For once it seems the Army is actually turning fiction into science.
After nearly a decade in the shadows — with billions spent on earlier versions long since abandoned — the Army is moving quickly to field a revolutionary new weapon to Joes a lot sooner than anyone had ever imagined.
It’s a weapon that can take out a bad guy behind a wall, beyond a hill or below a trench, and do it more accurately and with less collateral damage than anything on the battlefield today, officials say. It’s called the XM25 Individual Air Burst Weapon, and by next month the service will have three prototypes of the precision-guided 25mm rifle ready for testing.
“We’ve done a lot of testing with this, and what we’re seeing is the estimated increase in effectiveness is six times what we’d be getting with a 5.56mm carbine or a grenade launcher,” said Rich Audette, Army Deputy Project Manager for Soldier weapons.
“What we’re talking about is a true ‘leap ahead’ in lethality, here. This is a huge step,” Audette added during a phone interview with Military.com from his office at Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey.
Born of the much-maligned and highly-controversial Objective Individual Combat Weapon — a 1990s program that sought a “leap ahead” battle rifle that combined a counter-defilade weapon with a carbine — the XM25 only recently gained new momentum after the Army formalized a requirement and released a contract in June for a series of test weapons.
Current infantry weapons can shoot at or through an obstacle concealing enemy threats, but the Army has been trying for years to come up with a weapon for engaging targets behind barriers without resorting to mortars, rockets or grenades — all of which risk greater collateral damage. After fits and starts using a 20mm rifle housed in a bulky, overweight, complicated shell, technology finally caught up to shave the XM25 from 21 pounds to a little more than 12 pounds.
If the XM25 does what its developers hope, it will be able to fire an air-bursting round at a target from 16 meters away out to 600 meters with a highly accurate, 360-degree explosive radius.
The XM25 is about as long as a collapsed M4, weighs about as much as an M16 with an M203 grenade launcher attached and has about as much kick as a 12-gauge shotgun, said Barb Muldowney, Army deputy program manager for infantry combat weapons.
The semi-auto XM25 comes with a four-round magazine, though testers are looking at whether to increase the capacity to as much as 10 rounds.
Brains are what really makes this Buck Rogers gun work — it has them. The weapon combines a thermal optic, day-sight, laser range finder, compass and IR illuminator with a fire-control system that wirelessly transmits the exact range of the target into the 25mm round’s fuse before firing.
A Soldier can aim the XM25 at a wall concealing a sniper, for example, but “dial in” or adjust the distance by an additional meter above the target. When fired, the Alliant Teksystems-built round will explode above the enemy’s position, essentially going around the obstruction, Muldowney said.
“It’s so accurate, that when I laze to that target I’m going to be able to explode that round close enough that I’m going to get it,” Audette added.
The service hopes to field several types of 25mm rounds for the XM25 — for breaching doors, piercing armor, even non-lethal air burst and impact rounds, and an anti-personnel round.
Testers at Picatinny plan to put the XM25 through its paces over the next several months, certifying it as safe for a Soldier to operate and tinkering with the weapon’s effectiveness and durability.
The weapon costs about $25,000 each, but experts were quick to point out that a fully-loaded M4 for optics and pointers costs pretty close to $30,000. Each ATK-made 25mm round costs about $25.
As Heckler and Koch, makers of the weapon itself, and L3 Communications — which makes the fire control system — crank out more weapons, the Army plans to push them out to the field for testing beginning in March 2009. That could include the first use of such a weapon in combat, Cline said.
If all goes according to plan, Soldiers might have their first XM25s in hand by 2014, far sooner than the Army’s small arms community had predicted even last year.
The program “came very close to ending,” Audette explained. “But the Army took a look at all the work that was done — and the testing that projected the kind of lethality increase that we could get — and they said ‘we’ve got to do this.’ ”
– Christian
{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }
What would be the use of this gun? I mean, would every infantry rifleman carry one?
Or would it be part of a fireteam replacing the M16-M203 grenadier guy? (something like 1 XM25, 1 SAW, 2 rifles like ACR’s?)
Or a squad weapon?
Good luck. . . I’d rather carry both an M16A2 (preferably an M14) and an M79 than the XM25. Once again Buck Rogers hoopla and excess weight will probably get the nod over common sense.
So I guess the XM-8 is going to be the new weapon since it will already be purchased as a bottom attachment to XM-25? The weapon will require the attached XM-8 or as soon as the squad goes into the building one guy either goes combat ineffective or drops down to his sidearm. You wont be doing 25mm air burst in a 10×10 you are flooding into.
Off course some advantage would be to put one or two rounds through a door into the next room just prior to entering. When you get into non-close quarter combat this thing could bring some real advantage. The enemy will have to consider 3-D cover not just 2-D. Almost like being able to deliver flanking fire without maneuvering. The question is would one XM-25 rifleman per squad be able to put enough fire on target to get that effect?
If it is stupid and it works, than it isn’t stupid.
I’ve been tracking the XM25 for about 2 years now since I found out about it and the idea is this. It will replace the use of the m203 but it will do much more then that. As the article says the lethality range is less than a grenade (normal and an m203 launched one) and certainly less than a rocket, mortar, bomb, etc. This sounds bad, but the concept is that in a war based in civilian areas for hearts and minds collateral should be kept at a minimum. The XM25 is just as deadly because it puts the explosion more accurately on target in the most effective manner (airburst) killing the enemy better but causing less damage to building and other people not involved.
12 pounds really isn’t that heavy at all for a squad support weapon and the weapon fires very fast from the videos and its still works fine even when its out of power because you can still shoot it.
It will work…if they can come up with a single or double shot version for the regular rifleman. Problem is, the guy carrying this toy is a walking bullseye.
All they need for close range is some kind of shotgun round – if you can put 18 pellets of 00 buckshot in a 3″ 12 gauge shell, you should be able to put 25+ into one of these.
So what happens to this thing when the enemy uses IRCMs on the laser rangefinder? Does the projectile fuse randomly? Is there an operator override?
It worked for Ripley, believe it or not……
I have no idea how it would be used in an actual combat/tacticial situation nor order of battle I think it’s called.
If it works then add it on and keep them and more lethal weapons coming. We need an edge to keep us on top. So far it seems nothing beats a good old group of guys with RPG’s, AK-47s, SVDs and PKM’s.
This weapon looks like it would be ideal for special forces or insurgent type actions. Its capabilities would appear to allow it to bypass the protection afforded by gunshields and open-topped turrets mounted on convoy vehicles and escorts.
I sure hope it carries some type of safety device such that it can’t be easily used or captured by an enemy.
The XM25 mounted on an XM8 is really bulky.
Maybe they should look into is replacing the giving the person carrying the XM25 a MP7.
It would give the user close in lethality with out much weight,and the XM25 can be used for engagements past the lethal range of the MP7.
What ever happened to the Korean XK11? Was it ever fielded?
“Korea OICW – XK11″
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmA_UnEdoX0
As someone else already said, didn’t they already adopt and then discard the M-79?
But now I recall the Marines (and who knows else) have fielded a standalone six-shot grenade launcher, so there is a modern precedent. So I’ll withhold skepticism on the close-range vulnerability of the user and watch what happens.
“Phase Plasma rifle in the 40 Watt Range?”
“Just whatcha see, buddy.”
The only problem I can see with this weapon is that if the shooter gets into a serious firefight, he may well blast off all his rounds trying to suppress people in a few seconds. Then what does he do? He can’t get spare mags from other members of his squad, if he’s the only one with that caliber. As much as I want to doubt the technology, though, it looks like this one might work pretty well.
Nick
“…it will be able to fire an air-bursting round…with a highly accurate, 360-degree explosive radius.”
IIRC, some versions of the grenade system use ordinary shrap. Others are shaped charge/EFP/molten shrap. So some versions will throw a 360 degree pattern, and others will throw a cone. IIRC, point detonation is also an option.
“What would be the use of this gun?”
In the short term, it might be an SOF/direct action weapon. It would seem suited for something like a designated marksman role, something you’d use for overwatch, or EOD. But I don’t know what’s in the works.
“All they need for close range is some kind of shotgun round…”
Sorry, but the grenade is spin stabilized; don’t know the spin rate, but IIRC, it’s pretty fast. A shotgun round would throw a donut pattern, unless you fixed a choke to the end that stopped the spin. Even if you did that, you’d have to soldier-proof it. Good luck with that.
“So far it seems nothing beats a good old group of guys with RPG’s, AK-47s, SVDs and PKM’s.”
Yeah, the old Soviet infantry platoon order of battle is a recipe for pure chaos, all over the world. You’ve pretty much got to go with 40mm, .50 cal, LAW or SMAW, artillery and air support, etc., etc. to beat it down.
This is just another tool in the toolbox. Don’t really see it as a game changer, but you never know. Being able to blow up an IED or bomb vest or rucksack filled with RPG rounds from a distance might prove pretty handy.
The price tag is stunningly low, particularly for the 25mm rounds at a mere $25 each.
This is far less that the next least expensive “smart” munitions, like Excaliber artillery rounds or Viper strike missiles. For that matter, it is fairly cheap compared to moderate sized dumb or low tech rounds. Many kinds of hand grenades cost more. (See http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/hand.html).
My guess is it would replace the grenadier’s M203.
Carrying 60 rounds or so wouldn’t be a problem, perhaps he could carry an MP7 or later something like the MagPul PDR for close defense.
Seems the XM25 is very specialized use: you use it to kill the enemy after your rifle and MG teams have fixed them in place. There probably won’t be a lot of wasted fire.
My guess is it would replace the grenadier’s M203.
Carrying 60 rounds or so wouldn’t be a problem, perhaps he could carry an MP7 or later something like the MagPul PDR for close defense.
Seems the XM25 is very specialized use: you use it to kill the enemy after your rifle and MG teams have fixed them in place. There probably won’t be a lot of wasted fire.
Somebody said shotgun type rounds? (Good idea)
Then someone else said spin stabilized w/rifling, etc. (= bad for shotgun rounds)
How hard would it be to make a canister type round, full of 00-Buck, that has driving bands around it so it doesn’t spin?
Didn’t they use to do that with the early HEAT rounds designed to be shot out of a rifled 105mm barrel?
While more complex than a shotgun type round, it *should* work….. right?
@ Ontos:
Don’t know about a driving band, or the HEAT app you refer to. If I have time, I’ll research it, and re-post.
I have heard of a shot cup/sabot app that’s geared to spin opposite rifling spin, so that the net spin on the payload (shot or finned penetrator) is 0. But, I don’t recall the details.
Food for thought, and further inquiry.
couple of points:
1) at 12 pounds unloaded, it’s 4 pounds lighter than an m249.
2) the xm8 is not the army’s new carbine. it is not the bottom attachment to the xm25. the xm25 is a completely separate standalone weapon.
3) with up to six types of ammo to choose from, the xm25 guy in the platoon is going to be weighed down. he’s got a tough choice to make. does he try to cover every possible situation and carry a little of everything (airburst, anti-personnel, nonlethal, etc.), or does he bet that he’ll only need one type and carry a lot of that?
4) with all that weight, the xm25 guy isn’t going to carry anything heavier than a pistol sidearm. anything that chews through ammo, no matter how small, requires lots of extra magazines.
I’m an m240 gunner in the Corps. I’m required to carry an m16 in addition to my m240 whenever I’m outside of the wire. I’m not allowed to carry a pistol instead of an m16 supposedly because an m9 pistol is not a sufficient “primary weapon.” The 240′bravo weighs 27.5ish lbs.
However, m249 gunners are not required to carry an m16 or a pistol with them because an m249 is considered a “primary weapon.” Sucks to be me. But if I can hump with a 240 and an m16, then anyone using the xm25 should be able to as well.
How about main battle rifle compatible “smart rifle grenades”??? Everybody could hump some. No specialized weapons. I”m sure a modular sighting system would be required but they might even be able to work in a “tag team” manner with a few sights serving several “launchers”. Could have same range of warhead types more even since not size limited by a barrel. True it would most likely cost more per round but I think the universality could be a serious game enhancer. A little farther down the line imagine being able to launch them ballistically and lase them on target. Or shoot through that pesky window. Light mortar and RPG capabilities with minimal extra hardware.
Just a thought.
For those of you who don’t check this site regularly, there will be a competition for a gun to replace the M4 next year. 1 of the requirements is that bids include a compact weapon. That might become a secondary weapon for M25 gunners.
Soda Jones, I’m amazed that you are required to carry an M16 in addition to your M240. In the past, a pistol was the standard secondary weapon for machine gunners.
Good Morning Folks,
All good coments but one is missing, why does the Army/Marines need the XM-25?
This concept has been is development for 20-25 years now, if the U.S. was looking at facing a large Army on the plains of Northern Europe, like the Soviet Union of ole again, this dual killing machine maybe makes sense. But thats not the case anymore. If you haven’t noticed there has been some radical changes in the TO&E of the Rifle Company of late.
The new Brigade Combat Team starts with a five man Squad, down from nine which was down from a cold war sizeof 11 or 13 men, there is more interested in F’s 1&2 of the axium of find ‘em, fix ‘em, fight ‘em and finish ‘em. The actual fighting is to be left to indirect fire support with the finish ‘em to be done by direct fire from armor, ATH’s and UCAV’s.
When that done the rifle squads job will be to go in and count the bodies. The will be no more Fallugahs, Ramadas or Karballas for the U.S. Military.
The current defense budget working its way through Congress as I post this confirms that. The Army will get full funding for it FCS at $26 billion, Bush/DoD only asked for $3.6 billion.
As for the concept of the XM-25, its cool but tacticaly the art of warefare has moved on and like the broad sword the XM-25 has no place in the scheme of things. Sorry guys.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Is the photograph reversed?
Check previous article.
Will, I don’t know how the SOP is in Iraq, but that’s how it works in the Stan’
Byron Skinner, I deeply disagree with your post. We piss through 203′ rounds like it’s cool. I can only imagine how much better it would be to have something as promising as the XM25 in our hands. I can count many times where having the capabilities of the XM25 would have made a difficult situation much simpler. I’m a big fan of “simple” and so are my Marines.
It has been said, on here, that this weapon would be great for special forces. While I’m sure it would be, I know how incredible it would be in the hands of conventional forces. ROE is a tricky thing sometimes, and this may be able to simplify some of those contingencies involved.
@ Soda…. totally agree, Semper Fi.
So, another thing to ponder:
When (not if) the computer goes down…. when happens to the rounds when they’re sent downrange?
It’s been stated that you can still fire the thing if you’ve got no power, but what happens to the fuzing? Do they just revert back to contact detonation or do you have what amounts to a big, heavy, 25mm rifle? What gives?
@ Byron
I respectfully disagree with one of your main concepts:
“The actual fighting is to be left to indirect fire support with the finish ‘em to be done by direct fire from armor, ATH’s and UCAV’s.
When that done the rifle squads job will be to go in and count the bodies. The will be no more Fallugahs, Ramadas or Karballas for the U.S. Military.”
People have been saying this since the introduction of atomic weapons in the late ’40′s…. and yet we had Korea, Vietnam, etc. Even longer if you consider what some were saying as to the effect of the machine gun on leg-infantry in WWI.
In fact, I remember these same arguments in the Corps in the mid-90′s when I was in, and what it came down to is the general idea that, “There will *always* be a Hati, or Dominican Republic, or some other crap-hole we’re gonna have to go duke it out in.”
From my perspective, the Army severely neglected their infantry for way too long because they were focusing on the Soviet threat. Now in the shadow of Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has realized the error of their ways and is turning out some of the best (in terms of quality and overall organizational support) infantry in the world. I hope the Army brass doesn’t forget the lessons that have been learned the past several years.
It’s my opinion, and probably always will be, that as long as there are people that need killing, we’re going to need 18 and 19-year old boys with rifles and bayonets to go do it.
Ontos, FRAG-12?
Fin stabilised 12 gauge 19mm warheads, in 3 flavours, HE, Frag & Armour Piercing
“As for the concept of the XM-25, its cool but tacticaly the art of warefare has moved on and like the broad sword the XM-25 has no place in the scheme of things. Sorry guys.”
Um, no.
As far as last-ditch close quarter fighting is concerned, could you just disable the fuse? I am sure that getting a 25mm round in his gut would put the charlie on the ground for a few minutes.
@Ontos:
You’re right. The mechanism’s called a slip ring, or a slip obturator. Problem is, it doesn’t eliminate spin; it just retards it.
That might work for a large caliber HEAT, HESH, APFDS or finned PGM round; a little spin wouldn’t affect it a lot. Don’t know how it would work for a 25mm buckshot round.
Two ideas: first, an ordinary shot cup or sabot is pulled off the payload by drag. You might also separate it by counterspun fins. A slip ring would retard some of the spin, and drag fins on the sabot would eliminate the rest.
Second, I’ve seen patents for sub-projectiles that aren’t ordinary round shot. Some of the shaped penetrators are spin stabilized, usually aerodynamically.
In this case, it might be possible to design KE sub-projectiles that are actually stabilized by the 25mm bore’s spin rate, rather than simply dispersed. You’d create a cloud of penetrators auguring towards and/or around the aimpoint axis — not a donut spinning away from it.
That might work, but it’s just a SWAG, FWIW.
XM25s don’t stand out like British MGs of old nor is it as obvious as a flamethrower. Good point, but I don’t think it really matters here.
>Wouldn’t anybody carrying this weapon draw a certain amount of unwelcome attention to
>himself?
You have to remember the army plans to eventually integrate this with a conventional weapon and use it as general issue. Therefore, most soldiers will have one. Can’t snipe everybody, at least not without a large amount of highly trained snipers all with rifles that will be of lower effectiveness when the enemy gets in close and takes cover.
This would surely be carried by some members of a platoon etc. with others having conventional weapons. So this is in effect replacement for conventional grenade launchers, since rifle shot still needed to pick off isolated troops and near friendlies, and also to save expensive rounds when not needed. That could have been made more clear, since article seems like talking up replacement for basic infantry rifle etc.
Possible complications — ECM (very unlikely in current war), electronics malfunction (much more likely), user input error (not digging the Army, but it happens), mechanical failure.
If all of these complications happen at once, then you’ve STILL got a man-carried bullpup-sized grenade launcher with more consistency than anything we currently field. Now picture what you get if it all works perfectly! Field testing will tell the final story on the XM25, much like it did for the Land Warrior system. I like the way this looks on paper, but when was the last time that was accurate?
perfect!
Cute looking, but totally impractical if it doesn’t meet the following criteria 1. Can these be produced in quantity for LESS than $150 each? 2. Can these be dropped from shoulder height on to a concrete slab without being critically damaged, or at least not losing its zero? 3. Does it have back-up iron sights? 4. Will its principal cartridge penetrate a 4-inch thick wooden beam or slab door?
Forget this thing and bring back the LAW, it takes
out targets behind obstacles and a soldier can pack 3 of them. I you really get in a bind, it can take out vehicles too.
I will stick with my M16, my 2,100 gun manual DVD, and 4,500 pinup girl dvd.
James
Well al I can say to you James have to love them at http://www.armymilitarymanuals.com
The XM25 affords additional flexibility with a smarter more controlled munition. Its another tool, in the long list of weapon options, and more than anything else that is what the XM25 seems to be about giving soldiers and their commander options. The numbers do seem to be on its side so at some point the leap of faith should be taken and some of these test fielded. I think its only at that point that any fair criticism can truly come to light.
The slideshow is interesting.
The fire control includes a compass, which is entirely unnecessary for the accurate firing of the weapon itself.
This looks as if this sensor is at the same time meant to be a tool in the process for calling external fire support (mortar, artillery, air strike).
How does the price of a fully loaded M4 get to $30,000?
Probably two men in your typical nine man squad would be armed with the XM25, which will probably be redesignated as the M25 if it enters mainstream service. These men will probably also have carbines, similar to the way Marines with the M32 40mm revolver grenade launcher do. A smaller PDW would be more ideal as their secondary weapon in my opinion, but currently we don’t have one in service.
The XM29 OICW was a weapon system combining a 5.56x45mm carbine and 20mm
This all sounds wonderful as usual. The main problem as I see it though is this. Whatever happened to the good old mindset of the WWII era that there are no “Non-Combatants”? I hate to be the one to break it to everybody but the fact is, you can’t reason with fanatics. Not men, not women, not children, not dogs, not cats, not goats, not camels, NOT ! We are dealing with the type of enemy today that we dealt with in WWII, just like the Japanese & the Nazi’s were. You MUST kill them ALL or, be willing to kill enough of them to make those who are left understand that there is only one hope and that is to be good little boys and girls or die. We MUST stop worrying about the “So Called” collateral damage and what the “WORLD OPINION” is. The only lives we should be concerned with is the lives of the Brothers on either side of you as they are the only ones worried about your life. As we did and thought in “WWII, KILL ‘EM ALL, LET GOD SORT ‘EM OUT” !!!
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Hello.
I have invented PCBAR(practical curved barrel assault rifle), it is only one weapon that wins xm25 in the world, it is also be used to win robot soldiers in the future.
If you hold a PCBAR, you can shoot from a hidden place, but if you use a XM25, you can not fire from a hidden place, you must be in the open. What you exposes is a barrel when using a PCBAR , what you exposes is a whole rifle and all your body when using a XM25.The soldier holding PCBAR charges a place after fired a bullet, you using XM25 are very very hard to find the soldier holding the PCBAR.
It is well known that “it is easy to dodge a spear in the open, but hard to guard against an arrow shot from a hidden place”, you using XM25 must be killed. In addition to all of the above, the PCBAR can resist the attack from e-bomb, but the XM25 can not, so the PCBAR is the only one weapon to win the XM25. compared with XM25, the costs of the PCBAR is cheaper, the weight is lighter.
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