Comments on: Update: The Iranian Connection

By: Jazz

Jazz — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 16:13:44 +0000

Hatred is not a SEED. It is NO LONGER a seed, because it grew into a TREE one day, and is now a frigging FOREST! The Middle East has been a hotbed of hatred for so long, that it has eaten, consumed, and passed it through their bowels — fertilized the soils of their nation with it — and internalized their religious, political, and personal dogmas with it — HATRED. The religious side alone has festered for over 2,000 years, and now us Westerners have come over, jumped in the middle of the “hate train” like we have ownership and understanding of the dispute. NOW, we are the target of hate — so much so, that the posture of Iraq and Iran being mortal enemies has change to an alignment of two brothers fighting against one sworn enemy. We need to wake up, back up, wise up, and move the Frick out of this dispute — letting them resolve those issues. Then when the vast desert of smoke clears, sit down, talk, and otherwise negotiate with men that have a more solvent perspective about life, war, and their religious and political preferences — with a settled mind to looking forward. What we’re doing now makes no sense to any of the intelligent species on this planet. And if you take away the political aspirations and affiliations of our best political pundits and political geniuses, it is just a tool for discussing a host of associated ills — more important that the central discussion…AND~~
It makes even less sense to members of the smartest, best trained, and most dedicated military in the world. I keep hearing the troops on the ground saying “Bullshit” to most of these situations… I believe the correct term for this is “BUSH-SHIT”…
Yeah, I said it…
Jazz

By: Sven Ortmann

Sven Ortmann — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:22:34 +0000

You’re confused.
Mining the Persian Gulf is an act of war, not terrorism.
If that was terrorism, the US assaults on lybian force in the Gulf of Syrte would be terrorism, too. By the way; do you remember what the US Navy did in WW2 against japanese shipping? The larget naval mining campaign ever. Were they terrorists?
Not to forget airstrikes on Lybia, a civilian goods factory in Sudan and a lot of other dubious actions as well. The USA and its citizens should be the last to draw the line between terrorism and no terrorism so far away from the core of terrorism.
It’s no terrorism if you try to strangle the economy of your enemy.
It’s terrorism if you commit acts of unjustified violence to instill fear to achieve a purpose without waging a regular war.
However, positions should be clarified so far and the other readers should have a firm opinion on who’s an idiot and who’s not.
I bet they’re divided.

By: Richard Hutton

Richard Hutton — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:21:45 +0000

Hey, people–gotta book for you to read. BECAUSE THEY HATE by Brigitte Gabriel. Read this and your illusions about peaceful Islam will vanish, as will any notions that we in the west can sit down and negotiate with these people. Brigitte is a Lebonese-American who went through the 1970’s to 1980’s Lebonese Civil War; is a highly respected journalist and former major TV news anchor. Check out her web site: americancongressfortruth.org. Well worth your time.

By: Grandjester

Grandjester — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:08:24 +0000

Guys, don’t waste your posts on Max. All he does is come in and throw around the same circular arguments, regardless of the topic. He is in his own personal shame spiral cause he knows what he is shoveling is bullshit. Pity him, do not poke at him thru the bars.

By: Sven Ortmann

Sven Ortmann — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:17:36 +0000

OMG. You really believe that the USA are so important in the world that the French base their election decision on whether a candidate dislikes US policy strongly or not? Unbelievably big-headed.
The Germans elected a female chancellor despite she was pro-Iraq war. About 90% of the Germans are contra-Iraq-war, yet they still elected her party enough to make her chancellor.
Imagine; the USA are really, really unimportant to other people in comparison to their domestic interests.
What a challenging idea, isn’t it?
I won’t provide links. Links don’t convince anyone, as long as the other side throws other links in the discussion. Furthermore, I’m too lazy to search for even a minor fraction of what links I could provide if I wasn’t.

By: max

max — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:07:04 +0000

ME you said,
“Pull out of the cities and re-deploy to the border areas.
Let them fight it out (because they’re going to anyway — whether it’s one year or ten years from now.) “
I don’t know if I agree-I think we need to be downtown a bit-definately seal the borders though.
Check out the reports from Amariyah lately-I was there on Screaming Lady Road in 2004 and 2005 quite a bit-South of Cardinals-it appears we are growing a Sunni-Shiite coalition. Will it hold-who knows.

By: Max

Max — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 18:02:56 +0000

Sven, you said–
“You misunderstand defense with offense.
Europe doesn’t waste its ressources on huge offensive capabilities to enable itself to have such blunders like Vietnam and Iraq. That’s why Europe hasn’t got a balance deficit of the same size as its “defense” spending.“
No Sven, Europe doesn’t waste it’s money on defense spending-It wastes AMERICA’s or rather we waste ours to defend fools in Europe. Don’t worry the USA is bloating up with social spending my friend-eventually Europe will be forced to defend itself. Noone need to invade Europe to impose their will on it anymore either.
Sven you said,
“But there’s certainly no power on earth that could successfully invade Europe against the power of Europe. The USA are utterly incapable, the Chinese would even be incapable if they were neighbours and the Russians are no match either.“
Actually Sven, the Middle East and North Africa are slowly invading Europe rather well. Try to park a nice car outside Paris this summer-you’ll see how the first wave of invaders are torching Citreons left and right.
Sven you added–
“And your link tells only that there’s at least sone source refuting what thousands of other sources tell.
You’re fatuous.“
Sven-you haven’t LINKED ANYTHING! You’ve just said everyone outside North America and the UK disagrees with the US-then you accuse me of being fatuous!
Kettle this is Sven calling-you’re black!!!!
Dude-I picked an outspoken critic of US Middle East Policies in the US-to point out that your argument didn’t hold water. Thousands of sources agree with me-thousands agree with you-the difference is I’m correct-you’re not!
Apparently most of France agrees with the US-they’re voting pro American now!
Sven-please give your brain a chance!

By: ME

ME — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:55:44 +0000

JW — I’ve stated my ideas in this very thread.
Pull out of the cities and re-deploy to the border areas.
Let them fight it out (because they’re going to anyway — whether it’s one year or ten years from now.)
If we don;t like who wins, go back in and F them up again.
There are no magic button solutions at this point, but at least this way, we don’t have to be the Iraqi’s police force anymore.
MAX -
Ok, Touche. But you are wrong about the Black and White thing. I’m a vet too, and would rather we stop sniping at each other and get my friends out of this never-ending loop of re-deployment. Shit, my boys are on their 3rd and 4th tours by now — and can’t just keep re-deploying indefinitely.

By: Sven Ortmann

Sven Ortmann — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 17:30:05 +0000

“Hell they can’t defend themselves anymore.“
You misunderstand defense with offense.
Europe doesn’t waste its ressources on huge offensive capabilities to enable itself to have such blunders like Vietnam and Iraq. That’s why Europe hasn’t got a balance deficit of the same size as its “defense” spending.
But there’s certainly no power on earth that could successfully invade Europe against the power of Europe. The USA are utterly incapable, the Chinese would even be incapable if they were neighbours and the Russians are no match either.
And your link tells only that there’s at least sone source refuting what thousands of other sources tell.
You’re fatuous.

By: Sven Ortmann

Sven Ortmann — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:48:00 +0000

It’s interesting that the rest of the world (I mean outside of US and at most UK) considers Iran as supporter of Hezbollah and practically no other terrorists. And Hezbollah is only partially terrorist (95% media coverage) and much more state-emulation and guerilla (5% media coverage).
That you, Max, mix so many events together and connect them to Iran while it’s widely acknowledged that Iran had for example nothing to do with the 1996 bombings (they’re attributed to AQ which is sunni and strongly dislikes Iran) tells alot about how serious one should take oyour arguments.
The embassy hostage thing wasn’t even an act of terrorism (if it was, the USA would be in even bigger trouble over all those unguilty people that were released after years in Guantanamo Bay).
Well, despite the utter failure of the Bush administration and all its foreign policy activities this world still seems to have too many people who still believe the Bush administration propaganda and even the propaganda that grew of such seeds.
Wartime propaganda is always a nasty thing and far from reality, in every country and at every time. People should rather listen to news from neutral countries to inform themselves — it’s possible today after all.