Comments on: …And Here’s the Rest of the M4 Story… http://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/ The Future of the Military, Law Enforcement and National Security Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:29:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Andrewhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-206794 Andrew Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:52:47 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-206794 I don't think it's the M4's fault. I think it's the 5.56mm NATO's fault. Or specifically, the M855 cartridge. I think they should change the lubricant of the rifle and the cartridge to a M262 MOD 0. The M262 has decreased accuracy at around 600-700 meters, but the longest combat engagements in Iraq are around 50-300 meters. That's where the M262 cartridge shines. I don’t think it’s the M4’s fault. I think it’s the 5.56mm NATO’s fault. Or specifically, the M855 cartridge. I think they should change the lubricant of the rifle and the cartridge to a M262 MOD 0. The M262 has decreased accuracy at around 600–700 meters, but the longest combat engagements in Iraq are around 50–300 meters. That’s where the M262 cartridge shines.

]]> By: andrewhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-206792 andrew Sat, 17 Jul 2010 00:26:03 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-206792 Or you could just use M262 MOD 0 bullets. They're REALLY good at up to 700 meters. Or you could just use M262 MOD 0 bullets. They’re REALLY good at up to 700 meters.

]]> By: StevenDDeaconhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-199272 StevenDDeacon Sun, 02 May 2010 22:07:18 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-199272 What could possibly go wrong with an M4/M16A2/M16A4? M4 and M16A2/M16A4 firearms require continual attention to cleaning and wear of the action, auto sear, ejection port cover, extractor, bolt catch, bolt gas, buffer retainer, and hammer springs; retaining pin; firing pin; bolt carrier group; bolt carrier assembly; trigger assembly; barrel; and dents, damage, and separation of magazine well, walls, feed, and feed lips. The M4 Carbine and M16 Assault weapons may be acceptable to most military rifleman because it is all they know and have come to expect certain tolerance levels of failures and need for a higher degree of cleaning and maintenance because they have no other experiences with rifle or carbine assault weapons. Not knowing how much better a different solution will perform is a matter of life or death for our military personnel. When cleaning and lubricating your weapon in a a hot, extremely dry, dusty and dirty environment requires the use of a dry lubricate such as Hornady One Shot Cleaner and Lubricate, Militec-1 Lubricate, Smooth Kote Lubricate, or one as such not CLP! What could possibly go wrong with an M4/M16A2/M16A4?
M4 and M16A2/M16A4 firearms require continual attention to cleaning and wear of the action, auto sear, ejection port cover, extractor, bolt catch, bolt gas, buffer retainer, and hammer springs; retaining pin; firing pin; bolt carrier group; bolt carrier assembly; trigger assembly; barrel; and dents, damage, and separation of magazine well, walls, feed, and feed lips.
The M4 Carbine and M16 Assault weapons may be acceptable to most military rifleman because it is all they know and have come to expect certain tolerance levels of failures and need for a higher degree of cleaning and maintenance because they have no other experiences with rifle or carbine assault weapons. Not knowing how much better a different solution will perform is a matter of life or death for our military personnel.
When cleaning and lubricating your weapon in a a hot, extremely dry, dusty and dirty environment requires the use of a dry lubricate such as Hornady One Shot Cleaner and Lubricate, Militec-1 Lubricate, Smooth Kote Lubricate, or one as such not CLP!

]]> By: tk421http://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-189612 tk421 Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:49:27 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-189612 why is there talk about the M4 being underpowered when is was designed as a carbine, which is naturally DESIGNED to a smaller lower velocity weapon in the first place? why is there talk about the M4 being underpowered when is was designed as a carbine, which is naturally DESIGNED to a smaller lower velocity weapon in the first place?

]]> By: Frank Daubignehttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-188623 Frank Daubigne Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:21 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-188623 ...I'm glad I found this because it just proves we have an incompetent bureaucracy. If the standard military rifle (whether M4 or M16-both suck) have major stoppages and perform the worst in any test, some thing is wrong. I suggest taking all of the money that is allocated for the fancy high-tech crap and change both the M16 AND the M4. Because the reason that Al Qaeda is able to blatantly attack US outposts is because they have a better rifle than us. To those who say no, I say why is the AK-47 still in use 60 years later? I've had war veterans agree with me that the M16 was garbage. If you need to find a better gun, just have an open competition and whoever develops the best gun for the lowest price wins, plain and simple. Some suggestions could be: FN FAL, G36, FAMAS, Beretta AR70, Howa Type 89, Steyr AUG, or L85 A1 …I’m glad I found this because it just proves we have an incompetent bureaucracy. If the standard military rifle (whether M4 or M16-both suck) have major stoppages and perform the worst in any test, some thing is wrong.

I suggest taking all of the money that is allocated for the fancy high-tech crap and change both the M16 AND the M4.

Because the reason that Al Qaeda is able to blatantly attack US outposts is because they have a better rifle than us. To those who say no, I say why is the AK-47 still in use 60 years later? I’ve had war veterans agree with me that the M16 was garbage.

If you need to find a better gun, just have an open competition and whoever develops the best gun for the lowest price wins, plain and simple. Some suggestions could be: FN FAL, G36, FAMAS, Beretta AR70, Howa Type 89, Steyr AUG, or L85 A1

]]> By: Zuluhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-171964 Zulu Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:05:50 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-171964 I've had experience with the M16A2 family of rifles in training, and some were pretty beat up. Only one malfunction per sixty or so rounds in a high dust environment seems pretty low, once the rifle starts getting dirty, it malfunctions quite a bit. Older rifles are a lot less reliable. The best thing might be to field some of the various competing rifles in combat and see how they hold up. I'm not even going to touch on the topic of a different round. Need to find something reliable and durable, then get the right round to do the job. I’ve had experience with the M16A2 family of rifles in training, and some were pretty beat up. Only one malfunction per sixty or so rounds in a high dust environment seems pretty low, once the rifle starts getting dirty, it malfunctions quite a bit. Older rifles are a lot less reliable. The best thing might be to field some of the various competing rifles in combat and see how they hold up. I’m not even going to touch on the topic of a different round. Need to find something reliable and durable, then get the right round to do the job.

]]> By: Jeffhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-171963 Jeff Wed, 21 May 2008 17:31:24 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-171963 Hey Mike if you have never fired the weapon, and refer to the magazine as a "clip" I urge you to reserve our comments. The direct impingement system is not necessarily the best operating system. However, in 19 years of my experience with the M16/M4 a little cleaning and lubing make the difference. If an operator can't keep his weapons clean he is a liability to his team regardless of the weapon. The latest improvements, short stroke piston, heavier grain bullet, and heavier caliber round will ensure the most ergonomic system developed will continue well into this century. By the way...you are a knucklehead. Hey Mike if you have never fired the weapon, and refer to the magazine as a “clip” I urge you to reserve our comments. The direct impingement system is not necessarily the best operating system. However, in 19 years of my experience with the M16/M4 a little cleaning and lubing make the difference. If an operator can’t keep his weapons clean he is a liability to his team regardless of the weapon. The latest improvements, short stroke piston, heavier grain bullet, and heavier caliber round will ensure the most ergonomic system developed will continue well into this century. By the way…you are a knucklehead.

]]> By: Mikehttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-171962 Mike Sat, 17 May 2008 11:00:20 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-171962 So I've read through this entire thread, and here's what I've gotten from it. "The 5.56 ammo is crap", I've killed a deer with a .22 long rifle.. so the 5.56 is probably just fine for killing people. Thats just my opinion though. "The M4 is crap.", I've never shot one. But; if any of my guns jammed after 2 clips(thats the average for the M4 in that test), I'd have long ago gotten rid of it. I also don't buy the Army's explanation of "Its the clip!". The M4 has been in use for decades, after being in service for that long... ALL, not some, but ALL, flaws which are not incorporated into its basic design, should have been removed from the weapon. What this means to me is that if it continues to have this many problems after all these years of service and incremental upgrades.. is that its problems are completely resting with its basic design. So I’ve read through this entire thread, and here’s what I’ve gotten from it.
“The 5.56 ammo is crap”, I’ve killed a deer with a .22 long rifle.. so the 5.56 is probably just fine for killing people. Thats just my opinion though.
“The M4 is crap.”, I’ve never shot one. But; if any of my guns jammed after 2 clips(thats the average for the M4 in that test), I’d have long ago gotten rid of it. I also don’t buy the Army’s explanation of “Its the clip!”. The M4 has been in use for decades, after being in service for that long… ALL, not some, but ALL, flaws which are not incorporated into its basic design, should have been removed from the weapon. What this means to me is that if it continues to have this many problems after all these years of service and incremental upgrades.. is that its problems are completely resting with its basic design.

]]> By: Roland Mahttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-171961 Roland Ma Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:32:30 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-171961 Billions of dollars are spend on high tech equipment, but at the end of the day it is the foot soldier who is doing all the ground work. Dangerous and deadly ground work where these troopers risk their lives so that we can live free. They deserve the best rifle and equipment.They have loved ones waiting for them to come home alive.The M4 is good but there are better rifles like the LWRC rifles or the Masada Rifle. My opinion is that the US army should adopt the LWRC, a complete all American manufactured weapon system. If not, the Masada Billions of dollars are spend on high tech equipment, but at the end of the day it is the foot soldier who is doing all the ground work. Dangerous and deadly ground work where these troopers risk their lives so that we can live free. They deserve the best rifle and equipment.They have loved ones waiting for them to come home alive.The M4 is good but there are better rifles like the LWRC rifles or the Masada Rifle. My opinion is that the US army should adopt the LWRC, a complete all American manufactured weapon system. If not, the Masada

]]> By: Dustin Downardhttp://defensetech.org/2007/12/18/and-heres-the-rest-of-the-m4-story/#comment-171960 Dustin Downard Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:02:07 +0000 http://deftech.usmilblog.com/?p=2717#comment-171960 i dont understand where there getting this universal support for the M4. yea sure it can work if you maintain the hell out of it, but not everyone does. and honestly how can the army continue to state that they field the absolute best in the world for their soldiers after this test. i think the rifle needs to be replaced now and not just with a band aid upper reciever like the 416. personally i would like to see the new magpul masada in the running for a replacment. i dont understand where there getting this universal support for the M4. yea sure it can work if you maintain the hell out of it, but not everyone does. and honestly how can the army continue to state that they field the absolute best in the world for their soldiers after this test.
i think the rifle needs to be replaced now and not just with a band aid upper reciever like the 416. personally i would like to see the new magpul masada in the running for a replacment.

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