You all know Ive been pretty bummed lately about the overzealous adoption of the MRAP and its inevitable influence on the demise of the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle program.
Weve already reported here that the Pentagon ordered a reassessment of the program, in effect delaying it until the DoD is interested and has the money to devote to it — again. I have a problem with this because its well past time to replace the Humvee and there are a lot of great companies with great ideas out there chomping at the bit to build the Jeep of the future for the military.
While I was at the Modern Day Marine expo last week I spoke with Rod Millen, a renowned international rally racer and vehicle designer. His Tustin, Calif.-based company, Millenworks, has developed a series of manned and unmanned military tactical vehicles and his company is working with the Army to develop the MULE unmanned cargo carrier for FCS.
But at the show, his most impressive piece of gear was the Light Utility Vehicle, or LUV.
With both electric and diesel drive trains, and a top speed of 76 mph, the LUV cuts a clearly rally car-inspired line. Its huge ground clearance, a three-seat-across front cockpit (with center driver consol) and scalable armor packages Millenworks has definitely put forth a pretty strong candidate for the JLTV program.
Too bad there really isnt one anymore.
– Christian
How about the Flyer Defense Internally Transportable Light Strike Vehicle? This vehicle sort of reminds me of the ITV by Flyer Defense.The LUV looks interesting,what weapons,like anti-tank missiles,can it carry? Looking at all of these proposed “future” weapons & vehicles is like looking at the old Sears Christmas Catalog,the toys looked pretty cool,but you knew that the catalog pictures were the closest you’d ever get to them.
I remember back in the 80’s in Germany when the medical company I was with was driving the old GM CUCVs & our ambulances were the even older Dodge CUCVs.We were waiting for the “new” HMMWVs to come in.They didn’t show up until after I left Germany.Its strange from that point of view to think of HMMWVs as old.I guess they are just too big for certain missions & too light & unarmored for others.
Roy,
To me, it’s not so much an issue of “old”…it’s just that vehicle design, suspension, power, armor, armament, etc. has come so far in 20 years, I think it’s worth rethinking the Humvee.
The Humvee is a great vehicle — believe me I’ve seen it do some amazing things — and it’s been very adaptable given the threats in Iraq for which it was not designed. But with all the advances in vehicle design these days, it’s time for a replacement.
I agree with a need for change.To me it just seems like the HMMWV is too big for air drop & especially being transported by helicopter.Maybe in a motorized situation like the old 9th Motorized Infantry Division was designed for OUT OF an urban environment,yes the HMMWV is ideal.But,today the HMMWV is operating out of its element,at least in Iraq.I don’t hear of it having problems much in Afghanistan.Also,I think using MATTRACKS treads gives it an advantage in mountainous & winter environment,but I guess MATTRACKS would have no effect or impact,positive or negative,in Iraq urban environments.I still think HMMWVs with MATTRACKS look cool though.Off topic,why can’t our armed forces find a viable use for Bv206s,especially as an Airmobile Mechanized option for the 82nd & 101st Airborne Divisions?
It seems ideally we could keep many of the unarmored HMMWVs around with the light units especially the 82nd and 101st; while having the heavy units replace their HMMWVs with MRAPs. Use the heavy units in urban or “hot” areas and the light units in the open areas or along the borders. Just some thoughts but why not use the vehicle that fits what the need is.
Am I missing how this LUV is a quantum leap over the current technology? Compare it to the Turkish Otokar Cobra (which we should just build ourselves to augment the current HMMWV fleet). The LUV has only comparable performance in most areas (speed & mobility, for example) at the expense of being incompatible with the current HMMWV fleet (unlike the Cobra, which uses the HMMWV chassis). It’s also bigger, heavier, and carries considerably fewer men than the Cobra.
I don’t see why we would be so excited about replacing the HMMWV? They are great for what they where designed for. What we need is a light wheeled armored system that we can use for partols but replacing the HMMWV is a little on the silly side unless we can demonstrate a need for light un-armored wheeled systems in the field. (Finding uses for the HMMWV unarmored seems to get harder and harder all the time)
LUV: longer, wider, higher, much heavier and certainly much more expensive …
Why accept all these negatives when the humvee can do the task?
you could compare the hummvv with the navies obsesion with multi tasking hummvvs where designed to work in the open battlefeilds of eourupe and russia, not in the iraqi cities
same thing with the navies new ships im sorry but if im in the ocean i like to think my ship has better armor than a bradly and isnt just OK at a few things id want it to be good at its job
i think we should keep humvvs for a little while but think about a replacement
keep the mraps for cities but luv for rural and rough areas
just my two cents
Whatever they do, they need to do a better job of design for C3 equipment in all future vehicles.
How can they even start to call this a ‘light’ vehicle. It weighs 8 tons, the same wieght as an M113 APC. 8x the weight of a jeep!. Its looks hide the fact that it is as big as a truck. No wonder the US is loosing the war in Iraq, it has lost all perspective , even of size.
Gee, the generation of today must have such large fat asses that they can’t fit into a vehicle the same size as the WW2 Jeep.
well as far as ww2 generation.….my grandfather was 5’9.…..im 6’1 so um we are just a little bigger plus they also have alot more equipment to
There’s an article on the Ares blog over at Aviation Week about a potential alternative, the BAe SRATS vehicle:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yowa95
Less armor, but better offroad performance and agility. Don’t know if that’ll work for MOUT, but there it is.
There’s an even more interesting article on a new engine, a two cylinder, two stroke diesel rated at 325 hp:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2xjqbn
They’re going to test it in the FMTV series. If it proves out, it may be scalable to other systems. You can stack them to make a 4 or 6 cylinder system (running 650 and 975 hp, respectively), or pull it out of a ground vehicle, and put it in a UAV.
Maybe. If it proves out, we might think about designing vehicles around the different engine combinations.
Christian,
Nice find! You guys do good work-keep it up…
The press release begs off the question of survivability as classified. But, in this case, survivability is the whole story.
Survivability (admittedly in a mission it wasn’t built to carry out) is the primary problem with the Humvee. Unless you know something about how survivable this critter is, there is no way to evaluate its quality.
Looks cool is great, but an invincible image hasn’t stopped insurgent from going after far more robust military hardware.
REPLACE the HMV ? MAJOR dollar process. Which means that when they ARE replaced the Reserves and especially National Guard units will ge stuck with all the surplus future obsolete HMVs for decades.
Composite materials, alloy chassis, lighter & stronger more fuel efficient power plants with blast proof undercarriages is a tall order. 7.62mm bullet proof shell & glass, good 360 degree visability with a decent profile and access to return fire from doors AND a hatch to mount crew served weapons BETTER than the current vehicle all demand a lot from manufacturers and that process of R & D is going to take some time from all the lessons learned in Iraq &AFGN.
The DoD procurement system is an antiquated post-WW2 bureaucracy that is in dire need of a 21st Century overhaul. Just like the HMV.
Does it beat the old Komatsu LAV circa 2004?
See
http://www66.tok2.com/home2/tankguy/jgsdf03/keisoukou.html
That the Humvee is being asked to performa duty in Iraq it was not designed for doesn’t mean it needs to be replaced.
If the complaint is that todays technology is more advanced than that of 20 years ago, well, introduce Hummer Block B with some upgrades (although it’s dubious as to whether those marginal performance gains would justify the cost).
If the complaint is that the vehicle is not armored sufficiently for today’s IED environment, well, that what they designed the Stryker and the Bradley for.
But the notion that a utility vehicle should weigh 8 tons is both ridiculous and a horrendous waste of limited resources.
That thing looks awesome! They should put a turret on it with an auto-grenade launcher and a machine gun or two while they’re at it.
On Dec. 8th 1941 we entered WW2 with the M4 Sherman tank. The rifle of the day was a bolt action springfield and the new transportation of the day was this thing called the “Jeep”. We ended it with the M26 Purshing MBT. The M1 rifle and the Jeep. When I entered the military in 1983 we had the old canvas topped 1/4 Tons, M16A1s and M60A2 MBTs.
War is an evolutionary process. Historically we have never ended a war with the same equipment that we entered it with.
This is a different type of war that needs new tactics and new equipment. The Hummer was designed for the battlefields of Europe not the urban city’s of Iraq.
Our troops are the best in the world, we need to make sure they have the best equipment to perform in this new type of war.
You don’t fight todays war with yesterdays equipment and tactics.
Sgt. A Conti,
I hope you meant the M60A3 MBT.The M60A2 had that totally useless 152mm Shellelagh gun/missile system like on the M551 Sheridan.Don’t forget the M561 Gama Goat.In 1983,I was in Ft. Irwin.In 1984,I was in the 3rd Infantry Division & got to see the M1A1 Abrams & M2 Bradley.I never saw the HMMWV though,we were stuck with the CUCVs.The HMMWV didn’t come until after I left Germany.Also we still had AH-1 Cobras & they were still working the bugs out of the UH-60 Blackhawks(because they were falling out of the sky).I never personally got to see the MLRS.That would have been awesome to watch at Graf.I remember REFORGER in 1984 when we had our Kevlar “Fritz” helmets(that saved a life in Grenada),M1A1 Abrams,& M2 Bradleys & the stateside units that came over still had their steel pots,M60A3s(at least they weren’t M60A1s or M48A5s),& M113s.
Nice looking vehicle as far as armor plating goes at this moment in time there is nothing in the field to defend against and EFP.
The HMMV has never been as dependable as the CUCV’s or the Jeep for that matter. They break down too easily, are more difficult to repair and leak fluids from the time they are 2 weeks old. They are, and always have been underpowered. The more armor you add just makes them slower and less agile. It it passed time to replace them. I don’t know what the best replacement would be at this time, but it needs to happens soon. The only advantage over the old Chevy 3/4 ton I ever felt in 16+ years of driving HMMVs was their performance in really sloppy mud and going up steep hills. The HMMV is hard on your entire body whether you are driving or riding. Their equipment carrying capacity is less than the old trucks (not by weight,but by cargo area. Our Secret Service AND Blackwater have been using armored Suburbans for a long time. Funny that the DOD has never expressed an interest in them. Realizing that common sense has no place in the military, our civilian leadership should show some to get the process of moving past the HMMV and current small arms ASAP.
To the best of my Knowledge we entered WWII with the M-3 Grant as our main battle tank and the M-2 Stuart as our light tank.I stand to be corrected but the sherman came along in 42 in North Africa.
To the best of my Knowledge we entered WWII with the M-3 Grant as our main battle tank and the M-2 Stuart as our light tank.I stand to be corrected but the sherman came along in 42 in North Africa.
What was that weird looking tank that had 2 guns & that the Sherman replaced?
don’t waste time with this crap use the stryker that saved my life multiple times from ieds
i like that jeep
JLTV, FCS, FTTS. All baloney. These are all programs
to perpetuate the Humvee/AM General production.
Then A unarmored Humvee.“Neckbreaker”. The Army/Government has some sympathetic notion that GM
has a manifest destiny to own this light vehicle class. The Army does everything it can to ward off anything that might oust GM from this position. GM makes/made a ton of money from the US taxpayer’s subsidizing Humvee “assistance sales to allies. And from the parts orders. The Humvee is as politically correct as possible. But as combat incorrect as can be. The Army knew of it’s shortcoming’s since Bosnia. They drug their feet ever since then. And still do. Anything to protect GM. Gm finally ended up selling that division in the end BAE. Four companies pretty much build everything in the Army Motor pool. BAE, Oshkosh , Freightlinner, General Dynamics. BAE and Freightlinner, both heavily foreign owned.
This generation of TACOM and TARDEC will go down in history as dropping the ball more times than any other in Army wheeled vehicle history.
Loosing two or three people everyday in IRAQ is acceptable in terms of costs verses building the right vehicle in the right state with the right suppliers, just to assure “funding”. This whole war is a fiasco. Allmost half of the deaths are vehicle related.IEds, rollovers, accidents, blast
injuries. Most preventable. Viet-nam, WWll,or Afghanistan. The Army seems to forget everything
when they redeploy to a new environment. The whole thing makes me want to puke.……
after 15 years of working on the HMMV and fixing it all over the world it is judt past its prime and usefulness. they are putting bandaids on a sucking chest wound. every “up-grade” has made the thing more of a nightmare to repair or drive. It was good through the 80’s and 90’s but we need a vehicle designed with armor from the start not an after thought to bolt on after it gets blown up a few times.
The Humvee was originally designed as a recon and utility vehicle. Once in Bosnia, it was apparent of it’s limited tactical use. It just got worse as it was deployed improperly. They were improved. Sure!
But why use a jeep for a truck. A Jeep is a Jeep and a truck is a truck. The Army wants one vehicle to be everything. When a vehicle carries more than it was designed to. It is going to have problems. Tipping over, breaking down, and turning over. So you increase the payload. And all things considered
your back to square one. And the fuel consumption plummets. Humvees were about 60 to 80k originally.
NOW! about 80 to 100k. The armor kit is half the cost. Just some flame cut steel plates and some b.p.glass. Costs as much as the rest of the vehicle. Kinda fishy. Now it rolls over. Especially with a turret. Improper deployment.
Just buy some Cadillac Gage Commandos. Done deal!
Stop using a Humvee for a APC. It’s just stupid! And stop trying to prop up GM with war contracts. At the expense of the solders.
The friend took me to the game, but she own was leaving the game. A person to game is boring, every day, I only know to upgrade and earn ro zeny. I can not sad dot this mess of feelings and moving. Once, the two boys for me quarreled utterly, until I leaved and tool sad. Later, I found a boy to married, I think perhaps all this to change, and I pray to become a reality, a few days after he disappeared. A person was playing a marriage number, what would it have taken place.
Three years ago, after friends introduced, I played the Rappelz game. At that time, I dazed and confused, I like to go my own way, I have a lot of rappelz rupees, but I became the most evil villains in the game. Until I encountered her, I found the meaning of survival.
Yesterday, because I miss you, I go back the game and I want to watch to see. The rohan crone that you give me is also in here. I unexpectedly met you; I think I should stay here because I still think around you. This afternoon, I let you played together me this night, you promised. In the evening I thought you would not have come, but I saw you really come, I really very happy.
My negative, as my boss
thank you