There are reports of a pending sale of large numbers of advanced Russian fighters and tanker aircraft to Iran. The arms deal between the Rosoboronexport arms group and the Iranian government is said to provide for the sale of 250 Su-30MKM Flanker multi-role fighters and 20 Il-78MKI Midas aerial tankers. If these numbers are correct, this would be the largest Russian arms deal in about three decades, amounting to several tens of billions of dollars.
The Su-30 is now flown by the air forces of China, India, Malaysia, Russia, and Vietnam. In February 2004, U.S. Air Force pilots flying the F-15C Eagle fought against Indian pilots in an exercise with several types of fighter aircraft participating, including the Su-30. The U.S. pilots lost the exercise, named “Cope India.” However, the U.S. pilots did fight against odds of 3:1 and the F-15s did not use their AN/APG-63(V)2 electronically scanned array radars nor did they simulate using the AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. Still, the effectiveness of the Indian Su-30s did surprise many American observers.
As Western military officers plot the potential strike ranges for Su-30s based in Iran, they note that the aircraft could reach targets throughout the Middle East, including Israel. In-flight refueling, of course, would permit heavier weapons loads as well as greater ranges.
The web site MilitaryPeriscope.com shows that the Iranian Air Force currently flies about 285 fighter and attack aircraft:
65 F-4D/E Phantom fighter-attack
60+ F-5E Tiger II fighter
25 F-14A Tomcat fighter
24 Shenyang F-7M attack/trainer
24 F-7 (Chinese MiG-19 Farmer type) fighter
29 MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter-attack
30 Su-24MK Fencer fighter-attack
7 Su-25 Frogfoot attack
24 Mirage F1EQ fighter
The Su-30 acquisition would probably lead to the United States selling more advanced fighter-type aircraft as well as air defense systems to its allies in the region, especially Israel, Egypt, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.
UPDATE: A DT reader responds to the assertion that the SU-30s beat the F-15…
I [DELETED] hunted this winter with an air force guy attending the Naval War College and they considered it more like a “sponge exercise”. They purposely handicaped the F-15 guys from Alaska. They picked up all sorts of information about that plane (Su-30), particulary, the radar. The 1, in the 3:1, occurred in the later half of the exercise in which the F-15 guys modified their tactics using older technology to defeat the Su-30. So while, they like winning all the time [They did come out the real winners: Tactics, capablities, and new buddies “the IAF”], they really only lost in press release. In fact, they were just as impressed with the Mig-21 upgrades and the application of that aircraft in combat scenarios. … or so they told them.
(Editor)
{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
“The Su-30 acquisition would probably lead to the United States selling more advanced fighter-type aircraft as well as air defense systems to its allies in the region”
So it’s a win-win situation then…
I can’t believe this is still getting airtime… the idea that Russia could crank out 250 Su-30s on demand, and Iran could pay for them, is pure wankery. Look at the source on this story, it’s Likudnik disninformation.
I would find it more likely to be Lockheed/Martin disinformation to get more F-35 orders.
I’d never heard about the constraints imposed on the U.S. forces in that Cope India exercise. Funny how the U.S.A.F. and Lockheed Martin and the like skipped over *that* little detail, in their endless campaigns to hype The Threat. Thanks for the information, Mr. Polmar.
1. That Iran would aquire 250 SU-30 is nosense. The rumor was started by aviation week in Junde during the Paris Air show and rejuvinated late July by DEBKA, a Mossad site, just in time to justify the 30 billion gift of the U.S. taxpayer to Israel. From there Jerusalem Post picked up so it comes up in this blogs and others.
Both, the Iranians and the Russians have denied the deal. (BTW – those fighters + the tankers DEBKA peddled would 13 billion – not simply small change for Iran.)
For links to the sources proving the above you can look here:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2007/07/to-push-through.html
2. It’s nice to come up with numbers of fighters Iran is supposed to have. But how many of those are operational?
According to Global Security, the “mission capability” of the Iranian planes is between 25-80% depending on type.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/airforce-equipment.htm
The 65 F-4D/E are rated at 25% mission capable – i.e. they may get 17 into the air at all.
Same with the other numbers. Iran is anything but a “threat”.
This whole talk is without any fact base.
One might assume though it helps to sell more weapons and, if there is a chance, to get the hand on Iranian oil and gas reserves.
Good Morning Folks,
Yes, it’s that time of the year again, budget time in Congress and the U.S.A.F. wants to include 60, count em 60, F-22′s in the 07/08 FY Budget for about $6 Billion big ones.
The for hire scribes of the military/industrial complex are out in force to seperate the tax payers from their money. Lockheed Martin for only the price of a ride in the new $160 Million Marine 1 got this article penned. To read Mr. Polmar’s article one would think that Iraq has the Perrsian Luftwaffe, where are the Me-109′s and Me-262′s?
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
I have to agree with Mr. Polmar…. the Indian military is, sort of, a Russian military client, and one thing all 'sponsors' love is when a client gives a little feedback. One favorite tactic is to play dummy, and let the other guy fill in the blanks, and maybe show some stuff ya didn't have a clue about. Shall we say ' if'n you ain't a 1st world military, I ain't given you no clues I don't have to about certain equipment or it's capability, or other relevent information…. Doesn't matter how good an ally the subject is, certain info stays classified, period! I know of a certain tech school that will tell you off the record that its foreign students do not have the same degree type/authority?!?, I guess you call it with their degrees as American students, so I think My military is occasionally bright enough to not show ALL its cards….
Peace when you can, fight when you gotta
very good speech Mr. perry indians are rising high and your president know what indians are and their importance in the world that's why he came india for jobs….. and your talking about our russian deal so understand one thing we have sign some agreements with russia in 90's … so we are in contact with them and we spread love no hate …… we want to make deal with american's but but the conditions the american's put we are not comfortable with it ……. we deal with israel, russia, france and many more countries and america too …. america time has gone india and indians will be new super power and your politcian are agreeing with this ….
So, the F-15s didn’t use AESA or AMRAAMs in the Indian exercise? Anything else? Did they fly with hand or leg cuffs?
Funny we didn’t hear about any of that at the time. Hope it was due to OPSEC, and not fundraising efforts.
As for the Persian Luftwaffe, I’m skeptical too, but it seems if they can get even 40% of that flying circus of dissimilar types in the air, it could generate a lot of pure chaos. You’re talking a lot of different performance envelopes, there. Might be sort of hard to game out any particular battle plan, especially with their SAMs, AAA and MANPADS in the mix, too. Apart from the logistical penalties, the very sloppiness of the fleet mix might be a virtue. It’s hard to take down something so amorphous.
I mean, I’m sure the Puzzle Palace has been working on that, but it might not be so easy. You might want and think you need an overwhelming technological advantage. You might even want to buy certain things, and sell the Gulf States others.
I dont think the Iranians are able to field not more than 20% of the fleet during times of conflict and to sustain it all would be near impossible as round the clock operations would hamper more aircraft out of operations. On the SAM, i believe the Iranians would rely on this importantly especially the sophisticated S-300 missiles. As the purchase of 250 SU-30 Flankers, i believe the numbers are exagerated. Its more or less something like 30-40 SU-30s and possibly around 50-60 JF-10s and JF-17s from China. China would do anything to sell.
Though the current Iranian force is small, it still packs a punch that can inflict certain damage.
With regards to the Iranian possible purchase of SU-30 fighters might come in the way of via Syria. The Iranians have money that could be used to purchase weapons such as SU-30 on an emergency basis. A possible buy of between 30-40 fighters is on the horizon. This is why the US is studying the Indian SU-30 fighters, to carefully study the performance. Furthermore the Israelis may have taken the opportunity to work with the US and possibly took part in the air exercise disquised as US pilots with the Indians.
Its possible for the Iranian air force to improve,through the purchase of quality weapons such as electronically modified MIG-29/35, SU-30 and SU-35 and chinese fighters and continous fighter pilot training of min 160 hrs a year to earn proficiency. Continous tactics need to be developed, not using older technologies but with new technologies. AWACS is must.
I don’t think the Iranians wanted to buy the Su-30s due to its ability to reach Israel or other countries in the middle east. I believe they would use for long range board patrols as well as air defence of the long boarders especially with Iraq and Afghanistan as well as the seas. Why Su-30 is to operate on similar role to the F-14s. The Su-30s could be uses as a detterence. The world must remember that Iran is not Iraq. It is a country of pride and will power, as displayed during the Iran-Iraq war. Iranians Su-30s purchased via Syria would be equipped with a much longer range AA-12 Adder missiles, AA-11 Archer missiles as well as the ultra long range anti ship missiles. The Su-30s could carry around 3 of the large anti-ship missiles, with 3 aircraft aircraft being enough to wipe out a US aircraft carrier. Even with an Iranian SU-30s, the Allied force is able to wipe out the Iranian air force, though at a much heavier loss. Invasion of Iran is out of the order. A suicide for any country to do so.
hi i am fighter pilot of iranian air force.
hi behzad,i’m iranian boy,
they would be smarter buying the new chinese fighter they could get3+ for1
Regarding the cope air India excersize: The SU-30′s only won the excersize because of their advantage in numbers(3:1) and the fact that the American f-15′s were not using their electronically-scanned radar and did not simulate using the AIM-120 air to air missles. In short, the SU-30′s were able to use their most advanced weapon systems and radars while the f-15′s used their most basic technology. This “victory” is meaningless for the Indian airforce because the Americans let them win. If you put an equal amount of f-15′s against SU-30′s and each side was able to use all of their weapon systems and radar, the f-15′s would win, no doubt.
The report is half correct. Iran did consider the purchase but it found out that the export version of the SU-30 has inferior avionics and electronics to the domestic version. The one sold to India is the domesctic version and superior. Therefore, since the Iranian could not get the top of the line SU-30, they have canceled the order. The Iranian airforce is weak. If has only 5 F-14 NOT 25! Iran lacks advance planes with qualified pilots. Iranian pilots are no match to the Saudis and Israelis. Iran hopes is to obtain the nuclear bomb so that it can start to dictate and export its revolution. The Iranian economy is bankruped and it cash erserves has been depleated from $80 billion to only $12 billion. It can no longer afford to purchase military hardware from abroad.
Iran's Armforces are weak. It airforce has outdated planes, lack of advance pilot training and maintenance has made Iran's airforce a joke. Its transport planes fall off skies, hit mountains or apartment building. Iran defence system is poor. Its nuclear facilities are protected by rapier,Tor and AAA. Due to the size of the country, these defense system are few and can be defeated. Iran's naval forces are practicaly none existant. They relly on small speedboats carrying missiles with inferior speed. Iran posses 3 KIlo class Russian submarines that are in the shop due to repair nightmares. Iran only posses large army that is poorly trained. Hitting Iran's military targets posses little chalenge. Like Sadam's 'Forth largest army' Iran's armeforces is nothing but a cakewalk. It can be defeated in 30 days. However, Iran as a sponsor of terorism will posses challanges from accross the glob once it has been attacked.
wow..im so proud Iran choose su-30 mkm..Its Malaysian sukhoi version….
Let us not forget that the Iranistanians are Russian AND US trained. They know the tactics of the East and West. We have been in Iraqistan and Afghanistan for 10 years. I highly doubt that Iran will be a cake walk. Hello!
JJ The Fed