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Home » Uncategorized » Reach Out to Touch Someone — Really Fast

Reach Out to Touch Someone — Really Fast

Getting weapons on tar­get, at least get­ting a con­ven­tional weapon on tar­get, has usu­ally involved a deliv­ery plat­form that includes an air­craft or a missile/​rocket engine that is lim­ited in speed, range, time of flight and/​or pay­load and usu­ally involves a some­what lengthy plan­ning process to exe­cute the mis­sion.
AMISSILE_P1.jpgThe Air Force (and the Navy in an unre­lated pro­gram) are look­ing at speed­ing up that weapon deliv­ery process by look­ing at a scram­jet pow­ered weapon that can achieve speeds up to Mach 6.5 or more than 4,000 miles per hour.
This sort of future capa­bil­ity could result in a sig­nif­i­cant change in the “time-​​critical strike” realm where a tar­get of impor­tance is iden­ti­fied and needs to be taken out in the short­est pos­si­ble time. “Targets of oppor­tu­nity” that intel­li­gence assets find are becom­ing more and more preva­lent in this 21st cen­tury bat­tle­space, espe­cially the ephemeral front that makes up the cur­rent war on ter­ror­ism
Having a capa­bil­ity to exe­cute either a long range strike in min­utes or to have this capa­bil­ity in the­ater rather than take the many hours it would take in the tra­di­tional strike-​​planning arena would be a change for the good. Further, hav­ing to main­tain air­borne strike plat­forms that many times include myr­iad sup­port ele­ments (tank­ing, air­borne early warn­ing, threats of enemy air defenses, etc) can be min­i­mized with this abil­ity to reach out and touch some­one from afar in a rel­a­tively short time and adds a sig­nif­i­cant strike option to the Joint Force Commander’s tool kit.

“Faster is always bet­ter in air power,” says Brig. Gen. Jim Poss, the Air Force’s direc­tor of intel­li­gence for its Air Combat Command at Langley Air Force Base, Va. “What we’ve found from com­bat expe­ri­ence is that peo­ple real­ize very quickly you have to move to sur­vive on the mod­ern bat­tle­field. And the best way to counter that is to get there with the appro­pri­ate weapon in the appro­pri­ate size very quickly.”

From the Christian Science Monitor, read the whole arti­cle here.
–Pinch Paisley

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August 17th, 2007 | Uncategorized | 368412 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2007/08/17/reach-out-to-touch-someone-really-fast/Reach+Out+to+Touch+Someone+-+Really+Fast2007-08-17+14%3A54%3A51murdoc You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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  1. j house says:
    August 17, 2007 at 10:41 am

    It is some­times the deci­sion cycle time­line, not the time of flight, that deter­mines whether a tar­get can be suc­cess­fully attacked using per­ish­able intel­li­gence to deter­mine when to strike.
    For exam­ple, the case that argues for this tech­nol­ogy is historical-​​striking Bin Ladin’s camps from the Red and Arabian seas with SLCM’s back in the 90’s.Time of flight is greatly increased with sub­sonic munitions.Time to tar­get with scram­jet may be reduced by a fac­tor of ten.However, in many cases it was the slow deci­sion mak­ing process that also hin­dered these types of oper­a­tions, not time of flight…senior level NSC dis­cus­sions, pres­i­den­tial author­i­ties, etc.
    It could be hours before a strike was autho­rized and exe­cuted. Far too much latency to try and fix and kill a mov­ing tar­get like Bin Laden.
    Armed UAV’s can be much bet­ter plat­forms, depend­ing on the sit­u­a­tion– ‘eyes’ on the tar­get, ‘see and shoot’ deci­sion cycle (with proper author­i­ties), etc.
    The real power of the speed of this weapon is it is hard to defend against and prob­a­bly doesn’t even need a war­head in some cases because of the kinetic energy and mass involved…you have a much shorter reac­tion time to acquire, fix and kill incom­ing mis­siles.
    Ships are sit­ting ducks.

    Reply
  2. j house says:
    August 17, 2007 at 10:53 am

    A good recent exam­ple for the time to strike/​decision cycle process was the B1 attack on the al-Sa’ah restau­rant in Baghdad in an attempt to take out Saddam in April ’04.
    It was reported that it took only 12 min­utes for the B1 crew to launch the attack from the time they received the ‘go’ noti­fi­ca­tion. We do not know how long it took the WH/​CIA/​DOD to make the deci­sion for the go-​​ahead from the time the (bad)intel was received, but hav­ing the B1 on sta­tion greatly reduced the time to attack.
    Better to be near the strike zone when you want to reach out and touch someone.

    Reply
  3. Group W says:
    August 17, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    j house,
    A small but pos­si­bly impor­tant detail, I

    Reply
  4. ohwilleke says:
    August 17, 2007 at 7:03 pm

    1. We already have the super­cruise F-​​22 which can depart from a land base. And, unless you can launch this scram­jet from an air­craft car­rier, a cruise mis­sile from a destroyer or an F-​​18 launched from a car­rier to the des­ti­na­tion is still going to be com­pet­i­tive with 4,000 miles an hour from the near­est land base.
    If a car­rier can get to within 1,000 miles, and the near­est land base is 4,000 miles, the ben­e­fits are pretty mar­ginal.
    2. How much of a per unit cost is worth 45 or less extra min­utes? This looks at least as involved as an F-​​35A, will it cost a sim­i­lar amount?
    3. The fighter mafia always makes a big deal about Human 1.0 deter­min­ing if a tar­get is appro­pri­ate. Most of the time, I dis­agree with that propo­si­tion. But, time crit­i­cal tar­gets are tar­gets where human judg­ment is par­tic­u­larly rel­e­vant. How do you abort this weapon if the tar­get becomes a “no go” three-​​quarters of the way there?
    4. A weapon like this seems to be con­ceived with a big pay­load from a long dis­tance. But, most time-​​critical strikes are in inhab­ited places where you want a small pay­load to hit just the intended tar­gets. This is behind the small diam­e­ter bomb con­cept.
    Wouldn’t it make more sense to have many, much shorter range weapons much closer to time crit­i­cal tar­gets. Isn’t this what the armed Predator and the Excalibur ammu­ni­tion round are sup­posed to do?
    Realistically, deliv­er­ing muni­tions with lit­tle notice is not some­thing that is diplo­mat­i­cally pos­si­ble in 90% of the world at any given time, and is con­ceiv­ably nec­es­sary in only a mod­est por­tion of the world where it would be diplo­mat­i­cally pos­si­ble to make a strike. In two big por­tions of the strik­able world (Iraq and Afganistan, and the imme­di­ate Iranian and Pakistani bor­der regions), a short range, small pay­load approach would be com­pa­ra­ble in desir­abil­ity to a long range, large pay­load, high speed deliv­ery from the near­est land base that can han­dle the issue.
    Likewise, almost all of the plau­si­ble tar­gets in Africa and the Arabian Penninsula (e.g. Somolia and Yemen) are close to shore­lines where U.S. ships could be, and usu­ally are sta­tioned.
    Before we invent some more extremely expen­sive super­fast weapons, we should invent some fast but sub­sonic ways to move heavy divi­sions into place.

    Reply
  5. Roy Smith says:
    August 17, 2007 at 11:19 pm

    The Russians & the Chinese both have mis­siles that can go Mach 2.5 & the Russians & Indians are work­ing together on a mis­sile that can go Mach 3.These are mainly anti-​​ship mis­siles like the Sunburn mis­sile & the Chinese C-​​801/​802 missile.The Sunburn can be tipped with a nuclear warhead.Before peo­ple ques­tion how effec­tive these mis­sile are,if the U.S. Navy would have shot an “acquired” Sunburn mis­sile at the U.S.S. America instead of blow­ing holes in its sides with TNT,maybe we would know how effec­tive the Sunburn really is.Well we have seven more chances to find out what the Sunburn really can do(the Forrestal Carriers(4),the Constellation,the Kitty Hawk,& the JFK) or are we just going to blow holes in the sides of them with TNT also?

    Reply
  6. Duck_Shooter says:
    August 20, 2007 at 9:23 am

    This is another one of those won­der­ful capa­bil­i­ties des­per­ately in need of a require­ment.
    Yes, it would sure be nice to be able to reach out and touch some­one quickly — but as we know from recent expe­ri­ence, we’re not there yet on fig­ur­ing out WHO needs touch­ing, let alone how to go about it. The anti-​​terrorist jus­ti­fi­ca­tion for this capa­bil­ity is sorely lack­ing. We have many other ways to get at ter­ror­ists; we need to get much bet­ter at find­ing them first.
    I could, how­ever, rea­son­ably be pur­suaded to con­sider this capa­bil­ity for use in mis­sile defense — tak­ing out threat weapons before they can launch. In this case, we DO tend to have action­able intel­li­gence on when and where a SCUD or other weapon is being fueled and read­ied for launch. Ballistic mis­sile loca­tions tend to be known, espe­cially sta­tic launch sites.
    As it is, though, the tech­nol­ogy is quite imma­ture. I con­sider a hyper-​​velocity mis­sile to be a truly “bal­anced” weapon: it is equally unaf­ford­able in both guid­ance AND propul­sion! As such, our spend­ing on this needs to be com­men­su­rate with that fact — it’s going to take us a long time to make this a mil­i­tar­ily use­ful capability.

    Reply
  7. goofy_goober says:
    August 20, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    i think he best way to find the ter­ror­ists is to tag em with the same gps locater you put in your dog then set em free. theyre gonna go straight to their buddies.…then…whammo. “what the hell just hit us?!?!?!!!”

    Reply
  8. Roy Smith says:
    August 22, 2007 at 10:46 am

    Supersonic cruise mis­siles that can sink ships already​.To deny their exis­tence is like deny­ing that the Soviet Union launched Sputnik. Our anti-​​ship mis­siles are SLOW​.So are France’s & Britain’s. Taiwan is sup­posed to have a super­sonic missile,but since we are try­ing to sell them out to China,I guess thats one more mis­sile on the OTHER side.Lets see super­sonic cruise/​anti-​​ship missiles:Russia,check;China,check;India,check;
    IRAN,check;USA,nope;Britain,nope;France,nope;
    Taiwan,check-oh wait we’re giv­ing her back to China.

    Reply
  9. Group W says:
    August 22, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Ummm, hold on a minute.
    I am rea­son­ably sure of the fol­low­ing
    1) Hypersonic flight via scram­jet propul­sion can only occur at high alti­tude, not sea level (where ships can usu­ally be found)
    2) This would then make this plat­form prac­ti­ca­ble for long range tar­gets only.
    3) The ter­mi­nal stages of the flight could not be hyper­sonic due to air den­sity (heat/​drag et al). So a war­head would still be needed to max­i­mize deliv­ery of energy.
    2 cents worth, keep the change!

    Reply
  10. RightWingNutter says:
    August 25, 2007 at 5:19 pm

    Just spec­u­lat­ing on some num­bers here…
    The oper­a­tional ver­sion of this crit­ter might be mounted on a B-​​52 or fired from a cruiser at sea. Assume that the point of launch is 1500 miles from the tar­get. That’s about 18 min­utes flight time. Assume 2 min­utes to altitude/​speed sea launched, 1 minute air launched, so add a minute more or less. The thing will have to curve down and decel­er­ate as it approaches the tar­get, but not too much I think. The scram­jet should be able to keep thrust­ing down to the 80-​​100K ft level. The muz­zle veloc­ity of Abrams sabot is low hyper­sonic now, so the war­head should be able to stay at Mach 3 or bet­ter to impact. Therefore the descent and final approach curve should add no more than 30 sec­onds.
    So from the go to launch well out to sea over the Indian Ocean to impact some­where near Tora Bora is about 20 min­utes.
    Even if picked up on radar, by the time one has a clue where the mis­sile is going there isn’t much time to get the tar­get warned and out of there.

    Reply

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