Comments on: FCS Can’t Get Any Love

By: http://www.linksoflondons.co.uk

http://www.linksoflondons.co.uk — Thu, 21 May 2009 14:41:55 +0000

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By: The Cenobyte

The Cenobyte — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:56:47 +0000

“a technology incubator program, a giant R&D effort for the ground pounders“
Coundn’t have said it better myself. One of the reasons I don’t like FCS is because of the money involved. We are trying to come up with the idea, create, massproduce and field all in one step. that’s silly some of this stuff is never going to work well in the field and we need to be ready to cut it when we figure it out as well as add new things on the fly.

By: citanon

citanon — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:35:39 +0000

Well, I take that back. Turns out it probably cost MS about $10 billion to develop Windows Vista. What I don’t take back are my doubts about Boeing’s engineering depth, which has shown up in the 787, the tanker deal and the space launch program. It’s not that Boeing is not good. It just seems they’ve been biting off more than they can chew considering the breath of their business.

By: TacOps Security

TacOps Security — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:24:41 +0000

It’s like the red wagon I had when I was a kid and now there is an adult version for tactical fun.

By: Cole

Cole — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:01:56 +0000

“It should not take $5 billion dollars to write software. Microsoft probably shipped Windows Vista for less.“
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Read that Vista is only 55 million lines of code and JSF is 19 million. FCS is many times more complex than either and has 95 million lines.
JSF– 19 million lines for 1 system
FCS– 95 million lines supporting 14 systems plus the network all interlinked internally and externally to other combat, combat support, logistics, ISR, and comms systems outside of FCS.

By: citanon

citanon — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:10:42 +0000

It should not take $5 billion dollars to write software. Microsoft probably shipped Windows Vista for less. I know a guy who sat in his apt for a year and wrote over a million lines of very complicated code (yes, thousands of lines of code per day; of course he was, in many ways, a genius).
Looking at the recent performance of Boeing, the prime contractor, in many areas (787, tanker, rocket launcher), it’s apparent that this company is in a situation where it has a strong core team of engineers but not enough to cover all product areas or work with subcontractors to consistently execute product designs.
I have a gut feeling that they have allowed their recruitment and retention efforts for new talent atrophy and the company is winning contracts on the strength of a core team of impressive people who do not have access to a sufficiently robust support structure to actually execute their proposals.

By: Cole

Cole — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:55:06 +0000

Christian, how much bad press did V-22 get over the years and it turned out pretty good, right.
I’ve already made a comment to the effect that Marines on V-22s or airborne troops are essentially interchangeable…so why spend so much on V-22 to drop in speed bumps for any major threat? The 82nd is a highly effective speed bump, as is!!
But speed bumps have many uses in places like Afghanistan. Then MG Petraeus was probably pretty partial to his commmanded 101st Airborne (AA) capabilities, as well. And although only
a few brigades kicked down the door in Iraq, it could have been much nastier without the 82nd and 101st mopping up the bypassed towns and securing the supply lines.
I think we all recognize that there won’t be many wars like Desert Storm anytime soon. The long war is the norm, and you need forces that can fight the long war at less cost in logistics and lives.
In closing, Christian, have you ever met a regular reporter or GAO member who liked ANYTHING about any weapons program?

By: Cole

Cole — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:25:06 +0000

“FCS is an interesting concept, but DARPA and some R&D arm of the Army should be looking at new technologies and than incrementing them into existing/developing platforms rather than trying to get the whole shebang at once. FCS has set unrealistic expectations and my experience is that the majority of military people don’t sufficiently understand software development. Much like I don’t understand the intricacies of joint operations at the Brigade or Division level. It is not what I am trained for.“
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But much of the software IS commercial produced by experts. I suspect that not a single member of the military is writing code.
In addition, much of the code used for some spin-outs is being duplicated for use on other systems. It isn’t millions of line of original code.
I know diddly squat about code and only know what I’ve read in news stories. But one of those stories spoke about the additional code costing perhaps $5 billion more than originally anticipated. Sounds like nothing compared to a $160 program with great applications outside of FCS.
The spin outs into the current force are already beginning…so yes some systems can support Abrams/Bradley. But the electrical requirements for most FCS systems cannot be achieved without the hybrid electric drive.…again just stuff read in news stores.
Other services seem to get away with expensive programs and nobody bats an eye. Look at the tanker program. Tanker X, Y, and Z over the next 25 or so years to hide/disguise the total cost of replacing tankers which I guess is three times $40 million per separate program.
Do you think someone would have a hissy fit if the Army said they were going to buy $120 billion worth of fuel trucks over the next 20 years that will never fire a round in anger? Oh wait, we are already spending much more than that for the F-22 which has yet to down a MIG or drop a bomb on the Taliban.…and likely won’t any time soon in a cost effective manner.

By: Cole

Cole — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:09:11 +0000

“The basic problem is the procurement process. We are trying to spec five years ahead of the current technology, for delivery in five years. Networking technology doesn’t work that way. By the time FCS is delivered, you will be able to buy an equivalent radio set made with overseas child labor for $99 at Costco.“
Wait a minute. On one hand you are implying that we should not wait 5 years for the newest stuff to be created and then produced so it isn’t already obsolete. Then you imply that we will be able to buy it cheap commercially.
Can you buy a secure SINCGARS radio commercially. I think not. You see what happens to the Taliban when they use commercial cell phones, right?
I also get amused that FCS gets blamed for slow progress of communications systems in many ways external to FCS and that are very much wanted by other services as well.
Frankly, I think the network is oversold as an absolute necessity for FCS to be effective. Suspect the NLOS-Cannon will be pumping rounds downrange against the enemy in a couple of years, without the network, using AFATDS. Just a guess.
When the network is ready, we can install it. Meanwhile, you are learning lots of lessons about the manned ground vehicle.

By: citanon

citanon — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:17:26 +0000

I believe one of the fundamental benefits of the FCS program to the Army is that the system of systems procurement model allows the Army to protect the development and procurement of items that would otherwise be vulnerable to being cut in the budgetary process. The current program structure aggregates the political influence of a diverse number of interest parties in the Army and the defense contractor community, and created political incentives across the large number of congressional districts that might potentially benefit. Furthermore, the structuring of a vast number of Army vehicles and weapon systems as a single interconnected system makes each more difficult to cut and shifts the budgetary decision power over individual vehicles from Capitol Hill and the DoD to the Army itself. Would we really be developing a new medical rescue vehicle, for example, if each of these systems were procured separately? And yet, developing it we are. It is no accident that the first system out the door is the NLOC, since tube artillery, as shown by the Crusader, was highly vulnerable in the post cold-war late 90’s environment.
Now the political and military environment has changed and the Army is shifting to adapt. I hope that the Army will concentrate mind and resources on the fundamental leap-ahead capabilities needed to fight future battles and spin out technologies as needed (indeed it looks like this is what they are doing). It would be irony of the highest order if clever political maneuvering resulted in unclear or wrong-headed thinking on actual war fighting needs.