The U.S. Special Operations Command was created in the wake of the the failed hostage rescue attempt in Iran in 1980, commonly known as “Desert One.” Analysis after the fact revealed that the services were unable to effectively interact to fight low intesity conflicts.
Here’s how Paulette Risher describes SOCOM in the 1st Quarter 2006 issue of JFQ:
“Established by Congress in 1987, USSOCOM was envisioned as a unified command with service-like responsibilities to oversee all Special Operations Forces. Designated responsibilities outlined in Title 10 of the United States Code included resource allocation and budget management, ostensibly to bolster special operations capabilities in such areas as joint doctrine and training, personnel management, and mission planning. The law also mandated that, should the President or Secretary of Defense direct, the commander of USSOCOM would exercise command of a selected special operations mission. Thus, although most of the commands effort would support the other combatant commands, under certain circumstances it could become a supported command.”
The GWOT has given SOCOM myriad opportunities to be the supported command. Special operators traditionally complained that regular forces were too “heavy handed” when dealing with the locals in a counter insurgency environment, but in the supported command role over the years has the distinction between special operations and the regular forces eroded? And further, has what made each service’s special ops capability unique gone away in the face of counter insurgency warfare? Is mission tasking simply plug and play with little concern regarding the difference between, say, SEALs and Green Berets? Is there a difference? Does it matter anymore?
(Note: The DT staff is flying back from San Francisco, so we’ll be post light for the balance of today. We’ll hit it hard once we get through security and find an overhead bin for our carry-ons and finish fighting rush hour on the Beltway, etc., etc.)
– Ward
{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }
As someone who has just returned from Iraq, I wholeheartedly agree with the thrust of the article. In that counterinsurgency environment, there was very little difference between operations conducted by SOF and conventional forces. Granted I am sure there are specific secret squirrel missions that only the SOF can do but for the most part, the SOF were nothing more than reinforcements.
The day I reinforce a conventional unit is the day I retire. I didn't go through 1.5 years of the SFQC, 5 trips to Iraq, 4 months of SFWOTTC, and 10 weeks of SFWOAC to "reinforce" conventional units. I am not a snob, but the Army didn't invest the money in me that they have to "reinforce" a conventional unit. I have NEVER had a conventional force CMDR (Army or Marine) request that I reinforce him with my ODA. They ALWAYS request that we lead the way with our intelligence gathering capabilities and specific war fighting skills. I suppose you are the kind of person who say, "my unit is Special Operations capable." What in God's name does that mean anyway. I would have to say that a conventional fire and maneuvers unit is in a pretty sad state if they are relying on 12 guys with guns to be their reinforcement.
Whats the big deal? CBS’ “the Unit” has gotten along pretty well without the acknowledgement of other branches of services(or even Army Rangers,Night Stalkers,or Green Berets) & the Air Force armed with their FN P90s have held the fort with the Stargate against the Gouold,Ori,& the Wraith,except when they allowed the Marine Corps to help out at Atlantis.
Seriously,wasn’t there talk of making Special Forces Command a separate service branch of the armed forces?
Congrats to DT for running this piece. For far too long SOCOM has gotten a free pass – as if it was too “cool” to ever be questioned.
This disaster of congressional meddling reminds me of the air force in many ways. After the Iran hostage debacle, a gaggle of special forces types cried to senators that if only they were running the show, they could rescue hostages, kill the bad guys, and shine the floors far quicker and better than the bad old regular Army.
It was another shiester peddling a different way to fight a war – instead of the Air Forces’ “airplanes can do it all”, it was special operators claiming they could do it all. “Just give us the money, gear, and freedom and we’ll win America’s wars quick and easy….”
Like air power, it was a fool’s dream. And like air power, SOCOM has turned into a tremendous money pit sucking huge amounts of money (per trigger puller) for minimal real world results. It has turned into an executive branch private army, a fifth service with no service secretary, leaching money, men, and materiel from the conventional forces without actually doing much in return.
Its true believers are probably still claiming they don’t have enough freedom or enough money to realize their goal, and of course, there never will be enough money or freedom because its a pipe dream – another snake oil salesman’s pitch for a cheap and easy way to fight wars. Its a mirage, or more like a sad joke.
Special Operations Forces have a definite role to fill in the armed forces. But just like any other piece of gear or specially trained individual, its only value is when combined with the other elements of military force.
Tanks can’t win a war by themselves, nor can air planes, nor can cooks, nor can SOF types. They can complement conventional forces, they can even become the main effort in some situations, but they are no more a panacea than nukes or air power.
SOCOM needs to go away. The service elements need to go back to their services, and fill the role in that service they were created for. Marine Recon needs to support the Force commander. SEALs need to support the amphibious task force commander. SF needs to support regional CINCs.
In an age of purple-think, SOCOM is an anachronism – the one “service” left that still thinks they can do it all, by themselves. SOCOM’s leaders have never had the deep vision or wisdom to understand SOF’s limitations. They are still acting like kids given too much money and freedom, without a clue what to do with either.
Sounds like a moaner who couldnt hack it in the Teams we can do a whole lot more with a few than BIG Army or other conventional forces can do with a ton of guys and to say we have had minimal real world results is a farce
KragCulloden! Well Done!!!
There is nothing more I can add to your posting! Extremely well said!
Oh and Ward you better watch out for black helicopters for even broaching this subject!
Guys, guys — SOCOM is a urinal cake, AND a breath mint!
Seriously, it’s not hard to find fault with the whole SOCOM deal. Here we are in asymmetric warfare, and it looks like all we’ve done is provide a symmetrical response: a new bureaucracy, with its own org chart, slogans, paperwork and PowerPoint displays (first slide: “Killing Targets in Denied Areas”; last slide: “Questions?”).
I mean, if you asked Francis Marion, Roger’s Rangers or Merrill’s Marauders what they thought of SOCOM, they’d probably give you an earful. Personally, I’d like to hear what Sterling Hayden (aka, “Colonel Jack D. Ripper”) who ran guns to Marshal Tito across the Adriatic, would make of all this s**t. I bet some of the old Air America and SOG guys think it’s a big bureaucratic wank.
I get it, I really do, but I also remember something about babies and bathwater. Could SOCOM use a little reform, like the rest of the GWOT? Sure; if you don’t have a loop for course correction, a missile doesn’t hit its target.
Burn the whole mother down? Ummm…
Maybe I’m misinformed, but I’m sort of under the impression that SOCOM’s done a few good things. Like taking down Afghanistan after 9/11; IIRC, that was USAF CCTs, Army SOF, etc., through a few task forces coordinated by people who’d at least met through SOCOM, even if they weren’t coordinated directly from Tampa.
The ability to put together an inter-service SOF task force is valuable. I mean, the way you fight networks is with networks. You can probably network SOF and direct action forces without a budget, base, buildings, logos, slogans, paperwork, etc., etc., but there’s a human and social element, too. If you need to build a task force fast, you cut transaction and opportunity costs by using people who already know each other.
Downside is, that makes SOCOM at least partly a social club. Believe me, that rankles; I’m not much of a joiner, myself. But there it is; we must “embrace the suck”.
Does all that mean we need a 5th force? Ummm…dunno. Don’t think so, but there’s room for a difference of opinion.
Tell you what — a 5th force lets you do some things the other 4 can’t. For example, relatively lean procurement.
There’s also room for a difference of opinion on this, but SOCOM has either tested and fielded some equipment and TTP, or preserved some other stuff, that’s come around to benefit the force at large.
IIRC, SOF and SOCOM did a lot to keep 7.62mm semiauto sniper rifles in the TOE, as well as the .45 ACP. They did good things with burst/encrypted transmission commo gear. They’ve worked up some TTP for direct action that’s now SOP for MOUT, across services. Ditto for VBSS, although they had a little help from the Coast Guard. Right now, they’re pushing some interesting projects in small arms reform: a new pistol, the SCAR, etc. Might be good to let them run with that a bit, if only as stalking horses.
IMHO, one of the best arguments for breaking up SOCOM, or at least mixing it up, comes from breeding plants and animals. If you’ve done that you know inbreeding is A Very Bad Thing. Ditto for letting SOCOM or “regular” forces be some sort of dichotomous career rut, and never the twain shall meet.
Maybe I’m way behind the times, but some of the Army SOF guys I met back in the day claimed they got the most out cross postings outside their MOS — armor or artillery assignments, Civil Affairs, psyops, even MP or JAG. At the time, they said their host units got a lot out of it too. Maybe that was bulls**t, some self-serving Rashomon thing; I dunno.
If you’ve bred plants or animals, you know you’ve got to go out of the bloodline now and then to keep the strain strong.
Don’t know that I’d burn SOCOM down, so much as mix it up a bit.
But that’s my $0.02. Take it FWIW.
Out.
Could SOCOM be labeled as “OUR” Republican or Revolutionary Guard? Maybe surely our Praetarian Guard. Conspiracy theories aside,there have been Special Forces units that are more secret than Delta Force,especially during the 80′s there were a lot of these “Black Op” units(Is Seaspray the correct name of one of them?).The FBI’s Hostage Rescue Unit is a paramilitary “Special Ops” unit.I laugh at the myth of interservice rivalry or even say a rivalry between the military Special Ops & the FBI &/or CIA since they all work for the same master(more than we really know) & they are all on the same team with these “artificial rivalries” acted out.
SOF is probably the only thing the Military has that works these days. Special forces creates soldiers that think on there feet and adapt to their environment. This war in Iraq has proved many times over that big Army is infested with incompetent leaders; Officers and NCO’s who’s only mission is to make sure they get that next rank and to make sure soldiers are getting their haircut every week. SOF soldiers focus on what matters and are not afraid to use all the necessary resources. If you ask me the only thing hurting SOCOM is things like the 18x program in the Army.
The early 18x program had issues, but they have been fixed with new age requirements, new standards, etc.. Don't hate the 18x program just to want to jump on the bandwaggon with misinformed people. Read "Chosen Soldier" by Dick Couch before you post any more regarding the 18x program. The 18x candidates are now recieving more training than your average sf-turned-sergeant with all of the extra phase 1 schools.
On the other hand, you could not be more correct about incompetent leaders in the big army and how the Special forces create soldiers that think on their feet and adapt to their environment.
Raptorman's message brings up something I hadn't considered – how many guys currently in the military even know that all these units (except the AF ones) existed BEFORE SOCOM did? Know that they originally had a purpose in their own service and were raised by those services to do a job?
With the exception of Recon, a bet lots of young men have grown up thinking its normal for SOCOM to exist and to house multi-service special operations units. What a twisted view of reality. :)
Just bc we work under SOCOM doesnt mean that we ignore our original mission statements that is first in foremost SOCOM gives us a better capability to work together bc were "under one roof"
All of your postings reek of jealousy. What ever happened to one team one fight? USSOCOM is a functional CMD. Do you know what a functional CMD is? Well i'll tell you. A functional CMD provides a specific capability that is not regionally based to the Regional Combatant Commanders. The reason I say you are jealous is that I have not read where you advocate for the dissolving of STRATCOM and TRANSCOM, which are also functional CMDs. Your argument could use some more refining before going public with it. If you want to get rid of SOCOM, then take it up with the Geographic Combatant CMDRs, they're the ones who can't get enough of the SOCOM crack pipe. There must be a damn good reason SOCOM forces are in such great demand. Maybe because they do such a good job and are extremely cost effective. It must make you sad that the Army is transforming into gigantic Special Forces detachments with the new ARFORGEN concept. They will have regionally oriented brigades that conduct security force asssistance (gosh, that sure sounds alot like the US Army Special Forces model.)
You're right, KragCulloden… I may have misunderstood yours (and some others) writing. I focused more on Roger Malice's comments. I also think they need to find a better organization plan for special ops. Although they work together often, sometimes the leaders don't seem to know who to use for what mission. Throw in conventional forces and it all goes to shit… everyone wants to do it their way and such. Shoot, look at what happened in the Shahikot Valley! Anyway, I appreciate your comments and for pointing out my misunderstanding… I was stuck on one comment and responded to that, even though I didn't specify. Cheers!
Yes, lets look at what happened in the Shahilot Valley. First, the Russians fought and lost two seperate engaements there. Then USSF began planning the mission, when the conventional forces took over the planning. Only problem was the conventional forces forgot to include the CFACC in the planning. The CFACC finds out about the operation 5 days before the start and are sent scrambling to find the air power to find the battle. Doesn't sound at all like a Special Forces problem to me. I know you didn't way it was, but I believe you insinuate as much.
Raptorman makes a real simple mistake:
No one said get rid of SOF. I specifically said they should all return to their own service and fulfill their original role.
The issue is SOCOM, and all the crap that SOCOM entails. All the things you list in your message are things that can be done quite well without SOCOM, as your list of great small units in history demonstrates (they had no SOCOM but still did great things).
SOCOM does not equal SOF operators. I don’t think anyone thinks we need to get rid of Delta, Recon, SF, or SEALs. But they do need to get back to basics, focus on their *original* service-specific mission, and realize they are part of the mix, not the whole enchilada.
The raft of three and four star generals at socom, pretending to be on par with the actual service chiefs and regional CinCs, need to have a nice party then retire to high-paying private sector jobs like all good generals do when they get old (or useless).
Just caught your other comment after I posted… that is interesting. Unless you study those units, who knows about these great groups’ history. I’m fortunate enough to have had a grandfather in the FSSF, so I took it upon myself to study up, which of course led to studying other groups. I try desperately to study the past of special ops while keeping up with the present… gives me a headache sometimes. I think todays military still struggles with the same problems of the past… how to work together effectively! Ah, the age old question…
Oops,my mistake.”The Unit” on CBS is most likely the portrayal of the Intelligence Support Activity(What? No support from SEASPRAY on the show?).
New to the forum and I’m kinda surprised at some of the takes here. Almost all valid to some degree. I was selected for the first Delta group and then got injured, had to stand by and watch the “new age” of modern warfare develop.
FIRST, when the new crop of SOF units started coming to the fore, they were touted as special situational units for specific crisis situations. Having members of my family in certain units, I felt I had a deeper knowledge than most. SF units were great counterinsurgency operators ,Force Recon were fantastic resources for the Epeditionary group leaders. SEALs were all around heavy hitters.
BUT THEY ALL HAD ONE THING IN COMMON, infiltrate, operate, exfiltrate…unseen means success! Sure, when things went from KISS to SNAFU everyone can operate with force,boldness and violence of action, but that was NOT the primary objective for any unit that I’m aware of that has ever been stood up.
SECOND, the media is the enemy here, not each other. The media has chosen to try and glorify and glamorize these units. They give lip service to the military “machine” then belittle most of the Armed Services by the attitude that “if the rest of you were like these units then we’d all be better off.” Well give the rest of the service chiefs the same money per military member as the operators and all the service would be better. No, everyone would not be as proficient since dedication levels are not the same. That is not a slam, but the fact from an old NCO. Not everyone has the same level of committment to excellence. But we would all be better off. The media has no place in the theater of ops regardless of what any statesider thinks. Until you’ve had rounds overhead, you have no business critiquing anyone. Today’s OPFORs worldwide live off satellite and internet feeds that we allow in real time. What in the hell was someone thinking?? To make matters worse, the beleagered service chiefs see one SOF unit or another on tv and think “I gotta get me one of those” and the cycle starts again.
THIRD… rotate ALL units through the combat theater. Yes, I know the “we’ve already done it so we’re the best for the job” argument. But when that units gets burned then you have to start over. Rotate them ALL and you have truly improved the overall readiness of the entire force structure. SOF units have existed since the late 1700′s. Operators and trailblazers all, they exemplify the difference between American forces and the rest of the world for over 230 years. But in today’s environment we all have to be better and with technology we’re getting there. The Services are America’s spear of defense and the SOF operators are the fine edge of that weapon. From the tip to the back of the blade, we all cut the enemy with that fine edge so the regular units can shove it down their throat. Granted, there is nothing like interservice rivalry, but we all have a function and unless we stay as a team none of us are as effective!! Thanks for the space…
The biggest problem with SOCOM is it a UNIT that wants to get bigger with more jobs. They have a need to micromanage and justify their jobs.
When we have a whole platoon of SEAL’s getting killed in Afghanistan because of a mission that should have never happened in the first place, somebody higher in SOCOM is to blame. That same valley the SEAL recon team went into was where only SF company size operations were and had taken place.
If each SOF unit would support their parent unit and stay out of each others area the GWOT would be further along than now. For example SEALS stay with the Navy (water), SF (Green Berets) and Air Force support ARMY, Force Recon support the Marines.
The reason Desert One operation failed was because Jimmy Carter failed us as a president not the men of SOF failed. SOCOM was started as a reaction to one failed mision and administration.
SOCOM should be downsized and each branch should maintain their own SOCOM.
Also I agree with a comment earlier that Special Forces units get their greatest strengths from the different MOS’s they get from the conventional units.
Actualy we had been working in that are with small groups for awhile if you would have sent in a larger unit sh** would have been worse overall
Good point Sandman.
Remember in the past when tragedy would strike Special Operations and the cry would go out…”Conventional Commanders have no idea how to properly use us”…the tragedies you named have no fathers except “the fog of war” –Its past time to break up that social club in Florida.
First off, SOCOM did not come around simply as a result of the failure of Desert One. That was an aspect of it but only one; (the creation of the 160th SOAR can on the other hand be seen as a direct result.) Back in the day, Special Operations Forces (SOF) got the short end of the stick in terms of training, funding, and action because their mother branches were so hell bent on sticking to their conventional ideologies that they would ostracize their unconventional brethren.
SOCOM was created to change that; with the realization that unconventional warfare was growing in importance came the understanding that the only way to protect America’s UW forces was to give them their own unified command with its own resources in terms of training and funding. Congress realized that the mother branches were not going to give UW the type of attention it needed so Congress created an alternative.
What needs to change is SOCOM’s operational integrity. Commanders at the top need to realize that just because there is a conflict does not mean that every single unit under their control needs to get in on it. For example, while Army SF is trained to operate in areas where they need to work with local populations, SEALs are not. A majority of the work in Afghanistan is right up Army SF’s alley, yet the urge to bring in SEALs seems to have been uncontrollable.
Every single SOF has its capabilities and the mission profiles that it is designed to take on. Commanders have a tool box in front of them that has individual tools tailor made for specific jobs. Instead of dumping out everything at once they need to learn to pick out which single tool is called for with each job.
Although I agree with some of your points we arent used to train the indigigenous personel of Afghanistan SEALs are sent on DA missions primarily and thats what were good at
Nice to hear from Sanddragon, (as well as any other oldtimers.) I knew guys in the original NCDU, and the couple groups newer…
Something that is becoming clear to me is that (an I am speaking in an overall view) that technology is hindering the Operator a great deal. Now, Im not talking about something that makes his weapon work better, Im talking the extra 100pnds of crap! Things get from “kinda confusing to a MF GoatF&^L in a firefight with alot of this technology= ie- CRAP!
But thats a big tangent, and wanna stay on point. Absolutely agree, “GreensBeanies” were for CounterInsurgency, Rangers were “the nuts of the “regular force”, Air Force always had “something”, but mostly their FAC’s were worth their weight in gold, The Marines had a “fleet anti terror unit”, that came around the time of the Marine Barracks in Beirut, and ahhhh yes, the TridentTrue Naval Specwargrp… If you need it blown up, call someone else, they will plant 100 kilo’s to blow a door off! Well, they do like loud noises…. :) There domain is ocean, then other “things” became necessary, (but were already being done by the Delta hush hush guys back during the above named “Desert One”, another pal, had already halo’d in and was rallying men “somewhere nearby”, when the disaster came over the radio. They had already been left to their own devices, as agencie folks had skidaddled the night before, then the contacts of these agencies fled back to their homes in syria, lebanon, saudi arabia, etc…..They had to sneak and kill their way outta there on their own, no help until they crossed “the line”…………
So is “USSOCOM” now the problem? Well, really, YES and NO. (Ill hurry up ;)////
Yes because the people for the most part near the top are not operators (some are, most arent’) the people who pick what kit they get, basically are clueless…… You look for yourself who “makes the selections from the beginning as to what SOCOM see’s to purchase, many times some numbnuts cut it out before it even got to them. The other problem (AND THIS IS the biggest!) The day the proficiencys went down so did every unit in every socom force. The PT went to hell, the political correctness was vomit worthy, <and still IS!! The ability to PUSH THESE KIDS < PPAASSTT their breaking points, and see who hangs on and who quits IS THE HOLY GRAIL OF ALL SPECWAR OPERATORS….) Youve either got it or go back to your unit. period… no three tries, no…….thats theeee biggest screw up..
One thing that is good, welll, look at it this way, at least they have it under one roof? So theres still hope. But the Brass needs to get off its collectively LAZY, PENCIL Pushin ASS!!!
Get your ass back in the grass SIR!!! Maybe you’d get some of that good ole’ perspective and feeling you used to have… (great eagles tune?) GET OVER IT~! Get offa your high n mighty and go roll in the mud w/ your men, prove to ‘em your the toughest frog in the pond…… thats the school I was raised in. If you don’t like it, return to your unit. “nobody will think badly of you ;)”
Salute to all whom where the uniform. No matter the branch, no matter the job. We are one, We are an indominatable force that cannot/willnot be defeated! For those that go into Harms Way so that others may live life free and in peace, Present Arms! Order Arms……….God Speed.
OutComm…….Sgt E
Is SOCOM part of the problem? I don’t know what is the problem? Is Defense Tech part of the problem? Maybe. Or maybe you should put some more thought into an article titled “Is SOCOM part of the problem” ; like maybe figure out what the supposed ‘problem’ is; if there is any. Or is this article just a big rhetorical question?
Great comments Soup. As said previously, no one (IMO) is bashing the operators, but rather the leadership at SOCOM. These guys have no business running a command on par with the regional CinCs and service leaders.
They just don’t have the breadth of knowledge nor the wisdom to be placed in a position at that level. Special operations forces DO NOT need to be grouped into a CinC-level command. That was not the correct answer to fix the problems which reached a climax with the Iranian debacle.
Had that single big media disaster not occured, SOCOM would not exist. To deny that is unrealistic. These problems of SOF crying about conventional bad guys would not have amounted to much, barring a spectacular failure that everyone knew about.
Were there issues that needed fixing, yes. Was SOCOM the answer – absolutely NOT. Its make no more sense than pulling our artillery from the Army and Marines and creating a unified artillery command (“USARTCOM”), or pulling every tank out and giving tankers their own unified command (USARMCOM).
The “(some military field) doesn’t understand us, they don’t understand how to use us properly, we need to control our own fight” is as old as the phalanx and the first split between missile troops and infantrymen.
The answer lies in better officer training, crossover tours to broaden officers’ experiences, and laison personnel/teams that provide an advocate for (enter bereaved branch here) within higher and joint commands.
But pulling every different type of force/gear-based branch out of the services and giving them their own command is stupidity. It was stupid when the Air Force did it with airplanes, it was stupider when SOCOM did it with SOF troops. Its not a solution, its running away to play by yourself…leading to bigger messes down the line when war requires everyone to work together.
I dont want a Conventional Commander controling me or my Team if you didnt go through what we have and so many other units in the whole SOF community you will never know the true way to use us plain and simple
Sandman, I must agree with you 100%. I was not SPECOPS but did support several teams in Vietnam.In combat support/ Weapons in those days many of the teams had to scrounge certain weapons
and equipment they needed. So it appears that equipment is still a problem after 30 odd years huh? tom367freedom
As a relatively new operator, two years on a team, but a long time in the army I’d like to offer my perspective. SOCOM is necessary in that it does protect SOF from the parent units. There is also the apparent need to “make hay while the sun shines,” which is what has led to everybody tries to get in on the action while it’s still going on.
The problems with SOCOM are the same as some of those in the Big Army. Officers spend at most two years on a team and then go off to be decision makers for a whole lot of team, and they do this with the misconception that they actually know what they’re talking about. By the time they command a Group or some post at USSOCOM or USASOC they’ve completely lost touch with the guys at the pointy end of the spear. Add to it the fact that there are way too many of them in what is a primarily NCO driven field. Since SF became a branch back in ’87 somebody had to find jobs for all of these officers who just finished the last cool job they’d ever have in SF (i.e. Team Leader). SWC is absolutely full of posts that are redundant so that some LTC can have a battalion to command. All of this time away from a team leads many of them back into their conventional ways, and the same can be said for the Sergeants Major as well. It’s as if in their efforts to “mainstream” SOF they’ve forgotten where they came from. Right now I’m seeing a lot of the same risk-averse ass-covering I knew in Big Army. I’d say kick the excess officers back to their old branch if I knew they wouldn’t be treated like traitors, but maybe that would really bring only the very serious ones into SF.
Another facet of the above-mentioned problem for us is gear. We frequently don’t get what we asked for and get what we didn’t ask for and don’t want. I know some of you guys in other units and services don’t seem to have as much of a problem, but SF seems to get the short end of the stick on this matter. We hear about gear that SOCOM is buying, but we haven’t seen it. We know somebody’s getting it….it just ain’t us. Guess you gotta kick doors to get the cool stuff.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to go off into a rant, but we’ve had issues here directly related to this matter. Brass tacks–too many officers in too many made-up jobs without the necessary SOF experience making decisions for the operators while trying to steer their careers to be the next Army/Navy/Air Farce/ Chief of Staff. Fact of the matter is that the train would continue to drive itself if most of them were never there.
Well I can say for a fact we get all kinds of crap in the Teams we dont want or need so somebody higher up can justify there jobs! We get to choose our own gear and most is not the new gucci crap we always get I mean its just a waste. I have an M4 suppressor Sig p226 and M79 and ammo of course thats my basic bare bones needs for most DA missions with eceptions of LRRP meals and a few other essentials. All this spending on new tech is a waste when we dont need or want most of it unless its new weopons and better attachments and the like. Yes in that since SOCOM is a waste!
SOCOM has an 8 billion dollar budget, fewer than 8 thousand “operators” and has a support staff (including air wings and other such positions) equaling almost 50,000 more personnel. Is it not obvious that SOCOM has become an enormous bureaucracy? They are now almost 1/3 the size of the Marine Corps! If future growth is taken into account, SOCOM will be HALF the size of the Marines! An earlier poster stated that they aren’t getting the gear —sorry cry me a river! It appears from the outside that SOCOM gets whatever SOCOM wants! I’ve never seen a military organization have a section assigned to their page requesting input on problems with gear. The rest of us have to make our 782 work or go buy our own. Talking to the guys in the “big Army” they have the same problem. This is NOT aimed at the guys in the field. But it should be obvious to all that the Bureaucracy has become a problem. Call it a final gift of Rummy’s Revolution in Military Affairs.
At a SOCOM meeting before Grenada an Admiral said he was sending SEAL teams into the areas where the tide was extremely bad
At a SOCOM meeting before Grenada an Admiral said he was sending SEAL teams into the areas where the tide was extremely bad
At a SOCOM meeting before Grenada an Admiral said he was sending SEAL teams into the areas where the tide was extremely bad – The then commander of SOF told the Admiral he was crazy and would lose all his men – the mentality of the Admiral was – all if not most of the SEALs were lost I say this as it fits with Desert One failed operation when Navy helicopter pilots that never had the direct combat training required for the Desert One type of mission were used only because the Navy had to be part of the picture delivering the right kind of helicopters and crew was not enough the Admiral was more into the glory than completing a successful mission. Navy will be part of this operation and in the way I say all if not most of the SEALs were lost I say this as it fits with Desert One failed operation when Navy helicopter pilots that never had the direct combat training required for the Desert One type of mission were used only because the Navy had to be part of the picture delivering the right kind of helicopters and crew was not enough the Admiral was more into the glory than completing a successful mission.
Special Operations soldiers (form all services) are good at what they except the Glory hungry officers and civilians leaders????? that will not use their thinking ability if there is any chance someone else might get credit.
There is no reason an officer or NCO should be moved out of SOF in order to gain rank and prestige just to say I am SOF qualified unfortunately I know some of them they will never use the costly training for anything else than to move up.
The worst thing to me is the regular military does not understand SOF their mission or HOW TO USE SOF Politicians think they can do everything with nothing Give any SOF group a mission, give them what they need and just get out of the way and let them do their job without some bureaucrat who does not even know what is happening making a decision he knows nothing about
Sorry of the ramble but let SOF due their jobs and not for career improvement or politicians talk anyone who becomes SOF qualified must go on missions and put their lives on the line before there is chance to move back to the regular army
OK Ward….you started this fur-ball! What say you Sir ?
Hey, Solomon; I never ask questions for which I have an answer. I yield to the forum. These comments are more evidence that the informed are part of the DT community.
But that having been written, I do know that bureaucracy breeds bureaucrats. SOCOM’s size threatens its agility. So in that regard,IMO, they are becoming “part of the problem.”
its a great idea to have 1 unified command. this way, intel is shared, one group of SEALS don’t run into a bunch of Rangers on the same mission. its about communication. this goes a long way towards it. JSOC should continue to draw from the pool of Soldiers, [airborne, air-assault, lrsd, cav scouts, Navy draw from Sailors and Marines [recon, scout/sniper] Air Force PJ’s that mix is wat makes JSOC so effective. where they get the DELTA Operators i can only guess. SF, Rangers? or maybe ALL branches?
SOCOM should be run by former SOCOM operators. who sent SEALS to an airstrip to disable a plane? 6 died. that is not a job for SEALS. they could have used Rangers, or even air-assault troops from Campbell. chopper in some para-troopers, or let them jump. wat a bad decision…
I hear this and that about the Socoms you know they too kicked butt caught Saddam with other groups help but like any other forces they have there Problems and the Biggest problem we have is using all that GPS computers hight tech equipment hmmmm what happens if a group walks in I forget what its called but it takes Electricty away anywhere they want then what I think every Soldiers Forces Seals Socoms had better go back too the Basics and learn again cause if they dont they are in the dark and the bad guys can see ya kill ya real easy because they didnt use that stuff Iam proud of every 1 of the Armed Forces whois given me still my Freedom and Iam a Veteran Myself everyone messes up BUT LIKE I SAID THE SOCOMS HAS KICK BUTT ALSO every Soldier still needs too Train and Train AND LEARN so quit your Bickerone and start SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS no Matter who what they are OK THANK YOU FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!!!!!
RHYNO327 hind site is 20/20, a .50 is all that was needed to disable that airplane. But a decision was made to let the seal go do the job, in war the decisions made arnt always the best. When lead starts flying you do what you have to do. Also they attacked a position that has heavily occupied by trained troops who new how to fight (unlike the enemy we are fighting today). Hind site is 20/20 SOCOM is a great asset to have, and getting rid of it would be just plain crazy. Remember why it was started.
What problem is it that the author is referring too ?? (Rolling eyes)
If the article contained a laundry list of “problems” I’d be more interested in posting this over on other forums.
Again, what specific problems are there ??
What’s the difference between SF and SEALs ? You gotta be kidding me.
Thunderwolf:
You haven’t a clue what you are talking about do you ? What the hell is “SOCOMS” ? Why not use the term “Special Operations Forces” Are you an “airsofter” or are you actually on active duty somewhere. If you are, then let us know so I can stay away from you and your unit.
What the hell are you taling about “GPS systems and electronic stuff ? 18Echoes can string comms and operate in conditions and climates of culture without the need for a GPS, but it’s handy to have one don’t ya think ?? You really think that a Special Forces soldier or an Special Operations soldier or sailor or Marine isn’t capable or using a GPS system ? Or, to change it’s batteries when it goes dead ?
You probably need to stay out of the lane in this conversation. Move along.
1)Everyone wants to see themselves as “Delta” lite.
2)Proficiency in the field has become a thing of the past as 35 lb Rucksack,Power-Point Rangers and 18 Series REMFs now have come into some rank.
3) SOCOM, since becoming a “career maker” instead of breaker, now has more officers than Operators. I am not speaking of service and support personnel in total. Just officers alone.
4)We all are aware of dirtballs with Bronze Stars who never fired a round !!
5)How about making some of these turds simply pass a PT test, a ruck, and shoot a little.
6)Give an O-3 five years on a team.
7)If a well is promised, then get it in there.
The military isn’t some place to hope for a chance to kill. It is probably the most effective tool for promoting American values available on this planet.
With the 18 series the military has become the most effective tool for promoting, period.
SOCOM does work, when it’s work is allowed. For too long it has been used, not utilized.
Thunderwolf,you said something that feeds spies,do
not be a hero!OPSEC and PERSEC always are used,for
and against you.
The above article can be,named,Hamas/Fatah and their rocket tactics and how Israel needs to stop
them!It’s a seamless counter-measure,therefore only the:Other seamless,will stop it!It’s a push
and pull arena…Tit for tat!
Too heavy handed!Dude,Infantry is always under-fire from them terrors!what do you expect to hear
from their tired and confused minds?Definitly not
some,perfect speech or soothing sound.Where,SOF flys in at will and then leaves almost instantly,
compared,to the sustained warfare the others are
doing!Therefore,SOF isn’t balanced!
Allways interesting to see SOF debates :-)
In some countries we can only hope and prey for a joint special operations command.
When I first in the game, I did not know what can I do. I searched some information about the Rappelz game. But I still did not know how to play. Later, a people saw me and asked if I was new player. I said I was, and he said he took me play. In this way, I had a first friend in the game. He told me how to play, how to upgrade, fight monster and earn rappelz rupees. Because him, I knew a lot of friends. We often played together and helped each other. In the game, I played very happy.
All things are the memories, before all things have been imprinted in my mind, the friends all have left the 2moons, sometimes before when the sleeping I often think of the previous screen, together with friends upgrade, earn the 2moons dil and together play with friends, playing now I also feeling some tired, I do not know what things I persist in
they often like to ask something about the players looks like, family, and in the game can earn how much 2moons gold, I do not know these people are playing the game or game play them. Some people often put some picture to the Internet, she thought that this way can let people feel humiliated, but I think they are wrong
Like person calm down and slowly the feeling of thinking, I need thinking of by myself; the tears filling my eyes, my heart have nothing, I feel that o lose the all things, the world already give up me, the lingering shadow of shaking in my face, in order to play this game I spend money to buy the flyff penya, the BB again left me at the same time, same situation when I hard to get it, my angry can not use the words describe, if I was not operated for a full and the lack of time, then I do not have any words to say, but last time also like this.
Other players can, I think I can too, many players said that BB can let us get more flyff gold, if you do not have enough flyff gold in the game, and then you can not do many things, in the reality world also like this. But I more like through my effort to get the success, that success can let me memorable forever.
I think for you it is easy, do not have enough fiesta Gold, the game screen was clear and concise, in the game the monster were very lovely, the visual effect of the game is good too, they can point conversion, compared humanity!
Skygod you remind of an IT with a missing head disorder!
Give please. A smiling face is half the meal.
I am from Tanzania and learning to write in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: “Community members of medhelp provide help, support, guidance and discussion around the.”
With best wishes :(, Candace.