CSAR-X UPDATE:
A source tells Defense Tech that one of the most powerful lawmakers on Capitol Hill in defense matters, Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), has problems with the way in which the CSAR-X decision was made.
Our source tells us that during a brief press conference announcing the completion of the 2008 appropriations bill yesterday, HAC-D chairman Murtha expressed his frustration with the contract process.
Murtha reportedly said: “What we were worried about was the way it was bid. They bid [CSAR-X] for one company, and we thought it should have been more open.”
Our source also tells DT that Murtha read Air Force chief Moseley the riot act, threatening to pull all CSAR-X funding if the program wasnt cleaned up. As it stands, the HAC-D removed $100 million of 08 funds due to protest delays.
– Christian
{ 101 comments… read them below or add one }
Poor Jack. It really is a shame when families don’t have the moral courage to “redeploy” senile, doddering old men to the love and care of an assisted living facility.
The only person that deserves the riot act from Murtha is his barber. That guy (Murtha) is a massive embarrassment to every organization he is, or has been, a part of.
You guys are fine with 1 company getting to bid on a 100 million dollar project? Isn’t that 1 company’s bid going to be the best.. no matter what?
You mean Haliburton isn’t getting “greased” in this one?
I have respect for the career this old man had in the past, but in the present he has become nothing but an embarrassing doddering old fool.
Thank you for letting me get this off my chest.
Thank God there are still “a few good men” in Congress- James Webb, Chuck Hagel, and Murtha- who have actually been in combat with a rifle in hand (rather than in a safe zone at a desk that they only leave to tell trumped up war stories) who know shit from shinola.
MURTHA HAS FORGOTTEN WHAT IT IS TO BE A MARINE.
HIS OWN PERSONEL POWER AND THAT OF THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS COMES BEFORE HIS COUNTRY AND HIS CORP.
When you open up your mouth to judge Democrats or Republicans you also bring judgement on yourself.
I guess Murtha’s still “supporting the troops” – this time, it’s by killing a new search-and-rescue chopper and making our guys figure out how to make the aging HH-60s work.
Regardless of comments pro and con on Murtha, You must agree,single source bidding leaves much to be desired….Remember the Haliburton single source contract for support in Iraq…..Bidding more than one source at least gives the impression of honesty….mlm
Murtha is a shining example of why having “been in combat with a rifle in hand” does not immunize an individual from stupidity. Slide tha corrupt fool an envelope stuffed with cash under the table and I guarantee he’ll stop his whining.
Murtha is such a joke.
He can’t even spell his name correctly.
From the latin his name is mirth or laughter,
So lets all support the MIRTHA for retirement campaign!
“In Cold Blood” Murtha should have been BOOTED long ago. He is just another Liberal Democrat who has turned against our military.
Glad to hear the yammerheads have gone from Haliburtes “No bid” contract to Haliburton single source contract. Some day perhaps they will find another switch to beat on an overwhelmingly common contract form for indeterminate services.
Murtha was a Paris Island commando during Korea and a PX commando during Nam.
Sounds like someone’s bribe was late.
So… Monumental Mouth Murtha – strikes again!
Does he think that everything that happens in Congress – requires his “papal blessing” ?
His liberal agenda and ego are beyond belief !
His inflated opinion – of himself – reminds me of Rumsfeld – who was – also “spellbound, by the sound of his own voice” !
I’m not too certain that The Corps (which I completely admire!) is all too happy to be represented by this Happy Warrior – Gone Bad !
Jerry Lyons,
Chief Master Sergeant, USAF
Retired
We need the oversight in Congress. If the Bush administration was allowed to continue it’s free wheeling mangling of the Constitution, many of you would not have the rights to make the statements that you do. Many of you need to look at history; realize what our country truly stands for and quit letting the Rush Limbaughs of the world do your thinking for you. A mean spirit and name calling will not allow this country to reunite and regain its military might and rightful, respectful place in the world. Shame on you for being so quick to turn on fellow veterans. Use your minds, look at the big picture and get behind your government.
Bill Hecke
Viet Nam Vet
Retired 1983
Looks like the voters in PA forgot to take out the gargabe again. They need to elect someone who will actually show up for their kickbacks.
Well this is one Viet Vet that disagrees with you. Bush is doing a great job and he is not mangling the constitution. You should read it before you make such accusations, son. You seem to have fallen for the typical leftist brainwashing that Bush is the problem. Well, he’s not the problem, he’s the solution and he’s a good solution. People are falling for all the crap in the media and that the dems are dishing out. You should know better being a Viet Vet. Remember all that bullcap they said about us and how we were losing the war. Well, it turned out we weren’t losing the war after all. We just turned our back and walked away and millions of people were killed, injured or had their lived uprooted by the communists both in Vietnam and Cambodia. I volunteered for Vietnam and for the Marine Corps and I’d do it again right now if I were young enough. You have no idea what you are talking about. You were probably a draftee anyway.
Semper Fi, back the man who’s willing to fight!
Bill Smith
Houston, Texas,
Former Sergeant of Marines
Looks like the voters in PA forgot to take out the gargabe again. They need to elect someone who will actually show up for their kickbacks.
Your all missing the main point here. The Air Force is still getting there choppers, the problem is, the Air Force showed favoritism, and basicly handed the company money before seeing a product. Without some kind of competition were bound to get an inferior product. I’m currently serving in the Air Force, and trust me, this service is PLAQUED with this nonsense. It’s about time somebody did something…
Murtha is living proof that there should be term limits on Congress as well as the presidency. Murtha, Hagle, Pelosi, and the rest of the unwashed should be impeached for their traitorist acts.
It is really sad that this is a military publication and yet there are so many who are narrow and start name calling. I am a veteran like many of you and yet I see that our country is based on freedoms. One of those freedoms is speech, and yet every time someone post something that doesn’t support our President then they are anti-American. I say wake up and smell the crap. The Air Force did not follow proper procedures, they were called on it. Just because you are president doesn’t make you right. As for the being anti-American because I don’t agree with the war….if standing up with the courage to voice dissent is anti-American then I ask you to read the constitution again. You missed something.
Murtha seems to be one of the few sensible people in Congress. I can’t really trust Bush and his minions to act in the best interest of our Republic, particularly since he is so obligated to the corporate folks for his tenure. This isn’t really a matter of loyalty or disloyalty…it is simply a matter good business sense. How many of us make a large purchase without double and triple checking product, price, performance, people and policies before we buy? I have a hard time in critizing a fellow marine who believes that he is acting in the best interests of our Republic. Perhaps, instead of questioning Murtha’s loyalty, we should investigate why Bush has the lowest public approval ratine since Harry Truman fired MacArthur. Is it the fact that we have been lied to by Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfield, Gonzalez, et.al., on military issues, domestic issues, international issues, etc., and our potential exposure to terrorist activity has never been higher than what it is now. Let’s see: Iraq WMD’s, no; Bin Laden captured, no; Al-Quaeda minimized, no; Improved relations world-wide, no; Katrina fixed, no; Health care for all, no; Border security, no; Balanced budget, no; Mission accomplished, no; Country united by “uniter/decider, no. Well you get the idea. Could someone else have done better? I don’t know. Could someone else have done worse? It is hard to imagine how they could have. Semper Fi
Those who support the left are also the enemy.
Why , because they are supporting our enemies.
Anti war and talking about it in the media is supporting the enemy. If the commie left would talk about there wanting out of the war behind closed doors in secret that is fine. But they should be telling the public we need VICTORY, VICTORY at all costs. To want otherwise is wanting our defeat which is treason.
God bless the late senator of Wisconsin! Bring back the committee on Un-American activities.
The entire democrat- read communist- party has committed treason. They will only continue till they destroy our great nation by use of our enemies or cause civil war.
We were not lied too Sadam had weapons and everyone knew it – including the left. All we needed to do was find one and we have found many.
Cadam supported terrorism- pd $25K to families of suicide bombers in Israel. We must protect israel.
My only problem is we have not shut down our border and DEPORTED THE ILLEGAL CRIMINALS RESIDING IN OUR COUNTRY AND DEPORTING THERE BRATS BORN HERE WHO ARE CITIZENS OF MEXICO.9PARENTS COMMITTED A CRIME GIVING BIRTH HERE.THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN.
Murtha? Isn’t he the guy that called our Marines cold blooded killers before any evidence was ever presented? Did he also get the evidence for this before making his comments?
Murtha—-He is a disgrace to the U.S.M.C. and also he is the only EX-Marine in the history of the Marine Corps—Bill Wyda former Sgt. U.S.M.C.Korean War Vet. 1948 to 1952
Msg to old grunt .
Old Grunt is a disgrace to the uniform he served under. While I have many concerns about some decisions that are made by the current administration, and I disagree with many as well; I refuse to disparage the President or the office of the President during a time of war. It is obvious the old grunt has been a Bush hater for a long time and he needs to review the definition of a lie before spouting off accusations. It is a shame that too many people in this country today have such hatred for the President that it is more important to them to destroy the President at the expense of the safety of the country. What a pitty!
I believe Murtha over the President or the Defense Department.
I’ve just read two comments concerning the war in Iraq supporting Bush’s position. I’m just wondering did he pay you to make stupid comments or are you just dumb.
I was in the service at the beginning of the Viet Nam war and fortunately I did not have to go over there. At the time I fully believed in what we were doing and if had be stationed there I would have been proud to go. It took me over twenty years to realize that war should be the last thing that we should do. All we did was line the pockets of the rich and kill a lot of young Americans. As a side note I was also a Republican for many years and felt betrayed by Carter’s pardon of all the draft dodgers.
Now I vote for the man and not the party. I always vote but it seems that I vote more in protest of who is running. If I were to vote today I would have to vote Democratic since the Republicans no longer want to represent the people. However, I would vote for Mr. Powell if anyone could convince him to run. At least he seems to understand foreign policy.
But, back to the subject; how can anyone think that this war is not another screwed up Viet Nam is beyond me. What are we accomplishing? No weapons of mass distruction. Big lie?? Has to be. Sold out one of our CIA agents? Pardoned one of the conspiritors. Mangling our constitutional rights? (By the way, one of you needs to read the Constitution, just not claim to have…son.) Damn right if it keeps them in power. Bidding for contracts? Why do that when the VP’s friends can line their pockets. Excuse any wrong doing by staff? Why not, we have the power. Lie to the people daily? Sure they’re stupid, all we have to do is raise the terror level. Follow us home and have their way with us? Sorry, they are here already and more coming every day with our porous borders that the rich want open so they can get the cheap labor at home. Mistreat the vets? What the hell, it would cost money to do the right thing. Just too many to list.
Support our troops? I do. Lets bring them home and just admit we have allowed our government to lead us into a huge mistake. Sometimes, just like in kid’s games, you have to say “do over”. Lets back out of a place we didn’t and don’t belong. We would not be betraying the people over there since they hate us anyway. They hate themselves worse. We do not belong in their civil war. Sorry Halliburton.
EX-Marine Murtha is a disgrace to the Corps. His political agenda is to destroy the President. He took an oath to support and defend the Country. I have yet to see Kennedy or Murtha and his followers come up with a plan for crisis in the world. GOD help us if we get Hillary for President. As a former Marine wounded in Viet Nam I still believe that our colors should not run. Imagine these Liberals in-charge of our country. God Bless the USA
Ed,
Speaking of stupid comments and being just dumb:
1. Voting just to protest is not voting for the man – dumb and stupid.
2. Iraq = Vietnam – you were there! Look back through historical fact not dim lit memories. dumb.
3. No weapons of Mass Destruction – Where have you been hiding under a rock. Let me say Syria, Russian special forces, the Iraqi General letting everyone know that they were moved and hidden. dumb and stupid
4. Sold out one of our CIA agents – Valerie Plame I think not. She was no more covert then Howdy Doody. very dumb
I could go on and on. Please do us all a favor and don’t vote in the next election since you seem to go off of emotion and not fact.
“Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged.”
Abraham Lincoln
And that applies to Jack Murtha.
LtCol of Marines (Retired)
Should we examine and criticize our President and other elected leaders ? YOU BET!! But do it using the right platform. ANYTHING, and I do mean ANYTHING (Murtha, Hillary, Pelosi, the liberal media shooting off thier NON-combat,NON-qualified big mouths)that provides “fodder” for the enemies propoganda machine…provides aid to our enemies and hinders our Marines…those dodging the bullet, RPGs, and roadside bombs.
It appears that my Marine Corps has just as many enemies INSIDE THE BELTWAY, as it does as it does in Afghanistan, Iraq, and…….!!! 325254
I find it interesting that so many people here seem to think this was a sole source award. There were three bidders the first time it was bid and then, after a protest, all three are still in it. Boeing, Lockheed and Sikorsky are the companies. The controvery is whether the award to Boeing was done correctly, not whether there were more bidders.
The HH47 helo that won (so far) is a good bird that has been aroiund for many years, the only question is if another bird would have been better.
Seeing people bashing Bush here is the most nutty though since the competition is run and managed by the Air Force and mostly the career civil servants at that.
Murtha’s a disgrace to the uniform he wore.
Thank God for true Americans and Veterans like John Murtha! Being a veteran myself and the father of three children two currently serving and one a veteran, I am grateful that someone is looking out for their interest.
I sympathize with all the current administration followers that now lack the moral conviction to admit that they helped elect a totally incompetent team into the white house.
You can belly ache all you want blame everybody else but your guy is in office and he created the mess this country is in; want to blame someone look in the mirror.
Congressman Murtha
Wants more contractor on the CSAR-X so he has more donators to donate to him or he will blackmail them. I have not forgotten Abscam. If you do not know what abscam is, look it up. Nate
Have any of you been procurement officers? I doubt Murtha was, or many on Capital Hill. When the final Bids come in on a contract and you look at the cost and technical ability, sometimes only one company can do it no matter how cheap the others are. Plus Murtha may be mad that his state did not get any of the contract pie, and congress can stop any Military contract they want, just because they do not like it. It is a bad system, but the only one we have. Congress controls the money, they forget the good that is surpose to come out of it and for who they are doing it for, The People. Retired MSgt
This is coming from a guy who is the king of hiding earmarks and pork in every piece of legislation he can get his hands on. Is he is so interested in the using the correct process why does he bury his sleasy earmark deep inside these bills. Why not bring them up and debate them and let them pass on their merits. This guy is a joke.
This is coming from a guy who is the king of hiding earmarks and pork in every piece of legislation he can get his hands on. If he is so interested in the using the correct process why does he bury his sleasy earmarks deep inside these bills. Why not bring them up and debate them and let them pass on their on merits. This guy is a joke.
At least someone in Washington is doing their job! Asking questions about DoD bid processes is not a bad thing, nor a anti-war communist thing, it is one of the charters of our elected officials who are charged with spending the hard earned tax (and fees) money siphoned from the People. If you don’t like earmarks, write your
Represenative(s), vote and take advantage of the democratic process to eliminate practices you don’t want our elected agents to engage in in your name.
Thank you.
Didn’t Boeing win the CSAR-X? If so, then Congressman Murtha can’t really be irked because an out of state firm got the work – Boeing builds their helicopters in Philadelphia!
Murtha, is the rear end of the donkeies that elected him.
May the biblical curse of seven and seven be laid at the feet of Murtha and his children.
Why should anyone in a uniform give a flying #$%^ what “forgotten faithfulness” Murtha thinks. He is a traitor to the Corp, and all services.
REMEMBER HADITHA
(His willingness to “fry” the Corp in the media before the investigation was even close to complete.)
Let me see if I have this correct Murtha a former Marine Corps Commissioned Officer, is now considered an ex-Marine. All the comments being posted here are from Enlisted Marines, still Marines! I wonder who has a better grasp of the military procurement process, the commissioned officer or the enlisted man? Since when did ex-grunts become expert in Military procurement and foreign policy?
The poster that equated Murtha with James Webb is truly an ignorant person. James Webb, though now a democrat, is one of the most honest men in congress. A man who truly does not bend to anything that conflicts with his principles. I regret he turned democrat, but I still have nothing but respect for him as an Officer of Marines, combat veteran, Secretary of the Navy, author, politician, and father. He is a good man.
Then there is Murtha…not even in the same league with Webb. Look up abscam as others have recommended – actually examine this disgrace’s career in office, then come back. He was his unit’s 10% to be sure, and he still is now.
Republicans are sore losers and it’s always enjoyable for me to listen to them whine about something that they have absolutely no control over. They are a group of people who are so full of hate that if you disagree with them there personal language becomes heavy with vile and vulgar words. They think they know everything. Well I personally know that they made a serious mistake by misleading the American public and dragging us into a senseless war. Everyone who stands around or near Bush is a criminal. Some have already been inditated, tried and sent to prison. There is talk of impeachment, and maybe it will go forward. It would be a good step for the country to take and hopefully the next administration will at least have a few honest people.
It seems that what started out as an enquiry into a contract has turned into the usual DIMWIT Bush Bashing. Praising murtha as a “combat officer” when he was actually a staff type in Vietnam and spent the rest of his “illustrious career” in the reserves. When he slimed marines even before an investigation, in order to gain publicity for himself, he deserves the title of EX marine. He doesn’t GIVE A DAMM about the CORPS, only his political career. He is quite willing, unlike real marines, to leave a few fellow marines behind to advance himself. Murtha’s arrogance is on a par with that other “war hero” Kerry.
More of the taxpayers money wasted. Our money would be better spend, if the Government would have more open bids. Developed projects that really work and not spend money on projects that would not work, then cancel them half way thru-them. Have a better over-site committee, then political hacks that are in Washington D.C.
Poor little Jack Murtha, coward in the truest form…a freaking non-combat assclown. A traitor to his rotten core.
I am sorry James I can’t understand what you are saying over the whining that you are doing.
Senseless war? I guess you beleive the 9/11, the USS Cole bombing, and the numerous other acts of terroism since the Iran hostage crisis was all staged by non other than Bush. Cry me a river why don’t you.
Explain how someone who has 2 purple hearts and a bronze star is a desk jockey? The same a man can loose three limbs, Sen Max Cleland, and be called a traitor. And on and on goes these chicken hawks decrying others men valour and sending others needlessly off to war. Shame! Yes Congressmen Murtha has ethic issues, but here he may actually may be right. Don’t turn an argument into name-calling as I just did, but point out why he is wrong in attacking Boeings bid.
Navy Vet – I am also a proud veteran of the Navy. Served during the Viet Nam war, which has been proven to be a senseless war. My father and other relatives also served proudly in one military service or another. I flew in many missions off of aircraft carriers, risked my life in many ways, simply because I love this country that we live in. I lost several friends due to combat action and a couple to unfortunate accidents.
Osama Bin Laden was the planner and executor of the 9/11 attack and the attack on the Cole. He is the man who funds and recruits the terrorists that you so fear. So tell me why we are in the middle of a civil war in a country that did not and does not have any WMD’s. The only people they are terrorizing is themselves. They are killing each other daily, on a grand scale. Try and convince me that there are Iraqi citizens who are planning on coming to our country and to terrorize us. I am man enough to protect myself and dare them to come to my neighborhood.
Navy Vet…You must have been a nurse or something.
Navy Vet – I am also a proud veteran of the Navy. Served during the Viet Nam war, which has been proven to be a senseless war. My father and other relatives also served proudly in one military service or another. I flew in many missions off of aircraft carriers, risked my life in many ways, simply because I love this country that we live in. I lost several friends due to combat action and a couple to unfortunate accidents.
Osama Bin Laden was the planner and executor of the 9/11 attack and the attack on the Cole. He is the man who funds and recruits the terrorists that you so fear. So tell me why we are in the middle of a civil war in a country that did not and does not have any WMD’s. The only people they are terrorizing is themselves. They are killing each other daily, on a grand scale. Try and convince me that there are Iraqi citizens who are planning on coming to our country and to terrorize us. I am man enough to protect myself and dare them to come to my neighborhood.
Navy Vet…You must have been a nurse or something.
Open bids only delay the development and timeliness of getting what we need.
Negotiated contracts with vendors who have proven themselves is the only way.
Business does it all the time.
Murtha is a pelosi lap dog(hence his position) while he rallied against the marines to get it! liar and subject to bribery.
He is worthless.
I would be willing to bet Murtha doesn’t even remember what gun powder smells like, spent gun powder that is. But then, prior to going to S.E.A., you didn’t have to fire off that many rounds to qualify. How id the saying fo/ Something like, “Second Lt.’s are at it again, fighting the war with a fountain pen.”
Those of you vomiting up the left’s rhetoric of “there were no WMDs in Iraq are making me sick. They found a brief case full of Sarin nerve gas, which is enough to take a middle sized city. Let us not forget the Iraqi Air Force General who personally remembers flying WMDs into Syria on a commerical jet. They also had literally tons of it during the first Gulf War. We blew up the Kasmirah ammo dump and exposed 500,000 of our own troops to 3 days of Sarin, Cyclo-Sarin, and Mustard. I have two letters from the DOD telling me I was exposed to those toxins. So get your heads out of the sand and realize that the WMDs were there and ARE STILL there. Until every inch of ground in that country has been dug up to a depth of 20 feet you have NO PROOF that the WMDs are/were NOT there.
Incidentally, Nurses in the Army are Soldiers and do get exposed to the same dangers as every other Soldier. I was in a Forward Surgical Element and we were on the front lines of the 24th ID during the First Desert Storm. We were exposed to the same dangers as everyone else.
James,
Thank you for your service but as I said before quit being a hypocrit about the whining.
By the way that was a real manly barb about being a nurse at the end.
P.S. The only thing I fear is individuals such as yourself wanting to give up and allowing more attacks. One tactical nuke can ruin a perfectly good day. Have a great day shipmate!
John Murtha is a disgrace to the Corps and his country. He is corrupt, cowardly, without morals, and only out for himself. I was stationed with his son in Wash, D.C. and their was not much difference. One other thing about Rep Murtha, he is so vindictive he would prefer to see ALL of our military branded as murderers and rapist without the tiniest of evidence just to get back at Bush. He must really provide a lot of pork projects to his constituents or buys a lot of votes to continue in office. This man is a lying, shameful coward, and definately not an American. By the way, his so called hero decorations from Viet Nam were the normal going away alive given to commanders. Those of you who have been there will understand that.
Semper Fi to all you Marines out there.
To Bill Smith of Houston, Texas; former Sergeant of our Marines.
SEMPER FI to you old Warrior, I CONCUR with ALL your comments.
GOD BLESS AMERICA and OUR WARRIORS
John Murtha is an old worn out has been and should be put out to pasture. The reason he is not is that he gets pork barrel funding for his district and buys the votes. If he had a worth while vision on the current day and was not in this for his own ego something positive would take place in Washington. Along with the likes of the carpet bagger (Murphy-Bucks County) and the wicked witch from the WEST Congress is all Screwed up.
Murtha is a disgrace to Congress…He is so anti-Bush that he cannot see what he is doing to our country…God bless our real military personnel..Murtha, you are not included in this category……. SGM retired
doesn’t Murtha have a major British Aerospace (BAE) plant in his district?
This Iraq war was entered into by the US for
honorable, and valid reasons. The real sticking point, by Democrat members of Congress, is that we did not find the WMDs. My personal contention
is that the WMDs were there, no doubt, but they
most surely were relocated to Syria or Iran, destroyed, or are still hidden in Iraq. There were some chemical weapons found, in the form of artillery rounds, but this doesn’t stick with Congressional Democrats — not suprisingly.
As I understand this bidding on the new model helicopter, there were initially three companies
submitting bids; Boeing, Lockheed, and Sikorsky.
There was some question as to the correctness of
the contract award to Boeing. I do believe that all three of the companies did each submit a valid bid. If that is in fact true, then it was not a matter of “no other bidders participating”, as was implied.
With respect to Colonel Murtha, he was filmed in the act of taking money, and talking about additional bribes in the form of money, from that person “when he got used to them”, in return for favors he could do for them. In my book, that is
a criminal act, and particularly damning when it
is done by a US Congressman. If he had been a Republican, his carcass would still be conspicuously twisting in the wind right there on the front steps to the Capital Bldg.
One last comment. The war in Iraq would have long been over but for Democrat resistance to the
President’s honorable efforts to fight terrorism
where terrorism is born and exported, rather than here in America’s cities. Terrorism is exported from Iraq, just as it is from Iran; if we can’t see that, then we’re blind. The very liberal, and very biased media, has been instrumental in keeping this war from coming to a successful
conclusion in Iraq. Between the media and the Democrats in Congress, America does not need any more enemies.Nor do we need any more RINOs.
Thank you for the opportunity to express myself.
Grady Oxford
US Army, Retired
In his posted comments (SgtMaj Darrell E. Hatcher USMC(Ret) at July 27, 2007 04:02 PM)
hit the facts straight away. Murtha is a crooked politican who was recorded discussing bribe money. He is also a non-patriot who seemed to want the Marines accused of crimes to be proven guilty and even stated they were guilty based on faulty information. His words to the media have been treasonous because he is loyal to the Democratic party instead of the American people. If I had it in my power he would be standing before a courts martial answering charges.
Murtha is a disgrace to Congress.He is so anti-Bush that he cannot see what he is doing to our country.God bless our real military personnel..Murtha, you are not included in this category.Murtha should never tell anyone that he once wore a uniform for this country. i’m sick of his comments our soldiers are fighting a war that must be won. he just cannot see that!! 1SG retired
I would like to say, as an English citizen with somebody in the American forces who is in the thick of things ~ the efforts that have been made by all that are fighting a GOOD cause can only be made harder by the likes Murtha.
Without a shadow of a doubt there were WMD’s present in Iraq, hell still are more than likely, but hidden. I also think there are many more in surrounding countries.
Wake up!!!
I would like to say, as an English citizen with somebody in the American forces who is in the thick of things ~ the efforts that have been made by all that are fighting a GOOD cause can only be made harder by the likes Murtha.
Without a shadow of a doubt there were WMD’s present in Iraq, hell still are more than likely, but hidden. I also think there are many more in surrounding countries.
Wake up!!!
Murtha is a traitor pure and simple as are most democrats. They should all face a firing squad as far as I’m concerned. If someone in power doesn’t come up with some common sense leadership this country is doomed. Murtha will be a major player in bringing that about. D. Noland veteran
I served in U.S. Air Force security service during the 1950′s. If we had made statements like Murtha and the Democrats we would have been tried and convicted as traitors to my beloved U.S. of A.
John M.
war or no war—airplane or no airplane –is not this nation’s biggest problem —losing all our rights as a human being.is–a bill has just been signed sealed and delivered you can’t cross any state line with a ky. fried chicken alive with out being jailed fined or both unless you can prove why you crossed the state line with a live chicken.this bill was passed for p.e.t.a.–h.s.u.s. and their money paved the way–all the way through the house congress and signed by our president to satify the humane soc.which in turn get’s millions of dollars from people who think after they die their little doggie or little kitty will be taken care off –what a joke the little doggies and kitties will go to a animal shelter if not adopted will be killed in a few day’s— they are against all labs.that use any animals such as rats mice monkeys to find cures for aids–cancer–heart–lung–kidney–or any thing that will help man kind.they live to protect animals—their war is to stop all our rights. to stop hunting–fishing–rodeos–bull riding–deer–rabbit–coon–or any other animal sports.to prove my point they won’t tackle big poultry hog or beef co.but don’t think they won’t tackel them later as soon as congress passes small bills like crossing state lines — killing mice rats snakes etc. big poultry will be next after all the poultry co. kill billions every year if they get their way through congress we will eat vegetables on the front lines.I SERVED 3 YEARS IN SERVICE FOR US ALL TO HAVE AND KEEP OUR CIVIL RIGHTS BUT WE DON’T HAVE MANY LEFT.AND LOSING MORE EACH YEAR.IF THINGS DON’T CHANGE AND SOON WE WILL BE UNDER HITLERS RULES —DON’T LAUGH JUST NOW—YOU MAY NOT WANT TO LATER.TO THINK A 18 YEAR OLD SOLDIER FIGHTING IN A WAR COMES HOME AND CAN’T EVEN DRINK A BEER –CAN GET JAIL TIME FOR BEING IN A BAR WITH A BEER IN HIS HAND.CAN BARELY BUY A PACK OF CIG.WHAT A LAUGH NO I DON’T DRINK OR SMOKE,BUT I DO BELIEVE IF A SOLDIER IS OLD ENOUGH TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY HE IS OLD ENOUGH TO DRINK A BEER OR SMOKE WITH OUT GOING TO JAIL —DON’T YOU? A POLITICIAN WILL DO OR SAY ANY THING TO GET TO THE WHITE HOUSE BUT LOOKS OUT FOR #ONE WHEN HE DOES NO MATTER WHO HE OR SHE HURTS—-JUST FACTS THANKS FOR READING—BUT GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT.
A person like Murtha has no place challenging any one whom has served in combat. Nor do any of the loud mouth democrats. The truth is that every one in congress or in the senate that has spoken out against the war using language that could or has affected the moral of our troops or could or has strenghened the resolve of our enemies in this WAR ON TERROR is a traitor and should be treated as such. Traitors should be hanged by the neck until dead. God Bless our heros over there and Gods speed to them all.
Why can’t they get pass this.Take a mh-47 and work it out. use them side by side and see if it does the job.Bigger is better most os the time but not with this.This is needed soon and the air force has to make a wise choice. rebuild or buy new hh60′s or the us 101 its good for hmx1 .
As a retired Marine and Viet Nam Vet, I think I have the right to say that Murtha has done nothing but bring SHAME to him self and Our Marine Corps. Not only is he willing to consider taking bribes, but he’ll also do his best to stall needed funding for our military while he adds a bunch of his own ear-marked projects (pork) to the spending bill.
As a Marine, I am ashamed of him and John Glenn.
On the other side there’s John McCain… This mas has also lost his mind. Almost make you think of the movie “The Manchurian Candidate”, but with a different mission. Hmmmmmmm Let’s think about that one…shall we…
i am a democrat, but i am sick of everyone who complains about the war and and thinks if we walk away from iraq, everything will be ok. we have a limited time before we are battacked in our oun homeland because we are encouraging the fanatics letting them know we dont have the guts to face the horrors of war. that being said, we are not safer, nor will we be because the idiot bush had to attack iraq in the first place instead of staying after osama..
we let him escape because no one thought to clost the back door.
rumsfeld had no idea what he was getting us into. poor planning from the start and now we have to take on international jihad idiots who think virgins will be waiting for them…why dont any muslims say that thats a crock, or do they all accually think that.
now that we have an all volenteer (?) army, and have the same soldiers having to serve more than 1 or 2 tours in iraq, they are going back 3,4, 5, and who knows how many times.
it time to think of a draft again. but i think everyone should spend time in the military. too many people think freedom is free and will always be.
we came close to speaking japanese, or german, and will probably end up speaking chinese because americans are not only stupid or ignorant about our freedom they wont do anything to protect their own country. lets go about our livezs and keep sticking our heads in the sand… maybe it wont afect us….
in 1961 and 1962, i used to seperate soldiers from 90 day reserve training at fort ord, and i knew then we were in for a rough time to keep an
all volunteer army that that would be big enough to cover a world war, let alone a limited action like we are in now….wake up people. one day the life you know will be over.
never mind, we even resist the effects we have on our planet because its better to make money, no mattet what it costs our children.
It is my belief that every American should know what it takes to be free. Those of us who have served in the Armed Services know that it only takes a moment and our service to our country is eternal in our death. Let all Americans bear the burden that is carried only by the few who volunteered for service.
As well, all new immigrants should be required to serve for two years to obtain citizenship.
With the growing number of casualties and deaths in Iraq/Afghanistan, it is time to step up and require everyone to pull their weight for freedom.
Beside Murtha himself, who gives a rat’s ass what the old senile man says, thinks, or does.
His time has passed. All he is concerned about is his reelection, power, wealth, and his personal legacy. The American Military comes first. Not murtha.
John Murtha’s opinion carries no weight or credibility for me, and I candidly regret the man has the power he’s been given. That level of clout should have been reassessed and withdrawn before the troops crossed the line of departure in Iraq.
Murtha has more balls than bush and all of his chickenhawks put together. It is a crime that many defense contractors are making a profit off of the blood of or our heros in action in afgan and iraq. Bush is the one who needs to be redeployed…to prison!!! He let Osama go free. Osama is a Saudi and now we want to sell the saudies 20 billion worth of weapons which will eventually be used to kill more of our brothers in arms. Find Tillmans Murderer!
Murtha has more balls than bush and all of his chickenhawks put together. It is a crime that many defense contractors are making a profit off of the blood of or our heros in action in afgan and iraq. Bush is the one who needs to be redeployed…to prison!!! He let Osama go free. Osama is a Saudi and now we want to sell the saudies 20 billion worth of weapons which will eventually be used to kill more of our brothers in arms. Find Tillmans Murderer!
Bush let osama go???????? WTF????? Did I miss something here? Hmmmmmmm I guess Clinton was the one who initiated the man hunt on him LMAO, fu****
liberals……………………….
Murtha, has a worse combat record than Kerry. He is a fake, and is combat recored have been altered. He won more decoration that Kerry, but if t you look you will see he is another FAKE!
Murtha, has a worse combat record than Kerry. He is a fake, and is combat recored have been altered. He won more decoration that Kerry, but if t you look you will see he is another FAKE!
YOU can keep my post out, but not the truth!!
How can you tell if a Republican is speaking lies? His lips are moving!
How can you tell if a Republican is trying to pose as a Democrat, on this website? The grammar is bad!
Some of it as bad as a Bush speech.
It’s a damn shame that some one like Harry Reid makes a comment about Gen. Peter Pace that he is incompetent. Having Reid & all the other dem cronies is like having Nero as the Fire Chief of Rome. What the hell does Reid know about combat & insurection. All the WMD’s are in Syria, cool Harry just in case you have been under a rock for 5 yrs & to think you can vote & hold office seems to me you are the proof in the pudding of the Peter Principle. Liberalism is a mental disease & you can’t fix stupid.
Another Marine against Liberalism
I think it is a total shame that those you call Mr. Murtha a fake the same as John Kerry. First, anyone who never has served, should not call anyone a fake, how would they know what really goes on. John Kerry is not my most favorite person, however, Mr. Kerry, did serve in Vietnam!!!! and I am getting out and forgetful. How many tours did the President perform?????
Gee guys. How about putting the brakes on who’s nagging and focus on the process in which an inferior platform was chosen.
hey Bob,
who got us into Vietnam (Kennedy) A Democrat. Who kept us in Vietnam (Johnson)a Democrat. Who got us out of Vietnam (Nixon/Ford) a Republican. Who destroyed our military through cuts, A Democrat (Carter/CLINTON). Now that we were actually attacked, 9-11 and violations of the “No fly Zone” you people cant commit. It is also funny how “Band-Aid” Kerry condemed the party he now supports as well as all the rest that either voted for hostilities, changed their minds, etc etc. I am sure glad the whimps that complain are not in charge. If America is dumb enough to vote History, God help us.
While Murtha was a Marine in a “former life”,his record as a supported uf them & the other services is abyssmal. I truly don’t understand his attitude at all. I do appreciate the posting by Cory,Crag,& Crusty Old Chief.They nailed what I’ve been feeling about Murtha & others like him.
Thank you,all of you, for serving your country.As a civilian, but a stgaunch military supporter, I know that the freedoms that I & millions like me have been secured only by the efforts of all our armed services.Freedom isn’t a right, it’s a privilege,& as a country,we should be supporting our fighting men & women always.
The very very tiny number of right wing combat vets among the vicious minority of vocal chicken hawks who sacrifice freedoms for idiocy need to move on.
America can and no long will be a home for them.
Democracy requires intelligence. Following political extremists under the direct control of international corporations caused 911 (the “inside job” of all time) and now the hopeless humiliation of our defeat in Iraq is the opposite of patriotism.
Stupidity is no excuse for treason, even if your name is Bush, Cheney or Gonzoles.
A message to our “right”: Just because you are too crazy to know reality from spin, don’t assume that others will ever forget your betrayal of America.
First off…Murtha is a Rep. not a Senator…Second: His so called ox has been gored because he was not put in the to know process….to what? try and do some more under the table pay off crap that he almost got nabbed for? He was a REMF Marine and thats all !!!
Hey mitch.. Get your facts straight. Another right winger going off. Listen up. It was Eisenhour who signed the agreement to protect South Vietnam if invaded.
Oh yea the Democrats did it LOL. Read history or live it then speak.
scrubbush is commanderinchief. lol too bad he was a coward that got out of Vietnam service because of his dad. The other bush. a republican.
A Proud Marine and others should be proud enough to give his name…To many anonymous patriots on this board…Murtha did not go AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard…Bush is a verbal only warrior…
2/5,usually Fox Co, 1MarDiv,An Hoa & Hue,4/67-5/68,HM2
Are there still people perpetuating the AWOL lie???
Article 2, Paragraph 3 of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) states No Guardsman can be AWOL unless called to Federal (Activate) service.
That said, Bush’s Guard units were NEVER called to active duty, so there can be NO AWOL.
Why is that people who do not share ones political agenda find it necessary to LIE to further their agenda? Surely, they do not instill confidence in their judgment skills, and raises the question of the intellectual honesty in all they do.
I won’t comment on the political argument going on in this thread, but I will comment on the the choice of the U.S. Military to single bid a project.
First off, have any of you read the FAR regulations that military contractors are required to follow? The FAR clearly limits the profit any contractor can make selling a product to the government. There have also been recent changes to accomodate excessive pass-through charges. A pass-through charge is when a company sells a product to the government by purchasing the item from another company. If there is no substantiated value applied to a product by the prime contractor, a limitation is placed on the profit margin the contractor can obtain from the pass-through. This is meant to hurt the real enemy of the government; subcontracted pork!
I work for a large defensive company. Actually, I work for the second largest defense company in the world. Look it up if you want to know what the company is. Like anyone else, a company learns to do business with trusted partners. It is unwise for anyone to simply go with the lowest bidder on everything. Does it promote competition? Not really. The only thing that 100% open bidding does is degrade the quality of any product. Let’s look at an anology:
If you wanted to buy a house and decided that you were going to go with the lowest bidder no matter what, then take the house as it was completed, what sort of house do you think you would be living in? I’ll tell you. You would live in a pile of crap. Instead if you did your research and chose to only allow those contractors with a 5 star rating bid on the construction of your house you might get 3 bidders on your luckiest day. One of those three contractors would win the job and you would live in a beautiful house. Now let’s say you decide to sell your house and build a new one. Who are you going to call? Most likely, if you loved everything about your last house you will call the last contractor you used. But, for posterity’s sake let’s say you opened up the bidding once again. Again you ask the 3 contractors to bid on your new house. You choose a different contractor this time. Your new house is beautiful and you love it, but there are some things you wish would have been done differently. So, because you are not 100% satisfied with your house you sell it within a few years and start the process all over. This time you choose the third contractor to build your house. It is fine as well. Time goes on and you sell it and decide to build your last home, your dream home. Who do you call? do you open the bidding up to all three again and hope that the few problems you found with the other contractors goes away miraculously or do you go straight to the contractor that made you the happiest? I know what I would do, especially if there were lawful limitations as to how much profit the contractor could make off me.
To think that the military branches have not been around the block and know what contractors to trust on which types of contracts, you are dead wrong. Can there be favoritism? Absolutely! Should there be favoritism? Maybe. Aerospace products are not cheap by any means! Good products are very expensive! But always remember this, the terms of the contract are what really determine the cost to the military. It is just like the $300 ashtray that the Navy used to buy. Some people would argue that the ashtray was excessively priced. Was it? I think not. The ashtray was built to exacting specification laid down by the U.S. Navy. What were they you ask; 1. Since the ashtray had the potential to by shipboard, it could not shatter. 2. If it did break, it would have to break in 3 evenly distributed pieces. 3. Each piece of the ashtray could not have an edge on it that could seriously lacerate flesh. 4. Each ashtray had to weigh a specific weight in order to stay in place. 5. The ashtray’s design had to be lot tested at regular intervals at the contractors expense. 6. The contractor had to allow for source inspection whenever the customer wanted. 7. The contractor had to deliver the units to a specified schedule, that if not met forced them to reduce their profit margin incrementally determined by the delinquency of the product.
I am sure I could name a few more “Requirements” placed on the contractor by the Navy, but I think you get the point. Quite simply stated, there are a few “Big Boys” in the defense game. They are big because they gave the military what they wanted when they wanted it. All companies are out to make a profit, it is the nature of business. None of us in the business of providing the U.S. Military with the weapons and supplies they request are out to steal from the American public and gouge the government. We are patriots, and we are proud of what we do and what we provide. It is much more profitable for us to sell our product to foreign governments than it is to sell it to the U.S. government. If we were in it only for the money we would be doing more business outside the U.S., and you would see only foreign competitors building U.S. military equipment because they are not limited by federal law in regard to profits.
Finally, no, I do not work for the contractor of the story’s subject matter. Is the product inferior, maybe when it is considered against what is available, but maybe not when considered in regard to what the specifications the military provided to the contractor are. Sometimes when the government asks for an ashtray, they really do only want a regular ashtray, not the highly engineered one the Navy required after WWII.
Let’s us clear up some right wing civilian and right wing mostly Vietnam [my first war-was a SGT E-5 25th ID then] silly misstatements.
1. Every State, territory and the District of Columbia has a State AWOL law to cover members of the Army and Air National Guard when not Federalized. So dear right wing apologists it was possible not only to go AWOL from the Guard it was possible for the state to prosecute the AWOL guard member.
2. Battle stars…hmmmm I guess some of you right wingers have poor memories. Now right wingers can you get this concept…if some one reported in on the second to last day of one campaign and then served in a second campaign and was PCSing out of country on the second day of a third campaign guess what…3 stars…or is this too complicated a military personnel concept for right wing Viet era vets to grasp 38 or more years later.
3. You right wing vets should be more concerned about platoons down to 18 soldiers and units that have the IG flunk 100% of the weapons in the battalion and order 40% back to the depot for rebuilding….oh yeah…Rush Limbaugh [draft doger just like the V.P.] doesn’t talk about it so you don’t know about it…sorry I forgot if you don’t hear it on right wing radio or see it in a right wing news letter or blog you don’t know it is going on…
Regards,
3 War Vet[RVN-Desert Storm & OIF]
Like it or not, President Bush is the Commander in Chief. I am surprised to find so many ex military being so disrespectful. We are all Americans, and we can disagree, without being disagreeable. This political nonsense is splitting our nation down the seams, and hurting our democracy. I encourage all active and retired military to bring some character and decency back to the discourse on current events. Stop putting political affiliation before our national interests, and stop feeding yourself on talk shows that thrive on stoking the disagreement in our country. The old saying is true, “a house divided can not stand”.
I find nothing that the Democratic majority is or has been doing to be patriotic in any way. Since I was a Marine in the late 60′s, this one party has not only stopped being the party of FDR, they more than anything else resemble the party of Putin and Co. Yesterday I was watching as they changed the vote on the floor from being against them to their favor and quickly moved on like a page out of Gen. Noreaga or the present “president” of Venezuela. For once since I was a private, I’d like to see a country united. But it appears that the rift has grown wider with each dawning day. Rome did not crumble from the hordes of the North. Greece did not cease to be because of outer pressure. They did as we are now doing, crumbling from the inside of a cancer of mistrust and partisinship politics. Hatred of our President and his staff and a general hate of all that is good about this country. I have come a long way and have seen much things that have shaken our foundation somewhat but I have never seen a house stand with only one of 8 supporters in place. I pray to God that I meet my maker before this country goes to hell in a handbasket. May God have mercy on us.
Very well said John. I could’nt agree more.
Quoting: three war vet at August 3, 2007 09:15 PM:
“1. Every State, territory and the District of Columbia has a State AWOL law to cover members of the Army and Air National Guard when not Federalized. So dear right wing apologists it was possible not only to go AWOL from the Guard it was possible for the state to prosecute the AWOL guard member.”
This statement MAY or may NOT be true…since the author did NOT provide us a reference to any state’s, let alone the State of Texas’s public law concerning Guard service (law) for the years in question when Bush served.
So sorry Dear “LEFT WING apologist”…We are well aware that there are those who are used to making accusations not supported by fact or law…and thinking people give all due consideration to a comments that is not support fact they deserve.