Comments on: Disband the DC Punditocracy

By: airman

airman — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 19:44:38 +0000

The obvious ignorance of the air force's mission his almost hilarious from people of different services. Ask the ground controllers, the army guyus, navy who's lives have been saved by pricision airstrikes from the Air Force's fleet of A-10's, fighters, b1 bombers ac-130's? Look at the absolute disproprtionate casualty rate in OUR FAVOR, since Vietnam, granted we've lost thousands, but how much have our enemies lost? Hrmm, how much did airpower contribute to the War in the Balkans, how about ALL OF IT! Yes F-22's do not meet the criteria of our threat today, but out threat or wars of tomorrow. In this ever changing world, and fierce competition of air superiority from the Russians, we MUST keep a competative edge. Look at history, anything can happen, our friends can soon be our enemies. Do you want to be on the winning side?

By: stephen russell

stephen russell — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:18:24 +0000

Bogus BS DC rant & ravings.
For this debate I feel the following:
Merge USN Air Force & USAF into 1.
Merge US Army & Marines.
USCG can be under Navy as always.
Or combo Navy & ICE.
KISS.
Simplfy, simplify.
One new command Id estd:
COUNTER TERRORISIM COMMAND
& merge with SOCOM?
Re organize Army & Marines into:
Tactical Field Combat Command
Combat Eng Command
Support Command
Intelligence Forces Command
SeaForce Command
Rapid Deployment Strike Command.
For Navy & Air Force:
Tactical Command
Marine Defense Command (with USCG).
SeaForce Command.
Air Mobility Command
Training Command
Undersea Forces Command.
Base Support Command ( include shipyards & depots).
NORAD Command.
CONUS Air Defense Command.
Space Defense Command (with NORAD).
Intelligence Command?? with US Army & Marines.
& close up those miscl agencies in the DOD alone for Savings.
Combine R&D, Procurement under 1 roof.
GAO & CBO oversee budgets.
Involve CAGW.org in the Budget mix.
Win Win.

By: Emas

Emas — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:27:24 +0000

“The Navy has managed to put exactly one new type of aircraft on carrier decks in the past 25 year“
Well, not really– both the pro and anti F18 folks know that the F18 E/F is really a new plane. It was a savvy way to get it through the approval process. I forget the details– but a full blown competition would have been legally required, for one thing.
If the Cold War was still on things would be different– a rebooted A12 or even a naval F22 would have been lobbied for. With the “peace dividend” the F18E/F was seen as a good way to go.

By: NTV

NTV — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:29:38 +0000

Solomon.
“The Air Force has yet to establish a future path for the inclusion of UAVs into its own force, much less DOD wide.“
Huh? The AF currently owns and opperates a number of UAV’s in its own force, and is planing on expanding their use in the near futuer. The AF curently has a highly integrated system to obtain and process information from the UAV’s that they operate. As I said, there are plenty of arguments to be made for the AF to not be an executive agent, but to suggest that they should be disbanded is a stretch.
“You avoided discussions of the X-45 why?” Because it doesnt necisarily indicate much of anything, when the AF has alrady shown that it is working on its own UAV’s. I also think they think a maned bomber is a better use of thier funds in the next 20 years. I did notice that you ignored many of my points as well, Why? What about the AF’s record of currently useing UAV’s? Wha about the procurment issues of the other services?
“No one has said that the Air Force is not a military service. “
Well in your other post you said this.
” It is a separate service. I was attempting to say that they are not acting as part of the War Winning Team. And they aren’t. A sad truth is that many service people consider the Air Force a corporate entity and not a true member of the armed services. “
Not a true member of the armed services?????
“I do stand by the contention that members of the other services consider it to operate more in a corporate style than that of a military organization.“
Yes the AF has always been held in low regard by the other services as being more “buisness” like. And that matters how? The AF’s mission is what it is, and its different than the Army and Marines. And,in the end, it doesnt make one bit of difference. If they want to bitch and moan, they can but AF could care less, They have a job to do, and willdo it.
Like I have sais a number of times, Tell me what the missions of the AF are, and how they can be better served by the other services, both nao and 20–30 years into the future.

By: Solomon

Solomon — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:47:35 +0000

Hmmm where to start???
Doc75
I’ve read Mein Kampf but I’m not a Nazi, so why does my reading of any publication mean that I am aligned with their values? Thats being simplistic. Keeping with the theme I started, although I definitely applaud the work done by the Air Force Capt you sited-that does not mean that I do not recognize the deficits of the organization that he belongs to. Their are many accounts of individual heroism performed by members of the SS yet many would still say that it was a flawed organization. That same line of reasoning extends to the present day Air Force.
NTV
The Air Force has yet to establish a future path for the inclusion of UAVs into its own force, much less DOD wide. The Army has its network based Brigade Combat Teams in which the recon aspects of the UAV will be touted. The Navy and Marines have their doctrinal publication to provide a blueprint of future UAV needs. The Air Force simply have not done their homework on this subject. You avoided discussions of the X-45 why? It is the next evolution of the UCAV and the Air Force is late to the game. That program alone is an indication of why they should not have control of DOD UAV procurement programs.
No one has said that the Air Force is not a military service. I do stand by the contention that members of the other services consider it to operate more in a corporate style than that of a military organization.
As I have said earlier, the Air Force is on notice that its performance has at least caught the attention of the public and we do not like what we see.

By: NTotmail.comV

NTotmail.comV — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:03:32 +0000

Solomon–
To say that the AF hasnt been willing to develop UAV’s is off base. The AF has been in the UAV developing UAV’s for 15 years now. Dark Star. Global Hawk, Predator are examples of that. Remember also that the AF is only concerned about MEDIUM and HIGH altitude UAV’s. They are not trying to control the Micro UAV’s Besides if the Army was so “with it” why didnt they develop their own UAV, instead of revive the Navy’s Fire Scout? And again the AF is looking not to control the medium and high altitude UAV’s, but the AF wants to be in charge of developing and building them. this would build on their existing exepriance working with the UAV’s listed above as well as the U-2’s and RC-135’s. Now we can argue whether this is all a good idea its hardley a reason to disband the AF.
“So please tell me why the other services should cede UAV development to a service that has such a spotty and fragmented record?“
This is a contining theme here, and yet you and others fail to look at the flaws in the other services aquisition proccesses. Those are hardley steller.
“A sad truth is that many service people consider the Air Force a corporate entity and not a true member of the armed services. Their actions over the past 5 years bear that out. They are the ultimate example of perception (they suck) being reality. “
Those that think that way are being uttelry obtuse. The AF is consistently invloved in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as continueing its other missions. To say they are not true memembers of the armed services is truley ignorant. Yes, the Amry and Marines are bearing the brunt of the fighting, but thats the nature of this war. But no one can look at the AF and say that they are not part of the armed srvices.

By: doc75

doc75 — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:04:31 +0000

Solomon, are you a regular American Prospect reader? Sounds like you reveal a lot about who you are when you say “as ultra conservatives might say “serve a false master.”” Ultra-conservatives or religious people? Hey, what’s a little intolerance by self-appointed tolerant people like you?
Anyway, the Air Force has been part of the war winning team for five years both in direct support of the ground forces and independent of it. I would put guys like Captain Scott Markle forward as an example. You see, the F-22 loving Air Force leadership selected Capt Markle as the Mackay Trophy winner this year. Previous winners included Hap Arnold, Eddie Rickenbacker, Jimmy Doolittle and Chuck Yeager. Capt Markle, an A-10 pilot, received the award for *gasp* providing close air support for special operations forces engaged by the Taliban.
Fortunately, Capt Markle was able to perform his duties in an environment without centralized joint air control of UAVs and the comm interference that results from having so many UAVs bought by so many different services operating in the same airspace. Also, Capt Markle amazingly demonstrated the power of aerospace in the counter-insurgency environment as so apply demonstrated in the Air Force’s recently published COIN doctrine.
But, that won’t appeal to you. In your eyes, Capt Markle sucks and is part of a corporate entity. You believe he is not part of the war winning team. I bet the guys on the ground would disagree.
As for me, Scott Markle is another example of the fine bluesuiters I served with for nearly ten years. I found people like him throughout the service and they understood their mission and their role as part of the joint team.

By: Solomon

Solomon — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:57:43 +0000

NTV
“Why do people get upset when The AIR Force wants control over AIR vehicles“
Because the Air Force has yet to demonstrate a desire to fully develop these vehicles. The Air Force dropped the X-45 attack drone and left it to the Navy to continue on with the X-47 on its own. Now belatedly the Air Force is again (after a PITIFUL-SORRY-SHAMEFUL DELAY) pursuing the attack UAV program again. The Army’s future UAV, the fire scout, is rotary winged and was no where on the Air Force’s radar. The Marines were at the forefront of Micro UAV development with no input from the Air Force. So please tell me why the other services should cede UAV development to a service that has such a spotty and fragmented record? Certain weapon systems are common to combat operations and their usage crosses domains, the UAV is one of those.
“As for their CION manual, doesnt it seem to make sense that idividual services examine how they fit in the larger picture“
Another calculated and pathetic example of Air Force malfeasance. The Army and Marine Corps cooperated on the publication of the current COIN manual. The Air Force re-created the wheel as a publicity stunt and it backfired beautifully. The whole purpose of the Air Force’s production of a COIN manual was to again worship at the alter of AIR POWER ALONE WINNING WARS! The Air Force as ultra conservatives might say “serve a false master.“
“As for acting seperate I would suggest that you take a look at their actual actions over the last 5 years.“
It is a separate service. I was attempting to say that they are not acting as part of the War Winning Team. And they aren’t. A sad truth is that many service people consider the Air Force a corporate entity and not a true member of the armed services. Their actions over the past 5 years bear that out. They are the ultimate example of perception (they suck) being reality.

By: NTV

NTV — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:25:41 +0000

Solomon, Would people have problems if the US Navy wanted to take charge of USV’s or AUV’s? Why do people get upset when The AIR Force wants control over AIR vehicles. Maybe they would mess things up, but people here want efficency, but yet they apparently dont mind the 4 services having overlapping UAV’s.
As for their CION manual, doesnt it seem to make sense that idividual services examine how they fit in the larger picture.
As for acting seperate I would suggest that you take a look at their actual actions over the last 5 years.

By: Solomon

Solomon — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:37:19 +0000

Doc 75,
”…determines the needed capabilities and the services package them together and provide them…“
Believe me Doc, I’m aware of the provisioning of units to the different Combatant Commanders in theater. I was referring to the different services “organizational mindset.” The Air Force appears to be acting with little regard to the fighting thats going on. Attempts made to take charge of the UAV programs Pentagon wide? Devising its own counter insurgency manual? Those are the actions of a Service Branch that acts not as part of a war fighting team but as a separate war winning force. The Air Force’s culture is in disarray. People have noticed and are alarmed.
“If there wasn’t a political motive behind it, then why publish in American Prospect instead of Armed Forces Journal?“
I don’t know and its of no concern. If this piece had been printed in the Weekly Standard would your criticism have been any less? I hope not. Politics are not the issue. The “punditocracy” is.