Got a great morning post item for DT fans sent to us by an alert reader yesterday. Unfortunately, other items nudged themselves in front of this one, but we thought wed better get it out sooner rather than later.
I know there are a lot of Iraq war skeptics reading this, but if ever there was more solid proof that those who criticize Iraq war coverage by the worlds mainstream press just might have a point, I dont know how better to distill it than with this picture…
Its an Agence France Press photo taken by Wissam al-Okaili whose caption reads:
An elderly Iraqi woman shows two bullets which she says hit her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City.
Uh, huh…these bullets hit her house during the raid. Our readers can certainly understand how that couldnt have been possible.
So why didnt an editor catch this obvious error? Well let DT readers reach their own conclusions on that one. Obviously some of the reporters, photogs and their editors either need to go to war coverage school or have their own ideas on how to portray conflict to the rest of us.
(Gouge to DT reader JH)
UPDATE: From DT reader “Wembly”…
PS The Getty site now shows:
CORRECTS BULLETS TO UNSPENT An elderly Iraqi woman holds up two unspent bullets at her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, 14 August 2007. US and Iraqi troops carried out massive assaults against Shiite militants, killing four in Baghdad’s volatile slum of Sadr City, and arresting several more across Iraq, the military said today. AFP PHOTO / WISSAM AL-OKAILI (Photo credit should read WISSAM AL-OKAILI/AFP/Getty Images)
Editor: Thanks for the new gouge, Wembley…
– Christian
{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
No no.. clearly those bullets could have hit her house…. a humvee taking a turn at high speed could have flung them out the back or through a window. You guys really lack imagination….
However.. the argument still remains why are they saying those bullets were fired at her when that’s clearly ‘unspent’ ammunition.
Looks like an obvious translation/communication error.
What’s interesting is how this caption has been picked up and spread so widely in an attempt to discredit the anti-war lobby.
I suspect there will be a lot more attention paid to the picture than to whether the woman’s house was actually hit by US fire.
in the age-old words of wikipedia *needs citation*
PS The Getty site now shows:
CORRECTS BULLETS TO UNSPENT An elderly Iraqi woman holds up two unspent bullets at her house following an early coalition forces raid in the predominantly Shiite Baghdad suburb of Sadr City, 14 August 2007. US and Iraqi troops carried out massive assaults against Shiite militants, killing four in Baghdad’s volatile slum of Sadr City, and arresting several more across Iraq, the military said today. AFP PHOTO / WISSAM AL-OKAILI (Photo credit should read WISSAM AL-OKAILI/AFP/Getty Images)
Perhaps the Army is taking over some insurgency tactics themselves: hand-throwing bullets like Palestanians throw rocks…
On the bright side: apparently the media-warfare skills of the insurgents are not as professional as we thought…
LoL Simm Good one!
“discredit the anti-war lobby”
and WHAT is wrong with that?
yep, DT readers know what they are looking at. I’ll bet you can tell me within 3 seconds from posting this comment exactly what cartridge and bullet I am looking at. Plus the factory that made it and the type of propellant used. Now think about all the news you read and believe on subjects you know as much of as the journalist on this newsitem…..
your 3 seconds are over.
Is this the same woman used by the Reporter that Photoshopped the bombings in Lebanon?
Look at the right hand bullet – it’s a fake!
The left hand one is being held by the woman.
I was just wondering why the right hand bullet was a different colour. Pretty obvious now that I can see it was edited in.
This image gets worse and more of a joke every time you look at it!
You are correct that much attention will be paid as to weather these rounds where spent or not than weather or not her house was hit. In some ways it’s too bad, cause if we could just get someone to go look at her house we would really know how full of it she is. Maybe her house was hit and she just doesn’t know better, saw unspent rounds on the ground and thought ‘these must be the ones that did the damage’. But what I suspect is going on is the same thing that happens all the time. She is lying completely and totally, her house was never hit by anything, she might have heard the fighting but that was about it. Then when the press showed up she made up a story to make the evil empire look bad.
Why are we so excited to see that? Cause lots of us know stuff like that happens all the time, but it’s hard to prove so it makes us feel good when we can call them on it.
It clearly demonstrates that what you see and what you read in the media should always be taken with a skeptical view.
Their first priority is to sell a story, not report ‘news’.
That many of them, including Getty ‘news’, deliver an anti-US message is not suprising.
What would have the photo portrayed without the caption? You see my friends, the photo and the accompanying caption are a ‘story’, not news.
Eric – After more than three seconds: The bullet on the left is a 5.56 NATO (or US .22), used in the extended M-16 family. If that doesn’t satisfy you, search Google, like any decent journalist should before publishing, or punch up ’5.56 NATO’ c.q. ‘.22 M-16′ in Wikipedia.
Vstress – Agree, the right hand round looks like a photoshop product. So Eric, that;s the brand and maker.
Cenobyte – That’s a bit heavyhanded, my dear. Inagine you yourself picking up a .22, spent or not, in front of your house, as I recently did. It certainly makes you look at your ‘hood in a very different way, to put it mildly! I went around to all the neighbors with it: had to warn them, right? And, had there been a photographer around, I most certainly would have had a similar pic made and published, please gawd yes! — this in Amsterdam, the Netherlands!!!
The Photographer Wissam al-Okaili also came up with this suspicious bullet on http://www.snappedshot.com/categories/9-Misinformation
(sorry about the ugly way of showing the info)
This pic could be used to support other arguments.
How about this caption:
“I thought I was going to die in the shooting but then, thank Allah, the American M4s jammed and they were forced to throw the bullets at us”.
Wembly
I cannot agree with your first post. This item represents one of the best things about blogs. Deceptions that would have been successful not long ago are now being rooted out and their perpetrators discredited. The abusive manipulation of information should not be tolerated no matter how frivolous that abuse may seem. Cheers to those that track down the truth!
“Look at the right hand bullet – it’s a fake!
The left hand one is being held by the woman.
I was just wondering why the right hand bullet was a different colour. Pretty obvious now that I can see it was edited in.
This image gets worse and more of a joke every time you look at it!” – Vstress
I totally agree. I noticed that when I first saw it too….
The 2nd bullet (to the right closest to her head) has been washed out in photoshop. Other indications that this picture is fake:
1) It looks like a man’s hand.
2) washed out bullet
3) Little or no reflection from the hand on the bullet
4) The 2nd bullet (on the right closest to her head) is at such an angle it should fall out of her hand
5) The hand is positioned in such a way that it covers the shoulder thus adding to the fact that I think the hand is also photoshoped in.
6) Try matching your head, hand and arm to match her position.. it doesn’t feel natural. Do you think a 60 y/o Iraq could hold their arm out like that?
7) Given the light source on the right side of the photo (glare on her face) then the left side of the 2nd bullet (right bullet… i.e. closest to her face) there should be some sort of ‘shading’ on the back side of the 2nd bullet
8) I don’t know bullets.. but I’m will to bet those unspent cartridges a disproportionate to the length of her finger
I would have posted this sooner.. but I only glanced at the picture and laughed at the story.
“translation error”?
Probably not, considering that the photographer has submitted similar photos using the same woman on previous occasions. See:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/busted-another-bogus-sadr-city-bullet.html
As another reader pointed out, there’s a consistent pattern of fabrication going on in Middle East reporting. A big part of the problem is that a lot of the reporting on the ground is being done by local stringers who are partisans of one side or the other.
This results in phony stories and Photoshopped images.
Those are unused cartridges. There is no way the bullets would have the case and the primer on it… Its fake…
“What’s interesting is how this caption has been picked up and spread so widely in an attempt to discredit the anti-war lobby.”
Please Wembly-what’s interesting is how pro-terrorist propagandist like yourself are so eager to jump in and spread that disinformation!
This women hold 2 shells, OBVIOUSLY unspent. So either she’s a LIAR or the photographer was a LIAR. Either way – how come their is no “Correction” that includes an explanation?!?
Why is this women holding the rounds?
Why did this “photographer” submit nearly the same image in July-with the nearly the same incorrect caption?
He’s posing shots!
Those rounds are the wrong shape and size for 7.62, but they aren’t color-tipper like 5.56 either.
They are likely commercial 55-grain civilian ammo-so how do we even know they are American?!?
It’s really sad-that people say this is being used to discredit the anti-war lobby. They have no credibility-just like most journalists, they have sooooo much in common.
I know the Dems believe they are real! Oh no, we better cut and run, they got magical bullets that can be reused without gun powder or weapons. Their so magical their two completely different rounds. It’s too bad we can’t try these lying news reporters with treason!
I know the Dems believe they are real! Oh no, we better cut and run, they got magical bullets that can be reused without gun powder or weapons. Their so magical their two completely different rounds. It’s too bad we can’t try these lying news reporters with treason!
You folks are missing a key element in the story. This originated on the AFP, the French wire service. To a Frenchman these may appear to be “spent” rounds, having fell out of a magazine when the gun was dropped – once.
Sorry to retread an old joke, but the connection was too much to resist.
The writers are just as truthful as this administration it’s notorious lying leader and his cronies. It is shameful to have this man as a leader. Oh by the way, I served in two wars including this trumped up war based on lies.
Veteran who is p…ed.
The writers are just as truthful as this administration and it’s notorious lying leader and his cronies. It is shameful to have this man as a leader. Oh by the way, I served in two wars including this trumped up war based on lies.
Veteran who is p…ed.
Hey “Larry” are you from Hollywood
“The writers are just as truthful as this administration and it’s notorious lying leader and his cronies. It is shameful to have this man as a leader. Oh by the way, I served in two wars including this trumped up war based on lies.
Veteran who is p…ed.
Posted by: Larry at August 17, 2007 07:36 AM”
Larry-We know he didn’t lie. If he lied then so did the UN, the leaders of Britain and France and most of the Democratic party. That being said, mistakes were made.
As a fellow veteran-an 11B who ran around West Baghdad in 2004-2005, I understand your unhappiness, but lying about people after the fact just further clouds the issue.
By the way AFP, who marketed these images are now trying to sell images taken by Army photographers.
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/237348.php
I’m not an expert about all weapons , but it is possible .
A mini gun (6 or 8 barreled) gattling type firearm capable of firing 6000-8000 rounds per minute will eject a shell that did not fire (they are built that way so they don’t jam) .
The weapon is so heavy and requires hyralics that it can not be carried or fired by hand and must be mounted to a tank, heavy vehicle or aircraft or something heavy and solid because that many bullets comming out so fast , the recoil would probably push 8-12 large men backwards and they could not control it by hand.
I still doubt the credibility of the womans story because she is holding two totally different caliber bullets in her hand .
The bullet on the left looks like a 308 win. that we may be using but I’m not sure .
Altho the bullet on the right ??? Not sure what it is but I really doubt that it came from a mini gun because of its shape (lack of taper at the front of the case shoulder) probably wouldn’t feed properly in a mini gun .
Sounds like a person trying to shut down our sportsmans shooting ranges (even the we were there decades before he built his house).
He took a bullet to the sheriff and said it came thru his home walls , barely missing him .
Upon inspection …the “bullet” was a round ball fired from a black powder gun .
The ball/bullet was deformed and had sand embeded in it also 2-3 years corrosion .
Turns out he he dug it out of one of our sand backstops then drilled holes in his walls to make it look as tho the bullet hit the house .
Authorities would not give us the projectile to counter sue …go figure .
Sorry for getting of the subject but I hope the info above helps explain what may or may not have happened as far as the womans story (and I don’t believe her story for a minute).
I really don’t think she did it for publicity … Think maybe she just wants it all to end (just like any of us would) and maybe hoped it would some how make all the fighters look bad so the world community would put pressure on to bring it the war to an end .
(SUPPORT OUR TROOPS)
the rounds she is holding is a .223 m.m./ 5.56 cal from the m-16 or m-4 and a mini will jam but since they redid it from the g.e. one, but they almost never do jam now. the only way is that those rounds jamed got cleard out and she picked them up or the soilder droped them and did not want to put them in is mag for fear that the sand would jam his service rifle!!!!!! and if im not mistaken the mini shoot a 7.62. and thats way to small to be a mini round!!!! so this fine lady is a lyer and a worthless person, thanks for lie when our guys are trying to save your country.
The history of the race, and each individual’s experience, are thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and a lie well told is immortal. ( attrib Mark Twain)… i rely on my experiece to indicate that this woman is part of the real conspiracy of lies which sees the death of any american soldier as a victory.
Hey of course we threw that bullet at her house. The Air Force sends C-130′s up with pallets of em and throws them out the back as they fly around.
DM
YOU HAVE SOME REAL SMART PEOPLE IN HERE!!!! First you have Mr. Gorman who says, “jamed, cleard, soilder, droped…”
Then you got Lynn going off on a tangent about mounted weapons and claims that the two rounds are different and OBVIOUSLY not from a mounted weapon…. THE ROUNDS ARE THE SAME, the light tends to play funny tricks. But Lynn was right, she is NOT a weapons expert. Plus that discharged round thing does not discharge through the barrel!!!! It would be nice if bad rounds did but they simply don’t…. But, wouldn’t want her to get ‘of’ the subject!!!! DAMN THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO SHIT!!!!!
What do you expect from the french? We saved their country once so now mabey we should just ship all of the terrorists to france and call it repayment of the debt to the US.
As for you chicken s*** yellow bas****** who want to bash the current leadership of our nation that is your right as an American (if in fact you are American). And congress has said that I have to respect your right to burn your flag in protest, but, they also said that you have to respect MY right to bear arms, and if you burn MY flag I’ll blow your ass off.
AMERICA, Put your heart in it or get your ass out.
Sorry, hatas, it’s not anti-war propaganda, or treason, or something to do with the French. It’s just that 98 percent of the journalists I’ve ever known or worked with in the past 22 years don’t know shit about firearms or ammunition, and the people who write photo captions know even less.
Shooters, too, are often guilty of imprecision in language. For example, who hasn’t said : “I gotta get to wal-mart/the gun shop and get me some bullets before we go to the range tomorrow.”; or, asking someone what kind of bullet someone used to get a deer and being satisfied with “.308″ as an answer. I almost
Lots of good comments about the rounds, but where are the pictures of her house? Not that I would believe the story with such a picture. Reporters are liars. Foreign reporters are spawn of demons.
Lets play the “invent a caption” game. How about this.
“Proud muslim woman holds two rounds found after her son bravely martyrs himself while blowing up a humvee filled with infidels from the great Satan.”
I’m ready to nuke every muslim country, and send the survivors to France. (The next time Germany attacks France, we should let them have it.)
Since the “lefties” are again including their rants against Bush, I will include my own standard comment.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE MUSLIM!
Respect and understanding be damned! Theirs is the only religion on the planet that commands its followers to behead everyone else. It’s not just a few “radicals” misreading the Koran. ITS IN THE KORAN 106 TIMES.
The world’s willful ignorance of Islam really gets me going.
and now back to the main story . . .
The caption for this image has had at minimum three different captions. And each time the caption tells a radically different story. The first time I saw the pic all it talked about was a truck bomb and bullets that hit her house. It made it sound like those were terrorist bullets and not US bullets. My first thought was “wait, terrorists don’t generally shoot 5.56mm. Also, why are those two bullets different colors?”
Just a quick comment on Jeff’s ‘THERE IS NO SAFE MUSLIM’ comment…
I lived in Malaysia (where Islam is the state religion) for several years and I continue to travel there on business and pleasure.
The notion that all Muslims are a threat to the West because of Islam is hogwash. The far majority of Muslims in Malaysia (and Indo, for that matter) want a peaceful life and have the same aspirations we ‘westerners’ do. They are not an existential threat to us.
We need to focus on identifying the extremists that mean us harm and not classify all Muslims as the enemy. That kind of thinking is not going to get us very far in a world of 1+ billion Muslims.
One can argue whether Islam is a religion that can peacefully co-exist with other religions, but to mark all individuals that practice it as threats to our existence is a mistake.
We have to realize that our foreign policy positions also have an effect on Muslim views toward the West. Although I don’t agree with parts of it, but the book ‘Imperial Hubris’ can help frame the current Muslim view of the West fairly well.
I’d like to add that the bullets she is showing are not even the kind of bullets American soldiers use (there bullets have the tips painted a specific color– usually orange or green).