DefenseTech Military.com
  • Categories
  • Full Archives
  • Monthly Archives
  • About Defense Tech
Subscribe to RSS

About Defense Tech

Defense Tech exam­ines the inter­sec­tion of tech­nol­ogy and defense from every angle and pro­vides analy­sis on what’s ahead.

Tip Us Off

Tip for Defense Tech?

SEND IT!

It’s Confidential!

Categories

  • 'Canes
  • Afghan Update
  • Ammo and Munitions
  • Armor
  • Around the Globe
  • Av Week Extra
  • Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
  • Bizarro
  • Blimps
  • Blog Bidness
  • Body Armor Blues
  • Bomb Squad
  • Brownshoes in Action
  • Bubbleheads, etc.
  • Cammo Green
  • Catch the "Buzz"
  • Chem-Bio
  • Civilian Apps
  • Cloak and Dagger
  • Commandos
  • Comms
  • Contingency Ops
  • Cops and Robbers
  • Cyber-warfare
  • Data Diving
  • Defense Tech Poll
  • Defense Tech Radio
  • Dissent Tech
  • Door Kickers
  • Drones
  • DT Administrivia
  • Eat DT's Dust
  • Extra! Extra!
  • Eye on China
  • Fast Movers
  • FCS Watch
  • Fire for Effect
  • FOS Files
  • Friday Funnies
  • Gadgets and Gear
  • Going Green
  • Grand Ole Osprey
  • Ground Vehicles
  • Guns
  • Homeland Security
  • In the Weeds with Eric
  • Info War
  • Iraq Diary
  • Jarhead Jazz
  • JSF Watch
  • Just War Theories
  • Lasers and Ray Guns
  • Less-lethal
  • Logistics
  • Los Alamos and Labs
  • M4 Monopoly
  • Medic!
  • Mercs
  • Missiles
  • Money Money Money
  • Most Wanted
  • MRAP Edge
  • Net-Centric
  • Nukes
  • Old Skool
  • Our Shrinking Planet
  • PEO Soldier
  • Planes, Copters, Blimps
  • Podcast
  • Politricks
  • Polmar's Perspective
  • Popular Mechanics
  • Rapid Fire
  • Raptor Watch
  • Red Team
  • Retro-Futuro
  • Robots
  • Roll Your Own
  • Sabra Tech
  • Ships and Subs
  • Snipertech
  • Soldier Systems
  • Space
  • Special Ops
  • Star Wars
  • Strategery
  • Stray Trons
  • Tactical Development
  • Terror Tech
  • The Deadlies
  • The Defense Biz
  • The Peoples' Site
  • The Sunday Paper
  • The Tanker Tango
  • The View from Av Week
  • Those Nutty Norks
  • Training and Sims
  • Trimble on the Case
  • Uncategorized
  • Video Lounge
  • War Update
  • Ward'z Wonderz
  • You can run…

Archives

  • November 2009
  • October 2009
  • September 2009
  • August 2009
  • July 2009
  • June 2009
  • May 2009
  • April 2009
  • March 2009
  • February 2009
  • January 2009
  • December 2008
  • November 2008
  • October 2008
  • September 2008
  • August 2008
  • July 2008
  • June 2008
  • May 2008
  • April 2008
  • March 2008
  • February 2008
  • January 2008
  • December 2007
  • November 2007
  • October 2007
  • September 2007
  • August 2007
  • July 2007
  • June 2007
  • May 2007
  • April 2007
  • March 2007
  • February 2007
  • January 2007
  • December 2006
  • November 2006
  • October 2006
  • September 2006
  • August 2006
  • July 2006
  • June 2006
  • May 2006
  • April 2006
  • March 2006
  • February 2006
  • January 2006
  • December 2005
  • November 2005
  • October 2005
  • September 2005
  • August 2005
  • July 2005
  • June 2005
  • May 2005
  • April 2005
  • March 2005
  • February 2005
  • January 2005
  • December 2004
  • November 2004
  • October 2004
  • September 2004
  • August 2004
  • July 2004
  • June 2004
  • May 2004
  • April 2004
  • March 2004
  • February 2004
  • January 2004
  • December 2003
  • November 2003
  • October 2003
  • September 2003
  • August 2003
  • July 2003
  • June 2003
  • May 2003
  • April 2003
  • March 2003
  • February 2003
  • January 2003

Home » Trimble on the Case » Growler Day

Growler Day

growler.jpg

In a driz­zly cer­e­mony today, we will wit­ness Secretary of the Navy Don Winter accept the deliv­ery of the first EA-​​18G Growler to the USN’s fleet readi­ness squadron.

This would be a fairly rou­tine affair except for a cou­ple of very dis­tin­guish­ing facts: first, the event is occur­ring exactly accord­ing to the orig­i­nal sched­ule and, sec­ond, Boeing’s five-​​year-​​old devel­op­ment pro­gram is not over-​​budget.

It’d be nice to think those two facts weren’t so extra­or­di­nary, but, in the world of mil­i­tary acqui­si­tion, it is.

To be sure, there remain a few caveats. The oper­a­tional test phase begins in September, which will expose any unre­solved design or tech­nol­ogy glitches. The Government Accountability Office reported in March that a few soft­ware issues need to be fixed before oper­a­tional tests can be per­formed. We’ll see how that pans out, but none of the issues sound like show-​​stoppers.

Some of the more cyn­i­cal observers (blush) might also say that Boeing and the Navy cheated with the EA-​​18G.

This is not the same as start­ing a new weapon project from scratch. The air­frame for the EA-​​18G is based on the design of the already proven F/​A-​​18E/​F Super Hornet and the elec­tronic war­fare pack­age is based largely on the ICAP III suite already fly­ing on the EA-​​6B Prowler. The ALQ-​​99 jam­mer is merely a decade-​​old, upgraded ver­sion of a pod that first flew in 1971 (and needs to be retired as threats evolve over the next decade).

But it’s also not fair to Boeing to dis­miss the com­plex­ity of this project. Repackaging the ICAP III to fit inside the Growler involved no small risk. The “foot­ball” ALQ-​​218 receiver mounted on the EA-6B’s tail was split into two pieces and installed in the more aero­dy­nam­i­cally harsh envi­ron­ment of the EA-18G’s wingtips. I’m still curi­ous how they man­aged to pull off the ALQ-218’s radome, which must be sturdy enough to sur­vive on the wingtip, yet not too sturdy to inter­fere with the oper­a­tions of the embed­ded antenna.

Integrating the all-​​new Raytheon-​​made Communications Countermeasures Set (CCS) also added some com­plex­ity to the project, as did the intro­duc­tion of the highly use­ful inter­fer­ence can­cel­la­tion sys­tem (INCANS), which allows the EA-​​18G to con­tinue jam­ming an enemy radar even while the pilot con­tin­ues to com­mu­ni­cate with other friendly aircraft.

It’s rea­son­able to ques­tion whether the navy should have been still more ambi­tious. Why not intro­duce an all-​​new, digital-​​era jam­ming pod with the first deliv­ery of the EA-​​18G? Why not design a next-​​generation jam­mer air­craft around a more stealthy plat­form, like the navy’s forth­com­ing F-​​35C due to be deliv­ered in 2015? Why not chal­lenge your con­trac­tor — to which you’re pay­ing bil­lions of dol­lars — to invent some­thing com­pletely new, ver­sus “repack­ag­ing” two famil­iar systems?

At the end of the day, the navy is get­ting exactly what it paid for, on-​​time. In this day and age, maybe that’s all you can really ask for.

– Steve Trimble

Share |

June 3rd, 2008 | Trimble on the Case | 288426 Comments »http://defensetech.org/2008/06/03/growler-day/Growler+Day2008-06-03+19%3A00%3A45Ward You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

« « …Is this the New Counter-​​Insurgency Aircraft? | A Signature Naval Battle » »

This website uses IntenseDebate comments, but they are not currently loaded because either your browser doesn't support JavaScript, or they didn't load fast enough.

  1. ADyer says:
    June 3, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    “Why not design a next-​​generation jam­mer air­craft around a more stealthy plat­form, like the navy’s forth­com­ing F-​​35C due to be deliv­ered in 2015?“
    Three big rea­sons pop out at me. First, the F-35’s big sell­ing point is stealth, but EW is an inher­ently un-​​stealthy job. Jamming involves mas­sive emis­sions which, while they con­fuse sen­sors and make tar­get­ing a pain, also betray the exis­tence and rough loca­tion of the jam­mer air­craft. If the air­craft is doing its job cor­rectly then it also wouldn’t need to be stealthy, as hos­tile sen­sors would be blinded by it’s jam­ming equip­ment.
    Second, the F-​​35 is a com­pact sin­gle seat air­craft. The EW mis­sion seems to require at least 2 crew mem­bers (the EA-​​6B has 4) which would neces­si­tate a major mod­i­fi­ca­tion to the F-​​35. Given the lim­ited space inter­nally, fit­ting all the elec­tron­ics, as well as enough fuel for long range and good loi­ter time, not to men­tion anti radi­a­tion mis­siles, would be near impos­si­ble. You would almost cer­tainly need to use exter­nal tanks and jam­mer pods, which sort of defeats the pur­pose of the F-​​35.
    Third, the EA-​​18G is avail­able now, and is pretty much guar­an­teed to work with­out too much trou­ble. The EA-​​6 is get­ting old and worn out, and it would be a lot of trou­ble to keep that air­craft fly­ing for the time it would take to develop an EF-​​35, assum­ing such a pro­gram would ever prove fea­si­ble at all.

    Reply
  2. Old Sailor says:
    June 3, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    On the other hand, why rein­vent the wheel, when what we already have is still work­ing fine (if that is true)? I’ve seen far too many instances of gold-​​plating weapon sys­tems that unnec­es­sar­ily increased the cost and com­plex­ity for no good rea­son.
    Case in point: the Crusader (now can­celled and incor­po­rated into the NLOS Cannon of the FCS. During devel­op­ment, a deci­sion was made to place all of the vital infor­ma­tion of the vehi­cle on the dig­i­tal crew screen, such as amount of fuel on board, miles trav­eled, etc.
    Think for a few min­utes about how much money was required to cre­ate the screen design and the soft­ware to make it work (untold thou­sands of dol­lars in $50 dollar/​hour Software Engineer hours) ver­sus sim­ply using the tried-​​and-​​tested mechan­i­cal dis­plays (like dials or even dot-​​matrix dis­plays) that already exist and work well and cost prac­ti­cally noth­ing by com­par­i­son.
    Any infor­ma­tion that was needed in a dig­i­tal for­mat by other sen­sors could eas­ily have been cre­ated and sent to them with­out going to the trou­ble of cre­at­ing a fancy screen dis­play which looked great but was really unnec­es­sary.
    Moral of the story: I think if some good old-​​fashioned com­mon sense would be used by Defense con­trac­tors, costs could be slashed and the defense bud­get would be far more effec­tive than it is. Unfortunately, I observed first-​​hand the desire by some to empha­size beauty over util­ity, which prob­a­bly did much to end up killing the pro­gram in the end.

    Reply
  3. chris barreno says:
    June 3, 2008 at 4:05 pm

    “invent some­thing com­pletely new, ver­sus “repack­ag­ing” two famil­iar sys­tems?“
    The Navy wanted com­mon­al­ity among its air­frames thats why.

    Reply
  4. Tim says:
    June 3, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Where did you find $50/​hr soft­ware engi­neers?
    It’s more like $150/​hr.

    Reply
  5. Erik says:
    June 3, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    I would imag­ine the automa­tion required by going from 3 bod­ies down to 1 run­ning the show is enough to take on. Why add new air­frame and untested hardware?

    Reply
  6. m tosta says:
    June 3, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    “Why not design a next-​​generation jam­mer air­craft around a more stealthy plat­form” ?!?…
    Doesn’t any­body remem­ber the A-​​12 fly­ing Dorito? Sheesh…

    Reply
  7. DopplerDave says:
    June 3, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Active jam­mer on a stealth air­craft. Who is the friggen genius that authored that ques­tion? Please tell me it wasn’t the author of a post on a sup­pos­edly defense-​​related blog?

    Reply
  8. grant says:
    June 3, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    Stealth alone isn’t going to be able to cut it in the next decade against mod­ern SAMs and 5th gen­er­a­tion fight­ers, that’s why. Remember the whole plan­ning ahead thing? Yeah, that’s what mount­ing a stealthy jam­mer on a stealthy 5th gen­er­a­tion plane will be necessary.

    Reply
  9. Stephen Trimble says:
    June 3, 2008 at 8:53 pm

    The need for stealth even for a jam­mer isn’t really so dif­fi­cult to grasp. A first-​​day-​​of-​​war strike pack­age of F-​​22s and B-​​2s would be eas­ily com­pro­mised on early warn­ing radars by their own escort jam­mers if they lack basic low-​​observability characteristics.

    Reply
  10. tyler says:
    June 3, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    SHOCKER 4 LIFE

    Reply
  11. Old Sailor says:
    June 4, 2008 at 3:56 am

    Well, the aver­age back in 2001 was about 50/​hour, and the hot-​​shot Database jocks would come in for about 70/​hour on short assign­ments, but I don’t recall any­body mak­ing $150/​hour back then. However, it could be that they just kept it quiet so that nobody would get jeal­ous.
    Are you say­ing that the aver­age is now $150/​hour? If that’s true, then its no won­der that so much of the soft­ware work has migrated to India and else­where where they think $10/​hour is a lot of money.

    Reply
  12. Steve Dixon says:
    June 4, 2008 at 5:28 am

    “Active Jammer on a Stealth Airframe“
    If that isn’t an OXYMORON then there truly is “Army Intelligence”.
    Snicker … snicker.

    Reply
  13. Theecmo says:
    June 4, 2008 at 6:56 am

    The Marines are all ready plan­ning on an F-​​35 jam­mer. As for stealth, jam­ming is not nec­es­sar­ily just brute noise scream­ing through the ether and giv­ing away your posi­tion. There are other ways to mess with enemy sys­tems that would be in sym­pa­tico with a stealth air­craft. Finally, if they ever get around to field­ing a bet­ter sys­tems with say phased array and more sophis­ti­cated capa­bil­i­ties (read expen­sive) then this should be even less of a prob­lem.
    To me the real draw­back of any of these (EA-​​18 or EF-​​35) is the reduc­tion in crew mem­bers. I learned a long time ago that the more com­plex the envi­ron­ment (or task) the more likely the auto­mated sys­tems are to lie to you. With only one ded­i­cated oper­a­tor work­ing the entire EM spec­trum while rely­ing on the sys­tem to catch the impor­tant stuff, we’re set­ting our­selves up for failure.

    Reply
  14. Old Crusty Chief says:
    June 4, 2008 at 8:11 am

    Re: Old Sailor
    Shipmate, the beam in our col­lec­tive eye is not that any of the pro­grams, sys­tems, and super wham­my­dynes COULD be brought to the Fleet less expen­sively, it is that they WILL NOT be.
    You wouldn’t believe it if a whore told you she loved you, so why do we believe the pro­cure­ment wanks and the con­trac­tors when they whis­per sweet things in our ears about… well… any­thing.
    There is just far too much money flow­ing through the Pentagon’s teats for it to be any other way.
    Cheers,
    Chief B.

    Reply
  15. Torch says:
    June 4, 2008 at 11:09 am

    The EF-​​111 Raven was about 10 years newer than the EA-​​6B Prowler, but both were devel­oped from 60s air­frames. The Prowler proved a more eco­nom­i­cal air­craft, using the same jam­ming sys­tem.
    During the Cold War, three EF-​​111s could jam the entire east­ern front. The EA-​​6B has that same abil­ity; as well, the Growler is also capa­ble.
    The need for an imme­di­ate replace­ment brought the EA-​​18G to the fore­front, with advance­ments in devel­op­ing for a future jam­ming air­craft already in devel­op­ment. The biggest advan­tage of the Growler is, it will be armed and able to pro­tect itself.
    Jammers don’t have a need for stealth, because they don’t have to fly in harms way to accom­plish their mission.

    Reply
  16. Old Crusty Chief says:
    June 4, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Re: Coolhand77
    Growler is an on-​​time, under-​​budget bird prob­a­bly because it is evo­lu­tion­ary, not rev­o­lu­tion­ary.
    We’ve been to the fan­room about this here on DT, oh, about a thou­sand times. Requirements-​​creep is the other side of the spi­ralling costs prob­lem. For what­ever rea­son, the guys in uni­form who write the specs for sys­tems just can’t seem to resist the temp­ta­tion to fid­dle with things. We can not expect any builder to deliver aything on time or on bud­get if the buyer keeps adding, remov­ing, or mod­i­fy­ing what’s being built. Ya don’t need an MBA to fathom that one.
    A clean sheet EW bird would today still be just a bunch of CAD draw­ings… with the NAVAIR boys twid­dling them every time Mikoyan burps. Much like the NAVSEA boys have done with the erst­while DD(X) and CG(X) pro­grams. For what we’ve flushed in design­ing these hulls we could have reac­ti­vated, mod­ern­ized, crewed, and steamed two BBs. Including all the whizbang all-​​electric propul­sion. But I digress…
    I sus­pect that the kids mak­ing mushy-​​balls in their Huggies today, will be fly­ing an evolved EA-​​18 many moons from now. Much the same as are the dar­ing young folks fly­ing the Prowler today; a fine air­craft birthed from pedi­greed stock.
    But hey, we’re all just preach­ing to stones. Ain’t nobody in DC lis­ten­ing… and they prob­a­bly wish that we’d shut up, too.
    Cheers,
    Chief B.

    Reply
  17. Old Sailor says:
    June 4, 2008 at 12:33 pm

    I sec­ond what you said, Chief! Anchors aweigh!

    Reply
  18. coolhand77 says:
    June 4, 2008 at 1:26 pm

    Heres to evo­lu­tion!
    Now if all our mil­i­tary procur­ment toads and defense indus­try manip­u­la­tors would take notice from this. Evolution in sys­tems leads to progress on time and on budject…waiting for the next rev­o­lu­tion is a los­ing propo­si­tion because while you are wait­ing for your rev­o­lu­tion (army not want­ing to upgrade till they get their man portable rail/​laser/​guided rocket gun?) your enemy has been evolv­ing and exceed­ing your cur­rent capa­bil­i­ties with more units fielded for less money (Chinese 5.8mm rifles with high BC/​SD bul­lets and sim­i­lar bal­lis­tics to maybe the Grendel? guess­ing and pro­ject­ing, no actual knowl­edge).
    I’m tired of see­ing them wait­ing on the ray guns. and transat­mos­pheric stealth STOVL rockets.

    Reply
  19. Torch says:
    June 4, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    [quote]The need for stealth even for a jam­mer isn’t really so dif­fi­cult to grasp. A first-​​day-​​of-​​war strike pack­age of F-​​22s and B-​​2s would be eas­ily com­pro­mised on early warn­ing radars by their own escort jam­mers if they lack basic low-​​observability characteristics.[/quote]
    News for you mate,
    ECM puts an umbrella around the attack air­craft. Early warn­ing radar won’t see them and as one poster put it, it’s an oxy­moron to think stealth would be nec­es­sary for the ECM aircraft. :}

    Reply
  20. Macaca says:
    June 7, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Jammers also dont need stealth because they broad­cast enor­mous amount of sig­nals. It looks a bit silly to spend big money on stealth (to avoid bounc­ing back radar waves) when at the same time send­ing out masses of mul­ti­spec­trum waves.

    Reply
  21. Doc says:
    June 9, 2008 at 9:35 am

    Bravo Zulu to all who posted… great com­ments!
    Just one point, and in not mean­ing to debate present or future air doc­trine, but at some point in the future there will be a time, place or ter­rain (open ocean?) were we wish or need the jam­ming air­craft to arrive on sta­tion with­out being detected before light­ing off. Well, maybe.
    Have a great one!

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Click here to cancel reply.

Spam Protection by WP-SpamFree

By commenting on this topic you agree to the terms and conditions of our User Agreement

    Today's Hottest Topics
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
    • Pinnacle's New Armor
    • Marines Quiet About Brutal New Weapon
    • BREAK-BREAK: Units to Get New Camo Revealed
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
    Recent Comments
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
      They are going to have to look at the whole...
      Wembley
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
      Just look at this " picture " for a moment. The...
      Zandor
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      I know LOSAT seemed awesome but wasn't it cancelled? I...
      JimboJones
    • BAE to Market Mantis UAV to North America
      Yes you're quite right, I get to witness...
      JimboJones
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
      I'm disappointed. When are they going to make clothes...
      Nadnerbus
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
      Part II : * USMC attempts to make a single seat (no...
      freefallingbomb
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
      Part I : I think we're not the only ones on the...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part III : Guided missiles will also be programmed to...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part II : If a tank shoots at another tank at only 5...
      freefallingbomb
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
      Part I : To the poster "Will" : You wrote:...
      freefallingbomb
    Recent Articles
    • Army Launches Examination of Armor Testing
    • New Camo Pattern on the Block
    • BAE to Market Mantis UAV to North America
    • Pinnacle’s New Armor
    • Zapping Drones from a Truck
    • Northrop Invests Own Money In Fire Scout
    • IMINT: French Fashion Mavens Model MultiCam
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
    • Super Cavitation and the Truth
    • Mantis Begins Search For Prey
    Recent Hot Topics
    • Marines Quiet About Brutal New Weapon
    • The Osprey has Landed
    • UPDATED: Details on Army's New Afghanistan Duds
    • VTOL JSF Arrives at Pax River
    • Iraq Cyber Attack and the DigiSEALs
    • Pinnacle's New Armor
    • (Proof) The Osprey Has Landed
    • Grim Wanat Footage
    • REPLACEMENT ARM, GOOD AS NEW
    • IMINT: French Fashion Mavens Model MultiCam
  • Channels: Military.com | Military Benefits | Military News | Off Duty | Join the Military | Military Education | Veteran Jobs | Military Money | Military Deals | Military Family | Military Community
  • Military.com Network: Military.com | MilBlogging | Defense Tech | DoD Buzz | SpouseBuzz | Fred's Place | GI Bill Express
  • Services: Army | Navy | Air Force | Marine Corps | Coast Guard | National Guard | Military Spouse
  • About Military.com About Us | Advertise With Us | Press | Affiliate Program | Monster Network | Help | Feedback | Privacy Policy | User Agreement | © 2009 Military Advantage