Ive been planning to do a post on this for a while but hadnt got the chance with all the other stuff going on. But I want to draw your attention to a story that our friends over at Defense Industry Daily have updated recently.
There are few things Id rather see when the rounds are zipping by from an insurgent ambush than the slow, low swoop of an A-10 Thunderbolt II overhead. The Warthog is one of those just purely American planes that says bigger and badder is better. No frills here. Just an armored bathtub, run-flat tires and a huge gun that says hey buddy, wanna play?
Well, after years of a fighter mafia dominance that kicked the A-10 to the curb, Air Force officials finally woke up and realized all anyone cares about these days is putting warheads on foreheads, not shooting down MiGs from 10 miles away. So the blue-suiters have finally given the Hog its due and funneled some much-needed money to the workhorse CAS platform. And now theyre accelerating the Warthog renaissance.
From DID:
The Precision Engagement modification is the largest single upgrade effort ever undertaken for the USA’s unique A-10 “Warthog” close air support aircraft fleet. When complete, it will give them precision strike capability sooner than planned, combining multiple upgrade requirements into one time and money-saving program rather than executing them as standalone projects. Indeed, the USAF has accelerated the PE program by 9 months as a result of its experiences in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
The entire A-10 fleet will be modified over 4–5 years, at an estimated total contract value of $168 million. While A/OA-10 aircraft continue to outperform technology-packed rivals on the battlefield, this set of upgrades is expected to help keep the aircraft current until the fleet’s planned phase-out in 2028.
To date, A-10 fleet upgrades have been somewhat patchwork and piecemeal. This program changes all that. An April 2, 2007 GAO report places the A-10 Precision Engagement program’s total overall cost is estimated at around $420 million in an April 2, 2007 GAO report.
Lockheed Martin Systems Integration — Owego is the prime contractor and systems integrator under the direction of the A-10 program office (508th Attack Sustainment Squadron), leading a team that includes Northrop Grumman of St. Augustine, FL; BAE Systems of Johnson City, NY; and Southwest Research Institute (SWRI) of San Antonio, TX. The Air Force awarded the Precision Engagement development contract to Lockheed Martin in 2001, and as the prime contractor Lockheed is expected to deliver a total of 356 kits over 5 years, at an estimated cost of $168 million. Lockheed Martin received the production contract in February 2005, with the first production kits delivered to Hill AFB in March 2006.
While the program was originally supposed to consist of several spirals, these plans were modified in light of USAF requests and needs. The program now consists of 2 increments, with JTRS fielding left as an open item to be addressed once the JTRS AMF equipment is available.
Read more here
This is all fine and dandy, but the A-10 also needs an engine upgrade. In Afghanistan, A-10s have to hit a tanker immediately after take-off because they can’t get airborne with a full load of munitions and a full gas tank.
General Jumper attempted to address this shortfall, but the funding got sidetracked as soon as he left office.
WAAAAY overdue. Just saw a bit on the local news here in Idaho about the A-10 drivers who were involved in that blue on blue against the Brits. They JUST got a color screen, WTF? Now they are headed back to Theater with some long needed upgrades but still they could use the engine upgrade indeed.
Soapbox moment: No 30mm on the F-35. Anyone know how the payload compares? Plus just the scare the shit outta ya factor aint there on a plane a purty as the 35.
I like it. Hogs save good guy lives and put bad guys out to pasture.
Side note: Pierre Sprey, who’s credited with making the Hog the CAS workhorse it is, was a member of the original Fighter Mafia. Those influences in the 70s who designed airplanes had their ducks in a row. I’d be wary of any reincarnate Fighter Mafia if they’re trying to tuck-in a bad-ass like the A-10.
Am I the only person in the world who thinks the warthog is the prettiest thing to ever fly?
Function over Form. That plane is just so practical I cannot see why it constantly has the wrecking ball looming over its head. More need to be made, more need to be issued, and the assembly line process needs to be reconstructed. The Warthog is a 100 year plane just as the B-52 is.
white scarf routine went out some decades back.……workhorses are needed. A-10 is magnificent. Not flashy, but solid. yes, make more, more, more!
how many Warthogs can you buy instead of Raptors?
when you’re on the ground, who gives a rats’ backside what some Raptor is doing 200 miles away, neh?
Yeah, it was largely the Fighter Mafia (Sprey, one of the three founders of the Figher Mafia who were Sprey, Boyd, and Riccioni IIRC) which forced both the A10 AND the F16 down the air force department’s throat.
Is any of this investment going to be spent on better systems to prevent the sort of “friendly fire” disasters against allied troops, for which the A-10 system is now notorious in the minds of the public in the United Kingdom, Canada and elsewhere ?
Nope Galls. I love me the A-10.
Right now I’m halfway through Tom Clancy’s Fighter Wing and am very disappointed that the A-10 only gets a mention in passing.
This is great news.
Galls–
You’re not the only one. To me it has a sort of simple elegance that other jets lack. When I was at the “I want to be a fighter pilot!” stage of my youth (which I freely confess I shall never completely grow out of), the A-10 was the plane I wanted to fly.
I am not a fan of the US cooperating with other countries…I know how that sounds, but its true.
Somethings.…just need to be cancelled.
and if its international…forget about it. The JSF…is the military version of the ISS…a bunch of nations in on it…and not much will come out of it.
I’m referring to the plane that is supposed to multi-task and do all the jobs…the JSF.
The navy likes the super hornets…and can upgrade them over time, and the Air Force could buy more F-22’s and re-vamp the warthogs.
The warthogs are pure brute force…thats why we love em’. They are not stealth & cant go supersonic, But they mean business, and you can take them into battle…without worrying about if you might scratch the paint job.
I’m happy to see the A-10 getting its deserved funding.
I love the A-10.
Cheap.
Does its job very well.
Supports the infantry better than any other airplane.
I believe the A-10 is a bit off the optimum for today’s CAS. All that armour and slowness was designed because in vietnam planes had to fly low and low-tech AAA achieved good attrition.
Today, the most effective air defense of typical enemies are infrared-guided missiles. The best attack altitude is high enough to benefit by SAR/GMTI radar and IIR sensors as well as (LL)TV (you see no red cross on IR) and not 100–200 ft.
You’d need a second aviator in the plane to operate the sensors, datalinks and keep in contact with the FAC and other controllers. The pilot should focus on flying and survival.
The big gun could easily be replaced by 70mm Hydra missiles (there are even laser-guided ones available) and cheap guided bombs would be the other primary weapon.
Even modernized A-10 will lack dash speed for quick responses and the second guy. The Russians with their newer two-seat Su-25 versions are closer to the optimum imho.
All new wings too — the A-10 is also the best low level maneuvering plane around.
And we got 300+ of these now.
Grandjester — modern IR missiles have imaging sensors that produce such a quality that I was able to identify the target plane type on screenshots. They don’t need an unobstructed view on hot exhausts at all anymore.
The A-10 layout with the engines hidden by the tail was fine against SA-7 missiles, but it’s useless against more modern missiles like SA-14. The only A-10 defense against them are structural strength, armour, redundancy and flares.
A new CAS airplane designed from scratch would likely have integrated DIRCM and turbofans in a position that’s better for maintenance.
Well someone was thinking in the DOd for a change, JSF, F-22 why, since the only enemy we have fought in over the last 30 years have been third world nations with not fighter force per sa, the A-10 is the ideal weapon to do the job. I’m not for spending billions on new weapons systems which only enrich the military industrial complex and doesn’t help the guy on the ground, lets be real look at the enemy not the bucks
$168 million? You can’t even buy 2 F-22’s for that–
Do you ever get the feeling that we could have twice the military for half the cost?
One point– they diss the Fighter Mafia– but Pierre Sprey (SP?) was the program manager on the A10
Sven and you are pimping for yet another platform? Are you talking F-35? The Frogfoot was just a bad take on the YA-9, which lost to the Hog and is much more IR vulnerable. How many SA-14’s have we come up against in Iraq? Afganistan?
Shit Sandys would be great for alot of the missions we are doing today!
I just don’t see the point of spending BILLIONS on over-tech on missions that no longer exsist or weren’t really there to start with. As to the future, invest in r&d by all means, look into promising developments but use some common sense and realisitic assesments. At the end of the day it’s about putting steel on target and protecting our guys. Ask the A-10 drivers and I think you will find they love their platform.
“I just don’t see the point of spending BILLIONS on over-tech on missions that no longer exsist or weren’t really there to start with. “
Absolutely. This seems to be one of our big problems across the board in the DOD. They spend billions of dollars on ulra-high-tech crap (Land Warrior and the F-22/JSF come to mind), yet they can’t replace a POS system like the M-16/M-4 (without trying to make it look like something out of Star Trek in the case of the OICW), and won’t build new workhorses like the A-10.
It’s like they get enamoured with the shiny bells and whistles, and yet forget why they are buying the stuff in the first place.
Emas, you’re absolutely right, when you said, “Do you ever get the feeling that we could have twice the military for half the cost?” Just imagine if we stopped funding the uber-tech crap for just a couple years and just added things that we know work, in the field, in the dirt, and when Mr. Murphy come to visit.
Give me a Glock in .45, with a HK 416 and a half dozen A-10’s overhead any day of the week over the M-9, a crappy M-16 and a fast mover pretending to be CAS any day of the week. And twice on sundays.
Grandjester — I just wanted to express that the A-10 ist not optimal. I believe it’s not good if people keep telling others that the A-10 is the perfect answer.
It cannot meet some demands that will be highly relevant over the next 10 to 20 years.
I agree that upgrading it is so far the best choice — but only because the bureaucracy and companies are utterly unable to produce a new design at reasonable costs.
That’s also the problem of the JSF.
And yes, the latest Su-25 derivatives are much better than an A-10 because the Russians actually developed a two-seater CAS plane with decent sensors. A 30mm gatling can easily be substituted with some 57-80mm salvo rockets.
They weren’t able to pay for its production, though.
Sven, I respectfully disagree. The A-10 is about as close to optimal for it’s mission as you can get. No multi-role platform will even come close. JSF, Apache, Strike Eagle, Harrier none can perform this mission as well.
Which emerging threats of the next two decades will require something else? China? India? Other?
I just don’t believe any rocket salvo replaces the BFG.
IS THERE ANY PLAN TO MAKE A JUMP JET OUT OF THE A10? SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD MAKE IT EVEN BETTER.
THIS IS SOME THING I HAVE BEEN KICKING AROUND ON A COMPUTER AIR CRAFT PROGRAM.
i have always loved the warthog ‚being a grunt in vietnam could only wish to have something like that there,i think it would made all the differance in the world . Glad to hear that they are finally it giveing its do,sounds like the right decision ‚keep up the good work
After seeing some video footage of the manoeuvreabilty of the Russian Migs I am in awe I have yet to see any Western aircraft display anything close to their ability.
The A-10 is my favorite USAF aircraft too.
Why didn’t the Marine Corps. ever consider this aircraft. I think it would have been a great fit!
Long over do. The best CAS aircraft ever built. The military will get a lot of aircraft for the money.
When I arrive in Vietnam, I met another aviator walking to the squadron office. My question to him was, “what is it like out there?” He turned and replied, “ever tried to shoot up a guy running around in a rice paddy with a high performance jet?” He said you can’t fly slow enough and turn tight enough to hit the guy. We had the A-10 they never fielded it. The F-4 had the glide slope of a refrigerator and very poor maneuverability. The A-4 had no real engine so it would get hit when it came in too close and tried to accelerate to get back up to altitude.
Jump jet. What are you smoking. The thing is heavy and sturdy with a long loiter. Exactly the opisite of a harrier, you moron
Yes, the A10 is venerable air warrior over active
battlefields. Even if our tech reaches Star Trek
proportions, nothing replaces ‘boots on the
ground’. Even strategic pundits at DoD concede
this fact. So, isn’t a straight line of logic to
support the A10 as the pinnacle of USAF CAS? I
think the USMC should take over this airframe. It
would be more appreciated, since Marine air are
the folks who invented CAS to begin with.
It seems they never learn. Way back there in Korea they found out the jets couldn’t find the gooks in the rice paddys. The reactivated a lot for prop planes. As an old B-24 driverfrom WW2 I was given a B-26 which I can’t figure out why they couldn’t dig out of the bone yards and stick a few modern electronics.
They could haul a fairly good load, had a speed range from about 150 up to about 450 — a bit higher if they called you and said the heavy breathers were headed your way — We didn’t have airborne radar worth a shit. But we did have up to 18 fifty calibre guns the pilot could aim, a respectable bomb load, and several hard points om the wings to hang other goodies. They did have 37mm guns in some I heard burt never saw.
They could hang up there for maybe six hours over some of those roads in Iraq and find some of those guys laying the bombs with a few sensors.
Why do we have to use only jets any more.
When I was in the Service about 15 years ago, I was an Underwater Squid, (Navy Sub Sailor). Close Air Support, was a P-3 Orion overhead Guarding the Sub I was On… Ask the Guys and Gals who Carry Guns on the Dry Land. If they think it’s a good Idea… Give them what they want!!!!!! It’s THEIR Butt on the line.… Give them what they need to come back home in one piece.. NOT in a Box…
The A-10 has always been an underrated attack aircraft but I would like nothing else for back-up, rescue or cover if I ever needed it!
Good point Nolan about the B-25 and B-26’s with a nose full of .50’s. Thats why the A-10 is so ideal, point the schnozz, pull the trigger and goodbye charlie. Can’t do that with bombs or missiles, theres a good reason they are called “miss“iles.
Does anyone remember that the DoD had the tooling for the A-10 destroyed long ago? The manufacturer was Republic/Fairchild, I believe. There is a continually decreasing number of Warthogs available. Yes, the A-10 really should be in the Marine corps inventory.
Does anyone remember the Rockwell Turboprop P51 variant that was suggested to augment the A-10. Cheaper than the A-10 with all the hardware necessary to support the troop on the ground. I believe the AF nixed it since it was not a jet.
I was in the AF in teh early to mid 80’a and remember all the hype about the F-16 being able to replace the A-10.
I am glad to see that the A-10 was able to survice all that.
I think it would be an excellent idea to give these things to the Army. Afterall, the marines have the Harrier, so what’s the big deal? Airforce brass don’t seem to wnat it, so give it to somebody who does, and that goes for the P51 Turbo-prop as well. The Army’s already proven it can handle propellers — as in heli’s — and they did a pretty good job starting the Airforce!
As I recall the A-10 was going to go to the Army back in the early 80s; that was a key reason I became an Army aviator. I always wanted to fly the A-10. Should have followed my buddy’s lead and gone Air Force. He is (or was) an instructor pilot in the A-10 in AZ.
A10 warthog “if it an’t broken don’t fix it” just twek it.
The Harrier versus the A-10…
Easy choice actually if your a grunt, get ride of that damn Harrier and give the Corps what it needs, the A-10! Close air support is all a grunt being shot at wants or needs…
The Marine Corps should have been given the A-10 1st and foremost anyway. What does the AF know about close air support after all, AF wants to do is stay home and shoot from silows.
served for many years in the army, and for C.A.S, there is nothing like the A-10. primarily, its ability to “loiter”( to fly with a lot of flap at slow speed and just hang out a couple of ridges away) means that air supp is always just half a minute away. secondly…well…it IS just an armored flying gun that can also drop bombs,fire missles, and peel open tanks like a can opener. finally is the survivability factor(the pilot sits in a 6″ thick tub of armor), and hey, how many planes can lose one of two engines, half a tail, and 1/3rd of both wings and still make its way home to roost? it was always the best, and will remain so ( a flying gun platform that knows no fear…kinda like its big brother…you know…the spectre gunship!) i wish the A.F. would give it to the army and let them run with it.….cause we know what we need to improve our forces. upgrade the electronics and targeting.…and then LEAVE IT ALONE!!!!!.…you can’t mess with…perfection
I don’t see why the USMC & the ARMY & the AIR FORCE can’t all have the ugly buzzards…Put them back into production and spread em’ around so our troops get the CAS when they need it. The AF can still pop-a-top on tanks as well as CAS, but the main idea is to keep top cover for our troops when the need is greatest.
I have seen many aircraft come and go in my lifetime but none as wonderful or as capeable in there ability to complete a mission, i have seen these planes come back shredded but they came back with there pilots untouched no other plane since has had this capability, it’s good to see others have noticed it’s vital roll in our military.
Let
I am a full time ADA Gunner in the South African National Defence Force with the rank Sgt Major 1st class as a expert in Aircraft recognition and the A10 is the best CAS aircraft in the world, the Apache comes in second but is not in the same league. The thought that people that are not involved in combat make decisions to withdraw such a aircraft make soldiers worldwide sick. Put them on the frontline and see what there reaction would be.