Comments on: Walling Out the Bad Guys

By: Travis

Travis — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:54:45 +0000

Grandjester,
I have been away from this board for a bit now, but let me address your comments.
HAHAHAHA
You have proven my arguments for me.…CHECK YOUR FACTS.…estimated 378 deaths during Gulf 1—–total, estimated 8–10,000 deaths the first year of Vietnam. Image blown.…tell that to immigration. Thank you for fully supporting the CNN-fed authority reference.

By: Grandjester

Grandjester — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:19:37 +0000

Travis,
I think you are playing a little loose with your “facts”:
#1 So you are not counting Gulf I or Vietnam?
#2 Debatable, Zarquawi has publicly stated he wants us to remain.
#3 Recent polling (while possibly inaccurate due to the situation) indicates they want us gone.
#4 They may think that but it doesn’t make it so. Dix and JFK guys are jerk-offs, no direct connection to Iraq or AQ and no actual capability to pull off what they were spouting off about.
#5 We cannot afford to win at this price apparently, what additional cost would what you call “losing” entail? Our image is blown, worldwide, we have little ability to influence our remaining freinds or intimidate our enemies.

By: HERD

HERD — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:56:09 +0000

test comment

By: HERD

HERD — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 00:54:42 +0000

Concur.

By: Wblasing

Wblasing — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:34:07 +0000

WE HAVE REAPED THE RESULTS OF RUMSFELD AND HIS TEAM NOT LISTENING TO JOINT CHEIFS OR COLIN POWELL ABOUT HAVING A EXIT STRATEGY. WALLS ARE NOT THE ANSWER. TAKE ALL THE MOTOR VEHICLES OUT OF BAGHDAD AND MAKE THEM WALK. MAKE THEM FEEL OUR PAIN.

By: Grandjester

Grandjester — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:01:21 +0000

Travis, I am aware of Gore and Kerry's records, including Kerry's post Vietnam comments/actions. You have set a rather impossible standard with: "Still, those "Patriots" who have served, those of unbiased military opinion, those who have the sense to consult miltary officials and not just spout off at the mouth, and those who have not since serving disgraced their own service should be listened to." Since it requires an immense level of subjectivity on your part as to what exactly is "unbiased" (no such thing imho), Murtha regularly consults current officials but undoubtedly spouts off at the mouth and I would guess that your idea of "disgraced service" would be somewhat different than mine. Where does that leave us? I don't know. If only a handful of people may comment, wtf are we all doing here? Dissent and discussion is the American way, even "popular" wars have their detractors, hell at least a third of the Colonials wanted to remain British. Here in the USA anyone can speak their mind right or left, idiot or genius, right or wrong.

By: Robert

Robert — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:50:57 +0000

this is much like viet nam vc hit run a no win situation but God keep your hand on our troops

By: stloufem

stloufem — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 05:49:06 +0000

For anyone who has actually been to the cities in Iraq, knowledge that the homes in them are usually confined behind high walls anyway is common. They consider them a 'privacy fence' of sorts, however, they make a nice place for terrorists to hide as well. The idea isn't new, if you build a wall around your property, those who you don't want within it will more than likely want to find out what your hiding in there. While those 'safe' behind the walls feel trapped and imprisoned. Walls aside, how many people actually understand the Bedouin mentality and education of the Arabic cultures that habitate Iraq? This is more than religion to them, it's being part of a tribe. Their culture has been around for thousands of years, perpetuated by familial leaders to this day. An Imam isn't just a religios figure, he's your brother or father or cousin, a teacher, your neighbor, your santuary and safety. He's usually related to the majroity of his 'flock' by blood in some way, through marriage or other means of kinship. His power and influence over the members of his clan - and his protection of them - is in the heart of the situation. You are always right if you are backed by your 'tribe.' So, what we westerners fail to see, is just a prevalent amongst us - you stand up for your family even when you don't agree with them. How are they that much different than 'us'? Entire families are destroyed, all blood ties connected, and wiped from the face of the planet. A community which has survived for thousands of years with their familial ties so strong, being completely eradicated, gives rise to more terror -and revenge - than any wall could or can. When you are frightend or angry, you either fight or run. The pride of these people will not allow them to run, and their religious leaders feed the fires with dogma and other 'dog' stuff, so they fight to survive - and for their individual culture's survival as well. We'd like to think it is all about the religious aspect of the infighting. It isn't, and when someone in power finally realizes that, then perhaps we can find a way for there to be peace. Fortunately, we Americans have spread our seed with such amazing overlapping religious beliefs that this kind of 'clan' mentality exists only in remote parts of this country. That said, there are those 'religious fanatics' in this country as well, who would as soon see the walls mushroom in the inner-cities across the land. Our Forefathers knew that mixing religion and politics was a bad idea, that is the root of our constitution and the original argument between England and her colonies. Unfortunately, we've put so many narcissistic men in places of extreme power that they've all but destroyed the Constitution with their amendments, put the individual states into the role of subservient cows and The People have allowed - and assisted - them in doing so. Let them put up the walls, if for no other gain than some kind of protection for our troops against the IED's, rockets, VBIDS and the cell phones used to trigger them. If done correctly, perhaps the Iraqi people will decide that they like the look of LA's suburbs and plant shrubs instead of bombs. When a 'cluster' of 'bad guys' is found in one of those walled communities, well, that makes it easier for strategic air strikes with limited collateral damage. Hindsight will give us all clear vision. What lurks beyond the smoke from explosives could be your friend or your enemy. If he's on the wrong side of the wall - he's fair game. Build the walls and Change the ROE for our ground troops, there may be more 'collateral damage' but, things will get safer a lot faster - for everyone.

By: John

John — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 04:01:56 +0000

Joe,
Unfortunately, your theory would fail in a most miserable way. The collateral damage is what we are trying to avoid as much as possible. It is the insurgents who want it. The unnecessary damage to buildings and civilians helps to discredit the United States and the current Iraqi government. We are fighting a guerrilla war. Its like using a scalpel against someone with a 40 pound sledge hammer. Mao Tse Tung once said, “Guerrillas never win wars but their enemies often lose them.” This was proven in Viet Nam. This time we are fighting the war in a different method. No longer using conventional warfare against unconventional foes. It will take a long time. It will be bloody. American sons and daughters will die. But we have a social responsibility to remain until we have re stabilized (if you call Saddam stable) the country of Iraq. Whether the decision to stay is unpopular or not it is the right one. A stable Iraq government will also provide some stability to the region. The United States will not stop coming under attack by terrorists. We are the most powerful nation on earth and definately the most visible in international politics. That makes us a target. Everyone needs to get used to a constant state of readiness and, sadly, a steady stream of wounded until someone comes up with a completely remote controlled robot that can replace the US Infantry or Marine.

By: Houston D.Wedlock

Houston D.Wedlock — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 03:25:12 +0000

I wonder how namy people in The United States have served their country and how many understand what war is all about.I served 20 long years and dam proud of it. But I would not serve under of the DAM democratics baster and the reason we pulled out Veitnam. Just look what Jimmy Carter done when he let IRAN take our poeple in 1979.