Colin has a great commentary from ousted Air Force secretary Mike Wynne over at DoD Buzz on how the West should respond to Russia’s invasion of Georgia.
Here’s an excerpt:
The Russian incursion in Georgia raises fundamental questions about Western policy responses and the tools available to support Western policy. Russian actions can not be a surprise to the West; The Georgian People spoke out at least two weeks prior, and it takes time to move troops into and out of the tunnel separating Ossetia and Georgia. Also; where was the verification from the media? Where were the satellite images of the destruction of the town in Ossetia that has been heavily propagandized to support the two pronged invasion? All this makes one wonder about the reality of the event. The ability of the Georgians to see and broadcast the event was blinded by the Russian shootdown of the Georgian UAV weeks earlier.
In hindsight, the Russians sent many signals, yet those signals seemingly were ignored or set aside. What is real is the recognition of the two breakaway provinces,and de-facto occupation of the port city.
Russian actions challenge the West to revisit its ability to defend the states bordering Russia, including the new states of NATO, against Russian military petro-power. Beyond Georgia or Europe, there is the question of the credibility of Western responses to states like Russia that take into their own hands the fate designing borders.
After all, the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein led to a unified Western response to restore the territorial integrity of Kuwait. But to do this required a 6-month military buildup before a response could be generated.
Can we not do better now in providing appropriate military tools for Western decision-makers? We need tools or force packages which let states like Russia know that their actions will not go unobserved or unmitigated. We need flexible tools for ambiguous situations so that Western decision-makers can make NATO a serious enterprise.
How might have we responded and what can we do now? We could have flown Global Hawks or U2s on the Russian-Georgian border to signal our watchfulness to the Russians. We could have escorted these assets with the F-22s, which fly at high enough altitude to operate as a defense of unmanned assets, or can operate to defend key assets in Georgia. If the Russians determined to invade, we could have strengthened air defenses of key Georgian positions, provided fighter re-enforcements, and placed special forces or Marines on the ground in the national capital. We need to strengthen our capability to shape flexible force packages which can generate firebreak messages rapidly and effectively. And Europe, under the leadership of President Sarkozy, could shape their military capabilities to inject similar force structure capabilities to shape choices and limit Russian options.
With regard to the new states, I have written elsewhere about the need to shape cyberwarriors to defend against Russian attacks, and we need to enhance their ability to provide for air and tank defenses through providing aid to the new states in Europe. When considering Ukraine, we need to discuss with their leadership how they would like to enhance their defenses against external threats. In the 1980s, West Europeans discussed the need to enhance the tools for defensive defense. Such tools are stronger now, ranging from cyber to ground and air defenses. Europe, as well as American industry, has appropriate technologies at hand to assist endangered states to provide firebreak defenses against a Russia which thinks its petrol interests will block the will of the West to respond.
Read the rest of Wynne’s commentary HERE.
– Christian
{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }
Technologically, Russia is not a significant problem. We could place enough equipment in Russian neighbor-states to discourage them from military adventurism. The question is entirely political.
Do we have the political will to stare down Russia over a bunch of rinky dink Eastern European nations? Probably not. Europe certainly doesn’t. The US is war-weary and too busy with other areas of the globe to do much else than some half-hearted diplomatic measures.
The truth is, no one really cares about those nations. Europe certainly doesn’t. Eastern Europe is the Mexico of the EU. The US cares, in that “spreading democracy” sort of way. But caring and placing American lives at risk are two different things.
David your friends probbly dont call you when they need help do they
aid your allies
oh yea and im tired of having to send shit loads of money to 3rd world shit holes cause state and the MSM think its our fault cause we didnt go in and save them then blame us if we do go in and save them all the while being called empiriealist even though the 90% of the world would be a better place if we realy ruled it
Did you see the news today? Finally Russia has revealed its response for the US placing warships in the Black Sea.
They said that they would respond, and in a masterful stroke of underhanded political genious, Russia defiantly did something completely unexpected.
Yup, it’s true, Russia is banning South Park…
But, how will America respond to this devious move? Maybe they will rename Russian food, “Freedom Caviar” or better yet ban all Russian stand up comedy.
Oh, wait a minute, if they did that, we would no longer hear any of Putin’s press releases…
Russia watched the bush administrations response to hurricane Katrina and knew America couldn’t possibly do anything in the time available even if they wanted to , America can’t even help people in their own country a couple of hour down the road so how could they get military and supplies thousands of miles . don’t blame Gates blame Bush.
Russia also has a right to draw their own red line , and they have .
Actually I’m the first person someone calls when they need help. The point is that what an individual should do and what a nation should do are two entirely different things. Personal morality doesn’t always correspond with political morality. If it did, the world would have died in a nuclear inferno years ago. No single nation can be responsible for the security of the entire world. this was a big factor in the demise of both the Roman and Soviet empires. We in the US have to choose between being a beacon of prosperity and freedom in the world or destroying ourselves and relegating our nation to the quality and status of a third world nation due to spending more resources than we have.
The USA should not intervene in Eurasia! Russia’s response:
Russia says to send nuclear warship to Caribbean
“Russia said on Monday it would send a heavily-armed nuclear-powered cruiser to the Caribbean for a joint naval exercise with Venezuela, its first major maneuvers on the United States’ doorstep since the Cold War.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080908/ts_nm/russia_venezuela_navy_dc
Peter the Great to Venezuela
http://redbannernorthernfleet.blogspot.com/2008/09/peter-great-to-venezuela.html
Dorian i have to challenge you on who invaded first here some readin
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
is good
but i seriously doubt the seriousness or sanity of anyone who would believe the KGB. But maybe im being harsh when have communist ever lied to us?
“is good
but i seriously doubt the seriousness or sanity of anyone who would believe the KGB. But maybe im being harsh when have communist ever lied to us?”
It’s rubbish. There’s not a shred of evidence to support that nonsense unless you consider self-serving Georgian propaganda evidence in and of itself. The OSCE, hardly a friend to Russia, has already made the determination – clearly backed up by practically every other independent report (media and otherwise) on the topic there is, that Georgia started it. US officials have said the same thing. The tie-chomping mouse-that-roared provoked a snake who was just waiting for an excuse. They got what was coming to them.
Replay Cold War 1?
Now sign pact with Georgia for anti missile defenses?
Have US envoy to country
Set up Trade treaties.
Tap oil for US?
Revive Operation Chrome Dome?
Build up Navy to 700 ships?
Deploy Units to Naples Italy &
Greece as Fwd bases?
Have US units in Croatia?
See 1998 movie 007 The World is Not Enough.
Have Carrier group in E Med Sea?
OK use of Israeli bases for US fighter units?
Expand Intelligence.
Expand Counter Cyberhacking.
More can be done.
I couldnt even contact the nation by email from its Tourisim or Embassey website.
FYI.
Dorian, you obviously have no clue about the apabilities of U.S fighters. Why do you think we lost no B-52′s in Iraq due to SAMS? It’s because they were escorted by fighters which have SAM jammers. I would be shocked if the F-22 did not have a similiar capability. And since the U-2′s would be flying over Georgia and Ossetia, they would not be violating Russian airspace. Or do you consider those two countries to be part of Russia?
“Dorian, you obviously have no clue about the apabilities of U.S fighters. Why do you think we lost no B-52′s in Iraq due to SAMS? It’s because they were escorted by fighters which have SAM jammers.”
On the contrary, you have no clue about Iraq or how Russia’s ‘double-digit SAMs’ compare. Iraq had a laughably antiquated air defense system that was as useless as it was completely immobile. It was easily jammed (by EA-6B Prowlers) and destroyed. And that was in 1991. It was an even bigger joke in 2003.
“I would be shocked if the F-22 did not have a similiar capability.”
Well you should be shocked, since the F-22 is not a dedicated electronic warfare aircraft. That burden falls on the EA-6B and new E/A-18G, and the EF-111 before hand. Not that the F-22 is particularly relevant to what I was saying in the first place.
“And since the U-2′s would be flying over Georgia and Ossetia, they would not be violating Russian airspace.”
I suggest you read the article again. What do you think the U2 is there for? To take pictures of Russian troop movements. What, you think it can take pictures of Russian troop movements from over Georgia or South Ossetia? Never mind what a ridiculous, enormous provocation it is – out of all proportion to the (virtually nonexistent) US interests in the region – to commit US war and recon planes to a tinpot attempt to crush some separatist regions, which is what is essentially being advocated. The Georgians were appropriately crushed, quite frankly.
Dorian, keep swallowing the Russian propaganda, it provides us readers with a great deal of entertainment! I guess if your actually in Russia though (and no a soviet fanboy) your, how shall we say it, obliged to parrot the official party line as we all know what happens to those who don’t… lol
This was a so so article. Mr. Wynne does bring up an interesting point though regarding the lack of satellite photographs of Tshkinvali following the fighting. News coverage of the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah contained ample satellite photos of battle damage. One would think the Russian government would have rushed satellite photos showing damage in Tshkinvali to the media with great haste. The fact they did not does make one wonder if they exaggerated the damage that did happen.
Regarding Mr. Wynne’s comments on sending in some of our reconnaissance assests, he does seem to show a little naivete. Sending U-2′s or Global Hawks to fly over Georgia would probably not have ruffled the Ruski’s feathers all that much, and it would have diverted them from flying over Afghanistan and Iraq where they are greatly needed. We most likely had satellites flying over snapping sufficient pictures anyway, and the Russians were probably aware of their presence.
Regarding his proposal of sending technology to our allies bordering the Russian empire, one must use caution. There is still much corruption in those nations and we would have to be careful what we send. There would always be the possability of the tech finding its way into Russian hands. This should not stop us though from sending older yet still relevant defense systems to nations such as Ukraine and Georgia.
As for scolding Russia for there obvious over-reaction duriing the conflict, the U.S. should push for them to be removed from the G-8. (Which they never should have been a member of in the first place). Lastly, regarding Russia’s suspicion of our humanitarian aid to Georgia, the Bush Administration should also make it clear to Putin/Medvedev that if we are going to send miliary aid to our allies we are strong enough to do it in plain site of them – and then send them military aid with media cameras rolling. The Russians are a tough people, and tough talk is needed here.
The opinion presented in the article is so well-informed one can but wonder why the rest of the world thinks of America as a bunch of loud illiterate hicks.
You should carefully read Dorians comment, he’s absolutely right. The war was triggered by a Georgian rocket artillery attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. That is a well-known fact not even the Georgians challenge. Russia claims that 5 Russian peacekeepers were killed during that attack, which makes the matter of guilt at least ambigous and very disputable.
Georgia was encouraged by all the bullshit spenwn by the US regime to try a military solution. Obviously, they never prepared for a possible Russian answer, nor did they take measures to prevent giving the Russians a casus belli.
The claim that Russia prepared the invasion in advance is about as dumb as it gets. Russia had considerable forces in the conflict-ridden region before. Additionaly, they airlifted more heavy equipment into the theater, there would’ve been no need for that if they had been prepared.
The aftermath is even more interesting: The US are now the laughing stock of international politics. Lot’s of big talk, but obviously not capable or willing to lift a finger for their good Iraq-invading buddy.
Compare this to the European reaction. The EU has archived tangible goals, while the US have only further advanced the end of their empire.
Mike Wynne talks like a North Korean mole. It requires a very special state of mind to seriously advocate to bring the US to the brink of open war with Russia over a tiny disputed border region at the end of the world.
Does Georgia really need anyones help other than a gentle dose of diplomacy ?
It sure as hell doesn’t need the type of help that the US provided Iraqs Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. Or the CIA provided Chile (Sept 11 no less) in overthrowing Allende. Or supporting any other tin-pot 70′s/80′s despot (Noriega, Marcos, Argentinas Junta). How about deposing Mosaddeq in Iraq and propping up the Shah thereby driving the country to fundamentalism.
So given the US track record for meddling I’d say a cautious approach would be the most prudent for the all concerned.
Lets face it – some parts of the world are basket-cases. Get your own house in order before fiddling with anyone elses.
I wonder what would US do if Russian trained Cuban forces would invade Puerto Rico. Or rather I do not wonder at all. I know.
Russia has changed over the years and in a good way. It’s foreign policy is not that different from the US.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!…..HAA
So funny
heres the difference and the thing that realy smashes dorian and his soviet buddies what were cossaks and georgian sepperatist/terrorist along with some from Chechneya and other russian dominated regions doing helping the russians? and why have they russians been systematicly cleansing the area of georgians?
oh and as far as georgia bombarding a city with arty….russia has never done the same or worse?
James, its not really worth bothering with the likes of Dorian and his other braniwashed, propaganda believing suckers. Just enjoy rediculing them instead. Its as if the Soviet, sorry Russian goverment employs these fanboys to spread disinformation and propaganda….
“James, its not really worth bothering with the likes of Dorian and his other braniwashed, propaganda believing suckers. Just enjoy rediculing them instead. Its as if the Soviet, sorry Russian goverment employs these fanboys to spread disinformation and propaganda….”
I see a lot of idiotic, childish personal attacks coming from you, and not any facts. Keep chirping, little bird.
“As for scolding Russia for there obvious over-reaction duriing the conflict, the U.S. should push for them to be removed from the G-8.”
Can’t be done. To do that would require unanimity- including Russia’s. And besides, removing Russia from a fora to discuss problems is hardly going to result in anything good. The fact of the matter is this – Georgia is the ass end of the world, and that *anyone* cares that Georgia got soundly thrashed because it thought it could humiliate Russia is simply amazing.
Another point re: transferring technology to supposed US allies on Russia’s periphery. The obvious Russian response: transferring their technology to powers hostile to US interests in the Middle East. Yes, I’m talking Iran and Syria. Actions have consequences.
“HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!…..HAA
So funny”
It is? Explain to me again, how exactly is the case of South Ossetia different from Kosovo? Hint: it ain’t.
“heres the difference and the thing that realy smashes dorian and his soviet buddies what were cossaks and georgian sepperatist/terrorist along with some from Chechneya and other russian dominated regions doing helping the russians?”
What are you even talking about? How is that “the difference”? Cossacks are Russian. “Georgian separatist/ terrorists”? Are you talking about the ethnically distinct population of South Ossetia- you know – who Georgia was trying to bring back into the fold? How exactly are they terrorists, again? Chechens? You mean their Vostok special forces unit? How does having Chechen troops with them change anything? You know Chechnya is part of the Russian Federation?
“and why have they russians been systematicly cleansing the area of georgians?”
You mean like the Kosovo Albanians systematically cleansed Kosovo of the Serb minority? It’s called ethnic hatred.
“oh and as far as georgia bombarding a city with arty….russia has never done the same or worse?”
So this allows Georgia to do it … why?
Georgia – Russia’s Grenada. Did they find an Israeli construction battalion? or was it an American one. Im a bit confused.
Hmm… Russia is helping Iran build the facilities to make nukes. Russia is having joint exercises with Venezuela.
Chavez, Ahmadinejad and Putin are like three peas in a pod. It is to bad for Russia. They seemed to be on the right track, but now with the Putin Regime, they seem to be sliding back into the Soviet bear.
Dorian, the F-22 has built-in EW capability. All modern fighters do. Yes, it’s primary function is air-superiority, but it was also built with the capability to defeat any SAMS that may have been launched its way. Of course the 22′s EW capabilities aren’t well known, but that’s because thier secret. I’m willing to bet that you know jack shit about the F-22 compared to the former Secretary of the Air Force, and if he says that the 22 can guard aircraft against SAMs, then the 22 can guard aircraft against sams. Or do you profess to know more about the 22′s capabilities than Mr. Wynne?
And I ask you again: Do you consider South Ossetia to be Russian territory? U-2′s flying over Ossetian airspace would not violate Russian airspace, and the fact that you contend otherwise seems to show your Russian bias.
Let’s see.
We have active wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Now we are talking about taking on not only Iran but Russia.
In the meantime, both the Federal government and the domestic balance of payments are running massive deficits; while the domestic banking system is being bailed out as we now talk.
Exactly how are we going to pay for all this?
Good point Duncan,
I’m thinking Putin Chia Pets and Bobblehead dolls. Of course they will be made in China, so as long as we don’t cheese off China, we will be ok.
“Another point re: transferring technology to supposed US allies on Russia’s periphery. The obvious Russian response: transferring their technology to powers hostile to US interests in the Middle East. Yes, I’m talking Iran and Syria. Actions have consequences.
Posted by: Dorian at September 9, 2008 08:05 AM”
Which rock have you been living under, the Russians have already been playing that game of giving thier technolgy to any asshat regime with the cash as well as if i remember corectly GPS jammers to Saddams military before the war started, of course the jammers got bombed though… lol
Posted by: Jimbo Jones at September 9, 2008 01:00 PM
…if i remember corectly GPS jammers to Saddams military before the war started, of course the jammers got bombed though… lol
So?
GPS jammers got bommbed – big deal. Whole NATO coalition is stuck cleaning up the mess (including shipping body-bags home) for the trigger happy nut-wit administration with obsession for WMDs.
Do we need to shove the crap for another trigger happy lunatic in Georgia now?
Really, are we getting paid for this or we just like doing it?
“Dorian, the F-22 has built-in EW capability. All modern fighters do.”
The F-22 has stealth to avoid SAMs. Normal fighters minor in-built jammers are *not* proof against SAMs, they merely improve chances of survival, which are generally poor. The F-22 certainly can’t use whatever ECM equipment it has for self defence to defend a U-2 from getting an S-300 missile. That’s just a fact, sorry.
“Yes, it’s primary function is air-superiority, but it was also built with the capability to defeat any SAMS that may have been launched its way.”
Which helps the U-2 … how? Again – it doesn’t.
“Of course the 22′s EW capabilities aren’t well known, but that’s because thier secret. I’m willing to bet that you know jack shit about the F-22 compared to the former Secretary of the Air Force, and if he says that the 22 can guard aircraft against SAMs, then the 22 can guard aircraft against sams.”
Except he didn’t actually say that- because he’s not a complete idiot. Why don’t you learn how to read English before you tell me what I know jack shit about?
“And I ask you again: Do you consider South Ossetia to be Russian territory? U-2′s flying over Ossetian airspace would not violate Russian airspace, and the fact that you contend otherwise seems to show your Russian bias.”
Again – learn how to read. How the hell is a U-2 going to take pictures of the 58th in North Ossetia from South Ossetia? Super side-cameras with ranges of hundreds of km? Get a clue, its embarassing.
And even if my argument was *at all* contignent on whether South Ossetia is Russian territory or not, constructively, flying US warplanes over a Russian-supported separatist enclave is a provocation and an explicit show of support for Georgia trying to take back this independent region by force. Luckily, people in Washington aren’t that bloody thick to commit superpower prestige to the tie-chomping Thomas Jefferson of Tbilisi, as the warmongers seem to.
“Russia has already transferred military hardware to Iran:”
There’s a big, big difference between division-level SAMs like the Tor-M1 and S-300PMU-2s, S-400s, Iskander-E SRBMs, or whatever else Iran would like to have. And that’s not even considering Russia’s cooperation in relation to nuclear proliferation.
“And yes, from the Russian standpoint at least, such a move is not “going to result in anything good.” But that is the point, it would be a punishment”
Globally it wouldn’t be anything good, not merely from Russia’s viewpoint. Why *should* they be punished for thrashing Georgia in a short victorious war, exactly? What national interest – of Europe, of the US, is served by alienating Russia to the benefit of an insignificant shithole like Georgia? That’s why it’ll never happen.
As for the WND (a rag not worth the server its stored on) article about Syria – those are three year old falsehoods. Syria never took delivery of any such thing. In reality, the only air defence systems Russia’s ever sold to Syria are Strelets short-range, vehicle mounted SAMs, basically an SA-16 (Igla MANPADS) with a vehicle mount. They can toss them S-300s if they were so enclined. (and no, Pantsyr-S1s – also a short range point air defence system of no real significance on a strategic level, have not been delviered to Syria. The UAE – the flagship custmer – hasn’t even taken delivery of its systems yet).
As for supplying potential adversaries “first” – completely irrelevant (and also not entirely accurate) – that’s schoolyard taunt level international relations. The only relevant consideration is what/how/why/by how much a certain action harms US interests and what benefits US interests. By supporting Georgia and writing it rhetorical cheques that bounced, the US set itself up for a massive foreign policy debacle.
Wynne is an imbecile, like all the ones who still equate Russia to the Soviet Union. It is taking Russia a long time to build democracy, but it will get there. Bone-headed jerks in the current administration, as well as McCain, are too old, rigid, and dumb to appreciate and understand it. If McCain cannot learn to use Internet, how can he understand that Russia today has nothing to do with the old Communist regime, but it is still not a good idea to crap in its backyard, because it will get mad.
Wynne and all the other trigger-happy idiots need to hire Pat Buchanan to perform lobotomy and brain surgery for them. Buchanan is the only man who got it right with Ossetia.
http://mamarussianbear.blogspot.com/2008/09/pjb-who-started-cold-war-ii.html
meanrusski, Vladimir Putin reeks of the Soviet Union. Read the Wikipedia pages for Putin and McCain, then tell me who you’d rather serve. Unless, of course, the articles aren’t worth the servers their stored on.
Dorian, what do you do all day? Sit around in your Linux shirt and underwear, eating bags of Cheetos while you scour open-source intel sites? I’m joking, of course, but have you ever really served in the military?
Everone knows that “Georgia started the war in South Ossetia” but is it a stretch to assume that they were provoked, as part of a calculated plan by Russia?
Any way I look at it, Russia selling arms to Iran (a belligerent theocracy) is not beneficial to their relations with the US.
The bottom line is that Russia needs to grab an Asia-sized bag of ice and cool down; Russia enhancing their own humility is one of the many things that could really benefit the entire planet.
Russia is only selling arms to Iran to stick it to the U.S., because the Jackson-Vanik Amendment has not been removed even though all Jews who wanted to leave Russia already freely left it.
http://mamarussianbear.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-joe-biden-is-bad-for-russia.html
Putin changed the corporate tax rate in Russia from 35% to 24%, changed the progressive income tax topping at 30% to flat 13% – Bush can only dream about it. Medvedev, who was only 20 years old when perestroika began, formed intellectually during the new times. His main priority, as far as economy is concerned, is small and medium business and destroying the “law nihilism” that has existed in Russia for years.
Russia is no USSR, get used to that! If you continue treating Russians as Commies, then will be selling arms to the US enemies just to offset the balance in the world. We would be much better off getting along with them and not putting NATO at their door.
“Dorian, what do you do all day? Sit around in your Linux shirt and underwear, eating bags of Cheetos while you scour open-source intel sites? I’m joking, of course, but have you ever really served in the military?”
No – did I ever put pretentions on of having done so? It would mean nothing for my argument.
“Everone knows that “Georgia started the war in South Ossetia” but is it a stretch to assume that they were provoked, as part of a calculated plan by Russia?”
If they were provoked then they were morons – I already stated in a previous post that the snake (Russia) was just waiting for an excuse, which the Georgians obligingly gave them. There’s no indication of what super-provocative act the Russians engaged in that the Georgians just *had* to launch an all-out assault on South Ossetia to “restore constitutional order” as they called it (note they didn’t say “repel Russian aggression”). They could’ve let sleeping dogs lie.
“Any way I look at it, Russia selling arms to Iran (a belligerent theocracy) is not beneficial to their relations with the US.”
To paraphrase a song: “well what have you done for me lately?” Why shouldn’t Russia make some cash off of Iran (or whomever else) it wants to when it gets zero consideration from the US? Diplomacy’s a two-way street.
“The bottom line is that Russia needs to grab an Asia-sized bag of ice and cool down; Russia enhancing their own humility is one of the many things that could really benefit the entire planet”
I hardly see how their thrashing Georgia is an indication of too much hubris. Their expectations for their own position in the world (i.e. great land power with a sphere of influence in the region) are hardly unreasonable, let alone ahistorical.
I’ve got to say that Pat Buchanan’s article quoted below was quite good – for all his other ideas, he has been consistently sounding the alarm bell of US perceived encirclement of Russia for years – several years ago he penned an article saying explicitly that taking advantage of the temporary weakness of Russia would come back and bite us in the ass. Well, it did.
“what negatives would you dare say about him?”
What do you mean, “dare”? I am a US citizen, I dare to say whatever I want about whomever I want. From what I know from my Russian friends, they defend Putin not because they do not dare say anything bad, but because ignorant Americans like you call them “snakes” (darling Dorian) or Commies.
The opposition to the US and dislike of the US in Russia, after the initial euphoric love of the US that began in the late 80s, started from one single event – criminal Clinton bombing Christian Serbs. That was so outrageous to the Russians, who share Orthodox religion with Serbs, it hurt so deeply, and it was so much more damaging militarily and to the civilian population that anything Russia did in Georgia, that the wounds still hurt. When 9/11 happened in the US, the Russians flooded to the US Embassy to express condolences, and for a while they warmed up to the Americans again. But consistent treatment of Russia as the USSR, many years of blocking them from entering WTO, breaking the promise about not expanding NATO, etc. made regular Russians, not Putin, angry with the US.
Btw, Putin had nothing to do with Litvinenko. It is soooo stoooopid to suspect Putin in everything, I can’t even comment! It’s the same as to suggest that Bush personally instructed Sookashvili (misspelled intentionally) to attack Ossetia on August 7, to benefit McCain. Maybe Suckershvili misunderstood some mixed signals from the US, but he started the whole dumb thing on his own.
See Stratfor article about new Solzhenitsyn’s Russia here:
http://mamarussianbear.blogspot.com/2008/09/solzhenitsyn-and-struggle-for-russias.html
This is what Russians are trying to become, and they will, even though some imbeciles may not want them to.
Oh yeah, in the words of the glorious Columbo, “one more thing”: the reason most Americans are so ignorant about Russia is that they obtain their education from Wikipedia only. There are other sources, geniuses, besides Wikipedia and your TV stations that all sound in tune, like Pravda in the good ol’ Soviet times.
sheesh, reading these Soviet, i mean Russian responses here it really is clear that your all delusional crackpots, i will laugh when the day comes that your crappy hillbilly esque forces get wiped out by NATO and the US, gonna be like desert storm all over again this time with the Russians taking the role of the Iraqis. Thats if your shitty little empire dosnt collapse first like before due to greed, corruption and stupidity. Enjoy your tomato soup, vodka and mile long ques for bread you inbred tards.
meanrusski: i hope you realise that Russia oil and gas reserves are running very very low, within two, perhaps three years your Mother Russias new found wealth will have dryed up, don’t beleive me then do some research for yourself. You and your Soviet, sorry Russian empire are screwed pal and we in the west are laughing at you.
“meanrusski: i hope you realise that Russia oil and gas reserves are running very very low, within two, perhaps three years your Mother Russias new found wealth will have dryed up, don’t beleive me then do some research for yourself. You and your Soviet, sorry Russian empire are screwed pal and we in the west are laughing at you.”
God, what a schmuck. Even politicians don’t tell such blatant falsehoods. Fascinating how you make a transparently absurd statement like “Russian oil and gas reserves will be gone in 2 to 3 years” – (which would be sending shockwaves throughout Europe if that were the case, as they are dependent on Russian energy and will continue to be until they go nuclear) and then tell someone else to do the research to prove it.
How old are you? 12? The adults are talking here, go the hell away.
As an addendum, if Jimbo here wasn’t being a childish, trolling, insult-throwing infant and a liar and actually was telling the truth, you can imagine that world energy prices would be quite a bit higher than they are now – followed by a massive worldwide economic upheaval.
lol, look it up then Dorian, your in for a shock, just because i’m not doing your homework for you dosnt mean i’m lying…
Americans display overconfidence and lack of brain here. I hope you dudes are really 13-15 year olds. If you are in your 20s US of A is really f**ked. Ask yourselves how easy it would be to flood Afghanistan and Iraq with IUD kits, traceable to US manufacturers just to spite you. Because you believe everything you are told by media controlled by 5 corporations or your corrupt candidates (you should find out what airmen that served with McCain say about him and what he recorded in Nam). God loving, nave Americans are now ruled by the people that crucified Christ. I feel pity for you Hello from Miami.
Dorian, heres a hint to help you with your homework: 1.Go to google
2.Type in “Russian oil running out”
3.Weep
4.blame the west
5.Post in this thread admitting you were wrong and simple little jimbo the troll was correct
6.Enjoy your bread and tomato soup washed down with vodka.
“Posted by: Friend at September 10, 2008 10:55 AM”
You douche, i am British, now go back to reading Pravda will you.
Enjoy your soccer Jimbo Boy. How is it doing lately? I do not recommend Pravda (it still exists) but check out Asia Time atimes.com.
In my country soccer is known as football,though i must stress i have no interest in a bunch of guys running round after a ball, something kinda… gay about it.
Nice job, Americans! You could be proud with the Georgian army, the best runners in the world!
http://rutube.ru/tracks/991919.html?v=7db259ee6a9e7550a64639055b44bbb3
“lol, look it up then Dorian, your in for a shock, just because i’m not doing your homework for you dosnt mean i’m lying…”
It’s *your* homework, troll. You made the claim, *you* prove it.
Suffice to say that your claim that Russia will have no oil or gas in two years remains prima facie absurd. Russia has a lot of reserves that simply need to be exploited, hence the government taking steps to do so in rolling out tax breaks for new exploitation and other measures.
“James, its not really worth bothering with the likes of Dorian and his other braniwashed, propaganda believing suckers. Just enjoy rediculing them instead.” — Jimbo Jones
Uh, um, say, isn’t that intellectually dishonest?
This site is turning into shit. But what do you expect when you get hot-headed plug ignorant Georgians on one side and hot-headed Russians who still pine for the days of the Soviet Union on the other. Add a couple of shit stirrers like Jimbo Jones and Dorian and it is dog’s breakfast.
If you look what happened it was Russia carefully screwing around with a bunch of hillbillies on its border. The United States was never going to intervene becasuse no one is going to start World War Three over a bunch of inbred rednecks whose perceived honour is bigger than their brains and probably tried to get the US involved to defend it. This shit used to go on all the time in the late 19th century, in the same region by the same players.
Oh for all the so-called weapons experts. Russian rearmament is small in comparison to its needs and those are from Riussian figures not mine. Nearly all its equipment was designed and built in the 1980s and despite some of it being upgraded, most of it is in dire need of replacing and sorry, the US has copies of most of it, purchasing it with US dollars from the old Soviet states and what was in the old Warsaw pact.
If they had wanted to intervene a few JDAM and MOAB equipped B-1 s and B-2s would have wiped off the planet what was left of South Ossetia and collapsed tunnel linking Russian with Georgia.
Get with the progam.
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