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Iraq Getting World’s Best Tank

by Ward Carroll on August 5, 2008

m1a2-tank.jpg

Saw this little tidbit from Defense Industry Daily today. Looks like Iraq is in line to get the best tank in the world…

On July 31/08, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency announced Iraqs formal request to buy M1 Abrams tanks, well as the associated vehicles, equipment and services required to keep these tanks in the field. It is likely that the tanks themselves will be transferred from US stocks, but this has not been verified. With this purchase, Iraq will become the 4th M1 Abrams operator in the region, joining Egypt (M1A1s), Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia (M1A2-SEP variant).

I’m having a great time watching as the Iraqi army builds up its capability. We reported several months ago that it had received electronic counter-IED systems for some of their VIP vehicles, I’m seeing a lot more up-armored Humvees over there and quite a few MRAP vehicles on Iraqi patrols as well.

But the request for M1 tanks takes the build-up to a new level. It’s like ordering F-15s for their air force. The DSCA says Iraq wants to buy 140 M1A2M tanks and eight M88A2 recovery vehicles.

But the $2.16 billion wish list doesn’t end there, the Iraqi government also wants:

  • 64 M1151A1B1 Armored High Mobility Multi-Purpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWV)
  • 92 M1152 Shelter Carriers
  • 12 M577A2 Command Post Carriers
  • 16 M548A1 Tracked Logistics Vehicles
  • 8 M113A2 Armored Ambulances
  • 420 AN/VRC-92 Vehicular Receiver Transmitters

And the list doesn’t stop there…

35 M1070 Heavy Equipment Transporter (HET) Truck Tractors, 40 M978A2 Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (HEMTT) Tankers, 36 M985A2 HEMTT Cargo Trucks, 4 M984A2 HEMTT Wrecker Trucks, 140 M1085A1 5-ton Cargo Trucks, 8 HMMWV Ambulances w/ Shelter, 8 Contact Maintenance Trucks, 32 500 gal Water Tank Trailers, 16 2500 gal Water Tank Trucks, 16 Motorcycles, 80 8 ton Heavy/Medium Trailers, 16 Sedans, 92 M1102 Light Tactical trailers, 92 635NL Semi-Trailers, 4 5,500 lb Rough Terrain Forklifts, 20 M1A1 engines, 20 M1A1 Full Up Power Packs, 3 spare M88A2 engines, 10 M1070 engines, 20 HEMTT engines, 4 M577A2 spare engines, 2 5-ton truck engines, 20 spare HMMWV engines, ammunition, spare and repair parts, maintenance, support equipment, publications and documentation, personnel training and equipment, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support.

I want to know who gets the motorcycles.

– Christian

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{ 90 comments… read them below or add one }

Camp August 5, 2008 at 6:06 am

I wonder if they'll use "Steel Beasts Pro" as they're tank training sim? :)
http://steelbeasts.com/
http://www.esimgames.com/steel_beasts_pro.htm
http://afvsim.com/products.htm

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Ed August 5, 2008 at 6:21 am

Ok first to Juergen, are you kidding me with the Leopard 2 being the better tank?
TB, they are buying these tanks while we are still there, not to mention the fact they most likely will act like every other Arab country over there with our stuff, break it and wait for the contractors to fix it. Now this purchased would help them in one key aspect, if its a unit guarding positions near Iran, it would be nice to have a tank that can smoke anything the Iranians have in their inventory.

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jerry January 9, 2010 at 12:47 am

Ed
having been a tank commander for some 10 years i can tell you the german tank is far better than the M1, like wise is the challenger 1 and for that matter 2 however that aside the tanks are 2nd hand not new, and i doubt will be refurbished, having been in gulf 1 the m1 was not that good the US lost more to RPG then tank combat the UK lost none except 1 to blue on blue, in fact one took a milan missle and 14 close range rpg hits and still continued fight and drove back to base and was back in the field in side 4 hours. the m1 is not the best.

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Old Sailor August 5, 2008 at 8:37 am

Well, hey, they’ve got the dough to pay for it, so spend on!

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Juergen August 5, 2008 at 8:59 am

Of course Iraq is NOT getting the worlds best tank – Krauss-Maffei wasn’t even asked, nor did Germany allow export of the Leo2… so they have to settle for the Abrams instead

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mike August 5, 2008 at 9:40 am

Can you say “Iranian Tomcats?”

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TB August 5, 2008 at 9:47 am

They’re buying the most maintenance intensive MBT in the world in a country that couldn’t even afford spare parts during the Saddam military era. Are they going to fly them to the States for depot-level maintenance or hire out contractors for that? I don’t mind them buying brand new humvees, MRAPs, and support systems, but I question the need for the Abrams and their ability to keep them running. Is anyone else concerned about the ability of Iran to chop-shop one of them after we hand the keys to the Iraqis?
Also if they want VRC-92s, what radios are they going to put in them? It sure as hell better not be SINCGARS.

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Matthew G. Saroff August 5, 2008 at 10:04 am

This isn’t arming the Iraqi army, there are thousands of T-72s and T-54s and BMPs in depot somewhere.
This is a payoff to US defense contractors.

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Jimbo Jones August 5, 2008 at 10:39 am

“This isn’t arming the Iraqi army, there are thousands of T-72s and T-54s and BMPs in depot somewhere.
This is a payoff to US defense contractors.”
waaaa waaaa unfair unfair waaaa waaaa – seriously though who the hell wants an army of t-54s and 72′s, there peices of crap.
“Of course Iraq is NOT getting the worlds best tank – Krauss-Maffei wasn’t even asked, nor did Germany allow export of the Leo2… so they have to settle for the Abrams instead”
waaaaa waaaa they shoulda bought german we are best – dude your leo2 is very nice and all but hardly combat proven,unless you consider petty balken conflicts as a serious test, besides why would Iraqi’s buy sht from you guys, you did your best to keep Saddam in power and hold back Iraq, you really think Iraqis are going to like you lot for that?
I guess you think Iraq should buy from any old country even if they are not an ally like germany is no ally of Iraq. Dosnt make sense to me for Iraq to purchase arms from a country that is not their ally. Guess your dim-witted goverment should have thought about this sort of thing before trying its best to keep a vicious brutal dictator in power….. lol.

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FOARP August 5, 2008 at 11:22 am

As a Brit, I’ve got to mention that the longest-range kills and best armour (sans TUSK) belongs to Challenger 2. M1A2 Abrams may edge it in reliability, but is it really the best tank in the world?

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GB August 5, 2008 at 12:12 pm

Gas powered tank in a nation “floating” on oil.
Is this making strategic sense?

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Vitor August 5, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Since the Leo2 is considerably less maintanance heavy than tha M1, it would be a much better tank to Iraq.

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jeff August 5, 2008 at 12:31 pm

It is the best combat proven main battle tank in the world. No other modern battle tank has seen more combat so saying the tanks like the Leopard or LC are better is pure fantasy. Neither of those tanks has even seen 1% of the combat the M1 has seen.
The Abrams is the best tank in the world hands down. All the others are just great training tanks!
Keff

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DJ Elliott August 5, 2008 at 12:51 pm

On a lighter note: The bikes are probably going to the IP traffic cops. They are expanding too. Those buys are CTB, MoD, and MoI. You are getting a little slow on the uptake. That notice was published at the DSCA site on the 1 Aug.
As to the rest, my read on the 10.8 billion dollars of FMS buys in the last week before congress takes a 30 day vacation is that someone wanted to avoid congressional political gamesmanship. Congress has 30 days during which they can block such sales and they are on vacation for 30 days…
My write up is here.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/08/iraqi_security_force_18.php

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Foreign.Boy August 5, 2008 at 1:15 pm

The Abrams is the most battle proven tank… being as most tank battles have involved the US. Others say the Leopard for its ease of repair and flexibility.
The challenger could also be hailed the world best tank because so few have been destroyed. However, if you want to get right down to it… it depends on your criteria.
I remember watching CNN after the first year of the Iraq war, and there was a special on how the US army was collecting tanks captured or destroyed during the invasion. With the plans to repair them for the new Iraq Army. So my question is… will they still use the old Russian tanks? Or are they just new multi-million dollar targets?

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Vercingetorix August 5, 2008 at 1:47 pm

The Leopard would be a terrible choice; nobody knows how to use it in battle, especially not the Americans who will be advising the Iraqis for the foreseeable future. Beyond any other advantage, the embedded training with the Americans and the joint supply trains make much more sense than any other rationale.
And, yeah, before you can wear the title belt, you have to have won a bout. Only the Merkava and Challenger really comes close to the M-1. The LeClerc and Leopard are boutique tanks.

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freefallingbomb August 5, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Uhh… what if one or two of these “World’s best” Abrams tanks suddenly get lost during an Iraqi sandstorm or are “maintained” by Chinese and Russian “tank experts”? (I pray for this to happen)
And why not sell F-22′s to the Iraqis too? After all, “we” control Iraq now, don’t we?!

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Vercingetorix August 5, 2008 at 2:02 pm

FFB, you’re not an American, so “you” probably don’t even control your own Eurotrash country. Good times.

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blue August 5, 2008 at 2:30 pm

German Leopard2 tanks would no doubt be the top candidates for World’s Best Tank. Even the Abrams uses German technology.
@Jimbo Jones
seems the Americans have their very own perception of history.

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DJ Elliott August 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm

Foreign.Boy
- The IA operates 72 salvaged/survived T54/55 tanks.
- About 50 BMP1 MICVs of the 434 in the IA are salvage or survived. The rest were bought or donated from Greece.
- 61 MTLB APCs in the IA are salv/surv.
That is prety much it for the IA’s salvaged tracks. The Russian equipment is being concentrated in the 9th Div.
Note: The Russians and Chinese have had all the data they want on the M1A1 for decades now. It is not new tech. Egypt has had them for a decade. Then there is Saudi, Kuwait,…

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Juergen August 5, 2008 at 2:39 pm

@keff: “It is the best combat proven main battle tank”
Well… the only MBT actually used in tank battles in the last 20 years were the M1, Challenger, and T-72.
The Challenger didn’t get much action, the T-72 got bombed a lot and had lousily trained crews, and the M1 won.
However, sales figures for the M1 weren’t all that great, in competitions the M1 lost to Leo2, LeClerc and Challenger2 pretty much every time… so your claim of the M1 being the best is based on not very much, to say the least

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Ed August 5, 2008 at 2:41 pm

The M1 using German technology? About the only major part using German technology would be the rheinmetall gun on it. The turbine is US made, the Armor was a joint UK/US venture. The electronics and sensor package is US. The Challengers and the Merkavas are on par with the M1. The Leo 2 is not a bad tank, but it doesn’t beat the M1.

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Will August 5, 2008 at 2:49 pm

M1s are not good vehicles for counter-insurgency – they consume fuel faster than tanks with ordinary diesel engines, they’re too heavy for many bridges & they need gas turbine mechanics to maintain them. Iraq is not threatened by any of its neighbors. This sale is about politics and/or profit, not military necessity.

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torch August 5, 2008 at 3:09 pm

God help us, if they start wanting aircraft and we have to teach more Arabs how to fly. A very scary proposition at any cost. Not exactly the keenest group of people for understanding electronics and technology. :)

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ak August 5, 2008 at 3:22 pm

Well if they want the best tank they should get the Merkava mk 4…
But really, given the US army is training them why the hell wouldn’t you go with the M1? Makes whatever maintenance program they implement far easier too.
It 140 tanks, a small elite force. Not everything has to be about counterinsurgency. Next people will be moaning it’s not the most green :P

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Topper August 5, 2008 at 3:24 pm

The best Tank in the world is the German Leopard 2 A6
greetz Topper

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jared August 5, 2008 at 3:26 pm

i am joining the marines and well. i have a bad feeling about us giving military equiptment to any other government that we just over ran. doesnt anyone else agree or think that if we give them everything we got they are just goin to turn around and use it against us

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M1 August 5, 2008 at 5:33 pm

I found this on wikipedia about how we had to destroy an M1 because of a lucky round that penetrated tank through the engine soemthing… just read.
During an early attack on Baghdad, one M1A1 was disabled by a recoilless rifle round that had penetrated the rear engine housing, and punctured a hole in the right rear fuel cell, causing fuel to leak onto the hot turbine engine. After repeated attempts to extinguish the fire, the decision was made to destroy or remove any sensitive equipment. Oil and .50 caliber rounds were scattered in the interior, the ammunition doors were opened and several thermite grenades ignited inside. Another M1 then fired a HEAT round in order to ensure the destruction of the disabled tank. The tank was completely disabled but still intact. Later, an AGM-65 Maverick and two AGM-114 Hellfire missiles were fired into the tank to finish its destruction. Remarkably, the tank still appeared to be intact from the exterior.[30]
For the picture, here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DM-SD-04-07075.jpg

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MachineMk2 August 5, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Ugh.
“Best tank in the world.”
Well, if we’re just going off the tank with the most combat experience, it’s the M1. The M1 and the Leopard 2 are extremely similar tanks, and both progeny of the MBT-70 project. The Challenger 2 is also equivalent.
When it comes to which is the best, it’s not going to be the equipment, it’s going to be the crew.

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randymar75 August 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm

I guess the people in the EU don’t get the military channel! First, The Challenger is a great tank. However was not produced in any real numbers to be the best tank. This was due to it’s complex engineering. Yes this tank has seen action, but not on the scale the Abrams has. Would this make for ideal sale?
Second, the The Leo 2 is again, a great tank. Maybe easier than there panther and tiger older brothers to maintain but, it suffers from production complexity. In case anyone here forgot, same thing happened in WWII. This tank has also never been tested under fire, so could it ever be considered?
Third, The Merkava, this tank has only been in production in its current variant for 5 years, with only 220 examples built as of 2008. With the kinds of damage they took in 2006 with 18 damaged and only 8 of those being returned to active service lends me to think something here is a miss. This was all done with ground fired rockets. Besides, I classify the Merkava as an armoured tracked scout vehicle with a big gun. (3 crew and 4 infantry.) I don’t think it is the wonder tank Isreal was hoping for to compete in the MBT arena.
This leaves the M1, Yes complex to produce, but its modular design allows it to be produced quickly.(roughly 9000 in 30 years or 300 a year.) The design also allows tier 1 and tier 2 maintenance to be done in a field enviroment for quick repair to service time. This tank has been tried under fire and faired far better statistically than any other MBT on the battlefield.(Number of tanks,Shoot fired, hits, targets destroyed, and number of enemy units engaged.) That being said it is the world’s premier MBT.
Well there are the facts. And yes I used references from more than just the military channel.
PS I didn’t forget the LaClerc

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Jeff M August 5, 2008 at 10:49 pm

If it weren’t the best tank in the world, the United States would have built something better.

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ak August 6, 2008 at 12:29 am

I was kidding about the merkava of course. No matter what tank you may think is ultimately the very best, the M1 is very good and makes sense for many reasons. Another one of which is they’ll be useless in about 5 min if the US felt the need to withhold spares for any reason in the future.

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Roy Smith August 6, 2008 at 12:46 am

The major problems with the M1 Abrams,with all of its variants(M1A1 AIM,M1A2 SEP & sub-variants thereof),the Challenger 2,also with all of its variants & sub-variants,the Leclerc,ditto with the variants & sub-variants,& lastly the Leopard 2,ditto here too with variants & sub-variants,is all these tanks are not being produced anymore.The factories to make them & assembly lines are closed down(excluding maybe the M1 factory in Egypt).The French have allowed their Leclercs to fall into disrepair.I’m not sure how many are combat ready.the Germans are selling their old Leoprard 2′s,but they are running out of spare parts to keep them running.They gave(sold rather) the Canadians their most updated Leopard 2′s,the Leopard 2A6M,but spare parts are getting scarce & pretty soon,those Leopard 2′s that Canada,the Netherlands,Norway,Denmark,Sweden,Spain,Greece,Turkey,Poland,& even Chile will not be able to be operated because of lack of spare parts & no new parts being manufactured.
The U.S. is selling the farm with the fact that we got rid of old legacy tanks(M48,M60) by scrapping & selling to foreign countries,& now we are doing the same thing with a finite number of M1 tanks available.
If I understand correctly,the Israelis lost Merkavas to Russian Kornet anti-tank missiles(that also took out M1 tanks in Iraq) operated by Hezbollah because they didn’t put the Trophy counter missile defense system to stop those anti-tank missiles.I don’t know why the Israelis didn’t use the system,but they paid dearly for not using it.Now it’s supposed to be installed on their Merkava tanks.
I have no information on the Italian Ariete Tank,but the Italians are most likely in the same boat as the American,British,French,& Germans are with their tank factories being closed down.

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Roy Smith August 6, 2008 at 12:52 am

The only two “Western” nations,or nations allied with us,building new tanks,actually putting brand new models into production,are Japan(Type 10 MBT-X/TK-X) & South Korea(K2 Black Panther).These are the only new models being produced that are not being built by Russia or China.

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Marcello August 6, 2008 at 2:18 am

Is it just me that think that selling high tech weaponry to a middle eastern country isn’t such a bright idea? Think about what happened with Iran or with mujahideens back in the 80′s.
While it’s quite improbable that today Iraq will be ever able to unify strongly enough to turn against the US as a country it still is quite a liability.
The chances that someone could manage to hijack one of those beasts are not so remote, and think about the possible damage. And this is the smallest scale problem i can think of.
And does a nation like Iraq really need a huge tank force?
Like someone else here said it looks more like a simply economic business here, with no “honest” military planning behind…
M

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Jimbo Jones August 6, 2008 at 2:52 am

“@Jimbo Jones
seems the Americans have their very own perception of history.”
I’m a Brit you douche.

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Luke August 6, 2008 at 3:43 am

“I guess the people in the EU don’t get the military channel! First, The Challenger is a great tank. However was not produced in any real numbers to be the best tank. This was due to it’s complex engineering. Yes this tank has seen action, but not on the scale the Abrams has. Would this make for ideal sale? ” -randymar75
You are nothing more than a dumb armchair expert.
Firstly, the ‘military channel’ is American and horribly biased.
Secondly, the challenger’s engineering is no less complex than the Abrams, it’s simply more up to date.
Thirdly, the Abrams has only seen combat in both Iraq wars, with huge losses. The Challengers have seen action in both Iraq wars, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Kosovo, so far only 2 challengers have been knocked out (both in Iraq, first from friendly fire from another challenger, the latter from a massive IED on Apr 6th 2007. (23:46hrs, I was there)

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campbell August 6, 2008 at 4:42 am

Bloody bloomin idiots.
here we have over two dozen entries arguing about the merits of various TANKS. My god. No wonder Iraq is such a FUBAR. tanks. geezus. why aren

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Jimbo Jones August 6, 2008 at 5:02 am

waek troll campbell, very weak a 2/10 effort. By your thinking iraq would have already fallen to pieces 4 years or so ago when infact the opposite is true. I do however fully expect you to be spouting this trash four or five years on from now, possibly even decades from now your type will still be bitchingand wishing for failure even if everything is going great. Like i say your a poor troll and what your write is wishfull defeatist thinking garbage.

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randymar75 August 6, 2008 at 6:42 am

I guess the people in the EU don’t get the military channel! First, The Challenger is a great tank. However was not produced in any real numbers to be the best tank. This was due to it’s complex engineering. Yes this tank has seen action, but not on the scale the Abrams has. Would this make for ideal sale? ” -randymar75
You are nothing more than a dumb armchair expert.
Firstly, the ‘military channel’ is American and horribly biased.
Secondly, the challenger’s engineering is no less complex than the Abrams, it’s simply more up to date.
Thirdly, the Abrams has only seen combat in both Iraq wars, with huge losses. The Challengers have seen action in both Iraq wars, Afghanistan, Bosnia and Kosovo, so far only 2 challengers have been knocked out (both in Iraq, first from friendly fire from another challenger, the latter from a massive IED on Apr 6th 2007. (23:46hrs, I was there)
First I am a EOD Marine that has been attached to tanks many times, worked with tankers from all over the world and seen my fair share of action ( Somolia, bosnia, and a few NEO’s) in the 8 yrs I served. Obviously you didn’t finish reading my comments to know that I didn’t only use the Military channel. I guess your not quick on the up take to know sarcasim when you hear it.
So Luke what branch were you in? What is the production rate of a Challenger? Before you fire off your mouth bloke better make sure your not doing battle with the Marines, you might have a malfunction.

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Christian August 6, 2008 at 7:58 am

Y in da hell would IRAQ want to spend there money like that and there isn’t anyone over there that can operate such high-tech machinery…LOL

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john August 6, 2008 at 9:19 am

indentured servitude?

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Bob August 6, 2008 at 10:07 am

I don’t want Iraq to have “the best tank in the world.” In my book, they’re NOT allies.

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Milgeek August 6, 2008 at 10:35 am

I’m a bit tired after scolling down the endless ‘my tank is bigger than your tank’ pissing competition, so I will keep this short ;)
As a Brit I would LOVE to say – hell, yeah – the Challenger is the best tank in the world, but the real fact is that – technically – there isn’t actually a gnats hair between the Abrams, Leopard and the Challenger. They are all equally wonderful…
The thing that makes any of them great is:
1. Training
2. Chobham
I think we should all count ourselves lucky that ALL our guys (American, British and German) are fantastically well trained…
One of my favourite quotes that I think says it all about what makes a good tank is from a US Army tanker after Gulf War 1, quote:
“To be honest, it was all about training – you could have put the Iraqi in M1s and us Americans in T72s and we would have still have come out on top. There was a gulf of difference between the expertise of the Iraqi tankers and the Allies.”
I am a bit miffed the US got all the orders, and that Americans don’t seem to know that the Brits actually were involved with tank battles with the Republican guards. But there you go, you can’t have everything! ;)

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Foreign.Boy August 6, 2008 at 10:56 am

@DJ Elliott -
Thanks for answering my question.
@M1 -
Thanks for the picture… however, most tanks are designed to be repaired… thus why it took so much explosives to really blow it up. Doesn’t make it he best tank.. but makes it what a tank does best
I saw this coming! lol.. everyone spatting which tank is best…. every tank developed is very good.
I don’t think the Iraqi’s asking for tanks is a really bad idea. To be honest if they decide to turn on the US, the US still holds many very powerful helicopters and warplanes. So them turning on the US with the tanks wouldn’t matter much.
The comments that the Leopard never firing a shot… remember they are used in Afghanistan now. However, they’ve never seen tank vs tank combat… The Cannon, and all the technology is the same (or close too) the Abrams (when first developed). Which in theory makes it a capable tank.
Honestly, them getting Abrams would do the US a favor. If the US doctrine of staying Iraq or Using Iraq for future wars would be very helpful. Since the US is use to seeing their own tanks, it’d be much quicker to identify a friendly Iraqi Tank than 2nd guessing a Russian tank is friendly or not. It also makes it much easier, since they are planning on leaving so much equipment behind already (selling and dropping) such as MRAPs, HUVEE’s and now tanks? All modern armies are talking ‘lighter’ for future wars… this just continues to follow this doctrine.

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Foreign.Boy August 6, 2008 at 11:02 am

I agree with Milgeek.
Just to add further… I think we also live in an age when the sword is stronger than the shield. There are more ways to crack an armored nut than ever. Many articles I’ve read seem to be leaning towards the day of the MBT will be over.

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Jimbo Jones August 6, 2008 at 11:07 am

“Y in da hell would IRAQ want to spend there money like that and there isn’t anyone over there that can operate such high-tech machinery…LOL”
And just how do you no for sure theres no-one that can operate an M1 if trained? Iraqis to stupid? or you too stupid, the only ‘LOL’ here is on you i’m afraid son

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Jack Cottone August 6, 2008 at 11:17 am

I’ve read most of the entries concerning this topic..I’ve also read the books concerning the battles of both Desert Storm & Iraqi Freedom…
I don’t see the heavy losses that the one biased story states..The Abrams tank suffered losses, but the heaviest by far were from FRIENDLY FIRE..
The M1A1 destroyed in the First Thunder Run was infact finally destroyed by US forces as stated in another previous reply…
I’ll have to stick with the Abrams tank as best for the new Iraqi Army…If one can call the new tanks easy, then the Abrams is their best choice.
The kind of warfare that the new Iraqi Army will face, they will need a tank with more anti personnel weapons on board(more machine guns)to keep Insurgents at a distance when the main gun cannot be used…All the photos I see of the Leopard 2 and the Challenger 2 and the Leclerc they only have one..Ofcourse others can be added!!!The Leopard 2 comes with a skate ring for a second MG..Keeping the enemy off your tank is an important task usually aided by the wing man(scratching your back)as it was once called..
Just using the info as reported,leaving out the BIAS that someone else stated against the American
tankers and articles, the Abrams is it..
Iraq is NOT an ALLY…Neither is Egypt nor Saudi
Arabia,yet they have the Abrams tank.. I feel they will pose a THREAT to future Mid-east discussions,just as the Washington Naval Treaty about “Battle Ships & Tonnage” did in post WWI…
This is just my bias thoughts,and yes I was once a tanker in the M60A1 in 1967,6Bn.32Armor in Ft.Knox Ky… Jack Cottone

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Jimbo Jones August 6, 2008 at 11:30 am

“Many articles I’ve read seem to be leaning towards the day of the MBT will be over.”
not to be rude my friend but you do know that since the day the tank was introduced people have been claiming the tanks days are numbered and the future holds no hope for tanks – yet look where we are now – soon in a few years we will be ‘celebrating’ the 100th aniversery of the tank…

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Jimbo Jones August 6, 2008 at 11:37 am

freefallingbomb – just a quick word: I think its patently obvious by the fact your trolling is ignored over and over in every thread that people here cannot be bothered arguing with you because your a jerk, your wasting your time to be honest, no one is impressed by you and the general concensus seems to be that your a twat. go play on 4chan or some other site ment for kids and trolls. Oh and dont bother responding to me either.

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dirk August 6, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Leopard 2 A6 and the Israeli Merkava 4 are the best tanks hands down. The nice thing about buying Abrams is that there are so many of them that getting support is not to difficult. Of course Egypt got M1 as they were part of the foreign military sales program. Saudi Arabia bought M1 as the US is its biggest protector in the middle east.
Challenger 2 is fantastic and tank wise comes in 3r equal with the Abrams.
The best tank for the Middle East is Merkava 4. The best tank world wide is Leopard 2A6.

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greg August 6, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Dirk,
To what fact are you basing your opinions on? What makes the mk4 and the leopard the best tank? Last i checked that leopard had less armor then the Abraham’s. Also last I checked its autoloader was susceptible to killing the crew if there was a penetration inside. Is there any facts behind your opinion or are you just looking at fact sheets. I do give the leopard this though, it should have less of a heat signature with the diesel then the m1 with the jet engine. Other then that I think I would rather trust my life to a M1 vs the leopard if I was to take a hit. They have taken some pretty nasty explosions and saved the crews lives. If only we could make the bradley that protected.

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sfc711 M1Abrams August 6, 2008 at 4:14 pm

As a M1 Tanker for over 15yrs, there is no way the leopard or the MK4 is better than the M1. I have been in almost every tank made since 1981 and the M1 is the top tank hands down. When rhe T72 came out it was suppose to be the best and in Desert Storm we kicked it ass. Yes the leopard has a smaller heat sig but as the other poster said it has not enough armor to protect its crew. I was in an M1 when we took a HEP round on the right side and we survived it.

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Sean August 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm

Dirk-not sure where you got your information about the Merkava and Leopard, however it sounds to me much like personal opinion.
While both are fantastic pieces of armor, neither is advanced or protected as the M1 series. These are not my opinions…..facts known by armor experts around the world and my own experiences with the 3ID.
I have read stories where Israeli and German tank crews stated they loved their own tanks, but would love to be on an Abrams even more.
“Rock of the Marne”!!!

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Sean August 6, 2008 at 4:42 pm

FREEFALLINGBOMB….
I do believe you don’t have a clue of what you speak!! Do you actually listen to the drivel that comes out of your mouth before you write it down?
Take your offensive comments elsewhere along with your backwards way of thinking…..no of it’s welcome here.
You actually a vet?
Didn’t think so!!!!
Move along now….move along…..

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Vercingetorix August 6, 2008 at 6:13 pm

Yes, there is no politics in Euro-weapons decisions. That’s why France and Germany and England and Italy and Sweden and Belgium all produce and field almost exclusively their own nationalized weapons.
But they’re all the best, huh, you moron, FFB?

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randymar75 August 6, 2008 at 6:18 pm

Freefall, You are like most people in the world, read one piece of info and claim it to be fact. There are numerous errors in the editorial, however to try to explain them to such a feable mind would be a waste of time!
Should Iraq get the Abrams? Hell no! But they will because that is what the powers that be wish. At the same time if something like Iran of 1979 occurs again, like the f-14′s, I doubt those Abrams will ever move a foot.
And to all the Germans that seem to think the Leo is such a great tank, I ask. Why aren’t they participating in the liberation of Iraq? as somone stated earlier, the Germans lack any direction or resolve to do anything other than sit around and tell everyone how good they are or what that other nation is doing wrong. Easy to play Monday morning Quaterback. This once again proves why the Abrams is superior. The crews that have the support of their government (for the most part). It’s a whole lot different when you lead from the front.

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shannonherc August 6, 2008 at 6:54 pm

why give are sell weapons to iraqi, that’s not right. we are american fort for peace and some gave all, and all gave some., our lives want peace , our emenies don’t need our weapons to turn there backs on us and use them on USA troops and our fellow american. american don’t need to do that for them. 540701

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antherion August 6, 2008 at 8:42 pm

Nice marketing job, first shatter them to pieces …then install puppets to government, and ….. sell them all you can.
Congrats.
Yankees, please stop your hypocrisy about freedom to nations, would you?
Everyone knows what your real reasons are.

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Vercingetorix August 6, 2008 at 10:15 pm

“Nice marketing job, first shatter them to pieces …then install puppets to government, and ….. sell them all you can…Yankees, please stop your hypocrisy about freedom to nations, would you?…Everyone knows what your real reasons are.”
This stuff right here – plus the trutherism of Europe and general ignorance of the world more than 30 miles from whatever beach the Euros currently sun themselves or not broadcast on BRAVO – is why Americans giggle like school girls whenever a European gets all uppity.
You guys are morons.

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Roy Smith August 6, 2008 at 11:08 pm

Why is it that nobody has addressed the issues of the fact that out of the modern western tanks,the M1,the Challenger 2,the Leclerc,the Leopard 2,the Ariete,& the Merkava,I believe only the Merkava is still being built.
I mentioned in a post here earlier that for all the upgrades of the Leopard 2,because Germany shut down their factories for not only building the Leopard 2,but also for building spare parts.All of the Leopard 2′s being bought by other nations will soon break down & unless someone starts building spare parts again for the Leopard 2,they’ll be sitting in the motor pool rusting(hear that Canada,Poland,Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,Spain,Greece,Turkey,& Chile?).
France has let their Leclercs fall into disrepair & I don’t know how many or how few they have that are combat ready.They also pissed away all of their AMX-30 tanks.
Counting the heaps of metal waiting to be rebuilt,the U.S. still only has a finite number of M1 Abrams tanks,period.Instead of holding on to them in case another armed conflict comes into being & they would have to restart the draft & resurrect deactivated division,they are willy nilly selling our small & finite number of M1 tanks to Kuwait(who is also supposed to have the Yugoslav version of the T-72 tank),Saudi Arabia,Egypt,& also Australia.Do we really need to be selling off our M1′s when we still may need them? We already got rid of our legacy M48 & M60 tanks through scrapping & selling off to foreign nations,why are we doing the same with our M1 tanks? WE HAVE “NOTHING” to replace our main battle tanks.We talk about FCS vehicles,but those are just promises WITHOUT the action to back them up.
The British Challenger faces the problem that there are only a few hundred of them built.The UK in its infinite wisdom sold off all of their Challenger 1 tanks to Jordan,& God only knows what they did with their Chieftain tanks.
God only knows the status of Leopard 1 tanks.I’m not sure about the status of the Italian Ariete.Only “allies” Japan & South Korea are building,or at least introducing new model MBT’s.
The Israelis messed up by not putting the Trophy anti-missile defense system on their Merkavas during the 2006 war.

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a August 7, 2008 at 12:11 am

the europeans were the ones who built saddams chemical weaponry, tunnels, air defense systems, palace etc, remember that b4 u criticize

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pfcem August 7, 2008 at 12:43 am

Roy Smith,
The M1 Abrams IS still being built. M1A1 kits are still being manufactured in the US & shipped to Egypt for assembly. Besides the reason why the US, UK, France & Germany are not building new MBT for themselfs is because they (due to the end of the cold war) have MORE MBTS that they think they need or willing to pay to continue to operate. And where as an Abrams, Challenger or Leopard 2 can be unpgraded to the latest & greatest standard, there is sufficient difference between the Merkava Mk4 & previous varients that building new Mk4s rather than upgrading previous varients has been determined to be the way to go.
The US did not & is not selling ANY of its Abrams to Kuwiat, Saudi Arabia or Egypt – all those tanke were/ & continue to be new-build.
The current operational US Abrams fleet is IIRC less than half the number it has in its possession so it has MORE than enough to spare.

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Jeff M August 7, 2008 at 5:38 am

A few points…
The Leopard 2 doesn’t have a reactive armor upgrade available and doesn’t have an active defense system. A gun is a gun, but the US tanks can fire uranium sabot rounds, whereas the best the Leopard seems to have are tungsten rounds. Maybe that is not part of this debate, but interesting no less.
The active defense system on the Merkava should prove very useful, but I’m thinking the “quick kill” system should be more effective, however it has not been deployed yet, so this doesn’t count.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgWywHPVzMg
Also the M1′s power plant packs a higher energy density and is quieter, not sure about reliability with it being on the ground but a turbine is less complex, fewer things that can go wrong. Heat signature is a moot point, they are both glowing masses of heat, easy to detect, and both equipped with counter-measures against heat and radar missiles. Also the gas turbine will run on pretty much anything that burns, including gasoline.
It seems like an easy wager that the US has everyone beat when it comes to electronics and field integration.

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Roy Smith August 7, 2008 at 9:45 am

Does anybody know the status of Germany’s new Rheinmetall 120mm L/55-caliber smoothbore gun? I know that it is longer than the Abrams’ gun.It seems like this is the only logical upgrade for the Abrams & Merkava Mk 4 tanks.IIRC,the Challenger 2 tank has a gun as big as the German’s new gun,but it is rifled & the company that makes tank rounds for it,including the DU rounds,has gone out of business.This is supposedly why the British are considering switching to the German smoothbore gun for their Challenger tanks.
I’m not exactly sure why the Israelis would consider their gun on the Merkava Mk 4 superior,or at least an upgrade from,the Abrams tank when both guns are the same L/44-caliber.
Would it really hurt to put a longer caliber gun on the Abrams,like the German gun?
The French,like I said before,let their Leclerc tank go to s**t & again,I don’t know how many are combat worthy today.

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ohwilleke August 7, 2008 at 1:06 pm

There is no such think as a “world’s best tank.” There are only choices in military hardware that are more or less appropriate for particular problems. You can’t know what is best, until you know how you want to use your military hardware.
In the mountainous Balkans full of old rail and road bridges that weren’t capable of supporting 70 ton tanks, narrow urban streets inaccessible to such a wide vehicle, and steep narrow mountain passes, there were real downsides to the M1. For example, its long range capabilities, speed and manueverability weren’t very useful, and it was hard to get where it was needed. This isn’t to say that it was useless but it wasn’t optimal for many missions, and the Bradley were better fitted to lots of missions that needed to be done.
Likewise, the tropical jungles of Vietnam against opponents who were mostly infantry and mechanized infantry were not great places for MBT warfare.
Much of Iraq seems to be a better fit for the M1. The country has lots of open, relatively flat, unpaved territory, and the region has been home to considerable tank warfare, e.g., the war with Iran, the invasion of Kuwait, the two U.S. invasions of Iraq, military actions within Syria and Israel, counterinsurgency actions involving Turks and Kurds, and warfare between Israel and Egypt.
Of course counterinsurgency and intra-Iraqi more conventional civil war with third party weapons should a proxy war break out, are at the top of the contingency lists right now. The M1s heavy armor is attractive in an environent where IEDs and RPGs are important threats, although one would hope that the Iraqis are buying their tanks equiped with urban warfare in mind. And, since many of Iraq’s bridges over the Tigress and Euphrates (to which all population centers cling) are younger and hence better engineered than many European bridges, one would hope that they are more capable of supporting 70 ton vehicles.
The “come back to bite us” factor is also not as serious as it was in the case of the F-14. If Iraqi tanks are used to invade Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait, I’m not going to lose much sleep over it. Jordan and Turkey are better allies. But the Iraqi Kurds are in no position to launch an outright main battle tank attack on Turkey; and a deterrent to Turkish military invasion of Iraqi Kurdistan on the Turkish-Iraqi border isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Jordan can rely on relative neutrality and having friends in powerful places to protect it, just as it doesn’t attempt to win an arms races with its neighbors Saudi Arabia and Israel militarily.
The difficulty of rapidly moving the M1 by air, due to its large size, and limited availability of Iraqi ports, also makes monitoring transfers of M1s to third party countries pretty easy to monitor. And, as far as tech transfer goes, the M1 is old enough and common enough that it is hard to believe that any secrets which can be determined by reverse engineering and private close observation of a functional model haven’t been available on the black market for decades.
Also, should the U.S. wish to make a third invasion of Iraq in the next thirty years or so (you’d think we’d learn our lesson), American air superiority ought to neutralize any threat from M1 tanks. The terrain that makes the M1 good for Iraq compared to some other areas, also makes it hard for the M1 to hide for air to ground missiles.

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Sigh August 8, 2008 at 4:36 am

Look at all these armchair generals “M1 best tank in the world?!?! i think not!!!” Stop crying you pathetic little girls. Its a badass tank and can DEFINITELY be considered as the best or one of the best. Since there is no way to tell, without doubt, which ‘the best’ tank in the world actually is the statement is perfectly justified.

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Pedro Santiago August 8, 2008 at 6:55 am

Hey all Morons, Venezuela Dictator Hugo Chavez, is getting more weapons from Russia, dont you read the newspaper or Military.com, the Fidel Castro follower is spending Billions in advanced military plane, even submarine, antiaircraft missiles, tanks, big guns, billions of dollars taken from the petroleum he is selling, including the United State, for whom he needs those weapons, for the American if they tried to invade Venezuela he said, you bunch of idiots wakeup, they are near your nose, let Iraq get what they need from us, France, Germany, Spain or Italy, it doesnt matter if our troop can return as soon as possible from those countries, remember Vietnam ignorants.

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Pedro Santiago August 8, 2008 at 6:56 am

Hey all Morons, Venezuela Dictator Hugo Chavez, is getting more weapons from Russia, dont you read the newspaper or Military.com, the Fidel Castro follower is spending Billions in advanced military plane, even submarine, antiaircraft missiles, tanks, big guns, billions of dollars taken from the petroleum he is selling, including the United State, for whom he needs those weapons, for the American if they tried to invade Venezuela he said, you bunch of idiots wakeup, they are near your nose, let Iraq get what they need from us, France, Germany, Spain or Italy, it doesnt matter if our troop can return as soon as possible from those countries, remember Vietnam ignorants.

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Pedro Santiago August 8, 2008 at 6:58 am

Hey all Morons, Venezuela Dictator Hugo Chavez, is getting more weapons from Russia, dont you read the newspaper or Military.com, the Fidel Castro follower is spending Billions in advanced military plane, even submarine, antiaircraft missiles, tanks, big guns, billions of dollars taken from the petroleum he is selling, including the United State, for whom he needs those weapons, for the American if they tried to invade Venezuela he said, you bunch of idiots wakeup, they are near your nose, let Iraq get what they need from us, France, Germany, Spain or Italy, it doesnt matter if our troop can return as soon as possible from those countries, remember Vietnam ignorants.

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Jimbo Jones August 8, 2008 at 7:41 am

i guess it must be your school’s holidays eh Pedro seeing as your Dads let you use the pc, watch out for viruses and spyware he will dock your pocket money if you wreck it!

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Papasan August 8, 2008 at 8:07 am

Ok, Ok, let the Russian or the Russian are there in the weapon market, waiting as a gator, they are selling anything a country want in weaponry, in combat a tank is a tank, remember World War II, the German Panzer against the American Patton tanks or those Russian tanks against the German mighty tanks in that front, who arrive to Berlin, who arrive first to Saigon Capital, it is the crew inside that tank that make the difference in battle. Anyway, if they cant get the American Tank, there are enought petroleum an gas to buy in the Russian market anything they want, Puttin is selling arms know, wachout, the Russian are coming back to Cuba, you know what that means to us or the Caribbean, there is Venezuela, now Ecuador is cutting military relation with us, Nicaragua return with the Sandistas, Bolivia is getting worst every day, we need to warch carefully Brazil, Argertina and Chile , they are not U.S politic oriented, meanwhile your talking about what Tank is better or why Iraq shouldnot get the Abrahams…Whao, what an actual weaponry discussion, hope dont discuss about what kind of Camels should they buy to fight Alquaeda, Syria an Iran fighters or others fighters from different near regions, hey I was in Nam with the big guns> 8 inch selfproller howitzer an the powefull 175 selfpropeller howitzer,Two an Two, they mean nothing to the Vietcong or the NVA, we also use the venerable 105 howitzer for more effective fire>short target, at last or those piece of artillery was in the hand of the North, when they won the War from the South, now we are good friends, they are sending a lot of products to our market, this is a globalizition market friends.

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Papasan August 8, 2008 at 8:08 am

Ok, Ok, let the Russian or the Russian are there in the weapon market, waiting as a gator, they are selling anything a country want in weaponry, in combat a tank is a tank, remember World War II, the German Panzer against the American Patton tanks or those Russian tanks against the German mighty tanks in that front, who arrive to Berlin, who arrive first to Saigon Capital, it is the crew inside that tank that make the difference in battle. Anyway, if they cant get the American Tank, there are enought petroleum an gas to buy in the Russian market anything they want, Puttin is selling arms know, wachout, the Russian are coming back to Cuba, you know what that means to us or the Caribbean, there is Venezuela, now Ecuador is cutting military relation with us, Nicaragua return with the Sandistas, Bolivia is getting worst every day, we need to warch carefully Brazil, Argertina and Chile , they are not U.S politic oriented, meanwhile your talking about what Tank is better or why Iraq shouldnot get the Abrahams…Whao, what an actual weaponry discussion, hope dont discuss about what kind of Camels should they buy to fight Alquaeda, Syria an Iran fighters or others fighters from different near regions, hey I was in Nam with the big guns> 8 inch selfproller howitzer an the powefull 175 selfpropeller howitzer,Two an Two, they mean nothing to the Vietcong or the NVA, we also use the venerable 105 howitzer for more effective fire>short target, at last or those piece of artillery was in the hand of the North, when they won the War from the South, now we are good friends, they are sending a lot of products to our market, this is a globalizition market friends.

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Papasan August 8, 2008 at 8:08 am

Ok, Ok, let the Russian or the Russian are there in the weapon market, waiting as a gator, they are selling anything a country want in weaponry, in combat a tank is a tank, remember World War II, the German Panzer against the American Patton tanks or those Russian tanks against the German mighty tanks in that front, who arrive to Berlin, who arrive first to Saigon Capital, it is the crew inside that tank that make the difference in battle. Anyway, if they cant get the American Tank, there are enought petroleum an gas to buy in the Russian market anything they want, Puttin is selling arms know, wachout, the Russian are coming back to Cuba, you know what that means to us or the Caribbean, there is Venezuela, now Ecuador is cutting military relation with us, Nicaragua return with the Sandistas, Bolivia is getting worst every day, we need to warch carefully Brazil, Argertina and Chile , they are not U.S politic oriented, meanwhile your talking about what Tank is better or why Iraq shouldnot get the Abrahams…Whao, what an actual weaponry discussion, hope dont discuss about what kind of Camels should they buy to fight Alquaeda, Syria an Iran fighters or others fighters from different near regions, hey I was in Nam with the big guns> 8 inch selfproller howitzer an the powefull 175 selfpropeller howitzer,Two an Two, they mean nothing to the Vietcong or the NVA, we also use the venerable 105 howitzer for more effective fire>short target, at last or those piece of artillery was in the hand of the North, when they won the War from the South, now we are good friends, they are sending a lot of products to our market, this is a globalizition market friends.

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Papasan August 8, 2008 at 8:09 am

Ok, Ok, let the Russian or the Russian are there in the weapon market, waiting as a gator, they are selling anything a country want in weaponry, in combat a tank is a tank, remember World War II, the German Panzer against the American Patton tanks or those Russian tanks against the German mighty tanks in that front, who arrive to Berlin, who arrive first to Saigon Capital, it is the crew inside that tank that make the difference in battle. Anyway, if they cant get the American Tank, there are enought petroleum an gas to buy in the Russian market anything they want, Puttin is selling arms know, wachout, the Russian are coming back to Cuba, you know what that means to us or the Caribbean, there is Venezuela, now Ecuador is cutting military relation with us, Nicaragua return with the Sandistas, Bolivia is getting worst every day, we need to warch carefully Brazil, Argertina and Chile , they are not U.S politic oriented, meanwhile your talking about what Tank is better or why Iraq shouldnot get the Abrahams…Whao, what an actual weaponry discussion, hope dont discuss about what kind of Camels should they buy to fight Alquaeda, Syria an Iran fighters or others fighters from different near regions, hey I was in Nam with the big guns> 8 inch selfproller howitzer an the powefull 175 selfpropeller howitzer,Two an Two, they mean nothing to the Vietcong or the NVA, we also use the venerable 105 howitzer for more effective fire>short target, at last or those piece of artillery was in the hand of the North, when they won the War from the South, now we are good friends, they are sending a lot of products to our market, this is a globalizition market friends.

Reply

Papasan August 8, 2008 at 8:09 am

Ok, Ok, let the Russian or the Russian are there in the weapon market, waiting as a gator, they are selling anything a country want in weaponry, in combat a tank is a tank, remember World War II, the German Panzer against the American Patton tanks or those Russian tanks against the German mighty tanks in that front, who arrive to Berlin, who arrive first to Saigon Capital, it is the crew inside that tank that make the difference in battle. Anyway, if they cant get the American Tank, there are enought petroleum an gas to buy in the Russian market anything they want, Puttin is selling arms know, wachout, the Russian are coming back to Cuba, you know what that means to us or the Caribbean, there is Venezuela, now Ecuador is cutting military relation with us, Nicaragua return with the Sandistas, Bolivia is getting worst every day, we need to warch carefully Brazil, Argertina and Chile , they are not U.S politic oriented, meanwhile your talking about what Tank is better or why Iraq shouldnot get the Abrahams…Whao, what an actual weaponry discussion, hope dont discuss about what kind of Camels should they buy to fight Alquaeda, Syria an Iran fighters or others fighters from different near regions, hey I was in Nam with the big guns> 8 inch selfproller howitzer an the powefull 175 selfpropeller howitzer,Two an Two, they mean nothing to the Vietcong or the NVA, we also use the venerable 105 howitzer for more effective fire>short target, at last or those piece of artillery was in the hand of the North, when they won the War from the South, now we are good friends, they are sending a lot of products to our market, this is a globalizition market friends.

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T.E.C. August 11, 2008 at 4:41 am

Well, this isn’t the FIRST TIME WE SOLD WEAPONS TO IRAQ. We did so back in the 80′s when they were at war with Iran. But then, we were selling weapons to Iran via Israle. Hense, the Iran Contra Scandle and LtC Ollie North, USMC.
In fact, a lot of countries were selling weapons to Iraq back then. If you go to Ft. Hood and look at the armor displays there you will see some of them captured during Desert Storm 1.
We also gave them WMD’s in the way of Chemical Weapons, which they used. I’m worried about them having the M1′s and the radios. Seems that a lot of weapons we gave them have gone missing. Of course, these boys will sell anything to the highest bidder. So the fact that the radios that can’t be “monitored” will find themselves on the black market.
Now, if a half assed intel type knows that these are being sold to these clowns, what makes you think offers to buy them woun’t be made? I’m sure such countries as, oh, say China, Russia, North Korea wouldn’t be above buying them. You know, take them apart and see what makes them tick. And how to exploit their weaknesses.
I know we would.

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Dover Pro August 13, 2008 at 10:32 am

We should send those M1A2s to Georgia.
Then we’ll really find out if it is the best tank in the world.

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Veteran Soldier December 23, 2008 at 2:48 am

Please do not give any of our technology to this country, this will be K-yyoosss, have we not learned from 9/11?????and all of our fallen soldiers that sacraficed there life so we can have our freedom. If this trading should happen, we might as well piss on the graves that shed there blood for our country and hand these rag heads the key to every front door in America. We protect America 1st.
If they want technology have them build there own.
Sincerely,
SGT Rock

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George January 1, 2009 at 2:44 am

What are you people talking about the Leo 2 isn’t as well protected as the Abrams? They both have Chobham armor.
Difference is, Leo2a6 has a longer gun and better fuel efficiency.
And to the guy who said they aren’t making any of these tanks anymore, what are you talking about? Greece just got an order of brand new Leo 2a6′s, and there are more on the way.
Here in the US, I’m sure if Abrams production has stopped, it could easily be started again if we ever need more tanks. Duh. lol

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Cadet Rushing March 30, 2009 at 12:24 pm

Well all you guys say that the Leopard II is the best tank in the world, but thats all just talk. The Abrams has proven itself time and time again. When the Leopard II has actually seen some real action we’ll see how your little “fuel efficient” car will stand up to real fighting.

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Blank April 5, 2009 at 10:34 am

Ofcourse you think its the worlds best tank and then use the argument of it having been proved over and over, you’re the most aggressive and warmongering country currently on the political map =)
I just love to see this arrogance that’s so clich

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Wong April 13, 2009 at 2:29 am

Even as the U.S. threatened to attack Iraq, many people outside the U.S. already realised that asymetrical warfare offered the only real response.
Say the M1A(whatever model) is the best tank in history. It’s really what happens AFTER they roll in that really matters.
They would be protecting the fuel trucks and other supply vehicles. And what would the fuel trucks and supply vehicles be doing ? They would be moving supplies to the bases from which the M1s would be protecting the fuel trucks and supply vehicles that would be moving ……

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Patrick June 6, 2009 at 11:41 pm

The Leopard 2 would’ve been a better choice on technical performance measures, but let’s be realistic – Iraq is buying the M1 for political reasons. If the M1 is the world’s best tank then why is it’s gun from the Leopard 2?

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Sgt Silver June 8, 2009 at 9:02 pm

Isn’t it really just a matter of opinon on what the best tank in the world is? Is there really such a thing? I’m an M1-A1 Tanker myself, and really a tank is just a tool to cause mass devastation a chaos on the battle field. The only thing that really matters is the crew that knows how to utilize the equipment to it’s abilities.

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matai July 18, 2009 at 10:48 pm

we should give them all our best weapons so they can protect their country for good.we can also give them some of our nukes, and we can just sit back and watch our boy intimitate other countries.

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jerry January 9, 2010 at 12:48 am

sorry the losses were gulf 2 not gulf 1

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tankerj10 May 12, 2010 at 1:33 am

i really don't want to face my own tanks in battle as a former abrams crewman and long time driver this will realy piss me off as well and they (the government officials) are realy stuppid to sell our best armor to a country we are paying in blood to rebuild

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