Comments on: No More Hydrazine

By: Old Crusty Chief

Old Crusty Chief — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:52:28 +0000

A follow-up: As pup some years ago, I had the great good fortune of serving with Earl. Earl was 6'6", black as night, never without a cup of coffee and a Kool dangling from his lip. He was as ready to fight as he was to laugh. And, he never shied from doing the right thing. A more noble and natural leader I've yet to know. Once, during an interminable cruise, I screwed up something pretty important and the XO was sure to come into the shop at any moment, red hot and ready to kill, maim, and cause three generations of genetic mutations. But, I'd learned to trust Earl and to say "Senior Chief, I've screwed the pooch." Earl was not happy, but he didn't take my head off either. He knew how the XO was going to take it and did what a leader ought: "Don't worry, shipmate. We'll figure out what went wrong and fix it. Right now, let me handle the XO." I knew that he was going to catch a ration of shit he didn't deserve and I told him so. "Hey, man, let me worry about that shit. I've had my ass chewed so many times that there ain't nothin' but scar tissue back there... and scare tissue ain't go no nerve endings." He went up to the XO's stateroom, came back an hour later, whistling some damned tune. He sat down at his desk, lit a Kool, and went back to work. We all looked at each other, then at Senior, and asked him what'd happened. "It was rough, man! I thought I was gonna have to choke him out. He was talkin' courts-martials and captain's masts, brig time, keel-haulin', and packin' your ass off to Adak, Argentia, or BFE. I ain't seen nuthin' like that since Bin Thuy in '69." My bowels went a bit liquid at that. Two years in the Navy and I was about to be shark chum. Earl shuffled papers, drank some coffee, and didn't say another word. "Senior? What's going to happen now?" He put down his coffee and turned to me with a face of stone. "Look. I'm a Senior Chief Petty Officer and I told you I'd take care of the XO. I did and its done. Don't ever question my integrity or my word. Please." Never heard another word about it from him, the XO, or anyone. And I never had another moment of doubt or pause about anything Earl ever said or ordered me to do. (Except when we were all drunk and he was telling us outrageous lies about Bin Thuy, Olongapo whorehouses, and dungaree liberty in Subic.) That, my boys, is leadership. It was always a rare trait in most men, but it has become nearly extinct in this age of CYA, Me, I, and Why. I pray every day that the young men and women coming out of combat tours in the Sand Box and the 'Stan will have re-learned the things our fathers and grandfathers learned through blood and pain. Hopefully, the next generation of senior leadership will have the mettle to think clearly, make sound decisions, and act without hesitation. No more press conferences to try to spin something one way or another, win political favor, and find the path to the Golden Parachute. IOW: Shoot the damned thing down and then tell the jackals in the media about it later. Cheers, Chief B. Okay, SOAPBOX_MODE=OFF

By: Old Crusty Chief

Old Crusty Chief — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:06:01 +0000

You know, it wouldn’t matter what the hell they did or said, or didn’t do or didn’t say: They’re gonna catch hell for it.
Dithering over details, trying to cover one’s ass, and soliciting everyone’s opinion ad infinitum is the never-fail route to failure. Most notably so in the real world outside of politics and the academe.
Sometimes leadership means making a decision and stepping out. Fortune favors the brave, boys.
Cheers,
Chief B.

By: yousaf

yousaf — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:49:08 +0000

OK, then they could simply say: dudes, the risk is unquantifiable and we decided to shoot it down anyway, and because of these other reasons: X, Y, & Z.
What I don’t agree with is giving a lame excuse without any numbers and expecting the public to buy it.

By: SMSgt Mac

SMSgt Mac — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:24:52 +0000

And what if the numbers were run, and it was decided that the risk was unquantifiable (ie could be very small OR very large, or there were too many variables to even estimate)?
Enjoy all the wild theories you want, if that’s what keeps you warm and happy inside.

By: SMSgt Mac

SMSgt Mac — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:20:21 +0000

RE: “reducing, if not eliminating, the risk to people on Earth from the hazardous chemical” mean? It’s either gone, or it’s not gone…Which is it?“
It’s “The dose makes the toxin” rule. The chemicals have either dissipated to the point where there are only harmless concentrations, converted into other compound(s) through reaction with the upper atmosphere and/or radiation (including sunlight), burned up/converted in the kill event, or some combination of the above.
I took extra physics classes to avoid as much chemistry as possible, but through flight test operations, particularly in the disposal of weapons dross, you get to be awfully familiar with Material Safety Data Sheets. It is amazing how the handling precautions change based upon state of the materials. We had one project that had a very fragile low-level radioactive material on board, so prior to launch it had to be handled with kid gloves lest it break all over someone. We were concerned as to how hard the cleanup was going to be post-mission, but when we got into the fine print of the MSDS it said we could dispose of the dust (in the quantities that we were expecting) by flushing it down a kitchen sink.

By: harry

harry — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:11:46 +0000

WHAT A BUNCH OF RACHET JAW CHATTER.….
How about some simple faith that those in charge know whats going on. All this conspiracy flap sounds like third grade recess chatter.
Let us be real Americans for a change. People with all this doubt and critism wouls sing a differnt song if THEY had made said decision and idiots were doubting their every act.

By: harry

harry — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 05:04:11 +0000

By: Blake

Blake — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:50:59 +0000

It is obvious to the casual observer why China shot down a stationary weather bird. It is clearly obvious why this option was exercised regardless of the reasons listed. While most anti-ABM system types try to sell their bag of beans that the land based 9 or 20 missiles based at Vandenburg {spelling} and FT Greeley don’t work / waste of money, when you add them to a list of other successful layered options like MTHELE, THADD, SM3 and couple other systems not published I think statically you have an effective ABM / ASAT system. Not just neocons, but also anti-Nuke people have argued and successfully that the system in its current state render offensive Nukes ineffective against the US. While the ABM system of today is considered rather liberal/immature, it is very effective when coupled with a first strike targeting capability of mobile, silo and sub platforms.
The ability to distinguish decoys, adjust for non-ballistic flight patterns and redundant layering aside, as this technology matures there is no doubt that it will produce a very effective ABM system. Did I say layered? I cannot wait to talk about the goodies that have been developed because of this program. Come to think of it — it is not effective at against the whiz bang PR weaponry of the other roosters in this game.

By: freefallingbomb

freefallingbomb — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:14:27 +0000

Crumbling Chief eulogizes industriously: "Did the US send up a gigabuck recon bird, fake its death (or birth dependent on POV), then carefully begin deorbiting it for the sole purpose of using it as target drone? If you buy that then I recommend that you and Ron Paul come out of the paint locker for some fresh air." For those of you who aren't entirely into Radio Berlin broadcasts: Countries are supposed to play nice in Space, and part of playing nice is to carry enough fuel especially in low-Earth orbit ("L.E.O.") satellites to let them end their lives with controlled re-entries, normally in the middle of some ocean. Most L.E.O. satellites do carry that suicidal dose of fuel, and even high-"flying" (geosynchronous) communications satellites sometimes have it on board! As a consequence, lots of spy satellites are de-orbited every year, and people even decide in advance exactly where on the Earth's surface they shall be de-orbited. "According to the Pentagon there were, last year alone, some 42 "major re-entries", nine of those being satellites and perhaps a dozen others, equally controlled ones, were the upper stages of the rockets that had lofted them and other satellites into orbit). Trouble (contradiction...) is: The "U.S.A. 193" satellite's shoot-down was "justified" to break up precisely that FULL hydrazine fuel tank that could perfectly have kept it aloft! More perfectly obvious contradictions: 1) Since when is the Neocon gang concerned about the "environmental" impact of ANYTHING ? 2) How does highly flammable rocket fuel N-O-T ignite upon re-entry? But the satellite "U.S.A. 193" must have developed a will of its own. And the only reason why that shoot-down had to take place during a lunar eclipse was to take advantage of the darkness, so that the untested, half-blind "S.M.-3 Standard Missile" could have a chance to sneak up on the satellite! Anyway, if the Chinese successfully surprised everyone with their A.S.A.T. test while the U.S. Americans made all that media circus and drove 3 warships into the middle of the Pacific just to shoot down one satellite (I bet someone's still celebrating), the Chinese could simply blow up all U.S. American satellites in the first five minutes of a war. That's the way to do business!

By: Rix

Rix — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:16:44 +0000

They could have used airborne samples and gas chromatography…you can find things in the parts per billion with (admittedly quite expensive) commercially available equipment. If there was hydrazine in the impact area for the various parts, you probably would have been able to detect minute quantities in the atmosphere underneath. This of course, assumes that you know what you are looking for and have a little bit of time to run the machinery. The state of the art is not quite up to what you see on CSI but if you use one of these machines to test for a certain substance you will find it if it is there.