Comments on: The COIN Aircraft Comeback http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/ The Future of the Military, Law Enforcement and National Security Fri, 25 May 2012 17:15:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kent http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-225316 Kent Tue, 15 Mar 2011 10:23:59 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-225316 1. COIN aircraft should be easy to fly, easy to maintain, maneuverable, relatively inexpensive, have long loiter time, and can carry enough armament to suppress insurgents. The AT-6B and EMB-314 (both equipped with 1,600 hp flat-rated PT-6) meet those requirements. 2. COIN aircraft will NOT be facing high-performance aircraft, so you don't need a 5,000 hp turboprop monster. 3. COIN aircraft will be move faster, operate less expensively, and loiter longer than attack helicopters. 4. Putting old tech solutions like the A-1 Skyraider or PA-48 Enforcer into production would cost more than necessary and provide much more capability than is needed to the detriment of simplicity. 5. Currently the Iraqi Air Force is operating several Cessna AT-208B Combat Caravan aircraft armed with 2 Hellfire missiles. They have requested 36 AT-6B's because they are currently operating the T-6A as a trainer. This would get trained pilots into aircraft with which they are already familiar with more capable systems. 6. The USAF has a poor institutional history of supporting COIN/CAS concepts. They shed the very capable A-37B Dragonfly as soon as they could and weren't real happy about the A-10, either. Nothing will do for the "zipper-suited thunder god" types but real "gee-whiz!" jet fighters. 1. COIN aircraft should be easy to fly, easy to maintain, maneuverable, relatively inexpensive, have long loiter time, and can carry enough armament to suppress insurgents. The AT-6B and EMB-314 (both equipped with 1,600 hp flat-rated PT-6) meet those requirements.

2. COIN aircraft will NOT be facing high-performance aircraft, so you don’t need a 5,000 hp turboprop monster.

3. COIN aircraft will be move faster, operate less expensively, and loiter longer than attack helicopters.

4. Putting old tech solutions like the A-1 Skyraider or PA-48 Enforcer into production would cost more than necessary and provide much more capability than is needed to the detriment of simplicity.

5. Currently the Iraqi Air Force is operating several Cessna AT-208B Combat Caravan aircraft armed with 2 Hellfire missiles. They have requested 36 AT-6B’s because they are currently operating the T-6A as a trainer. This would get trained pilots into aircraft with which they are already familiar with more capable systems.

6. The USAF has a poor institutional history of supporting COIN/CAS concepts. They shed the very capable A-37B Dragonfly as soon as they could and weren’t real happy about the A-10, either. Nothing will do for the “zipper-suited thunder god” types but real “gee-whiz!” jet fighters.

]]> By: troy http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-222934 troy Thu, 27 Jan 2011 05:51:30 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-222934 guess what combat helicopter gets/got the most use in afgan/Irac ? The Kiowa Warrior! And guess what, it is derived from the bell 206 (not a combat heli) and the weapon it uses most often is the .50 cal. It also only has a top speed of 149mph (129kts) The job that the Kiowa warrior is doing is what the coin aircraft is supposed to do. I'm sure a lot of you want something cool but this is about doing a job good/simple/cheep. guess what combat helicopter gets/got the most use in afgan/Irac ? The Kiowa Warrior! And guess what, it is derived from the bell 206 (not a combat heli) and the weapon it uses most often is the .50 cal. It also only has a top speed of 149mph (129kts) The job that the Kiowa warrior is doing is what the coin aircraft is supposed to do. I’m sure a lot of you want something cool but this is about doing a job good/simple/cheep.

]]> By: David http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160788 David Wed, 07 Oct 2009 00:52:01 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160788 The new small diameter bombs and laser guided 2.75 inch rocket should work quite well with these airframes along with say six wing mounted 7.62 MGs and selection of heavy gun pods and larger ordinance. The new small diameter bombs and laser guided 2.75 inch rocket should work quite well with these airframes along with say six wing mounted 7.62 MGs and selection of heavy gun pods and larger ordinance.

]]> By: Adrian Wainer http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160785 Adrian Wainer Mon, 18 May 2009 19:38:41 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160785 Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114 Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

]]> By: Adrian Wainer http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160784 Adrian Wainer Mon, 18 May 2009 19:36:31 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160784 Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114 Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

]]> By: Adrian Wainer http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160783 Adrian Wainer Mon, 18 May 2009 19:34:36 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160783 Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114 Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

]]> By: Adrian Wainer http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160782 Adrian Wainer Mon, 18 May 2009 19:32:22 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160782 Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114 Best and Warm Regards Adrian Wainer Post 9/11 to fight this new type of War, America should have put the A2D Skyshark in to production.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3989735293839101114
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

]]> By: F. Stilwell http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-29243 F. Stilwell Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:51:04 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-29243 I am looking for the drawings for the PA-48 Enforcer aircraft. I want to build one with a modern turbo prop engine and can not locate the drawings. Reward for information leading to a set of drawings. I am looking for the drawings for the PA-48 Enforcer aircraft. I want to build one with a modern turbo prop engine and can not locate the drawings. Reward for information leading to a set of drawings.

]]> By: stephen russell http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160779 stephen russell Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:07:40 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160779 But arm those COIN planes with: EW array More rocket pods MiniGun Pod. Missile pods. 40mm cannon pod. Napalm Armor plating Strong engine. 2, 3 man crew. Use for FAC??? Test use in Colombia Jungles, Peru, So Mexico??? Carrier launched??? STOL VSTOL Hybrid type planes. C123 reuse COIN gunship??? Reuse the T37?? T38??? T45? Russian prop trainer plane, 1978 era, 1989 era. Sweet. But arm those COIN planes with:
EW array
More rocket pods
MiniGun Pod.
Missile pods.
40mm cannon pod.
Napalm
Armor plating
Strong engine.
2, 3 man crew.
Use for FAC???
Test use in Colombia Jungles, Peru,
So Mexico???
Carrier launched???
STOL
VSTOL
Hybrid type planes.
C123 reuse COIN gunship???
Reuse the T37??
T38???
T45?
Russian prop trainer plane, 1978 era, 1989 era.
Sweet.

]]> By: Issa http://defensetech.org/2007/05/08/the-coin-aircraft-comeback/#comment-160778 Issa Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:25:23 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2502#comment-160778 The current crop of COIN aircraft are too slow. All of them need to be capable of approaching the Sound Barrier in a Dive safely and exceeding 500mph in level flight. Most of current crop look like cheap upgrades of private light aircraft and not using the latest materials. Except for the tub around the pilot. The PA48 Enforcer is a proven model to work from. Think the new T-6 is a promising but compromised 2nd design. These COIN AC need to add full moving surfaces to provide instantaneous maneuverability. Build a 10k#, 6000 shaft HP Turbo Prop planne with Contra Rotating Propeller with the latest in movable configuration. The Russian TurboProp Bears Top Speed Cruise is 575mph. SO it should be doeable. These TurboProp COIN aircraft will be encountering all kinds of Combat Jets. They need to be competitive facing for example an East European L39 type light attack jets or an A10 or Russian Frog. Which would be hard pressed in a Dog Fight. Even a Mig, F16 or F22 would have to be careful in close combat. Against a properly configured TurboProp with enough HP, Cannon and Rockets will turn the tide. The current crop of COIN aircraft are too slow. All of them need to be capable of approaching the Sound Barrier in a Dive safely and exceeding 500mph in level flight.
Most of current crop look like cheap upgrades of private light aircraft and not using the latest materials. Except for the tub around the pilot.
The PA48 Enforcer is a proven model to work from. Think the new T-6 is a promising but compromised 2nd design.
These COIN AC need to add full moving surfaces to provide instantaneous maneuverability. Build a 10k#, 6000 shaft HP Turbo Prop planne with Contra Rotating Propeller with the latest in movable configuration.
The Russian TurboProp Bears Top Speed Cruise is 575mph. SO it should be doeable.
These TurboProp COIN aircraft will be encountering all kinds of Combat Jets. They need to be competitive facing for example an East European L39 type light attack jets or an A10 or Russian Frog. Which would be hard pressed in a Dog Fight.
Even a Mig, F16 or F22 would have to be careful in close combat. Against a properly configured TurboProp with enough HP, Cannon and Rockets will turn the tide.

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