President Bush and his new military chiefs have been saying for nearly a month that they would “surge” an additional 21,500 troops to Iraq, in a last, grand push to quell the violence in Baghdad and in Anbar Province. But a new study by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says the real troop increase could be as high as 48,000 — more than double the number the President initially said.
That’s because the combat units that President Bush wants to send into hostile areas need to be backed up by support troops, “including personnel to staff headquarters, serve as military police, and provide communications, contracting, engineering, intelligence, medical, and other services,” the CBO notes.
Over the past few years , DoDs practice has been to deploy a total of about 9,500 personnel per combat brigade to the Iraq theater, including about 4,000 combat troops and about 5,500 supporting troops.
DoD has not yet indicated which support units will be deployed along with the added combat forces, or how many additional troops will be involved. Army and DoD officials have indicated that it will be both possible and desirable to deploy fewer additional support units than historical practice would indicate. CBO expects that, even if the additional brigades required fewer support units than historical practice suggests, those units would still represent a significant additional number of military personnel.
To reflect some of the uncertainty about the number of support troops, CBO developed its estimates on the basis of two alternative assumptions. In one scenario, CBO assumed that additional support troops would be deployed in the same proportion to combat troops that currently exists in Iraq. That approach would require about 28,000 support troops in addition to the 20,000 combat troopsa total of 48,000. CBO also presents an alternative scenario that would include a smaller number of support personnelabout 3,000 per combat brigadetotaling about 15,000 support personnel and bringing the total additional forces to about 35,000.
According to the study, the costs for the “surge” would also be dramatically different than the President has said. The White House estimated a troop escalation would require about $5.6 billion in additional funding for the rest of fiscal year 2007. Of that, about $3.2 billion was supposed to go to the Army and Marines for their escalated activity.
But that figure appears to have been grossly underestimated. The CBO now believes “that costs would range from $9 billion to $13 billion for a four-month deployment and from $20 billion to $27 billion for a 12-month deployment.” There’s a more detailed analysis of the numbers on pages 3 and 4 of the study, which was sent to House Budget Chairman John Spratt today.
UPDATE 1:43 PM: Here’s Spratt’s reaction, in a statement just released:
An average of 170,000 military personnel has been maintained in the Iraq theater of operations, and this high deployment level has taken a toll. Last year, CBO reported that the Department of Defense had reduced the amount of dwell time for many troops from two years to one year in order to sustain troop levels. Dwell time is the time troops spend in training at bases in the United States while living with their families. CBO questioned whether such a high pace of operations was sustainable over the long term. The Presidents proposal will increase this level to above 200,000 troops, and to reach this level, the Pentagon will probably have to relax dwell time standards even more.
CBOs report concludes that the cost of the Presidents plan to surge troops will be higher than previously indicated, both in dollar terms and in the burdens it places on our military.
UPDATE 2:06 PM: As they say on the Internet, “WTF?” Gen. George Casey, the nominee for Army chief of staff, “told a Senate panel Thursday that improving security in Baghdad would take fewer than half as many extra troops as President Bush has chosen to commit,” the AP is reporting.
Asked by Sen. John Warner, R-Va., why he had not requested the full five extra brigades that Bush is sending, Casey said, “I did not want to bring one more American soldier into Iraq than was necessary to accomplish the mission.“
With many in Congress opposing or skeptical of Bush’s troop buildup, Casey did not say he opposed the president’s decision. He said the full complement of five brigades would give U.S. commanders in Iraq additional, useful flexibility.
“In my mind, the other three brigades should be called forward after an assessment has been made on the ground” about whether they are needed to ensure success in Baghdad, Casey said. later.
Now, Casey has long been skeptical of a troop increase. “It’s a tough nut, whether or not bringing in more troops, more US troops will have a significant long term impact on the violence,” he said back in October. And just the other day, Casey was arguing that any additional boots on the ground could be removed by the summer. So this feels like we’re seeing the edges of an internal squabble between the White House and the Army brass. Or maybe between general and general.
UPDATE 02/02/07 6:36 PM: The White House is denying the CBO report.
(Big ups: JA)
{ 112 comments… read them below or add one }
Gee, can that be right?? Bush lied again? I’m in total shock. How come nobody is doing anything to stop this?
It’s not a lie. He requested 21,000 more combat troops. Combat troops need support, thus there will be additional support troops.
Nobody is doing anything to stop this because it would be insane to send in 21,000 combat troops without support.
Of course, I’m sure you’d prefer to surrender and leave Iraq for al Qaeda and Iran to split up, and then hope they just leave us alone. Sure worked well in the past, didn’t it? If you disagree, meet me at the Windows on the World restaurant anytime you’d like to discuss over lunch. My treat.
It is not appropriate to lie by saying falsely that Bush lied.
Its about time Bush did what the Democrats told him to do last summer and send enough troops in there to get the job done!
Pay me now or pay me later, we get out tomorrow save GI lives, stay lose more lives, and nothing changes, we just find someone to blame it on and move on … idiot chimp and idiots who believe him
Not neccessarily a lie. Possibly another calculated mis-direct or, nearly as bad, a basic misunderstanding by our esteemed Commander in Chief.
I’m of two minds. On one hand, increasing troop levels will be helpful in maintaining the peace and scaring away militias. There are countless examples of violence and instability returning to previously stable areas once the US forces move to another area.
On the other, The troop numbers really need to be increased to much higher levels to really make a difference, perhaps in the range of 150,000-200,000. BushCo has tried to win Iraq on the cheap from the get go, and this instance is no exception. If Iraq was as crucial as they tell the public, they’d be doing things like raising taxes to fund an expanded war effort and vastly increasing the size of the military, whether by hook or by crook.
This is just going to incite the insurgency even more. It’s a civil war. American lives aren’t worth wasting over people who are always going to kill each other. Bring them home NOW.
Anonymous,
What you and too many others fail to grasp is that disagreeing with the President’s “plan” (for lack of a better term) in Iraq is not the same as abandoning the stated goals for Iraq.
And let me go ahead and address yor next point for you – “If you’ve got a better plan let’s hear it”. I’ve got some thoughts, but I’m no Middle East diplomacy or military anti-insurgency expert. Ask them. But it won’t matter, because Bush already has, and has discarded all of their plans, suggestions, and advice in favor of his “gut”.
As a Vietnam veteran, it sure looks like we’re headed down the same road. Will we never learn?
Hey Anonymous. Try re-READiING the SOTU address and find the Presidents words “So we’re deploying reinforcements of more than 20,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Iraq”. NO mention of “combat” anywhere. Contrary to what the Adminstration pounds into the media every five minutes, there are ALTERNATIVE plans for Iraq that are neither CUT nor RUN.
The real amount of troops needed, to really stop the insurgents and bring order, is between 500,000 and 1,000,000. Less than that and we will never be successful. Unfortunately, we neither have the resources nor the political will to make that happen. This war is a travesty, in that good people know damn well that we are not fighting it in a way that will let us win, yet persist in pretending victory is only a year away. This war is lost. Bring the troops home.
question…who are we supposed to surrender to? i mean…theyre not even organized enough to have leadership roles…should we surrender to osama? and for those of you who want to just “kill the terrorists”, uh…how do you tell them apart from regular middle eastern citizens? this should have been a special ops, and intelligence war to “find and bring to justice” those who attacked our country, i mean isnt that how all this crap started?
Waiting for alternatives. I’ve heard Murtha’s Okinawa plan, and Joe “pretty clean himself also for a white guy” Biden’s strategy of splitting the country in three, which worked so well in the former Yugoslavia. The ISG’s plan was essentially to slowly cut and run, and beg Iran and Syria for help. As trustworthy as Iran and Syria are, I don’t have a lot of faith in them. Besides, Iran is too busy hosting holocaust denial conferences and sending their own troops into Iraq to cause trouble to want to seriously sit down and talk, anyway.
This plan seems to follow the British model, which is to have enough troops to clear and hold troublesome areas. (remember, though the British have fewer troops, they also are only occupying sparsly populated (with the exception of Basra) southern Iraq, and with much more success).
hey “nony” you coward, since the already attempted escalation/violence plan didnt work, and there is not guarantee that this “new” plan will work, why not at least attempt a solution through diplomacy. how can it be a worse plan than the one on the table? (btw there are now about 12 other plans floating out there put forth by those opposed to the escalation)
But of course!
While Bush didn’t say “combat troops,” in both his address to the nation and the SOTU he made it clear that the troops will have the authority to clear and secure troublesome Iraqi neighborhoods, in fact, this is part of their defined mission.
So we have 21,000+ troops going in with the mission (among other things) to work with Iraqi forces to clear and secure troublesome neighborhoods. Sounds like combat troops to me. Perhaps he could have been more specific. Perhaps he intentionally was NOT more specific so as not to tip the enemy off as to the exact number of combat troops heading to Iraq. At any extent, this is clearly not a LIE.
This country seriously needs to get over the fact that most of us do not like Bush, and instead make sure that our troops there have our full support to win this war. Our only exit strategy should be victory, defined by a cessation of hostilities by the Shi’a militias, the destruction of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the end of the Baathist insurgency.
If you don’t believe the President listened to alternatives, that is your choice. The fact is, you must admit that you don’t know whether he listened to alternatives or not. Perhaps he did, but decided that this is the wisest course. Regardless this is the course we are taking. Shouldn’t we all hope that it is the right one?
and did ya ever think the british plan might be working because they dont want to kill the british…they want to focus on us…the snake, the beast, the evil empire, as they call us? who are you wanting to declare victory over, pal? the terrorists? hmmmm…ill bet there might be some others lerking in other parts of the globe besides iraq…whaddya think?
ok…so cessation of militia…hmmm, they scatter until our troops leave, or have you figured out a way to hunt them all down?
destruction of al quada….hmmm…how will you know when you’ve acheived that, since we let many of them sign up for the iraqi military unbeknowst to us
can you tell a baathist from a suni? think the troops can? oh yeah thats right, they wear those silly pink uniforms….
(This was “Anonymous”, though I don’t see how “John” or “Tony” is any less anonymous)
I agree there are other plans out there. I’ve seen them. I happen to support this one. Diplomacy with Iran and Syria just doesn’t seem too pleasing to me. We are engaged in diplomacy with other, more moderate states in the region to gain support, by the way.
And also, they do want to kill the British. 130 of them have given their lives so far. The British have been successful in southern Iraq for two reasons… (1) their troop levels are sufficient for counter-insurgency compared to the population they control, as well as the relative level of the insurgency, and (2) southern Iraq is more homogenous, and less prone to the type of sectarian fighting that was provoked by al Qaeda in Baghdad and Anbar.
if its not 300,000 troops, its just more of a total waste of American lives. Bush is bum, had he or cheney had ever served, they would have sent 300,000 to begin with. What a waste! But thank god the dems took back control. We need to cut and run the hell out of Iraq, right towards afganistan and pakistan, where we should have been all along.
You’re missing the point. Clear and HOLD. Our troops DON’T leave. They clear the militias, let them “Scatter,” if you will, and then allow the Iraqi police to take over. Order is restored, rebuilding begins anew, and as time passes, the desire for young Iraqis to join the Mahdi army or whatever else is out there will dissipate.
This doesn’t require our troops to be there forever, just long enough to secure Baghdad and Anbar, allow the government to gain control of the entire country, and allow the Iraqi police/army the time and ability to quickly put an end to any activity that resurges.
I am over-simplifying this, but it is the best option. In five years time, Baghdad will look more like Los Angeles. There will be violence between rival factions/gangs/criminals, but for the most part, society will function.
And also, they do want to kill the British. 130 of them have given their lives so far. The British have been successful in southern Iraq for two reasons… (1) their troop levels are sufficient for counter-insurgency compared to the population they control, as well as the relative level of the insurgency, and (2) southern Iraq is more homogenous, and less prone to the type of sectarian fighting that was provoked by al Qaeda in Baghdad and Anbar.
so then to compare what the british are doing to what we are doing….kinda like apples and oranges yes?…look dude…we all want to “win the war”, we all want the terrorists dead, we all want justice for the attack on our country…but not at the cost of one more american life or limb at this point…time for a new solution, not same ole…and dont try to tell me that they will “follow us over here”. thats a fuc&in irresponsible, and TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED GUESS. guess what…they were already here for sept 11, and the 93 bombing, and i imagine still out there in our beloved homeland. but finding a peaceful solution or a violent solution cannot guarantee our safety, and anyone who believes “winning in iraq” will do so…is living in a fantasy
Did anyone thoroughly read their CBO’s comment. 1. “Assume…..” break that down ass/u/me….Never trust comments when assume is placed in their supposedly factual findings.
2. “If……..” as the the say goes, “if a frog had wings, he wouldn’t bump his butt!”
Come on…..enough as this Bush hatred…..bipartisan….if so, then why comment on assume’s and if’s.
itreallydoesn’tmatter wrote: “The real amount of troops needed, to really stop the insurgents and bring order, is between 500,000 and 1,000,000. Less than that and we will never be successful. Unfortunately, we neither have the resources nor the political will to make that happen. This war is a travesty, in that good people know damn well that we are not fighting it in a way that will let us win, yet persist in pretending victory is only a year away. This war is lost. Bring the troops home.”
That’s exactly what I was going to write. Colin Powell has been proven correct as has George H. W. Bush; they knew better than to invade Bagdad in 1991 for *exactly* the reasons that have come to pass in Iraq now. This situation is as bad as it gets and there are no good answers. We *should* have stayed in Afghanistan and completed the mission there and, quite frankly, that STILL needs to be our #1 priority since the Taliban are returning to power in the vacuum we’ve left behind after sending our resources to Iraq. George W. Bush is the worst president in history.
I ask Anonyomous: Was Yugoslavia in a state of chaos and sectarian genocide after it fell apart? Are there now multiple states that are operating at levels one would like to see Iraq? Throwing too few troops at a problem seems, from many aspects, a dubious method for dealing with a sectarian civil war. I’d feel more comfortable if one could point to a sectarian civil war in history where a troop surge of this magnitude actually worked.
Yugoslavia, after it was split apart, was in a state of chaos for SEVEN years. Only NATO troops and a massive air campaign on Serbia put an end to the violence.
It could be said that in the end partition worked, but the cost in lives was major. Major cities were purged of ethnic minorities. Now, the partitioned countries are essentially homogenous. Are you really proposing that multi-ethnic cities like Baghdad and Mosul be purged of ethnic minorities so a split can work? Please.
This country seriously needs to get over the fact that most of us do not like Bush, and instead make sure that our troops there have our full support to win this war. Our only exit strategy should be victory, defined by a cessation of hostilities by the Shi’a militias, the destruction of al Qaeda in Iraq, and the end of the Baathist insurgency.
Interesting. This fine bit of advice assumes that the United States is in a position to influence events. What carrot does the US offer all these fine folks to desist? Nothing. We can’t protect anybody. What stick? The alleged 20,000+ troops “stick” would have a hard time working even assuming that they were trained and fully equipped. But they are not. There are no active Army units at the brigade level or higher with sufficient readiness to deploy. They lack key personnel and equipment, and if they go they will be useless. Reserve units (including Marine reserve units) stateside have had no money for serious training, so they’re going over to the sandbox and won’t have any idea what to do, either. And their equipment is falling apart or nonexistent.
How did America’s intelligence fall so far as to believe that all it takes to win is a will to win? It takes logistics and we have none. It takes an intelligent strategy, and there is none. Our military’s gone terminal as far as Iraq is concerned, and we need to stop pretending otherwise.
It’s bloody amazing. This president demonstrably lied to all of us, including US troops as to the reasons for going to war in Iraq. Worse than that has been the bloody outcome, a civil war which threatens the stability of the region, and indeed our security. All of us who have been screaming at this president since long before the war started, haven’t been doing it out of some natural calling from the wild, of being a natural born Bush hater. We’ve been screaming at him all along because of his actions, his words, and now the results of such. That anyone can still support this walking disaster, especially in regards to his criminal and reckless use of our awesome military, is fascinating. The issue of being against this war, this surge, does not at all equate to not supporting the troops. It hasn’t been Bush that has stepped up and tried to expand benefits to returning vets. It wasn’t Bush who harped on the need to up-armor the humvees. It wasn’t Bush who refused to cut their combat pay while in a combat zone. It’s not Bush refusing to send more into a frikken civil war where they haven’t a rats chance in hell of deciding who is the enemy. But we are to believe that it’s Bush, and his die hard supporters who really really support the troops, and not us who didn’t want any of them to die for a lie in the first place. Seems illogical.
The value of 21,500 was never enough, and we have known for a while that the ratio of support to infantry is bloated. This is not surprising. However, it is troubling that the increase is just now being considered, and that the plan from the beginning involved 21,500 infantry, NOT including support. I blog on the recent reports from generals that the equipment to support the troops may not be available, from supplies to transport to “up-armored” HMMWVs, in “Do you support the war but not the troops?.”
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2007/01/31/do-you-support-the-war-but-not-the-troops/
Iran is Bush’s Cambodia…
let us revisit..1970
http://vietnam.vassar.edu/doc15.html
Funny, there was no lie in going to Iraq. The WMD’s were sent via a russian airplane to Damascus. This story is coraborated by Sadams then #2 general in a detailed interogation. Why the media will not report this is beyond me,…Oh ya if they report this then Bush and the rest of the worl were correct. ooops can’t have that, eveybody hates Bush. Oh and don’t forget this about Oil, not, if it was for oil why not go into Venezuela removed that dictator and keep the fight in this hemisphere. Because this war is a two front war thats why. One was to liberate Iraq, the other is to combat muslim facists.
NEWT
yeah, we can’t talk to iran. somehow our sunni allies and we will craft a plan for security.
btw, sadr is the most anti-iran shi’ite you can find in iraq. i guess you’d rather support hakim (who visited the white house in december) great, all those lives lost to empower iran’s favorite, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq. genius!
NEWT
I think it would be supporting our troops better to keep them from being killed in a pointless war than to ignore Bush’s lies and subterfuge.
Stephen #1 You are totally wrong. Bush went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies richer. Bush even admitted that they went into Iraq for OIL,OIL,OIL.There was no WMD in Iraq. This was an illegal war period.
Stephen #1 You are totally wrong. Bush went into Iraq for OIL and to make his buddies richer. Bush even admitted that they went into Iraq for OIL,OIL,OIL.There was no WMD in Iraq. This was an illegal war period.
Its wrong to say that most Americans don’t like Bush. He’s a jovial enough fellow. A true village idiot if there ever was one. That does not mean I don’t like him. Hell, he’s good for a laugh almost every day.
But when he puts on his “The Decider” costume and starts making up stuff that gets American GIs killed for false reasons – that is just plain wrong! It should not be tolerated in a free country. It is his arrogant use of American resources (military and monetary) for what has become his own personal agenda that infuriates me. Every time the tide turns in Iraq he comes up with a new and different reason we have to be there. I think many of us are tired of the B.S.
So remember – Bush is good for a laugh. But it stops being funny when good American youth are being killed just because he’s too stupid to try any other options.
KATIE>>> Sorry but I’m right on this one. You seem to have a very bad case of short term memory loss or you are A.D.D.
sorry to hear your so dillusional.
Stephen says:
“Funny, there was no lie in going to Iraq. The WMD’s were sent via a russian airplane to Damascus. This story is coraborated by Sadams then #2 general in a detailed interogation.”
Correction: the story was not “corroborated,” but INVENTED by Georges Sada, who’s made quite a name for himself by peddling it to American evangelical groups.
And if his story were true – if all those alleged WMD were transported, as Sada claims, via 52 flights to Syria at a time when Iraq was under intensive, continuous satellite surveillance by the US and its allies – then Bush was even more incompetent than he seems today.
But keep shoveling, as they say…there’s bound to be a pony in there somewhere.
The battle in Iraq is lost and President Bush knows it. The surge is about withdrawal. Once the “surge” fails, as it undoubtably will, we will see much hand wringing and talk in Washington about the Iraqi’s unwillingness to “do the right thing”. Our troops will be brought home. This will create a power vacuum in the geographical entity that is known as Iraq drawing other interested regional powers into the mix. This, in my opinion, is the real goal of the administration. Syria and Iran have a natuaral alliance while America has such a presence on thier borders. Once we have left Iran and Syria will remember that they really dont like each other, and that they don’t have that much in common. Iraq’s neatural wealth is the prize for them to fight over after we leave, and will most likely destabilize them and the region for some time to come. After the smoke clears and the killing mostly ceases, we will return in force to pick up the pieces.
we can only pray that the President will have the same success with the on the war on terror as he has had with the war on drugs. God Bless the Correct People
You have no idea what your talking about. Dont you remember the supposed HUGE scandel during the election about how a munitions dump was left ungaurded and that same decision came back to haunt/cause loss of life for our soldiers. Yet it came to light that leading up to the war Russian Troops were inside Iraq, taking explosives/weapons etc etc out (which they were never supposed to have sold to Saddam). And even now weapons (Brand New ones) from Iran have made their way into Iraq undetected until found on the battlefield. WMD’s could have easily been hidden or smuggled out. And if we had gone to Iraq for OIL then we wouldnt be paying 2.50 a gallon. Not to mention the corrupt Iraqi government keeping all they make off oil while we pay for rebuilding their countery better than it was before we went in. In the words of AOL speek : STFU.
We NEED to bring back the draft!
Yes John. Thank you very much. “It could be said that in the end partition worked”. And yes it cost many lives, but guess whose…….theirs not ours. What they do in their land is their problem, and if it takes seven years of NATO troops, bombing and many of their lives to WIN the peace, then so be it. It works and it leaves the amount to die up to them.
I have little doubt most of what all the fighters want is American soldiers out of their country. Once that happens, Iraqi’s will have no need for Al Qaida, string them up and then get on with their civil war to determine who will control the resources. And in the end, the country will be split along sectarian lines, each controlling different parts of oil rich regions. Once that is done, then they sell their oil and run their regions in a manner that makes them the most secure……..peacefully!
Anyone(ex: kate) who thinks the President sent our troops into Iraq for oil, is a total JACKA$$.. you are an uneducated bleeding heart liberal and you were raised by people who must hold the same ideas and values that they unfortunately passed onto you. Thatis pathedic. I mean I cant believe how many stupid comments I’ve read thus far. Who do we surrender to? You moron, nobody. We kick their a$$es and take names. The reason i feel so badly for our troops is because they are limited to how they can engage the enemy.. (thanks again liberals!) And another post… “how do we even know what al Quaeda looks like?” Thats the point you idiot… They dress like everyone else… They blow up women and children… They hide bombs on roads and dont fight our miltary cause they would get taken to the shed. I’ve got all you losers down to a T. You probably hate your life.. ur job probably sucks (if you have one).. and all you do is complain. Why should the govt spend any money on something that needs to be taken care of militarily abroad? when we could spend it on something that would benefit you. Its like listening to hollywood.. If 9/11 ever happened in beverly hills.. They’d be singing a different tune. Instead of complaining about nonsense, pray for our troops safe return when they are done bringing to the people of the middle east something we have all been fortunate enought to enjoy…. FREEDOM… I’d like to see you in their shoes.. You’d be begging for help from a country like the U.S. I would like to see how every celebrity, journalist, and liberal would act with all of their freedoms taken from them… You cant imagine it can you. Those people in Iraq couldnt imagine having a voice before we got there. Nobody said it was gonna be easy, cause its not gonna be…. But were not leaving.. so ride it out.
Don’t miss the real point of all of this: Haliburton. Although I don’t think that this has caused a conflict of interest- he’s always put the good of Haliburton before the good of this country, or the lives of our troops.
Yes support personnel are necessary for large deployments. The mistake was intervention in the first place. Hopefully, the new Congress will initiate a redeployment.
All I know is that regardless of whether or not the additonal troops request is approved, they’re already on the way.
I am so sick of people saying wait until this surge fails then Bush will bring our men home. Darn it, don’t you people understand that *when* this surge fails it will fail because American men are getting killed faster than Bush can replace them! Sons, brothers, father’s, and nephews, best friends, dead, dead, dead, dead, and dead to prove you right and Bush wrong.
Stop talking about when the surge fails and start talking about stopping it! Stop sitting in your warm home at your computer saying, la, la, this is ashame but ….” And start doing something to stop this maddness before my best friend is killed or worse!
Remember the old story of wagon selling? It’s a lot like the slow play-out of the real troop count in the “SURGE.” It goes like this: Buyer: “How much for a wagon?” Seller: That’ll be $100 (and if the buyer doesn’t flinch, quickly add, ‘that’s for the body, the wheels are extra”); buyer: “Oh, how much for the wheels?” Seller: “They’re $25 (and if the buyer doesn’t flinch, quickly add, “each.”). W’s a shifty old wagon trader… Why, I actually heard the original surge numbers(leaking from the Pentagon, like water courses through a sieve) to be close to 60K, bringing the Baghdad count closer to what it takes to pacify a city, 1 soldier for every 50 local residents. So… if we don’t flinch, get ready for the next incremental increase in the real count… despite what brother Casey, just home from the war, says before congress….
ktw
Yeah, yeah, the WMD are in Syria, that’s it! And is Syria supporting the insurgents or NOT??!! You’d think that WMD attacks would have been going on daily for the last four years, but nary a ONE! Maybe just one of those WMD’s could have found it’s way to Europe or America, but NO again? Two scenarios come to mind 1) The WMD’s are over hyped and a minor issue OR maybe the wicked, wicked Syrians (see Axis of Evil for more of the same)would never be caught dead (literally) using WMD’s because it is not in their interest.
Battle doesn’t need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don’t ask why a plague spreads or why a field burns. Don’t ask why some fight
Just admit it people, you would rather see us defeated than see Bush’s plan work and see a successfull iraq. You are pathetic.
Did anyone really vote on the war believing Iraq had WMD’s…??? and if they were there saddam would even be able to get them over to the U.S.?? idiots. If the war was going well and Iraq was coming together more quickly than everyone had hoped and the people we had to fight over there weren’t hiding and firing weapons behind women and children, Bush would look like a king, and you’d find something else to complain about.. hey, if it was up to me.. The U.S. would isolate itself from every other country, then everyone else could fight amongst themselves.. wait, we tried that one didnt we? And if we weren’t in any other countries fighting right now, other countries still wouldnt come to us for aid, money, food, etc… if the U.S. helps, they are the bad guy, If they don’t , they are the bad guy… can someone (preferably a liberal please) give me the perfect scenario… ? cause i cant think of one.
War is Peace. Live with it.
Infidel, I’m with you. Where is everyone on here from?? I can only narrow it down to San Fransisco, or hollywood… It’s pathedic all the same.
You pussies that (probably unlike your sex partner) wanna pull out before the job is done are such short -sited cry babies its pathetic. No wonder youre such cry babies. How long would America and Europe have survived if the gutless attitude like yours was the domineering one in WWII. The pussies in the UK and France except for Winston Churchill wouldnt believe the threat of Hitler until the bastard bombed their cities and then occupied their countries. You pussies are the best example yet of History repeating itself.The wmd’s are out there and your crying.. Bush is a liar. Pussies!
Anyone who believes a word the little dictator and draft dodger says is wearing blinders and needs counseling and sympathy from all with sound mind.
Sean, OH MY! You can’t tell the Liberal that we are a Representative Republic. They think we are a Democracy. Public Schools you know. They think that winning the popular vote gets you the POTUS. We stole oil but our gas prices have been higher than ever. Those evil gas companies made 39bil in profit. But no one says they paid 100bil in taxes. For every stupid uninformed argument the Libias have there is a stronger counterpoint. By the way I don’t know how many dumbyas graduated from both Yale and Harvard.
Why do people insist on seeing the problem as “cowardly liberals”? Conservatives writing for The American Coservative and other respected conservative forums have been screaming about Bush’s “adventure in Iraq” since Day 1. Republican Chuck Hagel is hardly a cowardly liberal. Jim Webb is hardly a cowardly liberal. The various and sundry Generals and former Secretaries of Defense & State who oppose Bush policy are hardly liberals. Get a grip!
patriot at February 1, 2007 03:13 PM
In short, I tell You that not only are you the real LOON but nobody in their right mind could make the statements that you made with a strait face. talk about Rabid Left. Could anybody defend your statements as fact.
Speaking of pussies ‘Ric’ … do you currently serve in the military?
THE OIL is only a small part of the story. “Combating Islamic ‘fascism” is a fable created for popular consumption.
The real reason for the while shituation is larger. It’s about GLOBAL HEGEMONY and PROFITS. Large corporate inter tests drive policy. On this continent there are large corporations whose products are directly related to war as a business, i.e. killing on an industrial scale. They develop weapons systems, manufacture weapons, market and sell weapon$. Among these: GE, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Lockheed/Martin and Boeing to name the more familiar. Then there are the corporations and engineering firms who service the business of war and industrial scale killing. Among these firms are the familiar Brown & Root, Halliburton, Bechtel – long known in engineering circles as ‘the CIA’s engineering firm.’ Then there are the numerous corporate ‘security, mercenary, or “Soldier-of-Fortune’ organizations. Too numerous to mention. As well as the fossil fuel interests which everyone presumes are involved from the get go.
ALL of these are large companies employ huge numbers of people and rake in large contracts from the DOD/Pentagon thereby sucking up vast amounts of US taxpayer monies. ALL these firms employ armies of economists whose job includes developing forecasts: ‘how to keep the gravy train running smoothly and in perpetuity.’
When the Soviet bloc retired from their role as ‘designated enemy’ the economists and policy makers at the weapons manufacturers et al listed above began to search for a new ‘threat’ to keep domestic paranoia at an appropriate level. Since no one stepped forth in the global arena to volunteer to be our new ‘designated enemy’ it was determined that the US would simply ‘create a new enemy’ by kicking sand in Haji’s face.
Over the past decade we have witnessed the public face of that ongoing strategy. The plan included 9/11 as well as the installation an administration sympathetic to this plan. THE reason Osama has not been captured (yet) is, he more valuable as a threat than he is as a prisoner or a corpse. The reason the US has not achieved a ‘victory’ in Iraq is that the purpose is NOT to achieve a ‘victory.’ The real agenda is to stay in theater long enough to piss off and radicalize a whole population and an entire generation of Islamic young men, turning them into fanatical US haters and thus insure that the US will have a visible, ‘dangerous’ enemy for the next three decades.
When administration talking heads and NeoCons talk about the ‘long war’ or ‘generational warfare’ or say that we will be fighting Islamic fundies for 30 years we are getting a quick glimpse behind the infamous curtain of their long term strategy.
What it reveals is a tragic lack of imagination in the highest, most powerful levels of corporate/government planning. A one trick pony lack of imagination. After half century of keeping the economy afloat through weapons development, weapons manufacture and weapons marketing they have no other skillset or product to fall back on. They HAVE to keep making weapons because that is the only trick they have. IN order to have the continued support of the population for this plan enemies are necessary. Swarthy hordes of Middle Eastern Islamic ‘facsists’ have cast in this role. Iraq is only the recruitment phase. This is just the beginning. We have almost 25 more years to go.
Fasten your seat belts.
Sorry dude, it is a lie. This from the State of the Union address:
So we’re deploying reinforcements of more than 20,000 additional soldiers and Marines to Iraq.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/
2007/01/20070123-2.html
It doesn’t say 20,000 combat troops, just troops. If we send 48,000 troops instead of something close to 20,000 it is just a lie.
MRK, Shhhhhhh CIA is listening to you. Its all a conspiracy. OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH. There coming for you MRK. Maybe you should put tin foil on your head they could be listening to your thoughts.
Impeach Chimp and the puppet master or have him step down since he was never elected but selected with crooks and daddys suppprreemm court.
RE:Posted by: karla_homolka at February 1, 2007 03:33 PM
Great recap of the events after 9/11. You only made one false assumption, that is OBL and 18 ragtag Saudi’s were alone behind the 9/11 attacks. Not the case….. there is enough proof out there now to totally disprove that assumption and also to make a case that it was an inside job. Go to some of these web sites and see for yourself.
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
http://www.911inplanesite.com/
http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=16
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911information
http://www.911pressfortruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/
I love how the country woke up in 2006 and threw these republican hypocrits out of office.
For you idiot neocons who are still calling everyone else “anti-america traitors”, keep it up-that’s how you became the minority. With a few more insults you’ll ensure you the GOP is nothing more than a memory. You’ve insulted literally everyone now, you’ve called us all anti american traitors, and in the process you isolated your party from mainstream america. Good job, dunces.
I look forward to seeing the Entire US Government brought to justice with rope, tar, and feathers. We are borrowing 8 Billion Dollars A WEEK from China for the Occupation of Iraq. We either need a war tax or we need to get the hell out of Iraq.
Poor martyred America.
Blowback is such a bitch.
We ONLY have over half a million U.S. troops, spies, contractors and dependents stationed on a network of 737 American military bases in 130+ countries, not counting the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, many in countries whose people have not agreed to it.
“”blowback” does not just mean retaliation for things our government has done to, and in, foreign countries. It refers specifically to retaliation for illegal operations carried out abroad that were kept totally secret from the American public. These operations have included the clandestine overthrow of governments various administrations did not like, the training of foreign militaries in the techniques of state terrorism, the rigging of elections in foreign countries, interference with the economic viability of countries that seemed to threaten the interests of influential American corporations, as well as the torture or assassination of selected foreigners. The fact that these actions were, at least originally, secret meant that when retaliation does come – as it did so spectacularly on September 11, 2001 – the American public is incapable of putting the events in context. Not surprisingly, then, Americans tend to support speedy acts of revenge intended to punish the actual, or alleged, perpetrators. These moments of lashing out, of course, only prepare the ground for yet another cycle of blowback.”
-Chalmers Johnson, @ TomsDispatch.com
The next time anyone decides to take us to war, the first rule of order must be that every member of the Administration, including the President himself/herself, as well as all voting members of Congress, must supply either one son, daughter, or other relative if they have no son or daughter, to fight the new war on the front lines. No exceptions, no deferments. Sine the rich gain the most in this country from advancing our “causes”, they should be made to sacrifice for those benefits. And I guaranty you, if this law is passed, you won’t have to worry about any more Vietnam or Iraq type wars! The next war we ever get into would be one worth fighting.
In response to Andrew who sounds like a total moron. In the first place Andrew, an aircraft carrier has about 5500 sailors and marines. They have the capacity to carry 3 times the number of aircraft you came up with (25). Not just F-16′s, but F-18 Super Hornets as well. Second of all, the pipelines in Iraq have been continually blown up and even the Iraqi people have to wait in line for gas. Much of which is black market. That is one reason why you are paying so much at the pump. Third, Exxon broke their own record for profits made, 39Billion, with a “B”. Forth, Iran has had missiles that were capable of striking our carriers for the past couple of years. I emailed the commander of the Kennedy 2 years ago because I was concerned about this very thing. You see, I have a daughter in the U.S. Navy who is stationed on an aircraft carrier. She has been to the gulf. I am a former marine and have a son in the marines who has been to Iraq and thank God returned safely. This time. I am sure if Iran really were inclined, they would hit our carriers. I think Bush is the instigator and is trying to pick a fight and is p.o.’d because Iran is exercising restraint. Maybe you should get off the trading floor once in a while and do some research. And remember, it wasn’t Iraq or Iran that killed your friends at the WTC on 9/11. Bin Laden bin forgotten was allegedly the one responsible but of course he is still on the loose and Bush doesn’t think about him much because he’s really not that important. (said by Bush himself at a press gaggle 03/14/04)
Just curious, what side will these extra brigades be fighting to defend? The Sunnis or the Shiites? And: Is a war within a country that has 3 factions fighting each other still called a “civil war?”
even republicans are abandoning bush… i am ‘conservative’… i voted republican because it ‘used to be’ a ‘conservative’ party… but bush spends like a lib, and panders to illegal aliens like a lib… he is, in fact, a lib. bush has destroyed the republican party. his agenda of ‘born again christianity’ is not ‘conservative’ (it is religious). bush’s attempt to re-invigorate the 12th century crusade of christians against islam has led the country down a path of over-spending. the democratic party is beginning to look more ‘conservative’ than the republican party (e.g. ‘pay as you go’, and ending the war). mr. bush… you have done a disservice to yourself, the republican party, all conservatives and your country. JMHO
Bush lied?
Alert the media!
but bush spends like a lib
Posted by: howdy_studly at February 1, 2007 04:35 PM
Hey, buddy.
Didn’t anybody ever teach you
that labels are bad? That they can
be wrong or change?
Just as we now realize that Republicans
no longer deserve the labels
“conservative” or “compassionate”
You should realize that libs aren’t “spenders”
We favor pay-go. We favor fairness in the
tax code (meaning richies should pay their
fair share too). WE want to get control of
war profiteering and embezzling.
You should stop parrotting your stereotypical lib
bashing and take a look at reality for a change.
Reality is we had a budget surplus when Clinton
was in and a record deficit with your guy.
At this point Bush is pretty much against the wall. I mean, will not the new democratic congress start cutting funds and bring the troops home? Why don’t they vote to do it? I mean what is wrong with this new congress? A non-Binding legislation, sounds like a bunch of fools talk. The Democratic Party needs to stick it to Bushes face and tell him who the real boss is, You Know, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. The Democratic Party Led by these two neeed to make some quick legislation to end this war once and for all. Im sick of hearing all this bull crap from the Democratic leaders that we need to pull out now. Let’s do it. Cut the funds now I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Time for action, no more wolly gaggling!!! You hear me reid ? Pelosi? To quote Ted Kennedy “Hello?—Hello?——Hello? Are we just hearing a bunch of rheteric from our leaders? nothing solid or compound? Tell Bush to stick it!!!!!!!!!! Time for a congressional cloture vote get all 60 of those dinosaurs out on the carpet and vote to cut funding to this damn war!!!! We in this country are the biggest bunch of losers to stand here and let the war continue. We are so stupid to be led around by the likes of the Bush War Room BOSSING us around! well no more of that, no more of that. Oh yeah and lets not forget who helped to vote us in there in the first place. HILLARY CLINTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU HILLARY CLINTON, SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!! Where was your inspiration when we needed it most huh? WHERE WERE YOU?!!!!!!!!!! WHEN WE NEEDED YOU? your out there campaigning now saying your in to win and how if you knew then what you knew now you would not have voted for the millions of dollars and troops for this what bush billed as the war on terror. You gave him all your support by voting for this! HONEY, you made your bed, and now you will sleep in it!!!!! Your campaigning will all be in vain cause you supported this war!!!!! how dare you stick the finger at us HILLARY CLINTON!!!! You do not have my support or my vote you screwed me and every democrat out there! Saying to potential voters that now if u knew then what you knew now? Not good enough Mrs. Clinton. Not Good enough. Have you not played chess before? You should have had the intuition of where this war was going to go. A vote for you is a vote for a traitor. At least Bush isnt so spineless despite all the bull crap he has dished out to us, he, has’t been a traitor to his own party! Its one thing to start this bull crap war were in and to stick to your guns, like he has, he remains one of the most hated men in the country if not the most hated man period point blank. But you!!!!!! You totally played the traitors part in your vote for money for the war. You Gave your party the finger and you have let rest your political fire power on the couch eating lays potatoe chips!!!!!! not to mention while watching My name is earl, of all shows, yeah, u know him as the character who has the list of things he has trying to make right with all these people he wronged in life. Well you screwed the democratic party, forever. I do not think voters will forgive you for signing on with Bush and giving him money for the war. You in my mind will forever be a bush supporter, no amount of campaining will change that. Its my hope that the dems will totally get their act in gear and change this, but i do not see it happening, there to stuck on stupid. IM sick off this party of mine. Im upset that my leaders will not do what i voted them in to do in the first place. I want this war done and over with. I hate war, and i cant stand anymore hypocrisy from my own party. I don’t know if bush lied or not, but i do know the people i voted for, are not doing what i voted them in to do, and for heavens sake, Will some one please tell Nancy and Dirty harry to do their jobs? people voted them in there for a reason , hello ?
I wanted to be a merc in Iraq with blackwater, but I guess you got to have your not up someones butt to get in.
I think enough is enough to be debating an issue that needs to be resolved soon. The quicker the better. Only common sense can tell
What are we going to do with 100,000 demobilized mercenaries?
This administration will stand head and shoulders above its predecessors for all it has
accomplished: destroying the richest republic on
earth, turning America into a semi-fascist state,
bankrupting the federal treasury, turning the media into hired lapdogs and prostitutes, ending
the freedoms of American citizens in exchange for
“protection” from alleged terrorism, and also
creating a state of perpetual war which has already cost the lives of hundreds of thousands,
and we’re just getting going good. When Reagan
spoke of an “evil empire” we didn’t know it would
turn out to be us. We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people
are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich.
“We now live in permanent state-created terror where torture is ok, presidents are appointed, not elected, people are afraid to speak, and arrest without warrants is normal. What happened to America? Welcome to the Fourth Reich.”
Don’t forget that Chimpy McHitlerburton and the CIA can read your mind unless you’re wearing a tin foil hat. After reading your post, I’m pretty sure that you’ve got your tinfoil hat on.
President Bush won Florida after some areas were hand-counted no less than 5 times — all areas which Gore got to pick, not Bush. The Supreme Court stopped Gore on a vote of 7 to 2, with 2 of the 7 disagreeing on the remedy but agreeing that Gore’s shenanigans had gone on long enough.
I can’t open a newspaper or turn on the news or watch C-SPAN without seeing Bush called the vilest things, so I don’t where you got the idea that people are afraid to speak out.
As for arrests without warrants, that’s happened every day since the country was founded. Ever see a drunk driver get pulled over and arrested? There were no warrants in that situation. I don’t think you even know what a warrant is.
Finally, your Fourth Reich imagery is ludicrous. Read the history books on what happened in the Third Reich and compare it with today. Your nonsense proves that people with tiny minds can be compelled to believe anything if fed enough propaganda.
Stephen:
You claim that Iraq’s WMDs went on an airplane to Damascus (must’ve been a heckuva big airplane) and then wonder why the media didn’t report this…that’s not the wonder at all. If this story is true, why didn’t Bush himself talk about it?
Or is it that Bush has lied so often he doesn’t know how to deal with the truth even when it would help him?
More troops, less troops. Whatever. If everyone to the left of Trent Lott will kindly yell “Bush is Hitler” in unison, we can move onto your next well constructed argument.
But I think the Democrats and the MSM need to get their list of talking points straight. Shrieking “Too many troops!” and “Not enough troops!” in the same news cycle is just poor form; they’re not even trying anymore.
This is old stuff.
See URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PoliticalEssays/message/869
To Mike McCullough and the question of the Hitler comparison, I agree, it is an unfair comparison. Hitler wasn’t burdened with the US Constitution so many of his crimes weren’t even crimes. That made it easier. Bush himself said it’s easier if you’re a dictator.
And Hitler wrote his own plan for world domination and aggression in Mein Kampf, Bush is using the playbook of the neo-cons at PNAC (the Project for the New American Century, and of course Hitler served his time in the military, not in some country club outfit. (didn’t have them in post WWI Germany.) And Hitler had to burn his own Reichstag, Bush’s just went the corruption route when they saw the new attorney general and they stopped making laws and watching what the executive branch was doing.
And it took Hitler 5 years to invade Austria, Bush had his first invasion in his first year, and of course Hitler had given up reading childrens’ stories while he was serving time for his beliefs before taking office. Our guy was doing fairy tales when 3000 of his countrymen died. So you’re right, comparisons are always odious and this one is expecially maligning to the 20th century’s most historic figure.
George Bush is nothing but a Dictator. A want to be Stalin. He cares nothing about anyone but himself. He is lier and uses terror to scare the puplic.
To all the supports of Bush. Old, young disabled, male or female. You need to fight his battle for him Iraq and where ever he leads you. Get off you couch and go with George to do the fighting. Quit calling other people names put your life on the line and shout your mouth. Quit using the military and do it yourself, unless you are scared. And if you are scared then SHOUT UP.
Dear fellow Americans,
I love you, but you are so gullible! It is very late now, and you are still far from seeing the real nature of the beast.
You live in a country which is managed like a corporation.
For decades your economic and psychological environment has been so doctored as to produce passive, divided populace, confused and incapable of seeing the big picture.
Your cultural life has been manipulated as well. You watched the show as if hypnotized.
You have absorbed values, assumptions, prejudices and beliefs that were intended for you, wholesale. You actually gave up on seeing the world with your own eyes.
You learned to do what it takes for a dollar without asking questions. You are used to looking the other way and saying ‘not my problem’. It
So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ
If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you
The CBO seems to be on the money with this. Check out what the CBO told the Senate Republicans in 2002 about the cost of going to war with Iraq.
They did not listen and did it anyway. We are paying the price and will do so for years to come. I will be dead…My grandchildren and their children will still be paying.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/38xx/doc3822/09-30-Iraq.pdf
Has anyone else thought about the possible “real” reason we are sending all these 21,500 troops and the added “support” troops to Iraq?? Could it be another positioning for battle toward Iran?? This way the prez can begin his war with Iran and claim he has the troops on the ground to fight it – well before Congress can do anything about it!?
Isn’t this the admins “Method of Operation”? Don’t be surprised if it turns out that this is the next step in aligning his ships and missils – and now the ground troops – for his next war.
Sounds like a “war plan” to me – at least to get the war started – no plan thereafter as to what will happen after he attacks Iran – WWIII!!?? or Armageddon???
lies…
please join in
So we are trying to get a million letters to the senate to tell them to STOP THE ESCALATION OF TROOPS IN IRAQ
If you go to
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/
you can choose a senator who needs to hear from you
For every 1 shooter it usually requires 4-6 non-shooters in order to get them in place. That’s how war works.
Are we on the same planet?
[[[[Hello, over]]]]
Numbers are Impressive
So were the US troop numbers in Nam too, if you read, About Face by Hackworth, or Soldiers Story by Herbert, two of American
Vis a vis deployment for attack against Iran: I do not think the current aim is for anything much bigger than regaining control of at least central Baghdad. The situation right now can be compared to an invading army controlling Manhattan (Green zone) and nt much else, surrounded by a war between the burroughs.
As for lie/not lie, its at least an interesting number-game, and sets up a whole new logistical and financial perspective on this surge. Id advise y
The Peninsular War
“The Peninsular War was a major conflict during the Napoleonic Wars, fought on the Iberian Peninsula by an alliance of Spain, Portugal, and Britain against the Napoleonic French Empire. Known as the Spanish War of Independence (Guerra de la Independencia Espa
Very interesting, seeing how many people here are blaming liberals for the failures of President Bush and his minions.
This cult-like devotion would be touching, were it directly toward something positive.
Defense Tech.org
Bush is terrorist of 91101, therefore both wars are illegal. Nesara requires the resignation of Bush and Cheney. 9-11-01 happened to keep them in office. See http://www.nesara.us. Also see http://www.fourwinds10.com and http://www.thelibertyclub.net/vicjo9/.
Nesara which was to be announced from Pentegon on September 11, 2001 and will be announced guaranteed by God will return our nation to being a truly free nation under the true Constitution. Believe it. Think upon it.
Prove it. Spread the truth!
For the truth & true freedom,
Victor
Politcians are always looking for the optimistic estimates. From the looks of things right now, it appears the increase in troops was a good idea. We can’t make up for the under-strength beginning of this thing, but we sure can make a dent in it.
You people are pathetic.
This war was provably based on lies (Downing Street Memo & Whitehouse Memo).
The Democrats haven’t done a single thing because the OIL COMPANIES AND CONTRACTORS DONATE TO BOTH PARTIES.
When can we quit clining to these bought-and-paid-for political parties and stand up as Americans?
We need to get out of this war, cut our spending budget in half, secure the borders and work on legitimate trade agreements that don’t reward corporations for taking out economy overseas.
Wake up and quit crying. THE BUSHES VACATION W? THE CLINTONS! It is always the elite vs the middle class throughout history. If you treat these policical parties (in reality a one-party system) like football teams while fighting amongst one another we will never get anywhere!
My God Man
What is everyones problem? Can it not be understood that this surge and the overall direction of our military presence in iraq. We need to get out of everybodies business and go back to our policy of non intervention in foreign wars. It has been proven over and over without a doubt that our own government lied to get us into this war. Not to mention the fact its involvement in the sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Or should I say the event that allowed the patriot act to get voted into law. Our government has broken so many laws of the constitution and bill of rights that it would be hard to count them. And still they are in office. Why This constitution that they seem to think nothing about has worked for the us for a long. The politicians have enjoyed the freedom to do as they wish for entirely way to long. They are citizens just like everyone else and they should have to abide by the same laws as we all do. Some would say that it is already to the point of a police state being implemented in the us. I thought that acting now would keep our liberties only to find out that the fight would be to get back the liberties that we have already lost. Those who have sworn to protect this nation and uphold the constitution have not upheld their oath. In fact they are doing everything they can to do away with any oversight at all. This is not a good direction for the us to be going. The farther we venture down this road the harder it will be to get back on track. The NWO is not the answer. The federal reserve bank is not controlled by nor is it held accountable by any governing body. People need to start asking questions that matter. Stop assuming that all is well. Expect the worse and hope and work for the best and maybe in the end you wont be disappointed. Strive for world peace and not just for personal gain. Money is not everything–just ask the families of those soldiers that have fallen while our government stayes the course on its fight against terrorist that itself has funded and trained for years only to make more enemies for america to fight. The only ones who gain from this are the defense contractors(war machine)and the ceos that start and end conflicts to fill their own pockets. god bless america and the rest of the world thank you and have a nice day
Americans have been taught to look at wars like sporting events, cheering for OUR SIDE. Well guess what, this war is bad for most of the planet. Some oil CEOs and weapons manufacturers make a killing off of it, but thousands upon thousands of soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians are killed and maimed.
Iraqis say their problems are now WORSE than when they had Saddam to deal with! What does that tell you? Enough of this “Ra ra ra!” dumb military junk. There’s nothing noble, honorable, or brave about illegally invading someone else’s country on the pretext of lies & minsinformation.
The American military has NOTHING to be proud of, unless they’re proud of acting like little bitches and following the insane demands of King Bush. How pathetic. Every dolt in backwater American thinks he can go to Iraq and then claim himself to be some kind of “hero.” It’s not that easy. It’s more heroic to educate yourself and THINK about what you’re actually doing, instead of just acting like a trained attack dog for the liars in the White House.
VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran
VA Complaint against NH VA Director Mark Levenston 9-14-07
A copy of this letter goes to Mark Levenston and Dr Dan Potenza
Peter Macdonald 465 Packersfalls rd Lee NH 03824
A crime against the United States has been committed here. A 100% service connected disabled veteran
Not neccessarily a lie. Possibly another calculated mis-direct or, nearly as bad, a basic misunderstanding by our esteemed Commander in Chief.
But of course!
But of course!
let
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