Defense Tech and Military.com contributor Norman Polmar has posted a new article here on a recent large-scale military exercise involving Chinese and Russian troops.
Read his post below, but stick around for some perspective from a Defense Tech reader who goes by Ruger and follows this issue closely. Ruger sent us his analysis of the exercise a few days before Normans post, and we thought it appropriate to include it now for conversations sake.
Norman first
A historic military exercise with China and Russia as well as four other nations participating has come to an end. Known as Peace Mission 2007, the exercise was sponsored by the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), which consists of China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.
Peace Mission 2007 began on August 9, and was conducted in Urumqi, the capital of China’s Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, and subsequently in Chelyabinsk. The emphasis of the maneuvers was to defeat an international terrorist organization that was attempting to overturn a friendly government. Some 4,000 troops and 80 aircraft from the participating nations took part in the exercise.
The historic exercise, which involved forces from all six SCO nations, was considered an important step in exchanges between those nations as well as enhancing the capabilities of their armed forces to counter terrorists and to promote regional security and stability.
The exercise was particularly significant for Chinas Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) with the Chinese troops being transported to the operational area by rail and by air. It was the first time that PLA forces carried out a large-scale and long-distance movement. The rail distance, through Chinese and Russian territory, was some 6,400 miles wile the air distances was 1,700 miles.
China had 1,600 PLA troops participating in the exercise with fighter and bomber aviation units, airborne units, transport units, special purpose units, armored units, and Army aviation units taking part. The rail transportation effort for the PLA included more than 120 vehicles and 500 tons of munitions and equipment for the exercise.
Now Rugers follow
Dubbed as Peace Mission 2007 and is developing into a counter-balance to the US, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) has been responding to the geopolitical situation in Europe, Asia and the rest of the world. Former Soviet republic made repeated attempts to streamline integration by setting up different associations, but they were not destined to live for many reasons. Experts are unanimous that the SCO is a success. source: Moscow, Russia (RIA Novosti) Aug 16, 2007…
The Peace Mission 2007 is taking place in western Russia and is aimed at four key operations, according to PLA Senior Col. Lu Chuangang, chief of the command group of the Chinese exercise directorate.
These areas include long-distance mobility of forces by rail and aircraft, joint operations with six nations; precision engagement using high-technology attack capabilities; and long-distance integrated military support operations.
This is the first time that the PLA conducts a large scale and long-distance transnational force delivery involving different branches of the armed forces in a systematic way, Lu told Xinhua. The one-way distance of railway transportation is 10,300 kilometers and air flight distance is about 2,700 kilometers. source: Peoples Daily online July 31, 2007
So, success is measured by how long a train ride one takes (do the math)? It was reported that Azerbijan wouldn’t allow the China troops to traverse its country.
The Chinese, Russians and the anti-US crowd are touting the SCO Peace Mission 2007 as a success. If you look at the measurement of success from the Chinese General (Col), it sounds (to me) like he is trying to polish a turd. They did not purposely try to exercise long distance logistics (Chinese troops were not permitted to travel through neighboring country, so they had to go around).
Secondly, the PLA Air force flew a third of the distance the PLA had to move its troops. Success in long distance logistics by western standards (which is really their standard now) would have been realized by moving the 5000+ PLA troops by air. Hence the phrase: putting lipstick on pig.
Alright folks, I honestly dont follow this that closely, so what do you think big deal, or no big deal?
– Christian
...
Good Morning Folks,
I’ve been following this some what less the robust, Exercise involving Russia and China, In seem more like the friendly jousting at a Renaissance Fair then a legitmate Military Exercise. Lets see both countries provided Battalion size units that participated in WWF like scripted games.
Hey at least it provided Putin a chance to wear his military duds and fly around in his “pimped” up helicopter. I wonnder of they served Fried Oreos, Fried Snickers Bars and Corn Dogs?
The question must be ask, why are these Russian PR stunts, that are designed for domestic consumption leading up to the 08 Russian elections taken seriously by anybody?
Far more robust battalion size training exercises take place weekly at Ft. Irwin Ca. where the 11th. Cav. humbles Iraq bound units.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Remember “The Graduate”, with Dustin Hoffman?
The classic line of lines in the movie was:
“Invest in plastics, son…“
Well the Pentagon is heavily invested in the petrochemical industry, and monitoring/countering the SCCO/Russian/China alliance is only one front in that ‘investment’.
The other front is the Bering Strait, where the Russian ‘Bison’s are quite busy testing the U.S.‘s ability to defend: OIL LEASES
From Anchorage Daily News, Alaska:
It is disputed whether the exercise was a military, logistical success. It is also in dispute whether it was a realistic simulation of what it purported to simulate.
Regardless of those uncertainties, the meaning of the SCO maneuver is not ambiguous. Apparently the world is not content to watch an increasingly desperate, ineffectual America expand its sphere of hegemony. Apparently, these nations (which own us, by way of our debt) are not interested in letting our assertions of power go unanswered.
Is this path of conflict good for any involved? Have we not a responsibility to engage the other powers peacefully?
I think we learned flares and bombs are distracting, and Putin forgot to read the chapter Sun Tzu wrote about deception.
While everyone is focused on military exercises, China inked pipeline deals with Kazakhstan and Tajikistan in cold hard cash, effectively changing the balance of power in central Asia away from Russia and firmly with China.
Simply brilliant if you ask me, the military exercise served its purpose marvelously, from a Chinese perspective anyway. It brings land power back as a focus for China, its traditional mastery, reducing the need for China to hurry on its maritime modernization.
That this represents chinas greatest logistical acchievement says alot about how inflexible their cold war forces trully were. That they are now seeing this vulnerability through this excersize is most likely just the first step in the solution.
China’s recent military program has concentrated on replacing delapidated equipment with new “just one step behind the americans’ grade technology. Using this strategy they are amassing a large and very potent force on a relatively modest budget. This is probably good Maths if your planning to go to war on a purely cost/kill ratio.
(as an aside the belief that in a protracted war it is $/kill ratio and not simply kill ratio that counts is a strong argument against the few dozen stealth aircraft in existance, the small number of ultra tech destroyers being launched and the entirity of the future combat program)
*anyway back onto topic*
If china is able to walk away from this military excersize with a realisation of the massive importance of modern logistics then it is one of the most succesful excersizes of recent times.
After all the best thing that can happen in a war games is a disaster, so you can avoid the same when lives are at stake.
Matt, lighten up man. No army on the planet has any interest is facing the US anytime in the next half century at least. Besides, even if anyone thought they had a prayer they would never want to declare war with a tier 1 nation. The obvious nuclear deterrent aside, it would be economic suicide. We are all dependant on each other. We need China and China needs us. Heck, if Wal Mart were a country it would be China’s eighth largest trading partner.
This exercise was not meant to threaten the US/NATO. There is no path to conflict. We engage each other peacefully so consistently and deeply that peace for the foreseeable future is virtually assured. The United States is not desperate or ineffectual.
Do not make the mistake of reading too deeply into our difficulties in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have managed to fight two simultaneous conflicts half way around the world while maintaining a force in reserve capable of destroying any other army on Earth. We have done that with an all volunteer army and nary a change in the normal American citizen’s day to day existence. Economically and culturally America’s world dominance is intact as well. People may not like the idea of America in Iraq, but they are still buying cokes, eating McDonald’s, and lapping up Hollywood’s latest wares. That is not hubris and I do not think there is anything especially great about it, but that is how it is. Personally I look forward to the maturation of Europe, Russia, and China as great powers. Maybe then we will have some fully viable partners in handling the world’s troubles.
WHEN the entire mid-east goes bad.…after Iran goes nuke, WHEN Israel and Saudi Arabia are involved, WHEN the Persian Gulf is either truly closed or effectively closed, and 20% of the oil that the economies of the U.S., Europe, Japan,Korea,etc. are unavailable.…
THEN, the oil pipelines and new asian oil fields that run through the SOC countries will be a natural target for the “west”.
For Russia and China to take a peek at what needs they will have to secure those, or, to fight over them with each other.…is far seeing.
oh, and rail vs. air transport? rail is sure, air is dependant upon to many factors to ensure success.….and you still need boots on the ground.
long picture and bottom line: this was a very good and highly meaningful “excersise”; one that the world better take note of.
It’s going to bite us in the butt, badly.
I have a different take on this than others…
Just like a child taking his first steps, China is now embarking on the path to true “Expeditionary Warfare”. Transporting five thousand troops 10,000 miles would tax even the US Transportation Command.
To just dismiss this as a PR stunt seems inappropriate as well if we are to take the recent actions by the Russians into account. A Bear Bomber was intercepted by Typhoons in the North Sea recently…strategic planning is taking place and I wonder if anyone is paying attention.
Hey Folks,
I think many of you have very good observations.
But lets cut to the chase; what does this mean for the one situation that would get us into war with China tommorow?
The invasion of Tiawan.
Is China just shoring up its rear, so they can sieze the prize?
Many of you will think that is foolish due to our economic ties, but you forget that the country is not run by people who are beholden to the economy like our representatives are.
In a few years, they may think that if they grab Tiawan fast and hard enough, we will just let our sixth largest trading partner switch hands if they keep trading with us.….
Far out thoughts? Maybe.
But if they did do it right now, what would we do about it.….We are spread way thin.
Sorry, riding a choo choo through friendly territory does not make the expeditionary warfare team in my eyes. True reach means airlift, and in Iraq its clear ground convoys through hostile territory are a bad call, hence the intra theater airlift issue. It lists 120 vehicles but 500 tons of stores? Hardly sounds like enough to sustain any kind of serious operation for any time frame for 120 combat vehicles. Walmart has better logistics.
»> Well the Pentagon is heavily invested in the petrochemical industry…
Seriously, how do you moonbats dream this stuff up? The Pentagon is heavily invested in the petrochemical industry?
»> the world is not content to watch an increasingly desperate, ineffectual America expand its sphere of hegemony. Apparently, these nations (which own us, by way of our debt) are not interested in letting our assertions of power go unanswered.
So, let me get this straight: the US is both desperate and ineffectual but somehow we are also a global hegemon. And countries that “own us” have to fear our assertions of power. Do you see that contradictions in your logic, or do I have to point them out?
And weren’t you supposed to say something about the Trilateral Commission?
Sheesh.
I think alot of people are overblowing what this means. It shows that China can cooperate, that Russia is willing to cooperate, but that the former USSR states aren’t really hot on China still. I think we can all agree that moving a couple thousand PLA by train is a pretty mediocre accomplishment, I mean that’s really the easiest deployment challenge that could be asked for. It also shows that their airlift is *not* up to capacity, at least in any way they want to show… Which is ostentably part of the reason to do these things.
You gotta love the Chinese hyperbole though. I want to see a sketch comedy between say a pair of Chinese and British military officers.
Brit: WW2 was a bit of a scuffle
Chinese: We built a boat! The gods have shined their glory upon our nation!
Brit: Did you see Normandy? I’ll tell you what that one had us proper kippered.
Chinese: We have built a missle! Do not anger us, for it might accidentally launch and… BLOW UP THE MOON. We’ve thought about it.
lol.
The big concern everyone should have isn’t how good this operation went this time, but the fact they are cooperating and learning. Most won’t consider this a threat, but with Russia and China both increasing thier military budgets significantly it is only a mater of time and practice until they improve thier logistics to match or surpass ours. One thing that was omitted from this was the fact that Russian as apart of this exercise started flying it’s Stratigic bombers all over the Atlantic, Pacific, and the Arctic again, and some of those Bombers came very close to US and NATO territory. Don’t count the bear and the dragon out yet. BTW the info I got about the Stratigic bomber flights was on military.com. check it out.
That China wants to co-train with any nation is not a real suprise, that it is not a mission of the state and defense departments of the U.S. to make that nation the U.S.A is too bad.
Thomas P. M. Barnett has made the case, brilliantly, that we should be putting the arm of an “older brother” (my words) around China and show them how to carry that big stick.
A natural outgrowth of Chinas exploding economy is to want / need to flex some muscle. I agree with Barnett’s assessment that we should direct that muscle flexing in the area of securing the middle east, battling global terror and ensconsing China as the head of an Asian “N.A.T.O”. Give them a stake in the free flow of oil at market price.
America will be moving from an oil dependant nation to clean hydrogen and nuclear fuels in the coming decades, give China the responsibility of securing the oil fields of Arabia, see their national pride renewed, and make a partner of the most populist nation on the face of the planet in the G-WOT.
The long-range goal of the Chinese is to regain Taiwan once they have the naval capacity for a landing. At the same time of the Taiwan invasion, the Chinese will try to secure the oil fields in the middle east. Most people in the U.S. do not realize the Chinese have a 200 million man militia that will form the PLA’s military once activated. Already the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Rand Corporation have stated that once China makes its’ military move, the West will loose the Pacific Rim nations, including South Korea. The U.S. no longer has the capacity to fight and win a two front war as the leadership after WWII envisioned. The Stock Market drove investors into China as it was the last vestige for vast wealth as labor and manufacturing costs did not include employee protection (Unions and OSHA) and manufacturing (OSHA/EPA) overhead costs. Eighty five cents of every dollar vestsd into Chinese manufacturing goes into the Cbinese military machine. So as the Russians were building tanks they knew were going to be used against them later, the American people through governmental legislation have been forced to buy poor quality Chinese goods.
Anytime Russia (not our friend) China (not our friend, and since they are trying to do us in economically might be our worst enemy … with illegals running a close second) Vietnam (not the people, the communist government) and other anti American countries get together to play war games, you can bet your best skivvies that they’re doing it to flout their might; or to try to make the U.S. nervous. America should trust none of them … period. Until we started importing all their pissy wares, and having other associations with them, America was a lot stronger, and more patriotic. God bless America.
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