Comments on: Why Not?

By: Emastro

Emastro — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:17:32 +0000

I used to have a model 19 (bluesteel 66) good gun, great trigger– but wouldn’t carry it in combat. I also have a Coly 1917 in .45 ACP– a lot of fun– but jams more than it should.
I agree with most of the above posts– but didn’t see two points:
It is VERY time consuming to clean a revolver. I do it while watching ESPN and drinking a cold beverage– I imagine GI’s would cut corners– this could lead to the cylinder binding.
The trigger/revolver mechanism is rather delicate– its hand fitted and has to be adjusted by a competent gunsmith. Compare that with the Glock, Colt, Walther systems which are very simple. Do Glock’s need any maintenance other than a quick cleaning?
Get your revolver and auto and do the WWI test — drop them both in a puddle of mud, pick them up, and see which is ready to fire first. No way the revolver’s cylinder is cleaned up adequately before the auto is.
No way that ALL the great powers replaced their pistols with autos without there being major reasons to do so. I guess the UK was the last to adopt a pistol –Enfield .38 to replace the Wembley. I suspect if there had been any good British made autos they would have been adopted. Its an OK pistol (the round is inadequate)- but really its the exception proving the rule– the Hi-Power was the standard by the time the war was out.

By: SW1911

SW1911 — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:55:12 +0000

Someone already brought this up, but for “Operators” and soldiers, the choice is clear. A automatic handgun wins hands down because it’s modern. And being modern, it can fire all the modern cartridges, be lighter, be smaller, be way way way more ergonomic. Why, pray tell, do you need .357 power as a backup weapon? Shoot 10mm full house rounds if you want that. Any shooter worth his salt will tell you that your round is only as good as you can shoot it.
If the wheel gun is such an amazing fighting piece why do the SEALs use P226s? in 9mm no less? Because the bad guy doesn’t care what caliber you shot him with if he’s bleeding from the head. Why do other special forces units continue to use the 1911? Probably because it’s the best fighting pistol ever made.
This whole post is nonsense. Try lugging around the .357, having it stashed somewhere in your kit, actually pulling out and getting off an aimed shot fast enough. Complete nonsense. The only things a wheelgun can be better for are possibly city cops and as a nightstand gun. But again, these guns fire high caliber rounds (liability), even though you can use similarly cased rounds that are less powerful. They’re not ergonomic in any sense of the word.
They got replaced because THEY AREN’T PRACTICAL. When you select a weapon, you pick the best that fits across all spectrums. Sure, the wheel gun might do 1 or 2 things better than an auto but it’s nothing more than a club in other situations. This is coming from someone who owns a GP101 .357 and thinks it’s one of the finest guns ever produced.
If you think auto’s are unreliable please throw out the Saturday night special and go buy a fine 1911. One that is designed for reliability. It will go bang every time, guaranteed, and there is a VERY good reason why so many people in harms way trust their lives to it.
And not a wheelgun.

By: Jeff Dulin

Jeff Dulin — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:48:39 +0000

You gotta be kidding! When the bad guys start carrying 1891 Moslin’s, Mausers and Krag’s,… I’ll consider a wheel-gun,… but not for long! F-o-r-g-e-t IT! I’m no lover of the 9 x 19 round but AT LOT OF THOSE IS BETTER THAN A FEW OF THESE IN TODAYS ENVIRONMENT!
I still like the .45 ACP! Not so much because of them number of rounds but the reliability of the 1911 design and the repidity of the reload. More modern similar designs have even higher mafazine capacity and that’s even better! Unfortunately, Political Correctness (Females in the Military) & Logistics (9mm = Fits many weapons vs .45 = US .45 only) killed it,.. but it’s coming back,.. I Hope!
I DID CARRY a S & W .38 4″ revolver while I flew with the 1st ID in Viet Nam (68–69). It was a very nice blued civilian type pistol and the nicest gun the Army ever gave me!! It was a status symbol,… not a weapon for combat. I flew with it under my Chicken Plate, but I also had a THUMPER (M-79) & my ’60 if we went down. The pistol was for last efforts only!
NO Thanks. I think Mr. Browning and his gun was and still is the way to go!
JD

By: Joel

Joel — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:11:15 +0000

“Yes, well, follow proper driving procedures and you’ll never have a crash. Follow proper ATC procedures and you’ll never cause a midair. Follow the blueprint and you’ll never produce a component that’s the wrong spec. But people make mistakes. And a policy that assumes 100% competence by everyone at all times is an extremely stupid policy. Fail-safe, not fail-deadly.“
Bill, carrying without a loaded chamber is exactly the same as driving without shifting out of first gear. Without the ability to draw and fire, you DO NOT HAVE A WEAPON. You are an unarmed person with a paperweight.

By: Joel

Joel — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:07:25 +0000

God forbid you should condone an entirely tactically sound practice that was SOP for the military for 80 years.

By: ajay

ajay — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:55:39 +0000

joel: “If you can’t carry an automatic with a round in the chamber safely, you should not be a cop or ever carry a loaded weapon. Follow proper safety procedures and you will never have an accidental discharge.“
Yes, well, follow proper driving procedures and you’ll never have a crash. Follow proper ATC procedures and you’ll never cause a midair. Follow the blueprint and you’ll never produce a component that’s the wrong spec. But people make mistakes. And a policy that assumes 100% competence by everyone at all times is an extremely stupid policy. Fail-safe, not fail-deadly.

By: coolhand77

coolhand77 — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:12:58 +0000

Stephen: It was I that stated the parts count, Not WTS
Both schools of thought, one in the chamber, one not in the chamber are valid for various reasons. In Vietnam a pilot was saved because he left two chambers of his issue .38 empty. He shot the guy carrying the loaded AK and while he was turning on the other VC, the VC tried to use the 38 to shoot him. Click, click, huh? Of course the pilot had a backup .22 in his flight suit, and he was using the opportunity provided by an armed US helicopter, but still, the two guys escorting him were out of commission and he escaped capture.
Ahem. That being said, the odds of that actually working, are slim. You are better off with a round in the chamber IN MOST CASES and focusing on RETENTION, not dumb luck and tricks.

By: Joel

Joel — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:37:17 +0000

If you can’t carry an automatic with a round in the chamber safely, you should not be a cop or ever carry a loaded weapon. Follow proper safety procedures and you will never have an accidental discharge.
The fact is that an auto without one in the chamber is essentially unloaded and unable to be put into action in the time it would take to defend youself against any assailant. You literally might as well leave it in your car because you are better off running for cover than remaining exposed as you try to chamber a round.
I don’t even like double action autos, I carry a 1911. Still, a 2x auto with a round in the chamber (like a glock) is no more dangerous than a double action revolver.

By: ajay

ajay — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:30:48 +0000

OrdC — good point; IIRC about 20% of police officers shot dead in the US are killed with their own weapons. (In the hands of someone else, that is; not counting accidents or suicides here.) Add to that the number who accidentally shoot themselves or someone else due to a negligent discharge — which would also be reduced by carrying weapons made safe rather than made ready.
And, I’d argue, it would probably save civilian lives in another way — by forcing police officers to think for a second before opening fire.

By: OrdC

OrdC — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 10:28:13 +0000

Reply to WJS. Actually, a police officer NOT having a round in the chamber of his automatic has proven to save lives — namely his own — on a number of occasions. If a bad guy overpowers an officer & grabs the officer’s own automtic out of his holster, the officer knows his chamber is empty, while the bad guy does not. This gives the officer a major advantage in deciding how to respond. If the bad guy tries to shoot the officer, all that happens is click, click, click, which gives the officer a few precious seconds to attack or to grab his backup, typically a small .38SPL revolver, before the bad guy thinks to rack a round into the chamber. It happens. Ask the next cop you see.