I’ve put this post back up at the top of the site, after today’s tragic events in Iraq.
When three American copters crashed over Iraq in about a week, Kiowa Warrior pilot ME chalked it up to dumb luck and thinly-armored aircraft. Now that a fourth and a fifth have been shot down, ME is having second thoughts. It could be that Iraq insurgents have gotten their hands on a new, more deadly strain of surface-to-air-missiles (SAMs), he thinks.
“Sunni militants” have recently boasted that “‘God has granted new ways’ to threaten U.S. aircraft,” the AP says. And that could be a major problem for U.S. commanders, the wire service observes, in another story. American forces “rely heavily on helicopters not only in combat but also to move soldiers and supplies around the country. Helicopters have been used more and more as the war progressed to avoid a bigger threat from roadside bombs.“
The latest helicopter casualty, an Apache, “exploded in a ball of fire” on Friday, according to witnesses.
“That’s unlikely to happen due to small arms fire,” ME says, “and the odds of hitting an Apache heads on with an unguided RPG [rocket-propelled grenade] are pretty slim.”
The fuel cells are crashworthy, and unless they are hit by something like an API (armor piercing incendiary — like a .50 cal or higher) shell, I don’t think they are going to explode. Hitting munitions onboard isn’t likely to make a fireball either. But the explosion of a SAM hitting it might look like a fireball.
If a copter pilot does get attacked by an advanced SAM, he has a couple of ways to defend himself. He can fire off flares to confuse heat-seekers. He can set off radar or infrared jammers. Or he can fly “NOE” (“Nap of the Earth”), very low to the ground, following the contours of the landscape. That “minimize[s] the amount of time to acquire, and shoot a targe — whether it’s an AK[-47 assault rifle], RPG, or SA-7/14/18 [SAM],” according to ME.
But in training for Iraq, ME recalls, “we weren’t too worried about SAMs… [W]e didn’t think they had very many of them, in operating condition, in the hands of trained users. The more likely threat was massed fire from the vastly more common AK and RPG.“
That threat assessment seems to be changing, quickly. “Based on what we have seen, we’re already making adjustments in our tactics and techniques and procedures as to how we employ our helicopters,” Maj. Gen. William Caldwell told reporters.
But there are only so many changes that can be made. These copters don’t have a lot of armor. And not much more can be added, without “trading off fuel, weapons, or some other weight,” ME notes. “Helicopters are already at very near their max weight… Improved electronics/avionics would help save a lot of weight, but most pilots would rather have the improved flight performance that reduced weight provides, rather than more armor.“
“The real problem,” he adds, “is the idea of using an anti-armor bird like the Apache or a scout like the Kiowa to slug it out with insurgents on the ground. Neither were really built for it, and the pilots aren’t trained for it (unless its done at the individual unit level). TF160 [160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment] teaches and trains the best air to ground engagement tactics, but the rest of the aviation community doesn’t get the ammunition, or range time to really teach it.“
OK, sure. But now that we’re in this counterinsurgent fight, what choice do those pilots really have?
UPDATE 02/08/07 11:10 AM: “The two military and intelligence sources believe al-Qaeda has organized a grouping of cells [with a mission of] deny[ing] Coalition forces the free use of helicopters to ferry troops, resupply outlying areas, and conduct assault missions,” Bill Roggio reports.
Al-Qaeda wants to force Coalition forces to use ground transportation, where it believes heavier casualties can be inflicted on U.S. forces via roadside bombing and mine attacks (IEDs). Helicpoter shoot-downs also “make for compelling television,” according to a military source, which “helps project the image of a deadly, unbeatable enemy.” Al-Qaeda is believed to have deployed multiple anti-aircraft cells along the known overflight routes in and around Baghdad.
The cells are thought to be armed with Russian made Strela SA-7 anti-aircraft missiles, a first generation shoulder fired anti-aircraft missile which is widely distributed throughout the world. These weapons are not as sophisticated as U.S. made Stingers, which were used with deadly consequences by mujahideen in Afghanistan against Soviet fixed and rotary wing aircraft. U.S. aircraft have systems to deter missile threats (jammers, flairs, chaff) but there are no reports these systems were deployed during any of the engagements.
Al-Furgan Foundation has already posted video of an insurgent attack that downed an apache. It can be seen at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee046ff204
If the insurgents really got hold of a batch of new SAM’s it’s almost the same situation like when the Muhjadeen in Afganisan got the Stingers some years back.
I smell external sponsorship.
A solution from some “old school” gunship people could be armed UH-1Ns flying in fire teams for recon, escort, and air support. Move low, move fast, don’t ever stop. 8 sets of eyes and quick reacting gunners wouldn’t give the bad guys any time to lock on, and all those rockets and miniguns would make his position untenable.
Could someone explain why all these choppers are flying apparent single ship missions? Seems to violate some principle of “mutual support”.
Maybe DT could explain why the Apache isn’t used more often? On paper, it looks like it would be ideal for service in Iraq: good against small arms fire, great sensors & target acquisition, speedy, etc. So what’s the problem?
I might be wrong, but I thought the Cobra was designed for escort and CAS in Vietnam, and the Apache was designed for Russian Tank busting during the Cold War. Both are vulnerable to ground fire, and SAM’s, but I think the Apache is more vulnerable, despite being more hi-tech, and is less suited for the task at hand, compared to the Cobra. That’s my impression from all the articles I have read over the years. I don’t have any hard numbers. It needs more miniguns, 70mm and 127mm rockets, and less ATGM’s.
Anyway, you have to love to insurgenices, they get more organized, and lethal over time; anyone that is suprised at the Pentagon should be fired. Still haven’t solved the IED problem, and now you throw in MANPAD, and eventually MANPAT, and that limits the movement of a large conventional force. 4GW, anyone have a solution? I don’t see it in the FY 2008 DoD budget.
If they would just use the equipment as it was designed and stop the stupid ROE’s they would not be having these problems. Think of the scene in “Full Metal Jacket” when the door gunner practices on water buffalo and other targerts, “you just don’t lead them as much”.
>The more likely threat was massed fire from the vastly more common AK and RPG.“
There are countermeasures against MANPADS. If it does the job enough, then wouldn’t it be better to fly high to avoid AK and RPG fires in low intensity conflicts (unless the sensors have low resolution to track and target insurgents forcing the helos to fly lower, and that is the mission)?
HEY FELLAS,
WHEN ARE WE GONNA GET SERIOUS AND KILL THESE ^*<I<ers war is war LET’S FIGHT IT TO WIN IT LIKE WE REALLY MEAN IT…
hOW CAN WE KNOW THEY DIDN’T GET STINGERS for sure HOWEVER THERE WAS A SHIPMENT OF SAM’S TO THE Iranians from Russia with love.. The new SamIII however they are all shite not Sunni…
Hmmm interesting isn’t it.
where have all the heroes gone.
Let the politicians off the field of battle.. and you will see them come..
I suggest using two Cobra’s (for small-size, minigun and small rockets) as main attack, two fast small birds with doorgunners and miniguns and a stand-by Apache with plenty of HE Hellfires (and the chaingun). Use the Cobra’s to kick the door in, the small craft as spotters/fast response and the Apache to pop pickups, buildings and bunkers. All this in a fast circle (or figure-eight) for strike-runs.
And please leave it to the pilots to adjust tactics on the fly. Restore more of the air-jockey spirit: these guys can fly allright, and should be able to be proud of they way they solve their problems.
I thinks there’s great equipment, but the tactics are very old-style or rigid. The military should promote and award new tactics and flexibility.
Thats the way the Germans in WW2 where so succesfull in the Blitzkrieg: there was a strong culture of profesionalism and initiative was respected. Dont micro manage everyhing: make battle groups, set goals and leave the commander on the ground (or in air in this case) to adjust himself to the situation.
Most wars are won by the soldiers, not by generals.
Advanced MANPADS will always present a deadly threat to helicopters. Experience suggests that tactics to minimise the threat degrade the effectiveness of the helicopters.
I’m sure I’m not the only one who recalls how the balance changed in Afghanistan when the Mujahideen were supplied with Stingers. As usual, it’s not so much a question of casualties, more a matter of the morale effect on both sides.
Short term solution could very well involve some old school Vietnam tricks. The aircav would fly a scout helo low and slow to bait in the VC. Little did the VC know, there’d be a cobra gunship or two waiting up high and in the sun. The moment the VC would engage, the Cobras would dive in on target.
I’d say we need to capture as much info as possible first. Find out what kind of missiles they’re shooting at the helo, and then see if that won’t get us some good countermeasure ideas. If they’re shooting IR guided missiles, maybe we should utilize our flares betters. If the enemy is launching laser or optical ATGMs, then perhaps more jinking and manuevering is in order.
As a long term solution, some coin Airplanes would make a nice acquisition. Something that can zoom over to the battlefield at speeds equal to or greater then a helicopter, and then loiter around the battle ground waiting for targets to pop up. A payload that is equal to or greater then an Apaches’ would be nice, another nice addition would be a powered remote turret similiar to chain gun mounts found on Apaches and Cobras. I know we used to have stuff like this, Broncos and dragonflies, but if I remember right, the airforce brass sold it all off. (Prolly the same wonderful folks who wanted to get rid of the A-10 a few years back)
Can your say RBS-70?, try the Google.
Some one had better get there hands on who supplied these things and why no one is working on a defense for this weapon.
Sounds like Iran smells blood and is pressing for the KILL. Hezbollah setting bombs on Isreali border provoking a Isreali responce resulting in a border fight. Iraq “civil war” all the sudden for some odd reason spending big bucks not on guns or such to kill opposing militias but Anti Air Missiles advanced enough to take down our Helo’s.
There was a time in our history when if you attacked US we at least stood shoulder to shoulder to fight them but I suspect that this will somehow be Bushitlers fault not sure yet how but somehow I am sure. Its great to have a excuse for all that is wrong in the world besides the ugly reality that there are people who want to kill US and if we don’t grow a sack and get them first our future generations will pay a thousand fold in blood and treasure.
I watched the video of the Apache attack last Friday and it was definitely a MANPAD, probably an SA-7 or maybe a 14. The shot was rear aspect, so the crew didn’t see it, and the automated defensive system did not dispense flares. The video shows three men, the middle one is definitely opening a case for a MANPAD.
But MANPADS are only part of the picture. According to some friends in Iraq, most of the helos were shot down with gunfire, RPG’s or even unguided rockets. My guess is that we’ve gotten too complacent with our flight routes to a certain extent.
With regard to ATGM’s, they certainly can be used in an anti-helo role. Russian HIND aircrew used to train shooting down other helo’s with ATGM’s.
There is no “cruising altitude” per se for helo’s. Altitude is largely dependent on threat and mission. Of course in Iraq you can’t avoid threat envelopes, only choose which one you want to be in.
I stayed away from the video until now. Looks like the TV station (or someone) censored the launcher. Given the size of the censoring bar compared to the size of the notional user, I looks more like my initial prediction was correct — some sort of MANPAD, about 4–5 ft long, less than 10cm or less in diameter.
Most Russian-made ATGMs are stand mounted, shorter and wider than what could be on that video.
Funny how Iran is acting the role of that the U.S. played in the Afghan Mujahideen vs USSR war. History just keep repeating itself, just different players.
If you were versed in realpolitik you wouldn’t be surprised at all. Not the first time in history one nation has armed the enemy of it’s enemy…make it sound like novelty or irony.
We need to develop MANPAD countermeasure systems. Set up a mock city with obstacles, fly through it and launch missiles at it. Develop working ideas or use it as a training ground.
Alternatively, use a Top Gun model and have the best pilots go to a specialized school to learn new techniques and bring them back to their fellow pilots.
While we’re on the subject: we could develop a active countermeasure system like TROPHY and attach it to helicopters. The alternative to slightly hobbling your air support is losing it entirely. Otherwise the choppers would be forced into deploying only at night, and then what in heck supports ground forces in the day?
Though I suspect Trophy would be reasonably light, except for the sensor system itself.
Well whatever it is (and Marshal over at TPM says it isn’t something new), the bottom line seems to be that we can no longer count on close air support.
So now what?
Good Conversation…let me add that early in 2005 Seymour Hersh reported that American Special Forces were operating in Iran, attempting to conduct recon on various nuclear weapons sites. Now I believe the Iranians are conducting operations in Iraq. The ease with which the helicopters were downed indicate something more advanced than an SA-7, massed ground fire, or RPG’s. The flight profiles further that belief. With the exception of the BlackHawk Corporation Helo, not one was hovering or leaving/entering an LZ. That effectively rules out RPG’s and small arms. My guess and that’s all this is–is that Iranian SF teams are operating in Iraq testing Russian SA-18’s out on us…The Federation of American Scientist website indicates that even with protective IRCM the hit probability with that missile is in the 75% category. This is going to get messy. Effective control is being lost and a regional war is looming.
People are quite quick here to blame Iran. I do not see any reason for that.
There have been reports about Saudi finance to Sunni insurgents to buy manpads:
(quote)Private Saudi citizens are giving millions of dollars to Sunni insurgents in Iraq and much of the money is used to buy weapons, including shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, according to key Iraqi officials and others familiar with the flow of cash.
Saudi government officials deny that any money from their country is being sent to Iraqis fighting the government and the U.S.-led coalition.
But the U.S. Iraq Study Group report said Saudis are a source of funding for Sunni Arab insurgents. Several truck drivers interviewed by The Associated Press described carrying boxes of cash from Saudi Arabia into Iraq, money they said was headed for insurgents.
…
In one recent case, an Iraqi official said $25 million in Saudi money went to a top Iraqi Sunni cleric and was used to buy weapons, including Strela, a Russian shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile. The missiles were purchased from someone in Romania, apparently through the black market, he said.(/quote)
Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235407,00.html
Then there is this:
(quote)In December, a spokesman for Saddam Hussein’s ousted Baath party, Khudair al-Murshidi, told The Associated Press in Damascus, Syria, that Sunni insurgents had received shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles and “we are going to surprise them,” meaning U.S. forces.
Al-Murshidi did not say when or how the missiles were obtained.
Insurgents have used SA-7s, a shoulder-fired missile with an infrared homing device, against U.S. and British aircraft since 2003.(/quote)
Link: http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/news/local/3585468.html
The chopers went down over Anbar, Sunni territory, Iranian missile crews would hardly survive there.
So stop the stupid talk about Iranian involvement and start thinking Wahabi money.
The 9/11 pilots were not Persian but Saudi.
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/WORLD_NEWS/070208/AP_US_CHOPPERS.gif
Yep, mostly Al Anbar. But Diyala is close to Baghdad I believe, and I think Salahuddin is further north. Both may possess a significant minority Shia population.
Two Sea Knights went down in Al Anbar, those are probably comparatively “easy” to shoot down, especially when they’re just cruising along point to point.
You could develop virtual simulators but you’d need a nice gimbal system that could “throw” the pilot to simulate G forces. Otherwise it’s just buzzing around hitting buttons.
Interesting thoughts on the “Iran Connection.” If they are not the ones financing the insurgency, then it begs the question: Why is Bush trying so hard for an invasion pretext for Iran? What does he want there? He lied to us about Iraqi WMD; that much was obvious from the beginning (please.) Is it just oil, or something else? Don’t we have a right to know by now, what the real story is?
Although I agree with most of what Solomon wrote, I was supprised by the statement that…
“The Federation of American Scientist website indicates that even with protective IRCM the hit probability with that missile [SA-18] is in the 75% category”.
Since I work in T&E of MWS I thought that that this percentage was very high. When I checked out the FAS website this is what I found on the SA-18.
“The new seeker [SA-18] offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30–48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24–30%.“
Based on this, I believe that it is more likely that an older missile has been modified with a different spectral signature or an entirely new threat has been introduced.
I seriously doubt there are SA-18’s in country. If any of these helo’s were shot down by an 18, then we’ll recover the parts, identify them and know for certain. That kind of information I’m sure would get leaked.
If you look in the video the Apache did not dispense flares and the shot was rear-aspect. Those are two important points. Flares will get dispense automatically by missile warning systems or by the crew. Since no flares were dispensed, the crew didn’t see the missile (not surprising in a rear-aspect engagement, especially with an Apache) and the MWS didn’t see it either.
Our MWS systems are pretty good but they’re not perfect. If I had to guess I would say the insurgents have discovered a vulnerability or a gap in MWS coverage and are taking their shots from a particular range and angle to exploit this.
Finally, Sunni insurgents and AQI are not getting MANPADs from Iran. That’s silly. Besides, they still have plenty of stocks from the caches Saddam placed all over the country prior to the war.
Doesn’t have to be Iran: Al Qaeda had training camps in Afghanistan during the ‘90s to teach all sorts of junk, or Syria is funneling arms to the Sunnis.
Bear in mind the Iranians have copies of Stinger Missiles: The Muj sold some to Iran after they were done with the Soviets.
But at this point, it could just as easily be Syria or Iran. Both are fighting proxy wars in Iraq, against the rival sect and against America.
“Interesting thoughts on the “Iran Connection.” If they are not the ones financing the insurgency, then it begs the question: Why is Bush trying so hard for an invasion pretext for Iran? What does he want there? He lied to us about Iraqi WMD; that much was obvious from the beginning (please.) Is it just oil, or something else? Don’t we have a right to know by now, what the real story is?
Posted by: phil0leech at February 8, 2007 10:58 AM“
Please, we’ve heard this joke before-it’s not funny.
If Bush lied-then so did the UN, John Kerry, Hillary Clinto and Tony Blair-so did about a thousand other folks. Oh and Saddam didn’t fund terrorists in the Middle East and other parts of the world and didn’t plan on re-starting his weapons programs the day sanctions ended.
As for Iran, they’ve been at war with us since 1979-this is just an extension of their foreign policy and it’s obvious they are just one of many nations with their fingers in the Iraq pie.
I think it’s neat that someone has surmised that an it’s an “Iranian missle team”, but since he thinks they couldn’t survive-you’re dumb enough to be convinced they aren’t part of the insurgency and that Bush has fabricated all this speculation.
Yeah you’re a genius!
Bush is in control of the NY Times, Al Jazeera and all these folks on Defensetech.
Al qaeda? The US is still fighting al qaeda in Iraq? I mean, there are no other forces fighting the US than Al qaeda?
In case you didn’t get the message the Mujahideen Shura has a faction that is supported directly by Al Qaida in it’s ranks. All are dedicated to at a minimum, removing the Crusader occupiers.
I wouldn’t discount Iranians supporting the Sunni insurgents-Reagan supported things Americans didn’t like too (like death squads, gave TOWs to Iran and Stingers to the Muj, and money to eventually form Al Qaeda). If America can do unsavory realpolitik, it’s not unconceivable other countries could too.
But yeah, keep your eyes on Syria. It may not be as rich as Iran, but it’s probably helping the Sunnis a lot more. Only the evangelicals want to invade Syria “to protect Israel” as they put it. The neocons need blackjuice, and Syria don’t got any. Iran on the other hand…
Good Morning Folks,
Many interesting comments here, it appears sholder fired missiles are a hot topic of conversation but I don’t think they represent that serious of a threat to U.S. helicopters. There are several reason but the biggest two are cost, in excess of $5,000.00 on the international arms market and the level of training required for the operator.
In brief these thing are just to expensive and to technical to use for them to be a vaible choice for the insurgents when other option are avaiable.
The military is understandably very secretive on this subjuect but it appears that since 2003 the U.S. has lost 59 helicopters in Iraq. From this group about a third of of the downings has been called “accident” usually meaning pilot error or a maintence problem that went catastrophic in flight and only three not counting the Blackhawk that went doen on 1/30 (it may in fact be from a sholder fired weapon due to it being a high value target with 2 Cols. and a Lt. Col. on board, the insurgents also have very good intell too.) have been attribuated to a sholder fired AA missile. The remainder have either been due to small arms fire or RPG’s. Other the the mentioned time fuse that is set at 1000 ft. there is also a proximity fuse round that has proved quite deadly.
The best way to keep from getting shot down is the same as it was in Vietnam, stay out of the kill box. In Vietnam over 2,500 helicopters were downed by mainly small arms fire the bad guys have time to learn how to do this. The CH-46 that went down earlier this week was flying at about 200 feet whent it go hit, it was on a milk run and didn’t need to be flying in the kill box.
As an old 60’s protest song “Wher have all the Flowers Gone” say “…when will they ever learn.“
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
I hate to bring up such an obvious point, but there were a substantial number of SA-7s in the old Iraqi army’s inventory. If it turns out some of these helo shoot-downs were caused by MANPADS, my money would be on domestic sourcing.
I remember an LA Times article from back in 2003 talking about the Coalition Provisional Authority was buying them back off the streets for as little as 500USD a piece.
Homeland Security: My question is, are foreign saboteurs in our country, targeting our oil refineries, oil tankers, CHEMICAL PLANTS, etc. etc.? EX: The EXPLOSION, 3-day fire at Kansas City, MO Chemical Plant, forced evacuation of 500 people;
EPA “reassures” that the toxic smoke & crap released into Air wasn’t dangerous (yeah, right, they said that air at 9–11 World Trade Center cleanup site too, now first responders, other volunteers, rescue dogs sick, maybe will die).
I don’t believe if Terrorist Sabotage has been or is occurring, that the Feds OR the Media, will tell us; no, they’ll suppress, censor, coverup the nature of the so-called “Accidents”.
EX: Were the TWO explosions & fires at the TEXAS BP OIL REFINERY due to BP’s el-cheapo lack of maintenance, causing the “accidental” explosion? Or was it really a terrorist act of sabotage?
We know Google, other Internet companies who operate in Communist Red China, are helping the Chinese gov’t. CENSOR the Internet there, CENSOR their news; how soon before they do the same here? Or, are they already self-censoring?
We know FOX Faux News network self-censors, lies, & gives out BUSH propaganda. If Fox News “investigative reporters” discovered any such cover-ups by Bush admin., would they keep silent about it? Bet your booty!
Good Morning Robot Economist,
You are 100% correct Robot, Saddam’s old Army has a rather large invantory of SA-7 Sam’s, but. The SA-7 like all of the other man portable SAMs require a lot of maintence while in storage, batteries, cuirt boards and fuel periodically need replacing, this just didn’t happen. Any of those old SAM-7’s still around are junk.
The current stock seems to be comming from North Korea and China, both rip off as I know you know of the old Soviet era SAM-7. Since direct shipments into Iraq could be a problem, Iran has been used as a country of convience of arms into Iraq.
A post from the DoD today on this issue seems to confirm what I said in my post of yesterday. The only difference is that the say 120 helicopters have been lost in the GWOT, 30 through maintence problems the rest through enemy ground fire and SAM’s. The number for SAM’s is not given but the overall tone of the statement down plays there roll in bringing down U.S. and British helicopters. I will stick with my extimate of three downings untill a better accounting og this issue is posted.
And yes I knjow that the DoD is still stucking with a maintence problem with the CH-46 downed earlier this week but the video that was put up on Wednesday is pretty convenicing that it was taken out by ground fire and an RPG hit on the port side aft, and so far when this type of disagreement of fact has happened the insurgents have been found to be the most correct and I haver no doubt that it will be the same here too.
To those of you who still want to believe in the Bush green machine, why would the insurgents have a video if this was not a planned set up ambush of a U.S. CH-46?
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Byron,
I’m not sure where you’re getting your information, but manpads, particularly SA-7’s, have pretty long shelf lives. The vast majority of manpads in Iraq are from Iraq stockpiles that were dispersed prior to the war. We’ve found functioning SA-7’s 14’s in Afghanistan that date from the 1980’s that are still operational. SA-7s are particularly long-lived because they don’t have a cooled seeker head.
The CH-46 shootdown video was not an RPG. First of all, the weapon guided on the aircraft. Secondly, the weapon had a smoke trail (RPG’s do not), and third, RPGs self-destruct after about 800 meters or so. The helo was far beyond 800 meters when it was hit.
It was almost certainly a manpad — probably a 7 or a 14.
Manpads are always a serious threat, but often crews will prefer to fly in manpad engagement envelopes rather than RPG and small-arms, particularly over urban terrain.
http://www.combatreform2.com/escape.htm
* MAKE HELICOPTERS FLY FASTER AND/OR QUIETER
* STOP WEARING STUPID DARK GREEN CAMOUFLAGE ON HELICOPTERS OVER SKY BLUE AND TAN DAYLIGHT IRAQ
* PROVIDE HELICOPTER CREW ESCAPE CAPABILITY SO LOSSES WE CANNOT AVOID DON’T BECOME A MORALE BUSTER/PR DISASTER
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