Heres an interesting and disturbing report from CBS news on a new weapon being used against US troops in Iraq: Russian-made armor-piercing hand grenades. I’ve never heard of these before, but I’d be interested to hear what DT readers know about them.
– Christian
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The old Soviet and current Russian Republic’s army’s have used anti-tank hand grenades since WW2. Designs included the RPG-40, PPG-43 and
RPG-6.
Wikipedia has an article up on the grenades used in Iraq at this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKG-3_anti-tank_grenade
…with the following text:
Design
RKG stands for Ruchnaya Kumulyativnaya Granata (Handheld Shaped Charge Grenade). When the pin is pulled and the grenade is thrown a four-panelled drogue parachute is deployed by a spring. This parachute stabilizes the grenade in flight and ensures that the grenade comes down vertically onto the target.
[edit] History
The RKG-3M was used extensively during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.
RKG-3 grenades have also been used by Iraqi insurgents against coalition forces. On 1 June 2006, RKG-3 grenades were used in an attack on an American Humvee,[1] and RKG-3 grenades have been captured by US Marines from insurgents in Al Anbar.[2]
RKG-3 grenades have been intercepted en-route to Palestinian forces in Gaza. [3]
They are a shaped charge or HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) weapon that the Russians used for years. This technology is considered obsolete by any conventional armed force. I suppose the advantage to Iraqi insurgents is that the grenades are small enough to be easily concealed by persons appearing to be innocent pedestrians and, due to the fact that the explosive charge is directional, can be employed without killing the thrower (although they sure seem like a risky proposition). Not sure what to make of a sudden spike in their use — perhaps they found a Russian supplier willing to unload a bunch of old munitions cheaply.
This mil-blog reports that this Ex-Soviet grenade has been in Iraq for close to a year:
http://rofasix.blogspot.com/2007/06/attacks-on-humvees-using-rkg-3em.html
inventory of weapons listed here indicate how easily these can flow into Iraq from other sources. (Note that smugglers admitted to (2) successful runs in the past)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKG-3_anti-tank_grenade
I maybe wrong here, but…
It’s not just the weapon you have to consider, but the target as well. An enemy (an intelligent enemy) isn’t going to attack an M1A2 with a tea spoon… though, I’m sure somebody has. These SOB’s stand on the side of the road waiting for the right target to peddle through there kill zone, or peek over a wall to see what light or soft targets they can kill on the other side.
In the video the ‘reporter’ says, “…and they undermine the advantage the U.S. has in hi-tech weaponry and heavy armor”. The only thing, in the video clip shown, that I saw being attacked were HMMWV patrols. That POS, I’m pretty sure, isn’t classified as ‘heavy’. Though it has probably gotten more soldiers killed than… but I digress.
I wonder if the Trophy Anti-RPG/Anti-Missile Protection System, or a lighter variant, would work against something like this… maybe it could zap the guy who threw it as well. Heck, design the system to kill the thrower/shooter who attacks the vehicle.… rocks, grenades, or RPGs… they’ll stop eventually.
Here’s an idea: Outfit a HMMWV with a Trophy system under the rear cargo hatch, but make it indistinguishable from the other convoy vehicles…it might make them think twice about which target to hit. That or build an anti-RPG system into the HMMWV turret, and have the vehicle work choke points & road blocks… eh… who knows.
There is a good discussion (along with info, pics, video, etc.) of these grenades here:
http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=6689
Like others said, these are from an old Soviet concept: engaging tanks in urban combat with shaped charges. IIRC, they were thrown out of upper stories of buildings to attack thinner top armor. Don’t think they were ever particularly successful.
Tossing one at a Humvee from a horizontal aspect is a chancy proposition, for a lot of reasons. The only benefit to an insurgent/terrorist is it doesn’t print through clothing like a larger device, and wouldn’t leave trace evidence on you, assuming you were far enough away from the blast (like, behind a wall).
Otherwise, it’s practically a suicide weapon. If you aren’t attacking a lone vehicle, or the last in a formation, you’re dead meat for counterfire if you don’t throw from cover. Even then, a gunner in the target vehicle or another stands a good chance of waxing you.
Other countermeasures are easy, too. Bird cage slats will divert a shaped charge blast like they do for an RPG; you might be able to turn one of these with plywood slats, or camo netting. Changing course, speed or convoy position, or using bounding overwatch routes and stops, will make it harder for Johnny Jihad to put a grenade on target without getting really close.
IMHO, EFPs, IEDs and RPGs are worse problems, and this sort of thing is practically a PR stunt. But then again, it ain’t my ass on the line. Probably seems different from the back seat of a Humvee. If I was there, I’d probably want a shotgun, or buckshot rounds for the 40mm, plus a tweak or two to the ROE.
Good luck, youngbloods.
Your comment about this being “propaganda” seems to be contradicted by the other things you list, all of which seem to indicate the insurgency is quite successful at finding low-budget ways to injure and kill our troops, all while wasting our time and budget chasing ghosts. This is 4th generation warfare, and the giant can’t fight the lilliputians. It works exactly for the reasons you describe — hard to fight against, might cause a PR black eye, and is extremely effective.
We need to wake up and get out of this thing, there are urban terrorists here in the US this money would be better spent fighting and preventing. People get shot and killed every night here in the streets of Los Angeles, do you think this is acceptable for a 1st world nation that calls itself the leader of the civilized world? This war was a budget grab, check out the latest article on the war profiteering in Rolling Stone.
Eisenhower was right — the military-industrial complex has taken over.
hahaha!!! thats what the u.s troops get for invading iraq
Soviet RGK-3 based on the german WW2 Panzerwurfmine http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust9.htm
Because of the problems to stabilize the dedicated anti-tank grenades for flight — the shaped charge needed to be pointed straight at the armor to work efficiently — the Panzerwurfmine (“tank throw mine”) or PWM (L) (L for “lang” = “long”) was developed by the Luftwaffe weapon’s bureau (the Luftwaffe also contained ground forces in the form of it’s field units and the paratroopers).
The weapon weighed 1.36kg, had a length of 53.3cm and used a stabilizing assembly of four fins made of canvas at it’s rear. It was introduced into service in May of 1943 but proved rather impractical. Still, 203,800 were produced in 1943.
It’s successor model was the Panzerwurfmine Kz (Kz = kurz (“short”)) that weighed only 1 kg. Flight stabilization now was achieved by a long canvas strip that rolled out when the weapon was thrown and extended from it’s rear. The warhead had a diameter of 11.4 cm and carried a shaped charge of 500g that had an armor penetration of 150mm.
John — Why don’t you try arms control in your own country first? …just a thought.
– oz
I wonder whether these grenades were part of Saddam’s arsenal, or are being imported into the theatre? If not, it is likely these are being smuggled into Iraq from Iran or Syria. Has there been any reporting as to their markings or origin? (other than the fact they are probably of Soviet-era manufacture?)
I would think we are adjusting our TTP’s to counter this type of attack. Where is the mounted .50 cal gunner in the convoy? Are the bad guys directing the attack on this vehicle?
It is unfortunate the DOD does not have or release their own video of a counter-attack wiping out these bomb throwers. It may not serve as a deterrent, but it would surely boost morale.
OZ
True, I don’t think we should be able to buy assault rifles here. However, Walmart doesnt carry WWII potatoe mashers either. I was talking about grenades, rocket launchers, etc. not hand guns or hunting rifles. So its oK that an Iraqi kid learns how to throw and get access to a potatoe masher before he learns how to play guitar, do algebra, kiss a girl because we have hand guns in the US?
Add these to RPGs, damn.
Very scary.
No wonder we need MRAP vehicles en masse.
Time to Beef up Body Armor BIG Time.
Test some of these @ Ft Irwin CA base.
Find flaw someplace.
Save Lives.
Now have some suicide bomber tie about 10 of these on his, her body-Wham.
The killing of over 230,000 innocent civilians in Iraq alone has caused a great deal of shame to befall the American people.
From the beginning of the war the preservation of civilian life has never been given top priority. In the first two years alone of the invasion 25,000 civilians were killed. The number of dead continues to rise due to irresponsible bombing of critical infrastructure like sewers and clean water supplies.
There have been numerous bombings and indiscriminate mass shootings committed by US Troops. The sheer number of these atrocities and mass murders are truly staggering. Many US Troops who view themselves as morally superior and in the good graces of God due to their Christian faith have been found to relish both the torture and murder of non Christians.
I urge the reader to further investigate the killing of the innocent in Iraq to, at the very least, find out how their tax money is being spent.
this is am amazing clip for the people of iraq to get on thier toes and kick thier asses.
ANYONE HERE MENTIONED THERMOBARIC WEPONS? US IS MAYBE USING THEM , BUT FROM WHAT I AM READING RUSSIANS HAVE THEM AND ARE SELLING TO AFGANIS AND IRAQIS…quite possibly HEAT (SHAPED CHARGES) …FOR THOSE YOU NEED MORE ARMOUR, bigger tank etc. I believe hand held anti armour wepons are being developed faster than development or armor and tanks or both. JUST A THOUGHT…
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DAMN!You people are nuts…You write about magic
on the wrong subject idiots…But truly,only a magician would make such a Grenade anyway!
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