From this story, it at least appears that my fear of a potential “F-15 overreaction” to push for more F-22s has come true.
From Reuters:
Top Pentagon officials are planning to extend production of Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-22 fighter jet amid concerns over the airworthiness of the aging fleet it is replacing, an analyst with close ties to the Pentagon said on Friday.
“Pentagon insiders say the Office of the Secretary of Defense is planning … to continue production” beyond the 183 F-22s due to be delivered by the end of 2011, said Loren Thompson of the Arlington, Virginia-based Lexington Institute, noted for links to the Pentagon and industry.
“Policymakers are under pressure … because Cold War fighters are falling out of the sky due to age,” he added, referring to the second grounding this month of older Boeing F-15 models.
Representatives of the Air Force and the Defense Department did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Now, I know this story is shaky since it’s based on comments from one person. But Loren is pretty tapped in and though is sometimes given to hyperbole, he’s been a very reliable source of mine over the years. And the Reuters reporter, Jim Wolf, is top notch and wouldn’t have let the story go to print if it wasn’t accurate and properly sourced.
Sure, the F-22 is a kick ass airplane, and we can debate the merits of the planes and the proper number. But to shoehorn more of them into the inventory by cynically grounding the fleet they’re to replace as a public relations ploy to make a better case, if true, is disappointing.
Now let’s keep our eyes on Congress. If this keeps going, there’s going to be hearings with their own parochial histrionics, then the inevitable added money and production authorizations. Then the Air Force will finally have gotten its wish, and the sky itself won’t even be the limit for F-22 buys.
(Gouge: NC)
” But to shoehorn more of them into the inventory by cynically grounding the fleet they’re to replace as a public relations ploy to make a better case, if true, is disappointing.“
Do you have any basis to raise this as a conspiracy? Maybe Occam’s Razor applies? Those planes are being grounded because the AF doesn’t know the state of its planes and is being cautious with the young aircrews lives?
Besides, shouldn’t the Airforce be pressing the case for brand new F-22’s instead of flying 25+ year old high performance fighters? Not exactly shocking stuff.
Most of the F-15 fleet is actually much younger than 25 years. And it is shocking that anyone — the USAF or Loren — would use that as an excuse to make the case to buy more F-22s. Fighters encounter structural issues all the time — the F-16’s wing cracking and the Super Hornet’s center barrel flaws, for example. The F-15s will need to modify their forward fuselages and the longerons and they will be fine.
Most of the F-15 fleet is actually much younger than 25 years. And it is shocking that anyone — the USAF or Loren — would use that as an excuse to make the case to buy more F-22s. Fighters encounter structural issues all the time — the F-16’s wing cracking and the Super Hornet’s center barrel flaws, for example. The F-15s will need to modify their forward fuselages and the longerons and they will be fine.
Stephen, the F-15C/D production line closed in 1985. About 1/3 of the F-15 fleet are newer F-15Es (produced since 1986.) To say that most of the F-15 fleet is much younger than 25 years is somewhat inaccurate. The newest F-15C/D is about 21 years old, and most are older. The F-15 has been under flight maneuver restrictions for close to 10 years due to fatigue problems around the horizontal stabilizers, and now this problem comes up.
I don’t think there’s any conspiracy here to ground the F-15 to justify more F-22s — we’re just seeing opportunism in using a real problem with the F-15 to try to win support for more F-22s. There’s not even anything sleazy about that — it’s just smart political maneuvering.
Does it shock anyone that Loren is pushing for more F-22s given that he is paid by Lockheed as a consultant for issues like that What does surprise me is that few people in teh press ever call him out of the very clear conflict of interest.
Regardless of the reasons, we should be producing more F-22s. The question is where the money comes from.
I think it is very adventageous of the Air Force to push this issue that has been developing for some time. They can show validity to their complaints for the past few years in trying to get more than 180 F-22s.
DC2
How much of the original “requirement” for 182 F-22s (which is only a fraction of the Air Force’s actual requirement) was based on having F-15s to augment? Currently, wings that fly the F-22 consist of two F-22 squadrons and one F-15 squadron. Sounds to me like someone (OSD?) was expecting Eagles to last longer than anticipated. Stephen Trimble argues that “fighters encounter structural issues all the time.” That’s true up until a point. A forward fuselage separation in flight is more serious than finding cracks in an inspection that could lead to a failure within several hundred flight hours. There are many more options in the later case to alleviate the structural issues.
I still don’t get why people *don’t* want to keep f-22 production going. Think 20–30 years ahead, not the current situation. At some point either for fatigue life or improved potential adversaries the f-15 needs replacing. The replacement is already here flying.
And let japan have some, possibly US assembled only. At such low rates of production as the f-22 has, wouldn’t selling even 50 more be a huge boost to the program viability?
How about if Congress makes the USAF buy 200 or so F18E/F’s– they are about half the cost of the F22– That’ll fix ‘em
“we can debate the merits of the planes and the proper number. But to shoehorn more of them into the inventory by cynically grounding the fleet they’re to replace as a public relations ploy to make a better case, if true, is disappointing.“
Agreed
I would call myself a strong supporter of the F-22 and why it should be the replacement of the F-15 i.e. numbers that can actually REPLACE the F-15 fleet as they stand down.
But this gives a impression of weakness in our argument.
I think a lot of Air Force detractors are correct to point out that we probably don’t need as many airplanes as they think we do.
BUT…
To me the biggest issue is keeping the production line open as long as possible. It is utterly insane to let the lines close in 2011 when we have no idea what the threats will be 10, 20, or 30 years from now.
The F-22 is possibly the best airplane that will be produced in that time frame, so why on earth let it go out of production?
This is SOP for the Sir Force when they
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/11/airforce_raptor_rust_071112w/
to quote:
Leaky fuselage access panels at the top of the jet are leading to corrosion issues in many of the planes. Also, problems with the plane
The F-15C/D should be capable of remaining in service until 2020–30 time range. It will go long before that because UAVs in the air-to-air role will make manned fighters about as useful as a tailgunner.
for the life cycle issue,
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-15-life.htm
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