Comments on: Dragon Skin vs. Army

By: Rob Weekes

Rob Weekes — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:01:48 +0000

To Allan Bain or Murray Neal, how about sewing each ceramic disc in its own little pouch? The fabric would wrap fairly tightly around the disc to prevent the disc from shifting too much in the pouch. This operation can be automated or put into high production with the help of semi-skilled labor, much easier than wrapping the leather cover around a baseball. (For example, take a square piece of cloth, put a disc on top in the middle, then fold each corner over the disc. Then apply 2 simple straight stitches across the face of the wrapped disc in a criss-cross to secure it firmly in the cloth).
After sewing each plate into a cloth pouch, each plate would then be stitched to the proper position on the armor vest with a button-style knot. They would be stitched on the inside vest layer to prevent bullets from breaking the thread.
The vest could further be modified to allow the soldier to inspect the plates directly by unzipping the outer or inner layer, thereby exposing the discs from either side. The soldier could verify that all discs are securely in place or re-stitch a pouch if needed. This would also allow efficient, modular vest repair should one of the discs crack under enemy fire.
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A REALLY quick fix is to reverse the sequence in which the discs are laid out during production. The current configuration shows that the discs are laid out from top to bottom, with the top section of each disc exposed. If you laid out the discs from bottom to top, the bottom of each disc would stick out into the yellow shrinkwrap layer and would thus be supported if the adhesive failed.
Though unlikely, plates could fall if the armor is held upside down, so its not as good as sewing each plate in its own pouch. However, it would probably pass the army test unless the gas/high temperature dissolved the shrinkwrap layer. Ironic how Pinnacle had a 50/50 chance of arranging the discs from bottom to top, but they chose the wrong one

By: Crif

Crif — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:54:51 +0000

Well regardless on whether it works or dosent, would it suprise anyone that the army may be discriminating based upon mass multibillion $$$ contract it has with the current supplier of armor? This could be very well a smear campaign not telling the whole truth. A family member of mine is in the marines and they told the troops dragonskin dosent cut it. But i think what both sides need is a reputable 3rd party tester who is impartial. politics is always in the way and do we ever get the real truth anymore? The military dosent want to look bad one, and i bet the current supplier wouldnt be too happy to loose their contract with the government. Good ol’ greed can always hide the reality of something, especially here in the USA or worldwide.

By: kevin

kevin — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:33:04 +0000

but until that happens all we can do is hope that the armor we have is either made better…or we just keep up the good fight. the tests done were either good or botched..regardless, dragon skin is good..really good and im sure soldiers out there getting shot at every day really dont care what is is protecting them as long as its the best..weather thats dragon skin or the iba.

By: kevin

kevin — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:27:04 +0000

they said that the glue used to hold the scales together melts under certain conditions. well then use a different glue and give our soldiers what they deserve!! the army just wants to make money even if that means loosing a few “expendables” along the way whitch is bull. im all for dragon skin..im joining really soon and i hope that by the time i do the dragon skin will be issued to EVERYONE!

By: wil

wil — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 10:07:06 +0000

What do the Israeli’s use for personal body armor? Maybe we should take a look at that, as well as buying some Merkava tanks to use for APCs. They don’t BS over there! And I am not taking sides!

By: Wil

Wil — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:48:13 +0000

What the hell shoots the 7.62 x 63mm??? The AK-47 fires the 7.62x39mm, the Dragonov fires the legacy 7.62x54mm same as the Mosin-Naget Rifle (which I owne two of), the AK-74 fires 5.45x39ish and the Spatsnaz say they have a sniper round able to defeat any armor in the world? Is this the 7.62x63mm stuff? Russian and Eastern Bloc/Warsaw Pact made (1946′-90′) rounds tend to hit with larger rounds rather than high velocity, that was the way of the west, of Gene Stoner to go with high Velocity, 5.56x45mm at 3,000 fps with a 55-grain slug out of the AR-15, now our guys want 77-grain 5.56x45 at a mere 2,750 FPS to knock people down cold, or the FN-SCAR in good old 7.62x51mm NATO. The new FN-USA round 5.7x29mm is the new high velocity, high campacity pistol round made to get rid of the 9x19 Para/Luger. Time will tell on that… The SCAR MK17 with a MK13 under is a very tempting weapon, but I want more than a 20 round mag (reminds me of the FN-FAL), hell the Steyr AUG in 5.56/NATO comes in 42 round mags, gimme a 30 round mag in 7.62/NATO for my SCAR MK17/MK13 and a Carl Gustov and I am fine!

By: JAR

JAR — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:14:40 +0000

Ok, here is the thing about this. There has been over 15 independant test on Dragon Skin. Pinnacle did there own test to army standards and the armor past with flying colors. One test they fired almost 300 rounds at it. This after keeping it at 160 F and then –20 F and subbmersing it in salt water for 1 hour. None of the 300 rounds which include 60 of the AP 7.62x39mm rounds, 10 AP .308 rounds, and various 9mm and .45APC. Nothing punched through it. So i dont know what the Army did, but get this, the Army has a huge contract with Point Blank Armor, the manufacturer of ther OVT vest that I have worn in Iraq. I have also worn the Dragon Skin armor and i have to say, DS is alot bettter and more manuvurable than the OVT. It feels a heck of alot lighter than the OVT even though it weighs slightly more. The coverage in DS is more the 80% more that the OVT. Also, DS is fully customisable with more than 15 coverage options. So i dont mean to diss the Amry in this because I am in the Army, But the Army may have tampered with it before shooting it. And i agree to let the marines get a hold of the, then we would know for sure. It is also a great fact that most generals for the British and Iraq armies wear the Dragon Skin armor. Blackwater and Armor group also have worn the armor in Iraq and have had good success with DS. I will take the info from the 15 indepenent tests over the Army’s anyday.
As for the NIJ cert. issue. The CEO of Pinnacle had verbal autherisation to label them as III+ certified. But after the Army testing the NIJ reciended it. Now there is a huge legal battle between the two. The fact is DS is a far better vest than the OVT. If you have watched Future Weopons, Mail Call, and the History Channel’s Test Lab, the armor did awsome. So there are the facts that i know of.

By: WhipLash

WhipLash — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:49:38 +0000

I don’t know where you get information from but Dragonskin is level III NIJ certified. Now as to whether they will get their others vests certified is the question. You are way behind on this subject John Prell. Either you are ill– informed or, just hate Dragonskin for it’s shitty way of doing business like me, so I’ll leave you to take your pick. Semper Fi Till’ I die.

By: Jon Prell

Jon Prell — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:46:35 +0000

DRAGON SKIN IS NOT NIJ Certified, NIJ has issued statements stating that they have not certified Dragon Skin. Pinnacle is currently working to get the official certification, but they have not accomplished this as of yet.
This fact alone discredits Pinnacle body armor and their Dragon Skin. Why would they make false claims? Thus far, out of all the test we’ve seen Dragon Skin go through, it has all be done by Pinnacle, even the television shows and NBC. They tell them what to do, where to shoot, etc.
I know the Army can be stingy sometimes, but the Interceptor, and the new improved one their issuing now, WORK. So far, Dragon Skin may take more punishment, and may offer better protection, but the fact that it cannot stand up to battlefield standards simply means it will only give us a disadvantage.
I already dont trust Pinnacle, because they have been discredited, and all they do is point the finger and blame everyone else for Dragon Skin failures.

By: JT P

JT P — Thu, 07 Jun 2007 16:46:07 +0000