As predicted…
CHICAGO, March 10, 2008 — The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] will file a formal protest on Tuesday asking the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to review the decision by the U.S. Air Force to award a contract to a team of Northrop Grumman and European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) to replace aerial refueling tankers.
“Our team has taken a very close look at the tanker decision and found serious flaws in the process that we believe warrant appeal,” said Jim McNerney, Boeing chairman, president and chief executive officer. “This is an extraordinary step rarely taken by our company, and one we take very seriously.”
Following a debriefing on the decision by the Air Force on March 7, Boeing officials spent three days reviewing the Air Force case for its tanker award. A rigorous analysis of the Air Force evaluation that resulted in the Northrop/EADS contract led Boeing to the conclusion that a protest was necessary.
“Based upon what we have seen, we continue to believe we submitted the most capable, lowest risk, lowest Most Probable Life Cycle Cost airplane as measured against the Air Force’s Request for Proposal,” McNerney said. “We look forward to the GAO’s review of the decision.”
Boeing said it would provide additional details of its case in conjunction with the protest filing on Tuesday.
And so it begins.
– Christian
{ 73 comments… read them below or add one }
“Our team has taken a very close look at the tanker decision and found serious flaws in the process that we believe warrant appeal,” . . .
The flaw? We lost to a European company.
Translation:”We lost a contract that if we don’t protest, a lot of senior management will lose their phoney-baloney jobs”
I keep thinking about Ben Rich’s book “Skunk Works” and the part where he (or more likely his co-author) laments losing the ATB contract to Northrop because Lockheed listened to the generals who believed the AF would go for more, smaller bombers and Northrop listened to the generals who believed he AF would go for fewer, larger bombers. I think the sentiment was simplistic, but then again so is the idea that someone might bet the farm on a smaller airframe tanker without doing ‘what ifs’ when they’ve known for several years they were competing on ‘capability’ against a larger capacity airframe.
Since the NG airframe is a ‘shrunk’ version of the original A330, I suspect the NG entry was closer to the sweetspot in the tradeoff between total cost and capacity.
wah! they were supposed to just give us the contract even though we did a half-ass job and pushed an airframe the air force didn’t want! wah! and we deliver half as many tankers in the same amount of time becuase we’re so far behind on 787 and falling further behind schedule! wah wah!
A spoiled child throwing a temper-tantrum and wants to bring everyone down if it can’t get it’s way. They were beat fair and square.
dammit boeing stop stamping your feet
if your good for the rest of the day you
can have ice cream after dinner
Mac,
I agree with you completely. Boeing was trying to keep the 767 line open a little longer and they bet the farm on lobbying. The A330 is a better airplane for the mission. Unfortunately, it will come at the expense of American jobs.
But not to worry, those high level managers will still have a nice severance package.
This flawed thinking is typical of corporate America today and why we are falling behind all the rest of the civilized world in technological advances.
DC2
Oh come on! How many of you slammed Lockheed/Augusta Westland when they won the Presidential Helo Contest??? Many of you — myself included! As has been said here before and as I will now repeat (say it with me…especially you Irtusk)…The Air Farce asked for a medium tanker and ended up buying a heavy one. Exactly what aircraft would qualify for the KC-10 replacement??? A 747 vs a A-380? Get real folks, get your facts straight and stop worshiping at the alter of EADS!
PS.
If this doesn’t start a flame war nothing will…
Oh come on! How many of you slammed Lockheed/Augusta Westland when they won the Presidential Helo Contest??? Many of you — myself included! As has been said here before and as I will now repeat (say it with me…especially you Irtusk)…The Air Farce asked for a medium tanker and ended up buying a heavy one. Exactly what aircraft would qualify for the KC-10 replacement??? A 747 vs a A-380? Get real folks, get your facts straight and stop worshiping at the alter of EADS!
PS.
If this doesn’t start a flame war nothing will…
Gee, Boeing got caught red-handed massaging the system previously and plan B was slapped out there and lost. Nothing to see here. How about coming up with something capable and affordable instead of trying the sue your way to success route?
I initially supported the KC-767 but came to accept the KC-30 after the selection was made. The KC-30 won fair and square and will be a credit to the AF.
Unfortunately, that may be a ways off. I see delays ahead and Congress apparently intends to out-do themselves after trying to straighten out professional baseball.
Boeing – the KC-30 won fair and square. Please go back to the drawing board and design something that will win the next fighter, bomber, transport, UAV or tanker selection. Boeing Commercial does a good job of designing and selling aircraft – they could teach IDS some lessons.
Give it up, Boeing. Ever heard of good sportsmanship and being a good loser?
Not sure why people feel so strongly about this issue. I’m just curious to see when more information can become publicly available so that people can make their own judgments about whether this was a reasonable decision by the Air Force. Anyone know when any information will be released to the public?
When you talk about job loss it all seems a little silly. Mostly because the employees that benefit from having an American contract benefit maybe 1% of the population. If you want to inflate that and say ‘Well paid employees eat out more, buy more stuff, hire more baby sitters for longer shifts etc etc’ we could be generous and say 2%. Really.. is that going to turn around Americans current economic downward spiral?
Probably not….
“…Boeing Goes Nuclear”
Please Christian tell me that ridiculous title was not your idea. Boeing’s protest is nowhere near “going nuclear”.
EVERYONE knew no matter who “won” this round, the loser was going to protest (& had every right to).
***
Hopefully now the USAF can tell the politicians (& those pissed off a Boeing) we did your stupid redo & “chose” the winner you pushed on us (because there HAD to be a competition & the only other competitor around would not even bid until the criteria were changed to better suit their airframe even though we had made it abundantly clear before that their airframe was too big, too expensive, too risky, requred too much infrastructure investment to operate effectively in worldwide deployment, et cetera) & now we will (under the rules of the system) have the “obligatory” protest everyone knew was going to happen & redo it AGAIN & choose what we had already determined YEARS ago was the best aiframe to replace the KC-135.
What a waist of time & money. We had better PRAY that the (now even more) neccessary KC-135 Aircraft Refurbishment Program goes better than the C-5M AMP-RERP Modernization Program.
I am surpised anything in the DoD gets done when you have the military-industrial complex and Politicans lobbying for their products. We see this on every large program of record.
I may be wrong, but Boeing has its hands full with the 787 roll out, which has massive demand because of the useless A380. The 787 is way more important than the KCX tanker program. No one at Boeing will lose their jobs because of this lost contract. Even if they did, they are hiring thousands skilled people in Mobile, AL.
Someone needs to find me a complex piece of machinery that is made entirely from US parts and assembled entirely by Americans all throughout the supply chain. I doubt there are many, if any.
Ok, I am trying to stay calm about the whole thing but I have trouble with it when people give a big hurrah! to a foreign country being responsible (or not, but you don’t really care, I know) for MY child when said child is flying one of those planes. Now I ask you, how much more likely is it that that child’s safety is at risk once this “contract” get sent to another country being subsidized by countries that don’t… I don’t know… like us? hmmm go ahead and say something stupid like… Well, the AF will be watching… so that I can say “here’s your sign”.
I personally would have a HORRIBLE time with an American company NOT fighting! What are you? French? WE need to continue to fight for this country AND protect OUR interests (well, not YOUR interests now, thank you.)
Let me ask you, how many people do you know that can say they won’t be affected by this? How affected are you by people spending money?
So, let’s play a game. You get three cards to make hmmm 35, that’s a good number. You can’t make 35 because I forgot to tell you that after the second card you can take one more! But I knew that so I WIN! don’t complain, don’t make a fuss, don’t express yourself and certainly don’t DARE to defend yourself. You were given rules, I changed or failed to explain the rules. Shut up and suck it up. That’s what YOU may do this because it is easier than saying HEY WAIT A SECOND! but I’m more of a scrapper.
I don’t care if you are David or Goliath as long as the playing field was the same and the rules were explained.
What’s wrong with you to think this is just a simple thing? Boeing is upset, boohoo. Well, THIS little wench is upset too, because I want a job, I want to work, I want to be able to afford to fly down and see my friend while she is going through chemotherapy. I want to be able to give a couple of extra bucks to the waitress who just got evicted and is now living in her car because she couldn’t afford to pay rent when she lost her job. I want to be able to have those few extra dollars to do good either for myself or for others. I want that opportunity and I’m willing to fight.
proud citizen:
boeing has more work than they can handle already.
the 787 is so late now that they will be losing customers.
does it make sense for them to take on more work???
and speaking of the 787, have you asked boeing why they are building most of it OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES? how many jobs have been lost already because of this decision???
if boeing is GIVEN this deal due to all the whining, your babies will still be limping along in kc-135s, praying for kc-767s that will also be late because boeing is devoting all of their top people and resources to trying the 7(L)87.
Boeing being almost completely honest here: “A DIRTY DEAL is an excellent deal where I wasn’t included.”
> Now I ask you, how much more likely is it that
> that child’s safety is at risk once this
> “contract” get sent to another country being
> subsidized by countries that don’t… I don’t
> know… like us?
better not let your child fly on any plane or ride in any car or play with any foreign toys (maybe not a bad idea after the lead scare heh)
did you know that not all parts of the 767 are made in america?
some are made *gasp* overseas
what if one of those overseas suppliers decides to tamper with the parts, hmm?
> WE need to continue to fight for this country
> AND protect OUR interests
i agree, which is why i support giving our armed forces the best equipment possible
> I don’t care if you are David or Goliath as long
> as the playing field was the same and the rules
> were explained.
i’m glad to hear you support this open and fair competition that had all the requirements clearly spelled out
> THIS little wench is upset too, because I want a
> job, I want to work, I want to be able to afford
> to fly down and see my friend while she is going
> through chemotherapy.
if you had the skills and motivation to work at boeing or eads or ng you would already have a job
they are all hiring you know
> I want to be able to give a couple of extra
> bucks to the waitress who just got evicted and
> is now living in her car because she couldn’t
> afford to pay rent when she lost her job.
save me your petty sob stories
i want to be able to give the men and women who risk it all for us the very best, because their lives depend on it
that said, this will likely end up creating MORE american jobs than the boeing bid would have
as a result of this contract, we STOLE an assembly line from france. and since EADS is so desperate to move costs into the dollar zone, i fully expect them to build lots of other stuff here
this is a long-term investment in america’s aviation industry, and that is a good thing
Irtusk, you keep claiming that the superior plane won but the TRUTH is that two different classes of planes were competing! That alone should tell you and all your sycophants that this whole contest was flawed. To put it simply how could you compete a light wt fighter against a heavy one? The same truth applies here. Don’t run from the earlier question, if the A-330 is the right size to replace the KC-135 then what is the right size airframe to replace the KC-10? The A-380? That is the shape of things if this contest is being held up as an example of fairness! The whole thing is a fraud.
So the question is – how much US <> Euro fallout will there be? how secure is the foreign orders (which have yet to be signed) for the F35? can the US afford F35`s when there $150 million + each because they are buying the entire run?
solomon
The airforce asked for a KC-135 replacement and thats what they got , the A330 IS the direct competition for the 767 , both are wide body aicraft with a seating capacity of around 300 in a 2 class layout.
now here is one small detail which has been overlooked;
because the diameter of the 767 is 198 inches it CANNOT carry the Unit Load Devices for its freight , as carried by all other freighters – LD6s, LD11s and sometimes LD3s – instead it has to use the 767 ONLY LDs , which has been corrected by the 7late7 which WILL use the standard equipment
on a slightly different note, what will the effect of the boeing action be on the eventual tanker? will it lead to two aircraft being used (ie: both bids/companies getting a slice o’ pie); will it simply delay the usaf getting their new tanker while it is resolved, presumably increasing costs and putting more strain on the existing fleet; does boeing actually have a chance of winning the contract, or having this one nulled and a new contest started – in which case it’ll be an even bigger delay; finally, will this harm boeing’s chances in the future for contracts if the usaf figures they’ll cause trouble should they lose …
cheers!
Why do Americans keep repeating this meme about the EADS/NG design being a ‘foreign’ design? Last I checked Northrop Grumman has its HQ in Los Angeles.
Why do people repeatedly lable EADS a ‘French’ company when it’s a European consortium operating under Dutch law?
Why do people continue to say ‘What if we go to war with . .’. With who? Holland? Over what? You want to invade Amsterdam to seize their bongs of mass destruction? Meanwhile European countries buy a lot of American hardware – maybe you should think twice before selling potential enemies like us the F-35, the Apache, the F-16, the Sidewinder missile, Patriot anti-aircraft missiles and the M-113?
As for the numbers involved, I don’t think they would have gone for the EADS/NG design if they hadn’t thought it was the best way of balancing the USAF’s requirements against the various political concerns. Nor do I think that this process was much more corrupt than any other weapons purchasing process.
Given the money involved the appeal was inevitable – the legal costs of the challenge are insignificant next to the profits to be made off this deal. My worry is that as this is an election year this thing could very easily be made into a political football unless people keep repeating the basic facts -
1) This is not a Europe Vs. America thing.
2) The panel decided that the EADS/NG design was better on technical grounds, they may reverse their decision, but if they do it should not be for political reasons.
3) There will be no net job loss in the US with the EADS/NG plan.
4)Both designs involve components manufactured outside the US.
> the TRUTH is that two different classes of planes were
> competing! That alone should tell you and all your
> sycophants that this whole contest was flawed.
well since Boeing and Airbus don’t make planes the exact same size, that will be true of any competition
ah, i get it, the ‘flaw’ is that there was competition and Boeing wasn’t gifted the contract
in reality, while their size may be different, their ‘class’ is the same
which is why the A330 killed off the 767 but not the 737 (the 767 is in its class, the 737 isn’t)
> to put it simply how could you compete a light wt fighter against a heavy one?
to put it simply they had the same RFP as EADS/NG
if they thought they had a different plane (say the 777) that better fulfilled the criteria, then they should have put it forward
> Don’t run from the earlier question, if the A-330 is the right size to replace the KC-135
> then what is the right size airframe to replace the KC-10?
whatever plane best fits the criteria the AF sets forth for KC-Z
it is very like that the plane that wins that competition hasn’t been designed yet
> The A-380?
unlikely, it was designed for large volume/low density loads which is why the freighter version was cancelled
> The whole thing is a fraud.
yes, this whole protest is a fraud, Boeing should just drop it and allow the AF to just get on with it
> because the diameter of the 767 is 198 inches it CANNOT carry the Unit Load Devices
i’ll say on the military side that doesn’t matter since they don’t use those, they use 463L pallets
> will it simply delay the usaf getting their new tanker while it is resolved,
> presumably increasing costs and putting more strain on the existing fleet
THIS
FOARP,
Good points that bear frequent repetition! I would only add that there MAY actually be more work in the US in the end because of the EADS decision to build all freighter versions here.
Make no mistake, this will be an NG plane more than anything else when NG is through with it.
If this venture is successful, perhaps like many other foreign companies that built plants in the US, this will only be the first of many other EADS products to be produced under EADS North America. You gotta’ love ‘globalization’ unless you believe in the divine right to stagnate.
I am fascinated by Boeing’s grasping to the aircraft ‘size’ issue. This is made even more interesting by the fact that the NG entry seems to differ markedly from some versions of the 767 only in fuselage cross section and volume, other factors for the existing stretched freighter 767s, like payload, fuselage/cargo hold length, and max takeoff weight are very close to the NG tanker. Boeing’s claim that they were discouraged from offering a 777 makes it sound like they had no other options between the 767 they offered and the standard 777 which is obviously NOT the case.
Actually I think this marks a banner moment – sort of a watershed kinda thing.
When large corporations substitute lobbying and political influence for strength of design – eventually (read: now) they are bound to lose. Lobbyist do not ‘represent’ the company – they represent the paycheck they get and the political influence they ‘participate’ in. They do NOT stand by your product/service.
I can only hope that a lesson is learned here, by all potential military contractors. This should NOT be a money game. No matter how much the board or corporate administration want it to be – you must NOT trust those whose political motivations are prompted by financial gain. And BTW – stop hiring the same military brass that got you into this mess in the first place.
-duh
What is a boeing?
Gee, I didn’t see so much annoyance here about the Northrop Grumman protests on the CSAR helo contract that have delayed it for several years because Boeing submitted a larger aircraft than the bid requested.
Payback is a mother….
> Gee, I didn’t see so much annoyance here about the
> Northrop Grumman protests on the CSAR helo
> contract that have delayed it for several years
> because Boeing submitted a larger aircraft than
> the bid requested.
>
> Payback is a mother….
maybe because they didn’t protest it?
maybe because they were on the winning team?
http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/hh47/index.html
lol owned
> Hmmm the A-330 is in the same class as the 767?? Interesting line of horse manure.
then why do airlines always have competitions between them?
they never have competitions between the 737 and the A330
maybe it’s because they ARE in the same class
> The 757 was the wide body twin engine closest to the A-330 from Boeing.
1. the 757 was a NARROW body
2. the 757 line was shut down 4 years ago
> you tell me if it matches up
you need to learn that appearance is about the least important factor
what matters is what market they serve
and despite the difference in appearance (wingspan) both the 767 and A330 serve the same market
> They asked for medium and got heavy!
repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it true
ooh NAILED ME ON THE 757! Good Job…
Basic Characteristics taken from Airbus and Boeing
websites…
767 A330 777
wingspan 156 197 212
length 180 192 209
tail ht 52 56 61
these are just the basics…obviously the 330 is
closer in size to the 777 than the ’67. If Boeing
sticks to the point that larger NOT was included as
being pluses in the awarding of the contract then
they will win. Again Defense Industrial Daily has a
great graph showing the size differences. Again
the 330 should have competed against the 777 for
the KC-10 replacement. And again good one on the 757 that was bone headed on my part.
> Basic Characteristics taken from Airbus and Boeing
websites…
and your point is?
> If Boeing sticks to the point that larger NOT
> was included as being pluses in the awarding of
> the contract then they will win.
let’s put it this way:
would you rather have the plane that barely meets the specs and has higher lifecycle costs
OR
would rather have the plane that easily exceeds the criteria and has lower lifecycle costs
> Again Defense Industrial Daily has a
> great graph showing the size differences
Again what’s your point?
Boeing received the same RFP as EADS/NG
if they thought the 777 was a better fit, they could have offered it
they didn’t
end of story
> Again the 330 should have competed against the
> 777 for the KC-10 replacement.
and it might yet :)
“The Air Force blew it. AGAIN! JUST LIKE IN CSAR-X! They asked for medium and got heavy!”
No matter how many times you repeat this, it is still stupid. Northrop didn’t shove this thing down the USAF’s throat, and the USAF didn’t have to sit there passively accepting something it didn’t ask for. The USAF consulted extensively with both companies before those companies decided what to offer, and when those companies presented their offers, the USAF made a choice. Quite obviously, your view is the USAF should have chosen the “medium” 767 over the “heavy” A330, but the outcome should tell you that either the USAF didn’t want medium (if they did they would have chosen the 767), or the USAF considers the A330 medium.
The contest was fair, Boeing lost, get over it.
Here is another illustration of the relative size of the KC-135, KC-767 & KC-30.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/kc-x-image01.gif
***
irtusk,
Boeing did consider the 777 once it had seen the criteria changes which were obviously made just so that a larger (aka A330) tanker COULD be competative. Boeing asked the USAF if they preffered a 767-sized tanker or a 777-sized tanker. The USAF responded that the 777 was NOT that they wanted (for the same reasons the A330 was not chosen before) so Boeing stayed with the 767 under the completely understandable belief that the USAF still wanted & intended to procure the 767 (which STILL met or exceeded the stated criteria) just as they had decided years before. Unfortunately for Boeing the USAF was no longer in full control over the decision.
This story is far from over folks, who knows what will come out during the protest…
But hey just keep on drinking that NG/EADS Kool-Aid. ;)
> Here is another illustration of the relative size of the KC-135, KC-767 & KC-30.
so what?
> Boeing asked the USAF if they preffered a 767-sized tanker or a 777-sized tanker
no . . . they asked a couple of their general buddies which they preferred
the AF is no a homogeneous organization you know
> The USAF responded that the 777 was NOT that they wanted (for the same reasons the A330 was not chosen before)
there are several very legitimate reason to favor the 767 over the 777 but not the A330
1. price: the 777 is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than the 767 (the A330 isn’t and may in fact be cheaper)
2. takeoff performance: the 777 has worse takeoff performance than the 767 (the A330 is better than the 767)
3. development time/risk: both companies had spent considerable time developing the KC-767 and KC-30. To switch to a new airframe would have been pushed the schedule back and been risky
in other words JUST BECAUSE THE 767 IS BETTER THAN THE 777 DOESN’T MEAN THE 767 IS BETTER THAN THE A330
> so Boeing stayed with the 767 under the completely understandable belief that the USAF still wanted
you know what? that maybe have been true
you know what else? so the eff what
1. the competition was based on the letter of the RFP, not what some ‘Boeing Buddies’ thought the AF wanted
2. it’s very possible the AF changed its mind after EADS/NG showed them how wrong they were about the size issue
whatever the case, it’s only Boeing’s fault for not offering the 777
> intended to procure the 767 (which STILL met or exceeded the stated criteria)
which the KC-30 met or exceeded even better
they should know that with the scrutiny the program was under, they couldn’t go by ‘intent’
the only thing that mattered was the RFP and the KC-30 fit it better. FACT.
> Unfortunately for Boeing the USAF was no longer in full control over the decision
ORLY?
evidence please?
that’s a very serious accusation to make with ZErO PROOF
i guess you can’t comprehend that once they started evaluating the bids on their merits (novel idea i know) instead of their ‘feelings’ or ‘who gave the best bribe’ that the KC-30 actually won fair and square
> This story is far from over folks
that’s for sure
> who knows what will come out during the protest…
oh we already know that, more political grandstanding and xenophobia
irtusk,
I would laugh except for your lies & half-truths are actually sad rather than funny.
You have already demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of how the size & weight of different aircraft effect their operational capabilities/effectiveness so I am not going to attempt to explaing it to you AGAIN.
No, Boeing did not just ask “a couple of their general buddies” what the USAF preferred. It PUBLICILY proposed it at a Sep 2006 Air Force Association conference. And if the USAF really did want a larger tanker as some are suggesting why did it not suggest to Boeing that it did & suggest that a 777-based tanker would be preferred? The fact is the USAF did exactly the opposite.
The A330-200 (no matter how you want to massage the numbers) is in fact ~1/3 more expensive than the 767-200. Now it is true that the NG/EADS KC-X is only a varient/configuration of the A330-200 & the KC-767AT is only a varient/configuration of the 767-200 BUT when you start with an airframe that costs ~1/3 (~$40 million) more it takes some pretty shady accounting to get them even close…
Stop the BS – the KC-30 does not have better take-off preformance than the KC-767AT. The KC-767AT has the airframe of the smallest & lightest 767 with the wings & engines of heavier versions.
It is true that just because the 767 is a better KC-135 replacement than the 777 does not inandofitself mean that it is also a better KC-135 replacement than the A330 BUT many of the reasons why the 767 is a better KC-135 replacement than the 777 still hold true as to why it is a better KC-135 replacement than the A330.
I have already said that in my opinion that based on the final RFP criteria Boeing could (& perhaps should) have affered a larger airframe. BUT nothing in the RFP ruled out a 767-200 based tanker & Boeing still believes that (depending on how the criteria are judged & how they are weighted) that what they proposed is STILL the right choice. And Boeing is protesting the decision based on that belief (& that there are obvious irregularities in the evaluation/decision process).
> It PUBLICILY proposed it at a Sep 2006 Air Force Association conference.
yes, it was very public about proposing the KC-777, i remember reading several articles about it at the time
the question is did the airforce OFFICIALLY say they preferred the 767?
or is that just the ‘word on the street’ they got back?
> And if the USAF really did want a larger tanker as some are suggesting why did it not suggest to Boeing that it did
did it suggest anything to Boeing? i have seen no evidence of this
> The fact is the USAF did exactly the opposite.
what fact?
the real fact is that even if the USAF did officially say they preferred the 767 (which i doubt), there are several other considerations than simply size
namely the KC-777 wouldn’t have been ready in time to meet the deadlines in the RFP
if your choice is an airplane that can meet the deadline and an airplane that can’t meet the deadline, it’s not much of a contest
> The A330-200 (no matter how you want to massage the numbers) is in fact ~1/3 more expensive than the 767-200
nope. that’s just the irrelevant ‘list price’, which bears no relation to the real price
don’t forget the first time around EADS’s bid was $10 BILLION less
> The KC-767AT has the airframe of the smallest & lightest 767 with the wings & engines of heavier versions.
but with a full fuel load it’s going to be as heavy/heavier than the 767-400ER
and even the -400ER’s wings can’t compare to the ginormous A330 wings
wing area
767-400ER – 290.7m^2
A330-200 – 361.6m^2
this means a higher speed is needed to takeoff
and a higher speed means a longer braking distance, simple physics
a plane must be able to abort a takeoff at max speed and stop before the end of the runway
a runway that you can’t safely abort on is a runway you can’t use
> BUT many of the reasons why the 767 is a better KC-135 replacement
> than the 777 still hold true as to why it is a better KC-135
> replacement than the A330.
such as?
> BUT nothing in the RFP ruled out a 767-200 based tanker
absolutely agree
> Boeing still believes that (depending on how the criteria are judged
> & how they are weighted) that what they proposed is STILL the right choice.
or they believe that they have nothing to lose by protesting (which is true)
> And Boeing is protesting the decision based on that belief (& that there
> are obvious irregularities in the evaluation/decision process).
i believe you are confusing cause and effect
they HAVE to protest and thus are forced to claim that there are irregularities
irtusk,
Numberous USAF officials stated they did not want the 777 for the KC-X contract. Boeing even said in its annoucement to pitch the 767 that
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In order to play the Requiem, I bought much Requiem Lant, it spend me much money.
As usual, there are games to task; of course, this is no exception, because this can be upgraded! Thus the results and get more money! Of course, you can also buy LOTRO Gold!
As usual, there are games to task; of course, this is no exception, because this can be upgraded! Thus the results and get more money! Of course, you can also buy LOTRO Gold!
As usual, there are games to task; of course, this is no exception, because this can be upgraded! Thus the results and get more money! Of course, you can also buy LOTRO Gold!
As usual, there are games to task; of course, this is no exception, because this can be upgraded! Thus the results and get more money! Of course, you can also buy LOTRO Gold!
My friends in order to help me, send me much Requiem gold, I was very thank him.
And when the players arrived at five times, but also to their stores to buy music to play all kinds of music (on the map that has a place to buy guitar). You can also buy Lord Of The Rings Gold to achieve your strong!
Higher Vocational does not necessarily need to
“Our team has taken a very close look at the tanker decision and found serious flaws in the process that we believe warrant appeal,” . . .
The flaw? We lost to a European company.
However, if you enjoy Tibia Gold, you may consider buying premium time to take Tibia coins even further.
I believe that everyone who like playing Requiem Game all know the Avenging Angel Preview of Requiem Lant is very good.
family, and in the game can earn how much 2moons gold, I do not know these people are playing the game or game play them.
there is a soul of the same feeling, and every time you think of a buy dofus kamas, now also do not see in you.
from fear the beginning of the BB I to the present personal danger of me. I spend not only the flyff money but also my feeling.
in this mouth I spend much cronous gold, at that time I finally had some Cronous experience, but even then appropriative the awl and nms I still do not know what is, until one day I met a people
In my eyes only have how to earn more Archlord money.
in the game if you have enough fiesta money, you can get the comfortable life, Do not care about this
We can not be said that there are have love between us, I think during us only have the care for you, in order play with you, and I spend much money to buy the kal geons, in order to play with you, I refused many friends, only because you
We can not be said that there are have love between us, I think during us only have the care for you, in order play with you, and I spend much money to buy the kal geons, in order to play with you, I refused many friends, only because you
hey,find
So you should buy lindens as soon as possible. If you buy it immediately,you can play the game right now.I think you will not regret to buy it.
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