I saw this program last night on 60 Minutes and I thought I’d explore it with you all.
It’s a segment on a former Delta officer who lead a team tasked with killing or capturing bin Laden in Afghanistan. Calling himself Dalton Fury, the former officer (a major at the time) has written a book on his experiences artfully titled “Kill bin Laden: A Delta Force Commander’s Account of the Hunt for the World’s Most Wanted Man” (in case we couldn’t understand the title itself)…
I know nothing about the book, though I have requested a review copy from the publisher and I’ll peel it open for you when I get it. But the premise of the report is that Fury was frustrated by higher headquarters’ management of the hunt, denying his plan to A.) attack bin Laden in Tora Bora from the rear — aka from Pakistan…and B.) lay landmines in the approaches to bin Laden’s Tora Bora lair so that one one went off, Delta could target the al Qaeda troops with Specters and Spookies.
After being denied on both, they decided on a frontal assault with Afghan allies of questionable loyalties and motivations, eventually allowing bin Laden to slip away — though they did think they’d killed him in an air strike.
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My thought is this: First of all, NO DUH they denied your plan to approach Tora Bora from Pakistan…the risks, both diplomatic and military were too much to contemplate. It’s one thing to have planes flying out of remote bases; another to have an “invading” ground force try an Alpine assault from an area teeming with AQ and their sympathizers. Also…LAND MINES!? Come on, you HAD to have known that would never fly. As if Afghanistan doesn’t have enough of them littering the landscape already. What are we, the Soviets? (their potential words, not mine)…
Also, in terms of who this guy is…I’m wondering if he’s Pete Blaber, a star of Sean Naylor’s “Not a Good Day to Die” on the fight for Takur Gar and Operation Anaconda.
Check this report out and throw your $.02 into the comments. To me this seems like a reasonably frustrated officer irked at reasonably legitimate restrictions on his operations. But I can’t wait to read the book…
– Christian
Excellent point — I watched this last night and was wondering the same thing: Duh, of course the plan was too risky — with the attitude of the ANA (showing deference and reverence for UBL’s voice on the radio), with limited troops, with the risk of coming over the ridges with oxygen and the sovereignty concern of Pakistan… no kidding this was denied. I’m surprised that the interviewer didn’t ask something like “Why are you so surprised that the operation was denied? It may not be the best news, but it sure makes sense…”.
Finally, I’m wondering why he insinuated it was ‘either’ Central Command or the President. With an implied (or so I inferred) emphasis on the latter… Is there something I’m missing here?
Hmm.
Excellent point — I watched this last night and was wondering the same thing: Duh, of course the plan was too risky — with the attitude of the ANA (showing deference and reverence for UBL’s voice on the radio), with limited troops, with the risk of coming over the ridges with oxygen and the sovereignty concern of Pakistan… no kidding this was denied. I’m surprised that the interviewer didn’t ask something like “Why are you so surprised that the operation was denied? It may not be the best news, but it sure makes sense…”.
Finally, I’m wondering why he insinuated it was ‘either’ Central Command or the President. With an implied (or so I inferred) emphasis on the latter… Is there something I’m missing here?
Hmm.
Pete Blaber in “Not a Good Day to Die” was identified as a Lieutenant Colonel, not a Major, so I don’t think the author of the new book or the guy in the 60 Minutes report is him.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Jz4zjLuvZsUC&pg=PA10&vq=blaber&dq=not+a+good+day+to+die+sean+naylor&source=gbs_search_s&sig=ACfU3U0qz02NCQfw-zDdSp54rr0MTVUyGQ
Aaaannndd…I see you’ve already found that out. I swear that Update wasn’t there when I STARTED typing…
Excellent point, my foot. What planet are you living on?
Let’s see, piss off the Pakis or kill Bin Laden. Let me think, this is a hard one. Give me a break. I guess it is ok to let a few dozen twenty-year olds get killed in the mountains of Afganistan but heaven forbid if a mid-level bureaucrat lost his job because the Pakistanis were offended.
BTW, are these the same Pakistanis that deputy secretary Armitage threatened with annihilation if they did not cooperate?
Also since when did land-mines become illegal? I must have missed that treaty?
I suppose if you think of Tora Bora like the nearby mall I guess that sort of attitude makes sense.
Your attitude is symptomatic of a general mindset that regards wars as antiseptic activities that we can fight in surgical rooms without getting any blood on ourselves.
God help us,
I have a hard time believing this is an actual delta operator… If he is, how was he authorized to provide an interview on such a “risky” topic?
Knowing a few delta members myself, one being a founding member, they despise people like Eric Haney and this guy who reveal the highly secretive lives of delta. Most trusted delta members are very quiet and closed lipped no matter their opinions. This story just sounds suspect to me, especially when he insinuated it was the presidents fault for the failures in killing Bin Laden.
I’m sorry I missed the 60 Minutes report on Obama Biden,oops sorry,I meant Osama Bin Laden.
I think the whole thing was political from the jump. It’s fustrating that Delta wasn’t allowed to do their jobs. What’s the point of these types of OPs if they can’t be done secretly from whereever is tactically benefitical? That included the Pakistan side of the border. The Obama Biden comment by Roy Smith was in poor taste since it’s a fact that the Bush and his GOP has a much deeper (financal) connection to the Bin Ladens.
To George P
Maybe we are reading different articles, but he did not say that Mines were banned (the US is not a signatory of the Ottawa Treaty). Nor did he advocate for the bureaucrat as you have pasted it. I took him as being highly cynical in his views of the decision making process.
He is living in the real world, he stated what DID happen, not what he WANTED to happen.
What DID happen, was that a bunch of bureaucrats and Politicians made a POLITICAL decision and the optimum military answer was voided in favour of the optimum political answer. Yes that sucks, but that is the way it works.
I took his article as a reminder that good communications between field commanders and politicians can lead to poor military decisions. AKA
To Scathsealgaire:
Christian was doing more than delivering the message, he was agreeing with it. I suppose it was obvious to him that this request would have been denied because he has come to know these types so much that he can anticipate how they would react. Sort of not smelling the trash dump when you live next to it. But to the rest of us that sort of reaction stinks.
I am 45 years old with an 18 and a 16 year old and if a request like that came across my desk I wouldn’t be worried on how it would read in the next day’s paper or on my next review. I would be thinking that could be my kid out there and I would make the right call. Life is actually simple when you do the right thing, it only gets complicated when your try to invent ways to avoid it.
I see damn DC politics impacting a mission that the White House etc had to Order.
They had to know risks pre Mission.
Bogus.
Air assult over Pakistan.
Use HALO?
Have Army Green Beret on ground for Rendevous Force
& KILL the SOB OBL.
Now that time is Never unless OBL does something really crazy to get trapped this next time
Someone had to OK the Mission from DC
I agree with Ops officer.
Or theyd never go IN.
Plenty of bull shit here. The US follows the Ottawa Treaty due to it being International Law and it being a good citzen. Coming in from Pakisatn was never on because it would have been compromised by elements of the Pakistani military if they had known of it; and sovreignty is a thing best kept as the US needed and needs Pakistan in the war in Afghanistan. All you wannabes try living in the real world. Roy you are obviously reading too much conspiracy theory crap as the ‘sophisticated’ bombs that were used in the Bali bombing were very simple devices. Don’t patronise me that you know better, you don’t.
I’m not SF, I’m not a politician, but what I do know is that :
1. The military is an poltical instrument, so every military operational decision has political implications. So using Pakistan as startingpoint for your campaign is a no go.
2. Landmines to alert SF where OBL is, is just redicilus, heard of goats? And what Cristian said, there are enough of them allready.
Besides the Naylor book on the fight for Takur Gar and Operation Anaconda, the battle around Tora Bora in late 2001 produced several books found in Borders in the Military History section. The latest report by Richard Engel adds more evidence to the dereliction of duty by Bush, Rumsfeld and the civilian Pentagon leadership.
I have to agree that this guy just doesn’t seem “Delta” to me. First no SOF I have ever known would be shooting off thier mouths about any mission, secondly they would come up with a better disguise if they did air because some of their former ‘co-workers’ might not be too happy with them coming out.
Amazing, that is all I can say… I believe I know this man, too, judging by his mannerisms… I swear I know him…
I am joining the Marine Corps, I have been thinking about SF ever since 12SEP01 and this just makes me want to fight with them even more. I feel no shame about what this man did, he believed he had a duty to tell the American public about how politics and the beuracracy got in the way of these men doing their job! This disgusts me…
Semper Fi…
Look if Bin Laden had a 1000 guys watching his butt, you know at least one of those guys — or his uncle, sister, or old dude he smoked hash with — had probably been in some manner, “taking calls” from the CIA for the last 15–20 years (Well in advance of 9/11). Soviet/Afghan conflict probably helped lay the groundwork in this regard.
I seriously doubt Bin Laden’s whereabout’s were any kind of unknown to the intelligence community around the time “Fury” and his team arrived on the scene.
Then and now, Fury is likely in a classic left– hand-not-knowing-what-the-right-hand-is-doing situation.
Fury and company — the “left hand” — follow through on the mission and meet with dissapointment. Later Fury publicly communicates what happens and does so with command approval, encouragement even. Why? He’s only able to talk about what he knows; Fury is effectively in a “compartment” on this matter.
Fury and team — The left hand — unknowingly provide cover for a figurative “right hand,” — Perhaps a second team that did apprehend Bin Laden and remove him from Afghanistan for interrogation
With Bin Laden, we’re talking a terrorist leader here; You don’t just want to wax the guy before finding out what he knows, where his assetts are around the globe. Interrogation/Custody prevents surprises down the road.
“The US follows the Ottawa Treaty due to it being International Law and it being a good citzen.“
Posted by: tontochoc at October 7, 2008 05:59 AM
I’ll have to correct you here.
The US still uses land mines and is not constrained by the Ottowa Treaty. The Treaty is not International Law, to be such it would have to be passed by the UN and Ratified by EVERY sovereign nation. It has never been ratified by the US.
“the United States in 2004 banned all undetectable mines (those made with very small quantities of metal) from its arsenal. By 2010, the United States plans to abandon use of all persistent mines — regardless of whether they are of anti-personnel or anti-vehicle mines. The U.S. armed forces would deploy nonpersistent mines only, because these devices can be set to deactivate or self-destruct mere hours after the military requirement for them ends.“
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/September/20060922153943adynned0.8831903.html
So in fact the US does plan to continue using mines, just easily detectable ones (ie metal detector) and they must be non-persistant.
Of course this ban was in 2004, and Tora Bora was 2001.
This is what happened.
This is Dalton Fury (bad make-up, but it works).
The unit is pissed, but not the operators.
Look up Gator Mines, they would have worked.
The unit is just that, a unit. Families can come on the compound and eat on Fridays, watch your language though.