Comments on: Dragon Skin Debate Heats Up

By: Leatherneck

Leatherneck — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 03:36:45 +0000

Probably the best beating ever given on this forum Devil Dog. Allan Bain is a fag. Keep up the good work. KILL’EM ALL/ LET GOD SORT’EM OUT. SEMPER FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By: Devil dog

Devil dog — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:54:03 +0000

Allan Bain is a closeted fagget.
For confirmation of this e-mail him at.
http://www.evolutionarmor.com/index.html

By: Devil dog

Devil dog — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:53:16 +0000

Allan Bain is a closeted fagget.
For confirmation of this e-mail him at.
http://www.evolutionarmor.com/index.html

By: William

William — Wed, 30 May 2007 16:56:15 +0000

Maybe it was another of Murray the Circus Tent Ringleader’s “entertainment value” videos. Velocities up to 5000 feet per second come off of artillery shells, the do slow very quickly with distance due to atmospheric drag, but most test velocities are double to triple what Pinnacle used in their “Entertainment video”. Just look up the M69 Training grenade vs the M67 Fragmentation grenade and you will see that their use of stunt coordinators and other Hollywood tricks, are just part of their smoke and mirrors marketing campaign.

By: Allan D. Bain

Allan D. Bain — Tue, 29 May 2007 05:04:21 +0000

Yea and while everyone is at the Pinnacle Armor web site checking their testing side shows out, check out the one titled history channel test labs in the bottom left corner. They hired a movie stunt fabricator to make a fragmentation launching device supposedly to mimic IED’s in Iraq. They fashioned sharp pointed parts and launched then at about 900 Ft/Sec at a Dragon Skin vest from an home made air cannon, and actually stated that Pinnacle didn’t know what would happen. My God what a joke. Talk to Steven Cornelius at http://www.Tallcoat.com and get the real information on the IED’s that our troops are facing in Iraq. He’s an Retired Army Ranger; Anyone who doesn’t know what large fragments fired at a mere 900 Ft/SEc will do to a level 3 plate or flexible insert should probably not call themselves a ballistic expert. Unbelievable! Maybe he didn’t say that, but really what kind of a test is that.

By: patriot

patriot — Mon, 28 May 2007 15:52:09 +0000

Check out Pinnacle’s level 5 body armor!

this is no joke, check it out

By: William

William — Wed, 23 May 2007 04:20:58 +0000

David, I think Pinnacle has discredited Dragon Skin better than anyone on a forum could.

By: Allan Bain

Allan Bain — Tue, 22 May 2007 06:16:21 +0000

Dear Patriot,
That was a very nice explaination of force and impact. Here are a few additional points to consider:
1) All the tiles sit at an angle when flat or when wrapped around the body as they are overlapped by adjoining tiles. It’s called an imbricated pattern or better known as scalar armor. These tiles open a bit as they flex around the body by the tiles pivoting off each other to make the curve.
2) The tiles are true discuses, where the center is the thickest part, and they have a uniform downward slope of radius co-extensive with a radius or a segment. This is an Independant claim. All other claims are basic public domain concepts dependant upon the first claim. That is they have all entered the market well before the Dragon Skin patents.
3) The weakest point here is the point between successor tiles offset from the center, whereby you angle the test barrel receiver so that you get a perpendicular shot on the thinnest spot not supported by an overlapping disk. This is the definition of your perpendicular impact discussion.
4) Currently the armor is not tested this way in respect to the NIJ protocol or in the German lab that recently conducted side by side testing for the NBC Dateline news show. It is tested flat.
5) For scalar armor to be tested correctly it MUST be set around a fixed target around a test fixture designed to mimick the true wearing of the vest, and then impacted as set forth above so that the weakest point is attacked in a true 90 degree angle and also attacked at an angle to try and take advantage of the slight opening of the tiles as they make the bend around the body.
6) From what I gather the army did this, and the German laboratory didn’t, as well as any other testing entity that has reported results on Dragon Skin.
While interceptor plates certainly possess less repeat capability as shown at the German laboratory in what appeared to be true independant testing; remember the uniform thick plannular plates represented by the Interceptor system doesn’t change it’s poition at all while wearing, but the scalar armor does, and that’s why the NIJ has devised a different test for scalar armor. The military has simply taken it two step further; true wearing placement while testing, and extreme environmental conditioning testing. I remember very clearly giving armor to the military to train with, the boys play rough! The armor comes back looking like crap in a short period of time unless it’s built tough.
The envoronmental testing is designed to accelerate the aging process. In service life testing and maintenance has become quite common with military body armor world wide.
Regards,
Al

By: Slab

Slab — Mon, 21 May 2007 23:32:42 +0000

irtusk, the men who tested Dragon Skin for the Army were employed by the Army, not a competitor. This is just another example of the mind-boggling amount of misinformation bouncing around the internet regarding Dragon Skin. But we certainly can’t trust the Army to test and procure reliable equipment for the Soldiers, now can we? No, of course not, if Big Army weren’t out to deliberately send Soldiers into harm’s way with inadequate equipment, SFTT wouldn’t have anything to scream about.
Is my frustration with the general ignorance surrounding DS starting to creep into my posting? My bad.

By: David Hambling

David Hambling — Mon, 21 May 2007 12:36:30 +0000

The only ‘major problems’ I can see in that thread is that someone is trying very, very hard to discredit DragonSkin.
Independent testing will get the facts. The rest is hot air.