing for more.

    Reply
  5. Dan says:
    February 1, 2007 at 8:56 am

    3 in 10 days, it’s not dra­mat­i­cal sta­tis­tics com­pared to the total amount of heli­copters that have been downed. Roughly half of the 54 heli­copters crashed for other rea­sons than hos­tile fire… get some­thing done about that!

    Reply
  6. Jim says:
    February 1, 2007 at 11:41 am

    @DT.fan: Infiltration is effec­tive only when one can blend with the enemy with­out detec­tion. In the Middle East, most cells are built from the ground up of friends, fam­ily and neigh­bors. These peo­ple know each other, have trained and/​or grown up together. It is nearly impos­si­ble to infil­trate this kind of group. Even recruit­ing them as chil­dren is inef­fec­tive because they can be turned so eas­ily by the pro-​​male mes­sage of Islam. Once turned, they can­not be dis­uadded by rhetoric or exam­ple. They are, in effect, the per­fect “robotic army” if you will because they see only the goal; not the pain or anguish they cause get­ting there. In fact, they are taught that the more pain and anguish they cause on the way, the big­ger their reward in heaven. This is an enemy that can­not be rea­soned with (they will lie to you with a straight face because they believe they should), argued with (they are right, you are wrong, the Imam said so), or bar­gained with (they will ignore any agree­ment once they have obtained that which they were seek­ing in the first place). The only thing you can do with this kind of enemy, just like any robot gone berserk, is to shut it off by any means possible.

    Reply
  7. phil0leech says:
    February 1, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Improvements to the Helicopter Fleet are LONG over­due. The Russians have been armor­ing their (COMBAT: key word!) heli­copters for years. Now that the Cold War is over, why can’t we swal­low our pride and fix these death traps?

    Reply
  8. mike says:
    February 5, 2007 at 1:37 pm

    re: Hinds in Afghanistan– a Hind is a waaaay big­ger tar­get than an Apache, it’s half again as tall and has those big flat sides and fat troop-​​carrying ass. That mat­ters a bunch for ground fire.

    Reply
  9. GuildWars Gold says:
    August 12, 2008 at 9:07 pm

    Initial con­tact this game, I did not very like. Since find good rea­son to release point, I also began to like it. Every day after work, I always go to play this game. Perhaps lit­tle girls will like me, in order to give went to all I like it. I dull play­ing a few weeks, very few speak to peo­ple and I have 26 lev­els and also I earn a lit­tle GuildWars Gold.

    Reply
  10. goonzu money says:
    August 12, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    So I decided to closed my own heart, I played lonely, I gave up to find, put aside feel­ing. I upgrade, take account and earn goonzu money a per­son. I live a lit­tle good; I think I have been really put aside.

    Reply
  11. rappelz gold says:
    August 12, 2008 at 9:20 pm

    I rec­og­nized her is an occa­sional, When I was just upgrade and earn rap­pelz gold. She also just through, and she is a new player, she saw me my num­ber is high. So she asked me how to play. And I said I was a bad peo­ple, I asked if did you not heard in this game. She said she heard, but she did not believe. I smiled. So I took her to play, I told her how to play, how to upgrade.

    Reply

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