NATO is desperately short of attack and transport helicopters that can support its International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan, senior sources in NATO Headquarters say. In recent weeks, the alliance has been examining multiple options to correct the shortfall.
Proposals on the table range from improved training and logistic support for deployed helicopters, to a commonly funded modernization of 20-odd Russian-built, Czech-owned Mil Mi-8 Hip transport helos that could then be used to form a multinational transport pool for Afghanistan-type operations.
Representatives from several NATO nations will be discussing these options at a seminar in Brussels, a senior European diplomat in NATO Headquarters tells Aviation Week & Space Technology.
“I believe the U.S. will also shortly come forward with specific proposals to help solve this problem,” he adds.
The helicopter shortage is the “single biggest operational problem” that is hampering the day-to-day operations of ISAF, a 41,000-strong multinational mission led by NATO and comprising troops from 38 nations, including 14 that are not members of the alliance.
“Were beseeching, begging, doing everything we can to convince nations to contribute more rotary-wing aviation assets, both transport helicopters and attack helicopters,” a Canadian NATO official says.
“Its not that NATO nations dont have helicopters. The problem is that theyre very expensive to ship to Afghanistan and to operate and maintain them there. I think there are several nations that prefer to keep their helicopters at home for this reason.”
At the Shephard Heli-Power conference in The Hague, operational commanders stressed that ISAF is struggling with a “constant imbalance of demand versus availability of both attack and transport helicopters.”
“Without helicopters, operations in southern Afghanistan are not possible. Theres a lack of road infrastructure and a high threat of improvised explosive devices and ambushes by Taliban and other opposing militant forces,” says Maj. Gen. Ton van Loon of the Royal Netherlands Army. He returned from Kandahar earlier this year after having commanded ISAFs Regional Command (RC) South.
Read more about NATO’s helo woes from our Aviation Week partners at Military.com.
Russian Helicopters did operate okay in Afghanistan with the main threat against them being the Stinger missile.Would the Upgraded Mi-8 Hip helicopters be permanently deployed to Afghanistan? Maybe they could also permanently Deploy some Mi-24 Hinds in Afghanistan for attack/troop deployment options.
Hey,s****y helicopters for a s****y environment.
Forgive me for being so damn off topic,but why doesn’t NATO & the U.S. also use pack animals for the rugged terrain of Afghanistan? I know that they can’t fly,but wouldn’t pack mules,Bactrian & F2 Hybrid Camels,& Llamas also help with moving supplies up mountains & roadless terrain? I know that the idea of using living breathing animals is not high tech,but Pakistan & India don’t seem to have problems with using animals in rugged terrain,& helicopters can’t land EVERYWHERE in Afghanistan.
So where’s Ward on this one? Isn’t this EXACTLY the mission of the oh so capabale V-22 Osprey? I seem to recall some dogging here of the AF choice of the Chinook for CSAR-X too (which, of course, is the ONLY helo capable of working consistantly in this environment).
Roy,
Find us a pack mule that can haul a dozen soldiers 100 miles in a day and I’m sure we’d be all over it.
“Isn’t this EXACTLY the mission of the oh so capabale V-22 Osprey?“
HA!
What is the unit price of the V-22? $100 million? You could probably buy the world’s fleet of Mi-8 ‘s for $500 million or so–
Solomon,
It’s called SARCASM, you can Google it.
Cheers.
This seems to be a NATO issue and not a US military issue. In fact, there are references to asking for assistance from the US.
So all of this talk of the V-22 and so forth is moot, regardless of sarcasm.
As always, it boils down to the bottom dollar for these countries. Send more helicopters over to Afghanistan at our expense, couldn’t happen.
DC2
Grandjester
I read your statement and then responded to it. If my thinking is flawed please explain how so. If your statement was meant to be humorous then I definitely missed it.
Solomon,
You might note my opening line was a dig at Ward, I have been a long time Osprey critic here and have gotten into some heated exchanges with Ward and others on it’s shortcomings. The CSAR-X comment was made in the same vein.
hey the hind isn’t s***y
the mi-24 is the dogg’s b*****‘s
in the iran iraq war american made cobras fought against them and the hinds gengeraly one its one of the few helicopters that can drop a decent amount of bombs its so tough they call it the flying tank i saw a video of one hit with an helicopter launched anti tank missle right in the middle and it kept flying there so well armed that if you realy wanted to and had the right model hind you could put 21 miniguns on it and fire them all at once and after afganistan the russians put big arse flare systems on it that can litteraly just keep dropping flares every few seconds for the entire mission
sure there out of date now no question
but know one calls my favoite tank errr
helicopter s***y
These emails have been a little broad. There is a lot to criticize/ridicule here.
One– the sad lack of resolve by some NATO forces to equip their men with anything more useful than a corkscrew.
Two– The sad Western tendency to make goldplated weapons, made by union labor in five politically located factories and assembled in a sixth.
Three– the really sad priority of armies to stock up on sexy weapons when boring logistics are ignored.
The Osprey criticism is warranted — so is the expensive Merlin. I remember reading British press that they could have bought almost twice as many Chinooks for the Merlins they have.
The Osprey– well ad nauseum etc, etc– but we could have reoplaced the Sea Knight with S-92’s, Merlins, whatever, at least ten years ago for about half the cost. Many of those could be in Afghanistan now– instead of that token force in Iraq (have any crashed yet?)
Concerning pack mules,I was thinking in terms of steep mountain trails where vehicles could not operate & soldiers would have to operate dismounted with pack mules or any other sort of pack animals carrying the heavy loads,like broken down(disassembled) 105mm pack howitzers or 120mm mortars.Concerning Mi-8 Hip & Mi-24 Hind helicopters being s****y,I was being sarcastic.
Sorry,off topic again.Breed a Belgian or Percheron horse with a Mammoth Donkey(yes there is such a breed) & you get a pretty big pack mule.
It is sad & pathetic that NATO won’t invest helicopters to the mission.If they permanently deploy Mi-8 Hip Helicopters to Afghanistan though,who will be the principle operators of them? It seems like a good idea to keep the Mi-8s permanently parked in Afghanistan & give them to the Afghan government when the NATO mission is accomplished.
It doesn’t seem to matter what kind of helicopters NATO nations have or how appropriate they are for the mission,they just don’t want to send ANY of their helicopters to Afghanistan.Maybe the UH-72 Lakotas could operate in Afghanistan since the heat won’t always get up to 105 degrees & cause them to overheat.EH-101 Merlin,H-47 Chinook,H-92 Superhawk,it doesn’t matter.NATO(excluding The UK,Canada,the US,Poland,& non-NATO ally Australia) doesn’t want to commit their helicopters or pretty much any other equipment to the Afghan mission.
Does anybody have an opinion about upgrading & committing Czech Mi-8 Hip helicopters to Afghanistan & would 20 of them be enough?
Roy,
You seem to be under the impression that “boots on the ground” actually means boots on the ground. American troops aren’t going anywhere that they don’t have a helo/hummer chauffeur. Look at Iraq, COIN would dictate that INFANTRY, using foot patrols, would be the correct solution to the IED/EFP situation, but no, we are spending a million bucks a pop on MRAPS.
Nope, no pack animals and foot sloggin’ for our boys. Gotta have AC and an iPod input to go into battle these days.
Grandjester,
Duh,what was I thinking?
I forgot to mention Yaks & Pack Goats as pack animals.
I agree with the article, we (as in NATO and non-NATO countries who want to participate) need to have joint helicopter exercises. The basic gist of the article is that nations have to practice together to get the real life scenarios right. In addition, member countries have to spend money to get more of their choppers over to Afghanistan to help out their troops. What else are they going to use the choppers? And if money is an issue… I really don’t have a solution for that one… how are they paying for their assets already over there?
Did not know Pack Mules could Fly
Put a pack mule in a C-130,C-17,or C-5 & of course they can fly.They can even fly in a C-47 or CH-53.I just don’t know how they would react to being airdropped.
Sorry.I meant CH-47.
I suggest we send “build it yourself” helicopter kits to Afghanistan & they can put them together over there.Does anybody know any “build it yourself” medium & large helicopter kits on the market.….….….….….….….….……Duh,Of course I’m being Sarcastic.
The S-92 doesn’t meet the requirements of the JORD and if you want to complain about per copy cost of the MV-22 explain buying in bulk to people like Cheney and Chu.
Sorry for off topic & going on a tangent about MBTs.
Back to helicopters,I just haven’t seen or heard anything about any of the “premier” Eurocopter or Agusta Westland helicopters,except those operated by The UK,operating in Afghanistan.
@ SATCtech
Exactly what JORD are you referring to?
Hmm a slight dig at “Abolish the Air Force” mongers out there:
Why are the Europeans having so much trouble getting their Helis to Afghanistan?
Because so far, the only real way to ship them in is by air, and in this case the only viable methods are contract AN-124s, or the C-17’s and C-5’s of the US Air Force.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen equipment from European countries on American Airlift. For all their bluster and talk they really have no way of getting assets in-theater, which is precisely why Sweden and Germany are in talks to buy the C-17.
“The S-92 doesn’t meet the requirements of the JORD and if you want to complain about per copy cost of the MV-22 explain buying in bulk to people like Cheney and Chu.“
Well, I’m sure that the JORD spec was written so that only a VSTOL craft could fit it. There is no way a VSTOL aircraft is going to be price competitive with a similarly sized helo– buying in bulk or not. Why would you buy a troubled program in bulk( remember — that is a long term commitment) ?
I was recently in one of the prototype V22’s– its all carbon fibre and titanium– much more $$ than aluminum. Lord only knows what the gearbox/engines/avionics cost over a normal helo.
Its the definition of gold plated.
FYI — the V-22 is half made in my area and a friend of mine was a program manager on it.
During the hind vs an Iranian Cobra the hind definitely had an advantage. The hind vs a current usmc cobra definitely had the advantage. We are talking about 2 different helicopters just to clear that up.
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Why don’t the Germans, with 3,500 troops, and choppers to move them contribute to the effort? The Italians and Spanish also. These member nations will not even let the ones doing the fighting borrow them. The Germans are gutless, thier politicians are helping kill the a-stan mission. Wat good is NATO? The Germans will piss and moan about thier constitution, but its thier way of copping out. If a-stan is a failure, the US should pull out of NATO. There are only a few who are doing the fighting and dying. The Spanish, Italians, Germans and to a lesser degree France, sicken me. Great “allies” they turned out to be. Have another DAB and a Brat, f-the Americans.…
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