A story cropped up today on a March 4 incident where the first-deployed Marine Special Operations Company allegedly shot and killed innocent Afghan civilians in reaction to a roadside bomb ambush.
The story, of course, is not new. What is, however, is the tacit admission by Army officers in Afghanistan that the Marine special operators committed a crimebefore an official investigation has been completed!
I have been covering the formation of MarSoc since 2002, when a memorandum of understanding between the Corps and SOCom planted the seed for the new commando units. I have met some of the Force Reconnaissancemen in the new MarSoc company and can vouch for their professionalism, experience and skill.
Clearly something went wrong on that bumpy road in Nangahar province, but I know from contacts within the unit that there are definitely two sides to this story. And thats what investigations are for, right?
Why, then, did Col. John Nicholson, commander of the 3rd Brigade of the 10th Mountain Division deployed to Afghanistan, say this in a statement presented to the purported victims families of the March 4 incident:
I stand before you today, deeply, deeply ashamed and terribly sorry that Americans have killed and wounded innocent Afghan people
We are filled with grief and sadness at the death of any Afghan, but the death and wounding of innocent Afghans at the hand of Americans is a stain on our honor and on the memory of the many Americans who have died defending Afghanistan and the Afghan people
This was a terrible, terrible mistake, and my nation grieves with you for your loss and suffering
We humbly and respectfully ask for your forgiveness
Sounds to me like the Army commanders in Afghanistan have already determined the results of the ongoing investigation. In fact, after rolling out that statement to reporters at the Pentagon today, Nicholson demurred when asked to provide more details of the March 4 incident, saying, you guessed it, it is still under investigation.
Nicholson said the U.S. government had made compensatory payments to the families, averaging $2,000 for the 19 dead and 50 wounded.
I understand that winning hearts and minds in Afghanistan might require a little groveling at times. But in this apology there is a tacit, if not explicit, admission of fault and the payments certainly indicate guilt.
The speed of the disclosure of the incident and the expulsion of the Marine spec ops company from Afghanistan very shortly after by Army commanders in Afghanistan seems odd as well. We surely can recall a host of incidents where the Army clammed up about the details of purported mishaps that made it look bad.
No quarter given, it seems, to the Marine Corps fledgling door-kicker unit on its first deployment as a spec ops unit.
I hope the Navy and Marine Corps dont jump to conclusions like the Army commanders seem to have done, and that they instead allow investigators to do their work and determine with clarity whos really at fault here.
The statement expressed sorrow for the death of innocent Afgganies at the hands of Americans. That is a far cry from admitting any sort of criminal guilt. The fact that innocent Afghan citizens died during that firefight does not seem to be disputed. I have not heard that there was conclusive evidence that Americans shot civilians, but if that were so it does not necessarily mean that there was anything criminal about the incident. Whether the marines exercised proper and reasonable restraint in their target selection sould be the focus of the inquiry. In a highly chaotic situation where sources of incoming fire were difficult to identify, it may well be deemed reasonable, while highly unfortunate, that the marines fired on the convoy.
The statement expressed sorrow for the death of innocent Afgganies at the hands of Americans. That is a far cry from admitting any sort of criminal guilt. The fact that innocent Afghan citizens died during that firefight does not seem to be disputed. I have not heard that there was conclusive evidence that Americans shot civilians, but if that were so it does not necessarily mean that there was anything criminal about the incident. Whether the marines exercised proper and reasonable restraint in their target selection sould be the focus of the inquiry. In a highly chaotic situation where sources of incoming fire were difficult to identify, it may well be deemed reasonable, while highly unfortunate, that the marines fired on the convoy.
Then why say he is ashamed and call it a stain upon our honor? The COL has apparently already decided guilt, might as well just skip the trial, I guess. After all, many countries get along just fine without that silly “due process” tripe.
Lt. Col. Paul Yingling was right when he spoke of failure of leadership in the General Officer Corps. This is the latest example among many of that failure. Before the carbon could be properly cleaned from the barrels of their weapons, this unit was sent out of theater, the unit leadership tainted, an apology issued and the reputation of MARSOC smeared. This was a weaponless kill of an entire Marine Corps unit and represents one of the most successful enemy actions against us since this war has begun. Chesty must be puking his guts out over this travesty of justice. Good job Christian, stay on top of this!
This is what happens when you send an immature unit into a complex enviroment. They were not ready and should have been sent out as part of a larger joint operation so the SEALs or SF could mentor them. The fact is they engaged targets for 6 miles, there is no way that there was a six mile long complex attack. All I can say is if a regular unit did this it would have been ugly.
Chris,
get real guy. if you were talking about a “regular” infantry unit then i’d say ok maybe you have a point but these are all experienced individuals. maybe you aren’t familiar with naval operations these days but the seals and force recon have been working together for years as part of the MEU concept. that bond was increased after the war on terror began and this is exactly what it appears to be…politics! unless you were there, unless you have “sand” on your boots and unless you actually have knowledge that confirms your absurd accusations, then i humbly recommend that you keep your mouth shut.
Slab, I’d think that even unavoidable, strictly legal/proper accidental killings of innocent civilians would be cause for shame.
The commandant allowed this to happen. He is ultimately resonsible and I for one am ashamed for him,
I am ashamed that our leadership sits in washington and second guesses our guys out in the field. Mistakes happen. It is tragic, but it happens. It is the price of being ready. If we end the mistakes, more soldiers will die because they won’t be able to respond quickly enough to attacks.
Do we really want to risk this?
Taking responsibility does not equal a guilty verdict. Accepting responsibility and issuing a sincere apology can go quite far, especially in Eastern cultures. It is not a sign of weakness, but of strength to admit you were wrong. And no doubt about it, this was wrong.
“Taking responsibility does not equal a guilty verdict. Accepting responsibility and issuing a sincere apology can go quite far, especially in Eastern cultures. It is not a sign of weakness, but of strength to admit you were wrong. And no doubt about it, this was wrong.“
Oh-so when did you finish your investigation?
Did you investigate the sources of the accusations?
What methods did you use?
Innocent until proven guilty-unless you’re in uniform it seems.
Max, my opener, which you quoted “Taking responsibility does not equal a guilty verdict.” would suggest I do not assume guilt on specific parties, it may well have been justified firing.
My closer “And no doubt about it, this was wrong.” comes from the apparently undisputed issue that non-combatants/civilians were killed, which I thought we all could agree is wrong and is to be avoided at all costs even if the unit was under fire from others.
–Max, my opener, which you quoted “Taking responsibility does not equal a guilty verdict.” would suggest I do not assume guilt on specific parties, it may well have been justified firing.-
NO-It would not suggest ANYTHING that you did-except maybe have an opinion on “taking responsibilty”.
“My closer “And no doubt about it, this was wrong.” comes from the apparently undisputed issue that non-combatants/civilians were killed, which I thought we all could agree is wrong and is to be avoided at all costs even if the unit was under fire from others.“
Actually-whether or not those killed were noncombatants and whether or not anyone will dispute-the findings that those killed were noncombatants-is unknown.… because we haven’t thoroughly investigated it yet.
Or have you?
Did you investigate the sources of the accusations?
What methods did you use?
This is the whole point-NOONNE HAS INVESTIGATED THIS-yet the military is making public statements about the conduct of a unit. I think Nifong joined the judge advocate’s office.….….
Well Max, I did go and read several media and military reports that are available, it’s called the Google, look into it. And there have been at least TWO investigations (the first being the AAR) already. The criminal investigation is the only one pending.
Grandjester-You said–
“Well Max, I did go and read several media and military reports that are available, it’s called the Google, look into it.“
Yeah-we all know about google.
“And there have been at least TWO investigations (the first being the AAR) already.“
An AAR is NOT AN INVESTIGATION.
“The criminal investigation is the only one pending.“
Right it hasn’t been done yet-DO YOU READ WHAT OTHER PEOPLE POST OR JUST FISK IT AND START RANTING?!?
The criminal investigation is incomplete — as I said it’s not “thoroughly investigated”.
You jumped to conclusions and continue to do so.
Taking responsibility and issuing a sincere apology is the right thing to do, only after they apologize to us for killing our innocent soldiers. If the people in that country care about resolving the war issues, then they should turn-in the insurgents or whoever is causing them harm. That way our soldiers wouldn
Yea, .…Well it seems to me that the boys are getting into the mindset.As to what is an appropriate response to being IED,ed.You tell me.Personally I would start shooting at any possible Threats in range.Safeguard the DEAD and WOUNDED,Secure a perimitter and cease fire .In that order.So whats the problem?Also I dont think its appropriate for the army to be commenting about the marines.Same club differant rules.Or have you forgotten the south pacific,50 years ago.
A classified report was made public in the Washington Examiner on Wednesday, May 23, which vindicates these Marines.
http://www.examiner.com/a-744305~Marines_who_killed_civilians_were_attacked.html
These Marines were under the command of Army Maj. General Kearney who assigned his deputy commander, Air Force Colonel Nicholson, to do the follow-up investigation.
Since March, Army Maj. General Kearney has had access to this classified report, that would have cleared these Marines, yet he allowed the press to continue to condemn them with misinformation such as:
“They were firing everywhere,” Tur Gul told the Associated Press. Gul, who was standing at the roadside and suffered gunshot wounds, said he saw more than a dozen cars hit. “They opened fire on everybody, the ones inside the vehicles and the ones on foot,” he said.
Casualty counts varied, as is often the case in such attacks. Provincial police spokesman Abdul Ghafor said 10 people were killed and about three dozen injured. The U.S. military initially reported 34 civilians killed and 24 wounded, but it later revised its death toll to eight, with 35 hurt. Los Angeles Times
The investigation, based on dozens of eyewitness interviews, found that Marines in a convoy of Humvees continued shooting at at least six locations along the road, miles beyond the site where they were ambushed by a suicide bomber in a van. They fired at stationary vehicles, passersby and others who were
It is my understanding that the Marines who were selected to comprise the MARSOC forces are simply the best available and heavily screened for this assignment. Being a former Marine I know I will probably be accused of bias but the whole thing has a bad smell about it. These folks are not a bunch of loose cannons that simply lose it when the lead starts flying and they are not a bunch of green, inexperienced ground pounders. I would hate to think that some inter-service rivalry is at the core of the Army/Air Forces admonitions regarding the incident that has yet to be fully investigated.
I will not waste my time writing a long letter with a lot of big words to make it seem more viable, the truth of the matter is simple. The Army commanders who condemded these Spec-Op Marines fell threatened by them! The unit they have been leading should be thankful for the extra firepower, yet these Army officers play pentagon politics simply because they are threatened by these Marines! The Army officer who made these initial statements is a disgrace to any American fighting man or women, you sir are a pompous, jealous, MAGGOT, keep your sewer shut you don’t even rate to say the word MARINE. P.S can not help it you are not Spec.Forces, you have already shown you don’t have what it takes with your attacks on the Marine Corps,people like you get people killed in combat, to hell with the mission, You want you some medals.You, Sir are a joke & a lot of military people see it!!!!!
I will not waste my time writing a long letter with a lot of big words to make it seem more viable, the truth of the matter is simple. The Army commanders who condemded these Spec-Op Marines fell threatened by them! The unit they have been leading should be thankful for the extra firepower, yet these Army officers play pentagon politics simply because they are threatened by these Marines! The Army officer who made these initial statements is a disgrace to any American fighting man or women, you sir are a pompous, jealous, MAGGOT, keep your sewer shut you don’t even rate to say the word MARINE. P.S can not help it you are not Spec.Forces, you have already shown you don’t have what it takes with your attacks on the Marine Corps.People like you get people killed in combat, to hell with the mission, You want you some medals.You, Sir are a joke & a lot of military people see it!!!!!
This officer is simply jealous of the new Marine Spec-Ops! That simple!
An update:
At a court of inquiry, held Jan. ’08 Nicholson acknowledged that the number of dead had not been established and that U.S. Troops who arrived on the scene 30 minutes after the bombing found no dead or wounded Afghans.
The court concluded the Marines acted appropriately and recommended every Marine in the convoy be awarded the Combat Action Ribbon and a sergeant injured during the blast receive the Purple Heart.
There was never any evidence other than the word of the Afghans that any civilians were killed. No bodies were recovered; there were no autopsies, no forensic evidence.
The various lists of injured and dead civilians cannot be verified by any source. The Army did not check the solatia list, instead, accepted the list from the Nangahar governor. Afghan testimony contained numerous instances of fraud. Tribal elders told some citizens to say they were injured to receive money.
It is the leadership of Army Col. ( Now Gen. )John Nicholson and Lt. Gen. Frank Kearney, falsely accusing their own soldiers, that should be investigated.
An update:
At a court of inquiry, held Jan. ’08 Nicholson acknowledged that the number of dead had not been established and that U.S. Troops who arrived on the scene 30 minutes after the bombing found no dead or wounded Afghans.
The court concluded the Marines acted appropriately and recommended every Marine in the convoy be awarded the Combat Action Ribbon and a sergeant injured during the blast receive the Purple Heart.
There was never any evidence other than the word of the Afghans that any civilians were killed. No bodies were recovered; there were no autopsies, no forensic evidence.
The various lists of injured and dead civilians cannot be verified by any source. The Army did not check the solatia list, instead, accepted the list from the Nangahar governor. Afghan testimony contained numerous instances of fraud. Tribal elders told some citizens to say they were injured to receive money.
It is the leadership of Army Col. ( Now Gen. )John Nicholson and Lt. Gen. Frank Kearney, falsely accusing their own soldiers, that should be investigated.