Comments on: More B-2 Crash Speculation

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By: Buck

Buck — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:00:00 +0000

G2,
I also worked at GE Aircraft Engines and I can attest to titanium fires. I was present when a bearing failure occurred on a different type engine and the compressor rub was enough to ignite the titanium. It was not a pretty sight. The aluminum cowling just melted away. Carbon dioxide finally put out the fire but it took a while. The floor of the test cell had little puddles of molten metal that had dripped down and resolidified.

By: AlamedaRich

AlamedaRich — Fri, 30 May 2008 19:13:46 +0000

Speculation to fit the reports go this way:
Hydraulic failure in the Right side drag rudder control caused all four systems to that to failfrom the small resultant fire near the engine. The right drag rudders close, blown shut by the air stream. The now heavy drag on the left side causes a hard yaw to the left, the right wing being nearly straight to the air streem causes a hard pitch up and a sudden snap-roll to the left. All of this taking just a couple of seconds. Inverted the B-2 hits the ground level, upsidedown, a little to the left of the intended flight path. They need lockouts to prevent this on the surfaces and in the hydraulic systems.

By: jmd

jmd — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:14:45 +0000

The immediate cause does indeed appear to have been a stall and consequent loss of lift during takeoff. It’s still unclear if it was pilot error, i.e., yanking the stick back too far, or some sort of fcs problem. It is a known characteristic of the a/c that the cg is very far aft when the tanks are full for ferry flights (a/c normally doesn’t carry that much fuel on training and operational missions). talk about a bad day for that crew…

By: AF Guy

AF Guy — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:59:50 +0000

Gents, just sat on the plane with a B-2 crew chief who said the plane crashed due to pilot error: stalling on takeoff. He said the word inside his circle of B-2 maintainers is that it wasn’t a mechanical failure but rather an abrupt climb that the aircraft’s comps didn’t regulate enough. No other proof of that, but it’s a pretty reliable source.

By: Rick

Rick — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:00:43 +0000

My first assumption on reading the words “titanium fire” go back to my days working at GE Aircraft Engines.
Part of the engine case (could be the area surrounding the fan, or compressor, or both…I don’t know the specifics of the F118 engine) is made from titanium. A loose blade can cause friction, and at the high rate of rotation can cause enough friction to actually ignite the titanium.
Titanium is similar to magnesium in that it burns, and once ignited burns hot and is difficult to extinguish. It isn’t easy to ignite titanium, but engine blade friction can do it (and has, F/A-18s have experienced the problem on rare occasion).
Once a titanium fire starts in an aircraft, there is little to do but get out ASAP. I don’t know of any aircraft that contains a system to extinguish a titanium fire in the engine area.

By: marvin

marvin — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:13:40 +0000

I question the high ignition temps required to burn these 2 metals. I used to grind 1/4″ thick magnesium stamping dies using a 7″ grinder, collecting the dust in a bin behind the grinder. If I forgot to empty the bin before grinding steel or iron, one red hot piece of the ferrous material in the bin would ignite the magnesium dust. The red hot ferrous piece was probably about 800F, that’s not very hot in the world of burning metals. Cast iron will melt at 2300-2400F, steel melts slighty higher. The tip of a lit cigarette is about 800F, so I’m saying magnesium, in dust form, will ignite at 800F or slightly above.
When machining (turning) titanium pieces it’s standard procedure to have a fire extinguisher (at least one) within reach to attempt to dose the fire should it ignite. Cutting is done slowly to reduce the temps created as much as possible, to inhibit ignition. I agree that water is not the answer with burning metals, it may even cause an explosion. A sticky foam, for fires in the vertical position, would be best.

By: Robert

Robert — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:09:00 +0000

THE B IN B2 stands Bomber not Boeing. Also there are fewer B2’s than commercial planes flying in the sky hence the different number of commercial plane crashes to military plane crashes. No less it it tragic.

By: Robert

Robert — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:07:49 +0000

By: George

George — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:33:02 +0000

Both magnesium and aluminum are critical components of metal alloys which most aircraft today are made of to reduce weight and increase strength. Magnesium alloys tend to be more strong than aluminum and thus are used more extensively. (Remember those alloy wheels called Mags? What do you think those are made of?)
Magnesium fires burn very quickly and with extremely high temps. They can’t be put out with water. They need foam. They will usually consume their prey faster than anyone can put them out. That’s what makes them so dangerous.