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Home » Logistics » Interrogative Texaco

Interrogative Texaco

More than a few years ago while at 20,000 in the mid­dle of the Med I fin­ished a fuel check and told my trusty nose-​​gunner, Jim “Rev” Jones “We’re fat on gas…2k above lad­der”. Rev, who cut his early cruise teeth in F-​​4 Phantoms off USS Midway, said “You’re never fat on gas”.
After that quick tuto­r­ial on fight­ers and air­borne gas, let’s look at some news that has come out regard­ing the sta­tus of the US Air Force Tanker ques­tion.
First, air­borne tank­ing is a vital ele­ment to our power pro­jec­tion capa­bil­ity. Aside from being a sig­nif­i­cant force mul­ti­plier, in many cases it is a required ele­ment for mis­sion suc­cess. Navy air­craft, even when car­ri­ers can be posi­tioned off­shore of the vast major­ity of hot spots around the world, need fuel to extend mis­sions and pro­vide that mar­gin for error needed when return­ing to your postage stamp of a land­ing field. Air Force air­craft, even when launch­ing from land bases or in the ful­fill­ment of their “global reach” tenet, often times have sig­nif­i­cant dis­tances to fly and loi­ter require­ments. Add in the “time sen­si­tive strike” capa­bil­ity that is vital in this asym­met­ric bat­tle­space and air­borne fuel is essen­tial to mis­sion suc­cess.
EADS North America, the branch of the European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company that is on our side of the pond, is mak­ing an aggres­sive move in the com­pe­ti­tion to be the US Air Force next tanker fleet with a report late last week that they have selected Bridgeport, West Virginia (no idea if Robert Byrd was included in site nego­ti­a­tions there) as the loca­tion for a new aer­ial refu­el­ing cen­ter of excel­lence, IF Northrop Grumman KC-​​30 Tanker is selected as the U.S. Air Forces next gen­er­a­tion aer­ial refu­el­ing air­craft.
I say an aggres­sive move because the hur­dles are high for Northrop Grumman in this sit­u­a­tion given the fact that their KC-​​30 air­craft is based on KC30_F18s_Still.jpgthe Airbus A330 air­liner, cur­rently under deliv­ery to the Royal Australian Air Force and, accord­ing to the afore­men­tioned web site is the U.K. government’s pre­ferred bid­der for its Future Strategic Tanker Aircraft require­ment. One BIG plus in the KC-30’s favor would be the fact that the air­craft would be con­verted to the tanker role in Mobile, Alabama.
The com­pe­ti­tion in this deal is the Boeing KC-​​767A, kc-767a.jpgcur­rently under production/​delivery con­tract to the air forces of Italy and Japan.
Interestingly, both EADS and Boeing have agree­ments with Sargent Fletcher, Inc., of El Monte, Calif. to pro­vide tank­ing hard­ware for their sys­tems. Talk about cor­ner­ing the mar­ket on air­borne refu­el­ing equip­ment.
As a for­mer fighter guy, pulling up to a KC-​​767 or a KC-​​30 mat­ters lit­tle — as long as there is gas to pass. The details of which com­pany or which air­craft is selected to ful­fill the Air Force’s is bet­ter left to bean coun­ters and pencil-​​necked GS-​​types/​contractors in the Pentagon. We need some­thing to replace the increas­ingly aging fleet of KC-​​135 and KC-​​10 air­craft, how­ever, and either of these new sys­tems will suf­fice nicely.

EADS North America and Cobham Select
Bridgeport, West Virginia for an Aerial Refueling Center of Excellence
Charleston, West Virginia; Arlington, Virginia, October 19, 2007
Bridgeport, West Virginia has been selected as the site for a new aer­ial refu­el­ing cen­ter of excel­lence that will pro­vide key com­po­nents for the Northrop Grumman KC-​​30 Tanker. The new facil­ity will pro­duce and sup­port EADS advanced Aerial Refueling Boom System and Cobhams under-​​wing hose and drogue refu­el­ing sys­tem, devel­oped with its U.S. sub­sidiary, Sargent Fletcher. The announce­ment was made by West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin at a press con­fer­ence held in the State Capitol build­ing.
The pro­duc­tion site, cho­sen after an eval­u­a­tion that con­sid­ered loca­tions in sev­eral states, will be estab­lished if the Northrop Grumman KC-​​30 Tanker is selected as the U.S. Air Forces next gen­er­a­tion aer­ial refu­el­ing air­craft. The facil­ity will employ at least 100 skilled work­ers, and is to co-​​locate the pro­duc­tion oper­a­tions of EADS North America and Sargent Fletcher into two adja­cent facil­i­ties at Harrison Countys North Central West Virginia Regional Airport.
EADS North America will sup­ply the KC-​​30 Tankers fly-​​by-​​wire Aerial Refueling Boom System from a new 32,000 sq. ft. pro­duc­tion site, while Sargent Fletcher is to build the air­crafts two dig­i­tal under­wing hose and drogue pods at an adja­cent 25,000 sq. ft. facil­ity.
We exam­ined a num­ber of sites across the coun­try and chose Bridgeport because it offers a solid com­bi­na­tion of loca­tion, com­mu­nity sup­port and skilled work­force nec­es­sary to exe­cute this crit­i­cal national secu­rity pro­gram, said EADS North America Chairman and CEO Ralph D. Crosby, Jr. In par­tic­u­lar, Governor Manchin and the West Virginia con­gres­sional del­e­ga­tion have a demon­strated record of sup­port for indus­try. This invest­ment deci­sion — along with our pre­vi­ous selec­tion of Mobile, Alabama as the poten­tial site of the KC-​​30 Tanker final assem­bly facil­ity — reflects EADS firm com­mit­ment to cre­ate jobs and insource advanced crit­i­cal tech­nolo­gies into the United States.
EADS North Americas Aerial Refueling Boom System (ARBS) is the most capa­ble in-​​flight refu­el­ing sys­tem avail­able today. Its fly-​​by-​​wire design fea­tures enhanced con­trol­la­bil­ity and incor­po­rates an auto­matic load alle­vi­a­tion sys­tem, which greatly aids the boom oper­a­tor and the receiver air­crafts pilot dur­ing refu­el­ing operations. 


Sargent Fletcher is the leader in the mil­i­tary hose and drogue refu­el­ing indus­try. All under-​​wing pods presently used by the U.S. Department of Defense are Sargent Fletcher prod­ucts, and the com­pany is the worlds only pro­ducer of an FAA-​​certified under-​​wing refu­el­ing pod.
Although the Air Force has not com­pleted selec­tion of the con­trac­tor to build the new refu­el­ing air­craft, EADS and Sargent Fletchers com­mit­ment to West Virginia reaf­firms that we are mak­ing great progress in attract­ing world-​​class com­pa­nies to the Mountain State, West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin said. These would be good-​​paying jobs with ben­e­fits, and it would open the door to addi­tional aero­space and defense con­trac­tor oppor­tu­ni­ties. If final­ized, this new aer­ial refu­el­ing cen­ter of excel­lence will be an impor­tant addi­tion to our grow­ing aero­space and high-​​technology indus­tries.
The EADS advanced aer­ial boom which is 40 ft. long and weighs approx­i­mately 2.5 tons is already present on the first of five KC-​​30B Multi-​​role Tanker/​Transport air­craft that EADS is sup­ply­ing to the Royal Australian Air Force. With the capac­ity to offload up to 1,200 gal­lons of fuel per minute, the ARBS is eas­ily adapt­able to future mis­sion require­ments, includ­ing the refu­el­ing of unmanned aer­ial vehi­cles (UAVs).
Sargent Fletcher will sup­ply the Northrop Grumman KC-​​30s two FRL 905E-​​series hose and drogue refu­el­ing pods, which are the most mod­ern in ser­vice today. These all-​​digital elec­tric pods carry their own power sys­tem and can offload approx­i­mately 420 gal­lons of fuel per minute. Fitted with 90-​​ft. long hoses, they are designed for use with probe-​​equipped receiver air­craft, and are mounted on pre-​​existing out­board wing struc­tures under the KC-​​30 Tankers wings. A Sargent Fletcher fuse­lage refu­el­ing unit, which uti­lizes the hose and drogue sys­tem as well, also will be part of the KC-​​30s refu­el­ing capa­bil­ity. It is located within the air­craft fuse­lage, near the boom and can be uti­lized to refuel probe-​​equipped U.S. Navy/​Marine air­craft, along with those of allied forces.
I con­grat­u­late our KC-​​30 Tanker team part­ners, EADS North America and Sargent Fletcher, on their selec­tion of West Virginia., said Paul Meyer, Northrop Grumman vice pres­i­dent and gen­eral man­ager of the KC-​​30 pro­gram. This indus­trial announce­ment is strong evi­dence of the KC-​​30 Teams focus on risk reduc­tion, eco­nomic expan­sion in America and com­mit­ment to be a cat­a­lyst for the cre­ation of new cen­ters of aero­space excel­lence nation­wide.
In addi­tion to ARBS assem­bly activ­i­ties for the U.S. Air Force KC-​​30 Tankers, EADS North Americas West Virginia facil­ity also will pro­vide long-​​term sup­port and main­te­nance for the boom on in-​​service air­craft. EADS North America has sig­nif­i­cantly expanded its U.S. indus­trial foot­print since the com­pa­nys cre­ation in 2003. New loca­tions include the rapidly-​​expanding heli­copter cen­ter of its American Eurocopter busi­ness unit at Mississippis Golden Triangle Region (which is pro­duc­ing UH-​​72A Lakota heli­copters for the U.S. Army, along with other rotary-​​wing air­craft for home­land secu­rity mis­sions); EADS CASA North Americas Mobile, Alabama cus­tomer sup­port and train­ing cen­ter, which will sup­port the U.S. Coast Guards new HC-​​144A mar­itime patrol air­craft; and a facil­ity in Russellville, Arkansas for EADS North Americas Integrated Shelter System operation.

– Pinch Paisley

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October 22nd, 2007 | Logistics | 261316 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2007/10/22/interrogative-texaco/Interrogative+Texaco2007-10-22+20%3A35%3A12murdoc You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

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  1. Mark Pyruz says:
    October 22, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    KC’s and Phantoms. I recall the KC 707-​​3J9C /​ F-​​14A combo in ser­vice with the Imperial Iranian Air Force. The Iranian tankers were equipped with Beech 1800 refu­elling pods, which included an air dri­ven pump, a hose reel and droque bas­ket. Added to that, Iranian KC’s could carry spe­cial hose and droque adapters on the tanker’s refu­elling booms. Sound famil­iar? Big news back then, old news now. Still, it per­formed well for the IRIAF through­out the Iran-​​Iraq War, allow­ing Tomcats the abil­ity to chase down MiG-25’s, as well as remain­ing on CAP sta­tions for over 12 hours at a time.

    Reply
  2. Roy Smith says:
    October 22, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Sen. McCain was brag­ging on Fox News how he sent peo­ple to jail over try­ing to buy a new tanker.I read some­where that there was a pos­si­bil­ity of mak­ing a Boeing 777 into a tanker & that it was sup­posed to be big­ger than the 767. I guess they could make an airship(blimp/zeppelin) into a tanker,but it would be absurd to expect a super­sonic jet to slow down that much for a refill,at least I sup­pose so​.As far as Mccain goes,is he also going to send peo­ple to jail for choos­ing a Chinook over the H-​​92 Superhawk or US101 heli­copters? I wish he’d send peo­ple to jail for the MRAP fiasco,that is if he REALLY cared about the troops.

    Reply
  3. 22lr says:
    October 22, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    Id say give the con­tract to Boeing. Look how long those air­planes last, heck the KC135 is still around and fly­ing. I just don’t think Airbus has earned my respect yet. But that is just me, im sure Airbus is good, but I don’t see how any­thing can be as good as Boeing. Besides it doesn’t hurt to buy American.

    Reply
  4. Pinch says:
    October 22, 2007 at 9:17 pm

    22lr,
    You caught the under­ly­ing gist of my open­ing com­ments. Even hav­ing the final assem­bly in Mobile doesn’t take much away from the fact that Airbus is a French-​​led con­sor­tium and buy­ing those 330’s would be a sec­ond slap in the face of American aero­space, along with the AgustaWestland/​Lockheed Martin VH-​​7, the new Presidential heli­copter.
    Pinch

    Reply
  5. Solomon says:
    October 23, 2007 at 2:05 am

    Auburn was LSU Tiger bait and the idea of buy­ing A330’s sucks too. Follow the money (I know every­one has already hit on this) but I find it IRONIC that the Europeans refuse to pur­chase Boeing air­craft that are as good and cheaper, yet there appears to be a rush to field as many air­craft from EADS as pos­si­ble! If this thing is about mak­ing friends then it would prob­a­bly be bet­ter to buy small arms from Singapore, Cruisers from Australia and Satellites from Japan than send­ing one dol­lar more to the European Union.

    Reply
  6. Pinch says:
    October 23, 2007 at 5:45 am

    Solomon,
    Nice dig on the game there, pal! One in a mil­lion catch — gotta hand it to Miles and the Bayou boys. Ballsy move. AU had great cov­er­age, as well, on that pass.
    I agree with your com­ment. The sub­si­dies that pour into Airbus are by and large the main dis­crim­i­na­tor between the air­craft. Going with Boeing would be my vote.
    Pinch

    Reply
  7. SMSgt Mac says:
    October 23, 2007 at 7:14 am

    I am on record many times as NOT being an Airbus fan for a lot of reasons–most impor­tantly they do not have a true avi­a­tion mind­set and cul­ture. I also believe as lead con­trac­tor, Northrop Grumman (dis­clo­sure: my employer) and AF con­tract man­age­ment can do for the KC-​​30 what the AF did with the KC-10,which in early DC-​​10 guise was a problem-​​riddled beast. Taxpayer dol­lars helped make the later DC-​​10 a great prod­uct (the GE CF-​​34 engine is another exam­ple of tax­payer dol­lars mak­ing a bet­ter com­mer­cial prod­uct).
    If the con­tract is com­peted sans pol­i­tics, it will go to the KC-​​30 if gas/​tanker ratio is more impor­tant than num­bers of tankers and the cargo/​secondary mis­sion is given its proper due. If the con­tract comes down to gas-​​only con­sid­er­a­tions (yes there is a “tanker mafia”) the Boeing prod­uct will win going away.
    As to where the con­tract might be going, I find it inter­est­ing that in this week’s AV Week, Boeing’s ad punches up the point they aren’t offer­ing any more than what they think the AF needs: a ‘best value’ pitch. This is a marked depar­ture from their past gov­ernemnt com­petion strate­gies where they just empha­sized the ‘best’ aspect.

    Reply
  8. Beancounter says:
    October 23, 2007 at 8:43 am

    If you were still fly­ing, per­haps you would think twice about insult­ing you fel­low Americans by call­ing them “pencil-​​necked”, when your life depends on the work they do. A few of those “pencil-​​necks” I knew could pull one of your ears out through the other for such a com­ment. And what the hell do we care if Boeing loses the contract..let’s give it to the French.

    Reply
  9. George Skinner says:
    October 23, 2007 at 5:09 pm

    The prob­lem with Boeing’s pro­posal is that it’s based on an air­craft near­ing the end of its prod­uct life (i.e. it’s about to be dis­con­tin­ued by the man­u­fac­turer.) The key prob­lems with the KC-​​135 fleet is 1) the air­frames are wear­ing out, 2) the planes are increas­ingly dif­fi­cult to sup­port because the parts are no longer avail­able, and 3) they’re not very fuel-​​efficient. The 767 will address 1), but using an older design isn’t going to do much for 2) or 3). And even 1) isn’t the biggest prob­lem for the KC-​​135s, as they’re early model 707s with­out win­dows. They’ve got a pretty sturdy struc­ture already because Boeing was incred­i­bly aware of the DH Comet fatigue fail­ures a few years ear­lier, and the lack of win­dows reduces a major source of fatigue on the fuse­lage. Unfortunately, Boeing is in no posi­tion to offer the 787 as a tanker to get new tech­nol­ogy in there, and the 777 is really too big. I think they were hop­ing to get a fast deal done with the AF to keep the 767 line open a lit­tle longer and make some more money from an exist­ing prod­uct at the end of its life.
    On the other hand, I’m not sure the A330 is such a great plat­form either, given the dif­fer­ences in design phi­los­o­phy between Airbus and Boeing. Airbus has always been more about fly-​​by-​​wire for “care­free han­dling” (i.e. let the com­puter limit how the pilot can maneu­ver) and small engines opti­mized for cruise effi­ciency. Boeing’s phi­los­o­phy is to use FBW, but let the pilot bend the plane if needed, and also put on rel­a­tively larger engines for take-​​off power and throt­tle back in flight. Both approaches work out fairly well for the civil­ian mar­ket, but the Boeing one seems like a bet­ter fit for the mil­i­tary appli­ca­tion. If you’re try­ing to avoid a SAM or fly at low level, shouldn’t the pilot have more power and con­trol authority?

    Reply
  10. ak says:
    October 23, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    Given that the 767 is in ser­vice by the 1000s, wouldn’t it’s fatigue life & stress points would be pretty well known by now? The pro­gram seems to bor­der­ing on the ridicu­lous as a whole, but I don’t think the air­craft itself is in any way unsuited to the role.

    Reply
  11. irtusk says:
    October 24, 2007 at 1:13 am

    > Given that the 767 is in ser­vice by the 1000s, wouldn’t it’s fatigue life & stress points would be pretty well known by now?
    the A330 has been in ser­vice plenty long, in fact they’re already tak­ing orders for it’s replace­ment (A350)
    > If the con­tract comes down to gas-​​only con­sid­er­a­tions (yes there is a “tanker mafia”) the Boeing prod­uct will win going away.
    how so?
    if the KC-​​30 car­ries more gas fur­ther and costs less to boot …
    as far as ‘booms in the air’ argu­ments i see cer­tain places, that’s just stu­pid talk. If they were really con­cerned about booms in the air, the F-​​35A would have a refu­elling proble like the B and C vari­ants. You can tank 3 planes with probes at once from one plane. Tripling the num­ber of planes that can be refu­elled at once seems a heck of a lot more impor­tant than some mar­ginal per­cent­age argu­ment about avail­able air­ports and ramp space.

    Reply
  12. Emmett says:
    October 24, 2007 at 9:18 am

    With more than a few years in avi­a­tion I can say the fol­low­ing: the Airbus is a com­pe­tent prod­uct from a man­u­fac­turer that makes dis­pos­able air­frames.
    The Boeing prod­uct is prob­a­bly more main­tain­able and more repairable.
    As a bar­gain­ing tech­nique I would look hard at the air­bus, then I’d take every advan­tage of the fact that the devel­op­ment costs of the Boeing are long since paid. I pre­fer to have mil­i­tary prod­ucts made within our shores by peo­ple I can drag in front of Congress.
    But my biggest con­cern with either is they are basic civil­ian air­liner air­frames. We rou­tinely con­tract air­craft for a 20 years ser­vice life and then fly them for 40 in the mil­i­tary. I want over­built air­frames. I want carrier-​​qualified air­frames, not because that is thier role, but because they have to last. I worry about both air­frames in that respect.
    I per­son­ally know of a P-​​3 that will leave Guam in pieces because we broke some­thing solid in the wing­box in a typhoon. But it brought us home.
    Emmett

    Reply
  13. George Skinner says:
    October 24, 2007 at 1:12 pm

    AK,
    I didn’t mean to imply that there are any fatigue prob­lems with the 767 air­frame, just that fatigue isn’t the big prob­lem with the exist­ing KC-​​135 air­frame. The big­ger prob­lems with the KC-​​135 are fuel effi­ciency and sup­port­ing an aging design. The 767 is an improve­ment over the KC-​​135 in those respects, but not exactly a long-​​term solu­tion given that it’s also a 25-​​year old design.
    Regarding boom vs. drogue refu­el­ing, 3 drogues vs. 1 boom cer­tainly pro­vides the abil­ity to refuel more than one plane at a time. However, the advan­tage of a boom is sup­posed to be a higher fuel trans­fer rate com­pared to a drogue. The higher refu­el­ing rate is pretty impor­tant when you’re try­ing to refuel large air­craft like bombers or cargo planes, not so much when you’re refu­el­ing tac­ti­cal air­craft. Still, how does the air­borne refu­el­ing time of a plane on a boom com­pare to one on a drogue? Could be that refu­el­ing 3 planes in suc­ces­sion off a sin­gle boom is still faster than 3 in par­al­lel off 3 drogues.

    Reply
  14. irtusk says:
    October 25, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    > Still, how does the air­borne refu­el­ing time of a plane on a boom com­pare to one on a drogue? Could be that refu­el­ing 3 planes in suc­ces­sion off a sin­gle boom is still faster than 3 in par­al­lel off 3 drogues.
    boom:
    KC-​​30 = 1200 gal/​min
    KC-​​10 = 1100 gal/​min
    KC-​​135 = 1000 gal/​min
    KC-​​767 = 900+ gal/​min
    cen­ter hose:
    KC-​​30 = 600 gal/​min
    KC-​​767 = 600 gal/​min
    KC-​​10 = 470 gal/​min
    wing hose:
    KC-​​30 = 420 gal/​min
    KC-​​767 = 400 gal/​min
    KC-​​135 = 400 gal/​min
    raw offload capac­ity of KC-​​30
    1 boom = 1200 gal/​min
    3 hose = 600+420+420 = 1440 gal/​min
    another impor­tant fac­tor to con­sider is speed of the receiver. No cur­rent ‘small’ plane can max out a KC-​​135 boom (1000 gal/​min) except the F-​​111, and that only for a short period until some of the smaller fuel tanks fill up
    i’m not sure of the actual num­bers, but let’s say that the stan­dard fighter can accept 800 gal/​min (prob­a­bly being very gen­er­ous here)
    adjusted offload capac­ity of KC-​​30:
    1 boom = 800 gal/​min
    3 hose = 600+420+420 = 1440 gal/​min
    that’s a pretty sub­stan­tial dif­fer­ence
    yes, big planes (C-​​5, C-​​17, B-​​52, etc) should use booms, but there’s no rea­son for small planes to use them

    Reply
  15. robur says:
    October 26, 2007 at 1:43 am

    If the lifes­pan of the B-​​52 can be extended by decades, the KCs can be extended as well. If fuel econ­omy is the prob­lem, they can be re-​​engined. Even that would be cheaper than new air­craft. The ser­vices do not need new tanker aircraft.

    Reply

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