Comments on: A Modest Proposal on the F-22

By: angel

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By: angel

angel — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:30:14 +0000

By: fargus

fargus — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:07:55 +0000

lolin at the idiots in this thread comparing Australia to Iran/Mujahideen.

By: Mastro63

Mastro63 — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:57:47 +0000

“errr…they made ALL 186 Raptors already?“
Well at very least they’ve ordered all the components. I don’t know if the last airframe has been started.
I’m in manufacturing and when you order the last batch of components/raw materials– well, you better have another program in the planning stage or layoffs will be a coming.

By: Kiren

Kiren — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:46:40 +0000

If the F22 is made exportable then the leaking of tech is inevitable, regardless of who the USA sells it to, Australia, Japan etc. I’m Australian and I do not think selling us the F22 is a good idea, mainly for the sake of the US to keep its competive edge thus the West but also because I dont think Australia can afford to buy many of the planes they are so expensive, is our small order really going to be enought to keep the production lines open?
I think we Australians are given too much credit these days in military terms. Yes we have a very proffessional military force. But the tech will end up in most likely Chinese hands etc, Australia wont willingly sell/distrubute tech and corruption is extremely rare in Australia but you can be sure at the least literally a nut and bolt(which could provide information on stealth paint makeup or the composites of the metal used in the plane) is sure to go missing whether by Chinese spies paying grandly for it or a airforce tech see dollar signs.
I guess what I am trying to say is that export invariably means that tech will be stolen.
IMO give us water based NLOS-LS systems with unmaned sensors to control our vast sea borders and as a means to extend our strategic capability (to be able to blockade waterways with the systems therefore having a strategic deterant like the USA’s aircraft carriers) and alot of Patriot missile batteries and we have what we really need. Australia cant afford the F22.

By: Martin Baker

Martin Baker — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:03:35 +0000

@ Matt “albeit with a squadron of F-35B’s to be flown from the two new Amphibious Assault ships we are building thus giving Australia a more flexible air combat capability“
Hahaha nice idea. Not able to be carried out without vast improvements.
The Royal Australian Navy is having enough manning issues at the moment. Looked into recent reports of Collins-class Sub capabilities? I’d like to know where the Sailors to man both of the Amphibious Assault Ships would come from.
And I’d like to know where the F-35B maintainers and aircrew would come from. Even if the federal government found a bucket of money to supply the aircraft.
Both Royal Australian Navy and Royal Australian Air Force don’t have enough technicians to keep these airborne. Let alone operational.
It’d be nice to be able to support F-35B operations but the Australian Defence Force has very big recruitment and retention issues that can’t/won’t be solved for a long time.

By: Martin Baker

Martin Baker — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:52:32 +0000

As a resident of Australia and member of the Australian Defence Force I find the doubts in our ability to fulfill the requirements of an ally disturbing.
However I take heart knowing that these comments likely haven’t come from Service personnel.
Having worked alongside US service personnel numerous times I can say that we do operate well together and the professionalism of everybody is faultless.

By: Matt

Matt — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:54:35 +0000

Speaking as an Australian the advantage for us in purchasing the F-22 is more related to its range and super cruise ability than its stealth capabilities. Essential they would be taking over the role of long range strike and recon that our current fleet of F-111’s perform which the F-35 is not really suited to. Ideally Australia should replace its F-111’s with F-22’s and continue on with the F-35 purchase albeit with a squadron of F-35B’s to be flown from the two new Amphibious Assault ships we are building thus giving Australia a more flexible air combat capability.

By: X-Border

X-Border — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:15:40 +0000

As a longterm resident of Japan, and as an Aussie, I can say I’d be very confident that you could trust the Australians with F-22 technology. Comparing Australia to Israel or the Taliban, as some posters have, is ridiculous.
Japan however, I’d be far less likely to trust, not due to planned malice on behalf of JSDF in leaking technology, but because Japanese companies have a long history of corruption, including sales of banned technologies (e.g. nuclear) to countries like China and North Korea.
For example, see:
ttp://thebulletin.org/web-edition/features/japans-struggle-to-limit-illegal-dual-use-exports
”- Four Japanese companies have either knowingly or unknowingly illegally exported sensitive materials that could be used to help build a nuclear weapon.
– Specifically, International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have found components from Japanese companies at nuclear-related facilities in Libya and North Korea“
This is no surprise to me since I’ve seen stories like this every year here in Japan for the past decade that I have resided in Tokyo. Its the tip of the iceberg worthy of a much longer article.
And regarding the lighthearted Pearl Harbor quip, I’ve noticed a growing hypersensitivity post 9/11. Maybe those living in the U.S. don’t notice it, but increasing levels of extreme reactions to light hearted or critical comments are a very dangerous sign that a nation is heading down a worrying ultra-nationalistic path (ever see the nutcase reactions of North Koreans to and comment that could even remotely be taken as criticism?). Don’t take yourselves so seriously.

By: Brian

Brian — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:58:28 +0000

We really just need to make up our minds as far as how we intend to use the F-22. I don’t personally care — I’m not the one who has to fly them or keep them up. It seems to me we have two options if we want to keep the thing as a viable military tool.
First, we could keep it all to ourselves and have it as a boutique weapon, like the B-2. In this case, the current situation is fine. 186 Raptors is enough if we just intend to fly them in small groups in support of lots of other aircraft. Personally, I think this is a waste of resouces and a waste of the plane’s capabilities. But that’s one possibility. If we use it this way, it will probably remain in service for 20–25 years before it becomes too expensive to maintain and they replace it with something else.
Second, we could buy a lot more of the things and use them as the ultimate air dominance weapon. We could buy 380 or so and keep all the secrets to ourselves. This will cost more money, but we will be able to use the plane in a more serious way.
Third, we can use this plane as a significant, but not all-important, part of our air force. We could sell it to our closest allies and trust them to keep it close to the vest. It wouldn’t be our “ultimate secret weapon” anymore, but it would be one more advantage for the good guys.
Either option 2 or option 3 sound better to me than option 1.