Home » Weapons » Ammo and Munitions » Real E.F.P.: Pocket-Sized Tank Killer

Real E.F.P.: Pocket-Sized Tank Killer

by david_axe on February 14, 2007

The pictures released last week of Iraqi high-tech explosives surprised me. These special ‘superbombs’ that have caused so many US casualties — they look like they had been assembled in someone’s garage.
These bombs belong to a class known as EFP –‘Explosively Formed Projectile’ or ‘Explosively Formed Penetrator,’ depending on who you’re talking to. They compress a metal liner into a slug and fire it at the target some distance away.
slam3.jpegThe picture shows what a real EFP munition looks like. This is M2 Selectable Lightweight Attack Munition (SLAM). It’s small enough to put in your pocket and weighs a couple of pounds.
This version has been used by US Special Forces for the last 15 years or so. As GlobalSecurity​.org describes it, SLAM is versatile, too:

It will be used to support hit-and-run, ambush, and harassing, and urban warface missions. SLAM will also be employed by Light Combat Engineers and Rangers where missions warrant the use of such a device.…SLAM is lightweight, lethal, easily emplaced, and can be carried in the quantity necessary to neutralize a broad range of targets.

Different modes allow SLAM to be triggered by the heat or magnetic signature of a passing vehicle or by a timer — or it can be set off by a human operator. It can be emplaced in seconds and spits out a lethal slug which can punch through 40mm of steel armor at a range of 25 feet. You can leave it on the ground covered in dirt to attack a vehicle’s belly, or conceal it beside a road for side attack.
No doubt the Russians and Chinese have their own versions of SLAM, and these have probably been copied too. So you might expect a rougher, cheaper copy to appear in Iraq if it was supplied from the outside.
But as has been observed here, anyone can make crude and simple EFP munitions in a basic workshop. All you need is a lump of plastic explosive and a piece of copper. Shape the copper into a saucer, put the explosive under it, and you’re there. Obviously this will be a lot less efficient, accurate and reliable than something like SLAM (optimal design of the the metal ‘lens’ is an art requiring a lot of computer power), but you can compensate by making it ten times bigger if you need to.
Maybe the insurgents should be given some credit for being able to build their own gear, or maybe there’s more intelligence we don’t know. But if EFP mines were being supplied by an outside source, you might expect to see somethng a lot slicker.
UPDATE 11:37: Speaking of surprises, Centcom commander Adm. Fox Fallon doesn’t agree that the Iranian government has been supplying Iraq’s EFPs. He’s not alone. Joint Chiefs chairman Gen. Peter Pace, on the other hand, seemed to back away from his previous, doubting statements — at least a little. More here.
UPDATE 01:20: The bombs aren’t the only issue, of course. According to the Telegraph, Iranian-supplied sniper rifles are also making their way into Iraq.
UPDATE 02:24: Bush has no doubt.
UPDATE 15/02/07: Steyr, the Austrian makers of those .50 cal sniper rifles say there’s no proof they came from Iran — and that they might not even be Steyr-made rifles at all.
David Hambling

Share |

{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }

Headline Junky February 14, 2007 at 12:15 pm

I seem to remember the intel briefers claiming that the devices used in Iraq were beyond the capacity of DIY’ers, and would require the technical know-how of either the Iranians or Hezbollah. Also that they were smuggled into the country in ready-to-assemble kits. Which surprised me, given the photos that were shown.
Glad to see I’m not the only one who found that odd.

Reply

Nicholas Weaver February 14, 2007 at 12:18 pm

Making it reasonably good is not computing power, but manufacturing.
As a thought exercise: what is necessary.
a: A good engineer/designer. Its not the compute thats hard to get (your mouse has more computing power than was used to design the first nuclear weapons), but the designer who can learn enough about explosives and do enough programming to verify that his designs are good.
However, it only takes ONE such designer who posts his design to get disseminated to everyone. For all we know, this has already happened and continues to happen.
b: A design which can use simple but effective tooling. Doing the case is easy: specify some standard length and diameter of pipe which is packed with explosive, and a hole for the detonator. Thus the photos of all the EFPs in a group looking the same is not a suprise, but a necessity.
(However, I doubt those EFPs are government made. Anyone without a trivial set of restrictions on available materials will use plastic for the sidewals, not metal. You don’t WANT shrapnel except in the blast direction).
But building the penetrator itself is, umm, interesting for an insurgency. Probably the easiest manufacturing would involve banging a piece of copper (probably a couple feet of powerline) on an anvil into shape, but the anvil is now a pretty significant and important piece of the tooling, as it is necessary to define the shape of the EFP slug.
More mass production wolud probably be cast instead, but this requires being able to melt the metal.
The holy grail insurgent EFP-design would use something readily available and innocuous as the anvil and some standard short pieces of pipe.

Reply

C-Low February 14, 2007 at 12:36 pm

Full court press
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml= /news/2006/06/25/wirq225.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/06/25/ixnews.html
Picture of another EFP suspected made in factory. But I guess this is all just propoganda becuase it doesn’t fit in your hand. Or I wonder if maybe the US SOF EFP uses high grade explosives and is meant to be much more specifically placed as a demo weapon? Stupid americans you know are always trying to do more with less to limit civilian casualties or some such retardation. Much better to use cheeper larger quanities of explosives and if you kill more civilans that is a bonus anyway after all every time a terrorist bravely slaughters Iraqi civilians at market it is just more proof positive of why the US is losing right right?

Reply

Bryan Price February 14, 2007 at 1:10 pm

My son has had his vehicle hit twice now with the IED version of EFP. Both times, they seemed to have been homemade versions, which really makes you wonder if anybody is “manufacturing” them (certainly not like a factory!)
We’ve lost $12,000,000,000 in US cash in the country, in one go. Insurgents using our cash against us? <sarcasm> They certainly wouldn’t do that would they? </sarcasm>
It seems that Minister of the Interior is more aligned with the insurgents than the US.

Reply

king abdullah February 14, 2007 at 1:14 pm

yes, beware the persians. protect the peace-loving sunnis like the good tools you are and by all means ignore the saudi border and the sunni insurgency. now roll over. now fetch. good americans

Reply

chris February 14, 2007 at 1:18 pm

Pace and Fallon say they don’t know if the Iranian government is involved in supplying EFPs, but they both acknowledge that they are Iranian supplied. We now know that part of a shipment of sniper rifles sold to the Iranian police have been found in Iraq by coalition forces. See:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran313.xml
It’s interesting that this site doesn’t mention the sniper rifles at all. Seems like a big omission to me.

Reply

Noah Shachtman February 14, 2007 at 1:22 pm

I wouldn’t read too much into the “omission,” Chris. I was posting on the rifles as you were commenting.
Hugs,
nms

Reply

rudy giuliani February 14, 2007 at 1:32 pm

maybe if the soldiers had done their job guarding the explosives at al qaqaa, we wouldn’t have had so many casualties. when i was in the nam, we did our jobs.

Reply

C-Low February 14, 2007 at 4:55 pm

Noah Your crew has been working overtime all day what are we pushing 4post all trying to get whatever bit of doubt they can into the Iranian support question. You guys want to believe it not so so bad.
Chris is right on the last post all leaning to question the Iranian involvement you leave a one liner update about the most important story. The .50 cal Sniper rifle story is proof positive that is as close to the smoking gun as you can get short seeing it personally for yourself. That .50 cal story should be at least a one post if not more by itself becuase it answers the from were question that is left by the manufactured but were question you guys have worked so hard to push with the EFP’s.
For those that don’t know Styer a Austrian gun manufacturer over major US protest sold Iran something like 800 .50 cal sniper rifles supposibly for Iranian use on border security against drug dealers. Within literally days of dilivery we began losing guys to this weapon. A .50 cal can penetrate our SAPI plates at damm near a 100yrd range were a 7.62X54 wont even come close to that capability at a few hundred yrds. Just recentley we captured a major stash of these babies bringing the captured total in Iraq to over a 100 rifles.
Why is that huge? Well Styer can confirm the serial numbers for those rifles as the ones sold to Iran and one or two could be written off as theft but over a hundred no.
Noah and the defencetech crew know this full well and they know that if Iran supplied the .50 cals more than likely they supplied the other stuff mortars, rifles, MANPADS, RPG’S, EFP’s and so on. They see the forest and its purely partisan to try to point everyone to one tree that is questionable without showing the full forest along with it.
Unless we are now going to go hardcore truther style and start either trying to say the Jihadi’s penetrated Iran stole their brand new shipment of prized .50 cal rifles then smuggled them into Iraq and I guess purposley popped some US guys then allowed themselves to get caught (super Jihadi theory), or maybe we can say Styer a Austrian company became a new member of the neo-con Cabal and made two batch of .50 cals with same serial numbers one for Iran one for the Bushitler neo-con cabal to use the Mossad to penetrate Iraq snipe some US guys then sneak into the Jihadi’s house hide the weapons at first one here and there then at recentley in one big pile so they get caught (super Bushitler/Neo-con/Cabal/Joooo theory can vary from group to group the name).
The Islamic Radicals in Iraq both stripes have been waging Jihad against US like it or not. Blood enemies or not the Radical Sunni & Radical Shia are under a “my enemys enemy is my friend” type alliance agianst Big Satan aka US and the Apostate regiems western leaning muslims.
Sadr’s Mehdi is not targeting AQ/Bathist Sunni radicals only the Moderate sunni? The Sunni AQ/Bathist radicals are not targeting Sadr/Mehdi but Shia moderates? Why is that and if these two are such blood enemies why were they open allies declaring support for eachother in the 2004′ FAlluja/Anbar & Karbala/S. Iraq uprisings? Both Moderate Shia & Sunni are our allies and the Radicals worst enemys.

Reply

Max February 14, 2007 at 6:32 pm

C-Low, if you’re going to attack the defensetech folks for being deliberately misleading, it’s best not to do so by being deliberately misleading yourself. You say, ‘within literally days of the shipment our guys were being killed’. The Daily Telegraph article, in contrast, says ‘Within 45 days of the first HS50 Steyr Mannlicher rifles arriving in Iran, an American officer in an armoured vehicle was shot dead by an Iraqi insurgent using the weapon.’
Hyperbole serves only to weaken your argument. Please refrain from it.

Reply

D Smith February 14, 2007 at 6:40 pm

I don’t agree posting the formulas for making these EFP’S . Who in the world knows who is copying the formulas ,whether terrorists in this country or others. It’s inadvisable to give this formula to anyone out side our great military. How much damage can it cause the innocent by any halfwit running the streets that hates our system or beliefs . Of course I’m an Old vet & don’t pretend to even fathom the present day technology.

Reply

engr February 14, 2007 at 7:58 pm

Why cant you understand the difference between Iran supplying weapons/tactics and the government ordering such transfer. In your “Update” section you seem to show Fallon and Pace differing with Bush when in fact they are saying the same thing. Iranian military involved with weapons/tactics transfer but unsure who authorized. You guys are not that dense. Right?

Reply

C-Low February 14, 2007 at 10:39 pm

Cernig & Nicholas
Ahh I see you guys have gone with a variation of choice B)
“or maybe we can say Styer a Austrian company became a new member of the neo-con Cabal and made two batch of .50 cals with same serial numbers one for Iran one for the Bushitler neo-con cabal to use the Mossad to penetrate Iraq snipe some US guys then sneak into the Jihadi’s house hide the weapons at first one here and there then at recentley in one big pile so they get caught (super Bushitler/Neo-con/Cabal/Joooo theory can vary from group to group the name).”
Super Neo-con’s using thier agents at the shill.conbot Daily Telegraph to cook the Intel. They have hands everywere man EVERYWERErrr! WOOOOOooo Are you guys going to roll directley into my exact option B if say the Daily Telegraph story is confirmed or do you guys have another variation on the burner? I suspect you may want to start working one if you don’t.
Max thanks for the correction that was not meant as hyperbole just pure error on my part for some reason I read that as 4-5 days I don’t know guess some of those holes in my brain do sometimes effect how those cynaps fire huh..
And I didn’t mean to slam the defencetech guys Noah and the rest seem like desent folk but everyone has partisan leanings of one kind or another on all sides wether they admit such or not and every once in awhile they show through like todays really undeserved assualt on a military intellegence report that is not news to anyone who has been paying attention. And that is were I saw the partisanship they have been paying attention and can see the forest.

Reply

Solomon February 15, 2007 at 2:20 am

David,
Where the hell did this come from??? Nice piece of gear, but is this general issue??? I’ve never been a part of the Special Forces but I have worked with members of the same and have never seen this item. And I’ve studied many of their missions and this would have come in handy for quite a few of them so what gives??? Is this real or memorex??? And if its real, has it been as effective as advertised??? Has it been used in combat??? Why is it limited to Special Operations????

Reply

David Hambling February 15, 2007 at 2:49 am

Thanks for the Janes’ info Cernig – sounds like the ‘garage made’ theory has some supporters.
SLAM certainly is very real – search on “selectable lightweight attack munition” and you’ll get all the details.
The DT seems to be the sole source for the Steyr sniper rifle story, we’ll see if it pans out.

Reply

JoSchmo February 15, 2007 at 8:58 am

You must mean CARGO PANTS. That thing won’t fit in normal pants pockets. The whole point of the EFPs found in Iraq was to implicate the Iranians, not to tout their technical skills. I wonder if this thing could really take down a MBT from a realistic range.

Reply

PhilLeech February 15, 2007 at 9:14 am

This is just like the “NUKE-Ya-ler” weapons the Iranians are supposedly years from developing: They must be really dumb if this EFP is all they can come up with. Folks, if they’ve got Enriched Uranium, THEY’VE GOT THE BOMB. All it takes from there is…the will to use it! Its not like a Plutonium Implosion Device (the second bomb.) It doesn’t take years to figure out. Its just dangerous to use. My understanding is that US forces caught these guys RED-HANDED coming across the border: Whom do you trust?

Reply

Ed February 15, 2007 at 12:20 pm

I would like to know why you would post an artical saying how to make a EFP. And the US wonders how the insurents can make homemade bombs that can take out tanks, bradleys and trucks. The answer is at military.com, thanks

Reply

Stefan Skans February 15, 2007 at 12:24 pm

“Shape the copper into a saucer, put the explosive under it, and you’re there.” Not really, the beauty of it is how you initiate the explosive charge, which makes it different from a regular shaped charge.

Reply

Al February 15, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Aaron February 16, 2007 at 12:17 am

As for those sniper rifles, they could just as easily have bought them in gun shows in the US and shipped them over there.
And we wouldnt have any records of it either…
Good work ashcroft!

Reply

Wembley February 16, 2007 at 3:07 am

You don’t need a garage to get these , just an AK-47. Just go to your local metalworking workshop (he’ll be in Yellow Pages) and say:
“Here are the specs, we want 200 of these. Then you get your wife and kids back.”
Kidnapping is a way of life in Iraq, and who’s going to tell the authorities that they’ve been arming terrorists afterwards?
Those rifles are a bit fishy. Seems like it’s a good allegation to make, but where the the pics and serial numbers? And why hasn’t it been followed up?

Reply

Mysticdog February 16, 2007 at 12:58 pm

You don’t need a sophisticated program or explosives engineer to design the charge. All you need is one charge someone else made, and reverse engineer it.
And though its been pointed out once, it bears repeating – you don’t need the perfect curve or explosive shape. If its less than perfect, just using more explosive and metal will be fine.
The shia insurgents go across the border constantly – it would be crazy for them not get parts from Iran. But it doesn’t have to be a government program, and in fact it probably isn’t – there are literally billions of dollars in US dollars floating around Iraq, and anyone could pay a private shop a few hundred dollars to make these.
Melting copper is easy. Beating copper is easy. Melting TNT is easy, and pressing a wax/RDX/HMX mix into a form is easy. The only really challenge is the initiators, which also isn’t that challenging in a country full of abandoned munitions.
And ultimately, even if the president of Iran was sealing each charge with kiss before they went over the border, the US bears the culpability for not using enough troops to secure that border anyway. Keeping Iraq in chaos is a surefire, if cynical, way to keep the US out of Iran. We constantly use the phrase “fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”, why wouldn’t an equally cynical Iran follow our example?
Ultimately, the whole Iraq venture is a fiasco built on a lie. We shouldn’t have done it, and having done it, we didn’t do it right.
Are we now going to follow that up with one more huge mistaken war, which will also be poorly executed on the cheap?

Reply

Joe B. February 16, 2007 at 1:11 pm

“and that they might not even be Steyr-made rifles at all.”
Iranian copies of Steyr rifles?

Reply

frg February 16, 2007 at 4:40 pm

About austrian rifles, Secretary Gates and General Pace both said:
I don’t know.
http://www.defenselink.mil/Transcripts/Transcript.aspx?TranscriptID=3890
(February 15, 2007 Defense Department Media Roundtable)

Reply

Maxtrue February 16, 2007 at 8:28 pm

What is this Any ideas? On another note, if the Navy is gearing up for massive rail cannons, how difficult would it be for supplying our snipers with a rail rifle that can out match existing ones? I read about all this futuristic technology, but I see little of it helping us in Iraq.

Reply

Stefan Skans February 16, 2007 at 10:42 pm

Defensetech.org has not helped the insurgents in any way giving them information about how to make a EFP,
it’s way more complex than a piece of metal and some explosives, yes you can reverse engineer it, go ahead (thou I woldn’t recomend it), but true facts about it should NEVER be posted here. I think we all agree on that.
So please, no technical detailes, some of us know, some don’t, let’s keep it that way.

Reply

jlincoln February 22, 2007 at 5:42 pm

Having developed EFPs for the TOW missile in the early 80s,I am aware of their capability and limitations. For the full effect,the charge must within a limited distance of the target, and anything other than 90 degrees at impact, the penetration is reduced.Yes they are very effective,but firing conditions can limit effectiveness.

Reply

Bill Webb February 23, 2007 at 8:50 am

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Spezialfahrzeug GmbH is one of several wholly owned subsidaries of General Dynamics, a US corporation, located in several NATO and EU countries. The plot gets thickerer…

Reply

Manny February 23, 2007 at 9:27 am

Some times, quite often, there is too much information posted that should remain, undisclosed. Too often data makes it’s way onto open forums that should not be made public. PERIOD.

Reply

Roy Lally February 23, 2007 at 9:53 am

OUR MEN AND WOMEN ARE GETTING KILLED BY THESE EXPLOSIVES AND YOU WANT TO GIVE THEM CREDIT!!!!!WOULD YOU STILL GIVE THEM CREDIT IF THEY KILLED YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply

lgb2583 February 23, 2007 at 10:30 am

I have to agree with Manny.
Once upon a time, we had secrets.
Now it seems politicians and newspeople
are always “one-upping” each other to
come out with some new information.
Some of the military leaders are aiding and abetting. If the public does not need to know
the details of armament and intelligence, keep
it confidential

Reply

Herb February 23, 2007 at 10:31 am

If the americans in this country don,t wake up there isn’t going to be a United State of America. This country is letting to many people come here and get a free ride and we are paying for it every day. If you are an american start standing up for the right to be called that. If you have anything in front of american then PLEASE LEAVE because you are not an american.I am getting tired of paying taxes in this country and giving it away to others that are not 100% americans.

Reply

Dan Ross February 23, 2007 at 10:49 am

Iran wanted a democracy, and the US forced a dictatorship on them. The US tells China to do what Iran did, and what if they do? Then will you hate the Chinese? Probably. Iran never killed one American, they only held some perverted US people captives, and then when the proper US President was elected they let them go unharmed. You believe the press biases the news when it comes to elections, and politics, but you can

Reply

lgb2583 February 23, 2007 at 10:56 am

Dan Ross, do you have any proof of this nonsense?
What kind of perversion where the Americans involved in? When have we told China to do like Iran? Seems they are quite similar already.
Where you around in the 50′s when the Shah took over to know what the Iranians wanted?

Reply

A. Stone February 23, 2007 at 11:01 am

Mr. Ross, you undoubtable have a skewed view of world politics based on your choice to ignore common sense and focus on religion to try to make your point. While I don’t support everything the US has done abroad, I can tell you the free world faces a threat that could ultimately destroy everything we hold dear, and I know where you stand.

Reply

Sgt Sweeney February 23, 2007 at 11:19 am

Well, it seams any more that every time i watch the news or read a paper I get really pissed off. All you hear is we are loosing we cant win, we need to be more sensitive. What a bunch of crap!!! In a war you let the bullets fly and the blood flow! I was there for the invasion and I heard the same thing then. And we stomped a mud hole in them. Then we became sensitive. Our own elected(a real joke) politicans tried to paint us as killers and hinder the completion of the mission. How many times did we have al sadar cornered after the killed americans and hajis? Why did we let them go? All that does is show the enemy we aren’t willing to finish the job. The men in uniform are ready to get those bubs but why do our leaders prevent it. The are getting just what they wanted, Veietnam. Any victory or advancements go unheard and hidden by our communist media. All you see is the death and suffering that is war, and the anti American propaganda that comes from there treasonis holes. I think we need to kick the media out, seal off the iranians and syrans. And kill all of them(bad guys) You shoot at US forces and pitch your rifle and now you get a nice meal and nice blanky then they ask you some questions, appologize, pay you for any property damage and send you on your way to kill US troops again. I would cut them in half with my 240. That sensitivity is why we are still screwing around with a third world country. You can thank the liberals for that. And thank the weakling republicans that want to play nice with the liberals, so every one can be happy. Grow some balls, the troops need stong leaders not wimps or o-bamas or clintons. Well I guess I really sound like a nut now, but guess what? I don’t care, I know I am right!
Sgt Sweeney
USMC 3/5 2003

Reply

lgb2583 February 23, 2007 at 11:28 am

Agreed Sarge
These people that keep saying we have another
Vietnam are correct in the politicians
and media caused the problem in Vietnam are
the same type doing it again. Even Jane Fonda
had to put in her 2 cents again.
The military did not lose Vietnam. The people
here lost it following the politicians

Reply

airbornebob February 23, 2007 at 12:45 pm

Above all else we must support our people in a foreign land that we have placed in harm’s way. The only question is when and how will we get them out in time for letting the Israelies leveling the area with nukes.

Reply

Beentheredonethat February 23, 2007 at 12:55 pm

It is my opinion, that there is FAR more at stake then meets the eye,to the current situation in Iraq. I believe most of you would agree with this premise.
Guess what country is a major roadblock (remember I did not say the only roadblock) to what some people call the “new world order” (and don’t laugh, just think about it)all those politicians whom are described in these postings and conservative blogs elsewhere,are not just
leftist,liberals,weenies,pacifists,gloabal warming theorist, or what ever tag you want to lay upon the rhetoric spewing from their pie-holes and the behaviorisms you will (and have) observe(d) as treacherous (which of course they are!)the point I am trying to make is, that they (the reported liberal left,which includes the media establishment and even weak-knee’d republicans etc.)have as a collective goal,which is to see to it(which means,make it happen) the slow and almost unnoticeable disintegration of the United States.
Why else would people,i.e. liberls like the Clintons (and others of thier ilk) who have said in the past,”it is not FAIR, that the U.S. is the only superpower” which is why they gave the Chinese, U.S. weapons secrets(of course I have no concrete proof of this alleged malfeasance, only my sincere belief). This is my opinion, I would be interested in your comments and other view points.

Reply

Hugh Winter February 23, 2007 at 12:56 pm

Mr Ross obviously liberal has forgotten that we are not responsible for what a few old white me did at the end of WWI and WWII. Iran was a dictatorship and with all dictatorships there are bad issues. But Iran was gaining in the modern world during the last rulers reign and they were considered a jewel in the Middle East as was Lebanon during that time. It is radical ISLAM that now drives the issue in the Middle East. Yes it is about OIL also. ever sense the British began drilling in Saudia Arabia OIL has been the issue. But now we have radical ISLAM which will re-establish the ISLAMIC Kalifate in Northern Africa across to the Phillipines. Read the radical web pages and you will see their plans shown in open daylight for all to see. I believe we (the west) can not allow radical ISLAM to gain control of huge oil reserves to fund their plans. YES its about oil!!! The west will suffer greatly if we alow them to complete their plans. Its not our immediate problem but will be our kids and grand kids problems just like we are dealing with the mistakes of our forefathers. So get off your high horse and get with the program. You don’t like WAR, then you need to come up with ways to settle this peacefully or we have no other option than to release the DOGS OF WAR and let US DOGS do our job and end it. Afterwards we can take the time to establish a more touchy/feely way of dealing with our problems.

Reply

Smitty-NamVet February 23, 2007 at 3:04 pm

The best reason for this war is one that cannot be stated publicly. By going into Iraq we have sucked AlQuida in there too. Much better we get them occupied there against armed Americans than here against unarmed Americans. The temptation was too great for them, after all the logistics and ability to blend is greater there than here.

Reply

Soonercraig February 23, 2007 at 4:01 pm

Some Comments on the ‘New’ explosive devices beginning to be used in Iraq.
The ‘shaped charge’ type of explosive was first used – as best I can remember from my Ammo classes in a previous life – in WWII with the deployment of the 3.5″ rocket (Bazooka). It allowed the Infantry to carry a weapon that stood a chance of defeating an armored vehicle. The 3.5 eventually worked it’s way into the Light Antitank rocket and the larger Tube Launched Optically Tracked Wire (TOW) guided missile system. These were US Army funded state of the art improvements that gave the Infantry a weapon that could reach father an defeat thicker armor. But there are other – less expensive – ways of constructing weapons using thIs shaped charge idea. I can remember being shown Vietcong improvised versions of this armor defeating technology where they used a large wine bottle (turn it sideways when empty and check out the shape of the base – it’s a cone) to hold the charge that would detonate when held close to a flat surface and form a jet of superheated material which would have the punch to go through light armor (M113/APC). The insurgents in Iraq aren’t doing anylthing new they are just using this idea with locally available materials and constructing weapons that are similiar to what the VC used (with local variations). These weapons sure aren’t elegant (read American contractor made: expensive/long lead time/etc.) but they are cheap and relatively easy to fabricate locally.
How do you combat this type of weapon? The locals have to be convinced that it’s to their short and long term interest not to provide the bomb makers support. Right now the locals are terrified that if they don’t support the bomb makers they and their their families will be killed as a lesson to their neighbors. If the security situation in Iraq (especially around Baghdad) ever improves to the point where if the head of the familiy calls in a ‘tip’ to the Police or Coalition Forces and doesn’t get killed for his effort then the bomb makers won’t have any safe havens to make weapons. Hopefully if this eventually occures the bomb makers will start to either be removed from the scene [killed off, leave the country, stand down...] or the ones that are still around decide that making bombs is not getting them anywhere [assuming that they are locals and have a political agenda] and there are other ways to get to where they want to go – as in work within their local, very new democratic system.

Reply

Dan Ross February 23, 2007 at 6:05 pm

Hugh Winter, shame, shame on you. You said things I never said. Who do you work for, the News media? I never said I did not love war. I love war so much I even look through the Bible to find ideas to justify war. Here is what I suggest all Radical Islamic fundamental extremists do: Joel 3:9- 10 “Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near, let them come up. Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears; let the weak say, `I am strong.’”
May Iran by the help of China bring war upon the earth so that this happens Joel 3:20 -21 ” But Judah shall abide forever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. For I will acquit them of bloodguilt, whom I had not acquitted; for the Lord dwells in Zion.”
Almost every so called Jew today in Palestine is not a Jew: Romans 9:6-7

Reply

Leroidavid February 23, 2007 at 6:13 pm

Dan Ross is obviously a nazislamist.
Disgusting and despicable.

Reply

Leroidavid February 23, 2007 at 6:14 pm

Dan Ross is obviously a nazislamist.
Disgusting and despicable.

Reply

Father of an American Soldier February 24, 2007 at 10:03 am

I can only say that I wish Dan Ross were my plowshare so I could beat him into a lump of worthless metal and discard him into the dung heap of Islamo Facism

Reply

Gideon February 24, 2007 at 6:08 pm

If Dan Ross was on fire… I wouldnt piss on him to put the fire out. Pussies like Dan are a dime a dozen.

Reply

Gideon February 24, 2007 at 6:13 pm

If Dan Ross was on fire… I wouldnt piss on him to put the fire out. Pussies like Dan are a dime a dozen.

Reply

GM Fedorchuk February 25, 2007 at 6:17 pm

Please, If you cannot express an idea using sentences, don’t write. It is almost impossible to understand your rants and ravings.
If you are a radical islamist, take up arms. I know plenty of jarheads and dog faces who would be glad to help you in your search for Allah.
If you are a wacko right winger who’s t-shirt says “kill em all and let God sort it out”, you need to try reading the Bible. Or at least read “Battle Ready” by Gen. Tony Zinni USMC (Ret). You can learn from that true professional.
If you are a left winger who believes that cutting and running from Iraq is the right thing to do, wake up and smell the coffee. We threw that country into a state of anarchy. We either fix the problems we jumped into, or we live with the cost of our failure.
As for the clown who spreads FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Deceit) and signs off as King Faud to complete the deception, well you’re a coward and beneath contempt.
I guess that I could go on for a long time with comments about the narrow minded viewpoints expressed in this blog. As long as we demand solutions that stroke our own ego, instead of reponding to the problem rationally, we will continue to screw up.
To the several rational writers, thank you.

Reply

TOM February 26, 2007 at 10:54 am

In regards to the Iraq War; there are many good reasons for leaving; but for me on sticks out larger than others. Second only to the loss of American lives for the stinking rag heads is the Bush budget. He is cutting every social program in the country while asking for more funding for the war. So basically we are paying for this crap war by way of the most venerable Americans. A president and a government should base all of their decisions on protecting the most venerable of our citizens; instead we are throwing money at an Iraq government who will eventually turn against us in the name of islam. What a pathetic foreign policy; a pathetic administration; and pathetic citizens who allow this type government to exist. You want a solution to the situation in Iraq; ask yourself

Reply

LWM February 27, 2007 at 8:31 pm

“GM FEDORCHUK: If you are a wacko right winger who’s t-shirt says “kill em all and let God sort it out”, you need to try reading the Bible. Or at least read “Battle Ready” by Gen. Tony Zinni USMC (Ret). You can learn from that true professional.
If you are a left winger who believes that cutting and running from Iraq is the right thing to do, wake up and smell the coffee. We threw that country into a state of anarchy. We either fix the problems we jumped into, or we live with the cost of our failure.”
Mr. Fedorchuk,
If you read the Bible, the OT for sure, you will get the same advice. Where the hell do you think that expression comes from?
- “Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet”.
B

Reply

Rob March 4, 2007 at 3:26 am

I think the bigger problem here is the fact that this article and the comments after basically tell anyone how to make one of these. Why not show us some diagrams? Would that make your article more complete? These things do some serious damage and have already been in use taking American lives ‘over there’. So how about cutting back on the ‘How To’ sections and maybe putting some thought into your piece!

Reply

york A March 12, 2007 at 8:07 pm

everyone comment..underneath, between lines have the same denominator…we all Americans!!! We all want the same Thing..bible, cristian,..we all know what happens if Iran get !!!Diplomacy will get…buyng time for the enemy to complete his plan…no trust…simple eliminate the threat, ..isolate them ..etc

Reply

Paublo July 1, 2007 at 11:45 am

The bottom line is what the Republican senator commented in a recent speech. Our soldiers are patroling the same streets, the same way. Being blown up by the same bombs day after day. What does that tell you about the military stratagy.

Reply

Alan D.Hoffmann August 14, 2007 at 8:11 am

If some of the weapons are being copied you may want to see if CNC manufacturing is being employed. Look for machine language programs that produce weapons components. If you could obtain records from equipment manufacturers that may have supplied high tech equipment you could locate potential weapons component sources.

Reply

al pukdup August 14, 2007 at 5:33 pm

know matter what you do ,as long their are people with the will not to be murdered ,they will find a new way to defeat the killers of their familys. if that was here and the iraqi army was going house to house making sweeps kicking in your door murdering your, wife ,mom ,son, dauter, what would you do? just let them walk over you? hell no you would fight till the last drop of your blood, and use the most terrible, horrifing, things that your mind has dreamed of doing all these years “you know what i mean” endeless ingenius devices to kill the murders of your family, you know you would, i aint gonna by no walk by.their doing the same thing. but” We Are Rite!” W.A.R their aint no easy way out..U.S. ARMY soilder proud to serve.

Reply

Leave a Comment

Previous post:

Next post: