Comments on: …Is this the New Counter-Insurgency Aircraft?

By: ?

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:06:50 +0000

thank you admin very good

By: ?

Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:06:50 +0000

thank you admin very good

By: Karl

Karl — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:45:39 +0000

I have been looking at these planes, and the A10 design for low altitude seems to work, If you want a prop plane, go back to the ww2 design of the P38 and upgrade it for modern times. twin engine, 20 mm gun good bomb payload, good range and speed. Just a thought.

By: Mixelplic

Mixelplic — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:50:27 +0000

Iraq has already used light turbotrainers (PC-7s IIRR) to great effect in the first Gulf War with Iran. Very useful platform cross-FLOT chase platform for dealing with helo raiding and resupply/medevac efforts. Damn near useless when faced with ‘real’ fighters (as I recall, in 1991, an Iraqi PC-7 or 9 had the pilot bail out when the Su-17 he was FACing for got nailed by an F-15) but a great deal more flexible in staying low and /just/ beyond the reach of frontal AD in a contested area.
The latter is the key delineator now because as more and more of these toys show up in places like Chad, there is no reason not to assume that SA-7/14/16/18 etc. will not follow them as the natural counter.
At which point you run into a severe problem in that you either need a sensor package and PGM system sufficient to stay well out on the delivery slant and above the trashfire, all hours.
Or you need a TADIRCM type mini laserhead jammer.
And typically, these machines just don’t have the kva generator capacity to handle either.
There are some exceptions, I believe Brazil has an AT-29 variant of their Super Tucano with a permanent FLIR mount under the belly for instance.
But in any case, until you start mating up _cheap_ (productionized with lots of orders) systems like Spike, Viper-Strike, SCALPEL or GBU-39/40, when they become available, you will never be really safe. Because anything which puts the nose below the horizon (including Hellfire and LCPK/APKWS) will lock up your ground track for long enough to get a MANPADS into air.
MAWS and Flares may help a little but only a /very/ little against the latest heat seekers. Indeed, I seem to recall what eventually drove off the Iraqi Chopper Killers was the Iranian RBS-70 purchase.
All of the above being said, what bothers me about Iraq is that we are creating an insurgency defeating force on the presumption that when we leave, not only will the war cook off again but the main government factions will stick together to nail down whoever raises their heads to get hammered. This seems ridiculous at best, given what delayed the Constitution and –still– farks up the profit sharing arranged is the very fact that democracy makes pluralcy, not majority opinion.
Something which will change when they go the way they have always said they wanted to: back to a religious fundamentalist (sharia) government.
I don’t want to see a dictatorship of Shiia fundamentalism become the new driving power in Iraq but if it happens, I don’t see the wisdom in arming them with aircraft that can reach beyond sectarian lines to use airpower to breach the very kinds of ‘if not the pen, then the sword!’ impasses they threw up against us.
Because the essential difference between CAS/COIN and BAI/OBAS is how long you stick around vs. how many initial casualties you (FFAR spray) create so that a followon ground force can come in and finish things.

By: RotaryWingPilot

RotaryWingPilot — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:01:00 +0000

The Bronco was known as being somewhat underpowered for the job. Upengine it, and then you’d be talking. Key elements for a COIN aircraft have probably changed since Vietnam, though. A medium-speed FAC(A) capability with a lot of sensors and some precision weapons and decent endurance is what you probably need.

By: DRBall

DRBall — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:16:17 +0000

They are still using the OV-10 in P.I. and of couse by the C.D.F. and of course the OV-10 with the M-197 20 mm was great.

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By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:54:15 +0000

I still believe this plane is a good close air support aircraft, but not the best COIN aircraft.
Like I said before, an aircraft like an attack helicopter, AC130 gunship, or something like the predator are all great COIN aircraft because they can 1. Observe with great sensors for the few enemies making the attack and causing the trouble, and 2. Make the precision strike or more if needed.
Some aircraft can do one or the other, but the ones I mentioned above can do both very well. This plane mentioned can make strikes.. but we have plenty of aircraft that can do that. What is needed is an all in one aircraft such as an AC130, Attack helo (Apache) or UAV like the predator with a great sensor pod below it and hellfire precision strikes. Aircraft like the A10, Tucano, and Fighter jets able to make precision drops are all good ground support craft, but not COIN aircraft. Theres a difference.

By: WR

WR — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:35:25 +0000

Byron Skinner,
TINSTA ALLONS! TINSTA ALLONS!
V/R,
WR

By: Kevin

Kevin — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:36:37 +0000

The Pentagon would never accept it because they couldn’t justify tacking on an extra $10 million per copy like they would want to. It just wouldn’t screw the American tax payer enough.